To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

PVC Conduit above Grade??

dirtrunner0519

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
399
Does conduit above grade have to be EMT. I am going to pour my patio and cannot seem to find if it needs to transition from PVC to EMT. It will be a few dulpex outlets 110V @ 20Amps with a GFCI. Location is Los Angeles
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Shiftless

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
14,565
Location
East Bay SFO
I don’t like pvc conduit because it sags. But EMT will rust if not kept painted.
For a short vertical run in my front yard, I used intermediate conduit wrapped in 40 mil tape.
 
Last edited:

tonyprovo723

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
150
Probably a question that needs a response from someone local as this varies by local code. Western suburbs of Chicago, metal pipe above and below ground. An hour west of Chicago and PVC is fine.

The comment of grey PVC, is incomplete. I'm not a plastics guy, but grey pvc is for electric and white is for plumbing in the general scheme of things.

Have you talked with the local inspector? Granted some want to show their authority and will hang you any chance they get. Other inspectors simply want you to do what is safe.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,045
Location
Gotham City
How about aluminum ridgid ?
Spark used that on my job recently and I was quite happy and surprise....here I was thinking I would need to be maintaining paint on EMT...
 
OP
D

dirtrunner0519

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
399
I have talked with the inspector, and he said PVC is fine but then I got a different inspector and he said I need emt/rigid.
 

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
I have talked with the inspector, and he said PVC is fine but then I got a different inspector and he said I need emt/rigid.

Typical.

Call the jurisdiction and ask for the Head Inspector. Follow his instruction and write his name down. Then if anybody questions what you are doing... tell them who you talked to.
 

dogdog

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Messages
12,711
I don’t like pvc conduit because it sags. But EMT will rust if not kept painted.
For a short vertical run in my front yard, I used intermediate conduit wrapped in 40 mil tape.

I have used the GRC/RMC for outside and buried under ground past 3 years+ not even a rust spot (well I can't see underground )... but it's 3x more than EMT though cost wise..
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Crazyjake8493

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
3,977
Location
Upstate NY
There is nothing prohibiting PVC above ground, though if subject to damage it is supposed to be sch 80. I like to use PVC outdoors and EMT indoors.
 

electroman187

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
147
Location
NH
Another problem with PVC used above ground outdoors is its high thermal coefficient of expansion. If the calculated variation is greater than 1/4" for a length, then an expansion joint must be used. In NH with a seasonal temperature swing of more than 100`F, that's less than 10'.
 

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Another problem with PVC used above ground outdoors is its high thermal coefficient of expansion. If the calculated variation is greater than 1/4" for a length, then an expansion joint must be used. In NH with a seasonal temperature swing of more than 100`F, that's less than 10'.
Well if you get enough frost in the ground anything can move including emt.;)
But I always use expansion joints on pvc coming out of ground outdoors.
Cheap insurance.
 

electroman187

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
147
Location
NH
Well if you get enough frost in the ground anything can move including emt.;)
But I always use expansion joints on pvc coming out of ground outdoors.
Cheap insurance.
Yup, I agree with that. But we are talking about 2 different things. You're talking about frost heaves causing a shift in conduits emerging from underground. I am talking about the change in length of a conduit due to thermal variation.

For instance, anywhere in the US where a 20' PVC conduit length is outdoors and above grade, there should be an expansion joint along with the proper PVC supports that allow the conduit to slide within it. However, the same steel or aluminum conduit run would not require the expansion joint. I see these expansion joints missing all the time and as a result, I see a lot of ugly sagging runs, couplings pulled apart (shrinkage) and broken out junction boxes (expansion).

In fact, even when burying PVC care must be taken. If the air temperature is significantly hotter or colder than the ground temperature, then there can be problems that occur once buried. If it's very hot out and conduit has been laying in the sun, it is fully expanded. Once glued together and buried, it cools and shrinks and the couplings can pull apart if they are long runs.
 

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Yup, I agree with that. But we are talking about 2 different things. You're talking about frost heaves causing a shift in conduits emerging from underground. I am talking about the change in length of a conduit due to thermal variation.

For instance, anywhere in the US where a 20' PVC conduit length is outdoors and above grade, there should be an expansion joint along with the proper PVC supports that allow the conduit to slide within it. However, the same steel or aluminum conduit run would not require the expansion joint. I see these expansion joints missing all the time and as a result, I see a lot of ugly sagging runs, couplings pulled apart (shrinkage) and broken out junction boxes (expansion).

In fact, even when burying PVC care must be taken. If the air temperature is significantly hotter or colder than the ground temperature, then there can be problems that occur once buried. If it's very hot out and conduit has been laying in the sun, it is fully expanded. Once glued together and buried, it cools and shrinks and the couplings can pull apart if they are long runs.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I normally don't run pvc horizontally outdoors,just because of all the extra strapping required to keel it from sagging.
 
Last edited:

NUTTSGT

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
51,081
Location
Northern Central Ohio
While you guys are talking expansion joints for the conduit and the OP is in Los Angeles.

Since Southern Cal has some earthquake issues and has building requirements to fit those shaking tremors, do they require expansion joints for conduits as a regular item ?

Just curious here ?
 

alfredeneuman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
4,590
Location
Fullerton, CA
The Code in So Ca is the same as that for the rest of the USA, without addressing any seismic issues.

(The California Electrical Code is taken verbatim from the NEC, the only difference being that the California Energy Code is incorporated into it.)
 
OP
D

dirtrunner0519

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
399
I thought i posted I went with PVC stub ups. This is only for our patio area (110V) and to feed and LV lighting for landscaping.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom