Question about mini splits?

[Ran58]

I am just finishing up drying in my new shop and I have walled off one end to have a kitchen and another room for a craft room for my wife. These two rooms are about 17 by 13 ft and 10 by 13 ft respectively.

The shop will not be air conditioned or heated but I thought about a mini split for the kitchen and craft room. I don’t know anything about them.
Do they require 220 service? Are they mounted outside or inside the room? Would I need a mini split for each room? Do they require ductwork? How much do they cost? Do I need an Heat and Air company to install the system?

Thanks for any info?

 

[jack stand]

I think that they all are 220 on a little 20a 30a breaker. You'll have the outside unit and a wall unit in each space.
Installation.... I paid to have mine done and it extended to manufacture warranty.
I've observed that prices can vary widely among contractors and regionally. They have been very popular here and are a 1 day job normally. This is contrary to "normal" HVAC work and unfamiliar to a lot of contractors. This will lead to higher pricing for labor mostly because of the unfamiliarity. I understand that as a contractor, find a company that's done a lot of them.
On the other hand my cousin, an electrical contractor just installed a Pioneer unit in a rental of his and so far, so good. It's only been about a month, but he's in for about $1500 total.
I have 2 inside units LG equipment and iirc it was $7500 but the state had a $1200 energy efficiency rebate but an approved contractor/dealer was required.

 

[Cairo94507]

I bought a mini-split from Home Depot for my 3+ car garage during our garage remodel. We ran the lines inside the wall and had the compressor outside. It was a very clean install like one sees in a typical residential install. Worked great for heating and cooling. Quiet too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think that they all are 220 on a little 20a 30a breaker.

There are some very small units that are 120V, but typically, they are 240V.

If these are separate rooms you are trying to condition, you will need 2 interior air handlers. The typical Installation is high on a wall, but there are other options, depending on the manufacturer, including low wall mount and "in ceiling" cassette. Besides power and the 2 A/C refrigerant lines, they all require a condensate drain.

Even though you will need 2 interior air handlers, some manufacturers offer outside compressor units that can drive more than 1 air handler.

 

[CraigStu]

The big advantage to me of a mini-split is that there is no ducting. There is an inside and outside unit and all you need is a 2-3 inch hole in the wall to pass copper tube and wire through. Some units can have one outside and two inside units. The inside unit is usually hung near the top of the wall so the cold air drops down into the room. Depending on how separate the kitchen and craft rooms are you may need two indoor units. OTOH, I could make a strong case for them being all one room w/ kitchen somewhat separated off by a countertop. Do a two level countertop w/ stove top on one side and a 10 inch taller counter w/ a couple of tall chairs to sit at for lunch. For DIY some of the units come pre-charged w/ freon and use quick no leak connects so you just plug them together like an air hose.

 

[beemerphile]

I think that they all are 220 on a little 20a 30a breaker. You'll have the outside unit and a wall unit in each space.
Installation.... I paid to have mine done and it extended to manufacture warranty.
I've observed that prices can vary widely among contractors and regionally. They have been very popular here and are a 1 day job normally. This is contrary to "normal" HVAC work and unfamiliar to a lot of contractors. This will lead to higher pricing for labor mostly because of the unfamiliarity. I understand that as a contractor, find a company that's done a lot of them.
On the other hand my cousin, an electrical contractor just installed a Pioneer unit in a rental of his and so far, so good. It's only been about a month, but he's in for about $1500 total.
I have 2 inside units LG equipment and iirc it was $7500 but the state had a $1200 energy efficiency rebate but an approved contractor/dealer was required.

I bought a couple of Pioneer 12K units that were 120 volt.

 

[NYBODYMAN]

Following.

 

[jack stand]

I bought a couple of Pioneer 12K units that were 120 volt.

I was too lazy to go out to the shop to check mine. But I've got 22k btu with 2 heads.

 

[gerlbaum]

I youtubed this once and the guy I saw said they already came charged with refrigerant too. It's that accurate?

 

[manwithtools]

I youtubed this once and the guy I saw said they already came charged with refrigerant too. It's that accurate?

Some do have pre-charged line sets.

 

[gastgarage]

I just had a Mitsubishi 12k single-head unit installed in my shop--it took a 220v 15A breaker and was a pretty easy install for the 2 guys given that the shop isn't insulated or sheetrocked yet. Their lines were not pre-charged; my sense is that's more reserved for the DIY units like MrCool. I had a LG multi-head unit in my old shop and they worked fairly well but I wanted to go with Mitsubishi as it has a great reputation. Thought about going the DIY route but wanted a better warranty.

 

[racecougar]

I youtubed this once and the guy I saw said they already came charged with refrigerant too. It's that accurate?

The DIY units will have evacuated lines and a charged outdoor unit. The vast majority have lines that require pulling a vacuum to evacuate, but the outdoor units are typically charged for up to 25' line sets.

 

[PoorUB]

I am just finishing up drying in my new shop and I have walled off one end to have a kitchen and another room for a craft room for my wife. These two rooms are about 17 by 13 ft and 10 by 13 ft respectively.

The shop will not be air conditioned or heated but I thought about a mini split for the kitchen and craft room. I don’t know anything about them.
Do they require 220 service? Are they mounted outside or inside the room? Would I need a mini split for each room? Do they require ductwork? How much do they cost? Do I need an Heat and Air company to install the system?

Thanks for any info?

Keep in mind with such a small space the smallest mini split will cool both rooms just fine.

I would consider a small ducted unit, like this,

https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/co...lit-air-conditioner-heat-pump-system-full-set

if you have room to "hide" the indoor unit in the ceiling. Run one supply and one return duct to each room.

 

[walta]

The DIY units will have evacuated lines and a charged outdoor unit. The vast majority have lines that require pulling a vacuum to evacuate, but the outdoor units are typically charged for up to 25' line sets.

Some of the MR COOL brand Minis are made with DIY friendly connectors on the refrigeration lines.

You simply screw them together no need to purge or evacuate the only down side is that you cant shorten the line set and must coil up the excess. They claim the line sets are per charged buy when I installed one it sounded more like the line set was shipped under vacuum to me.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/MRCOOL-...nstall-Kit-230-Volt-DIY18-HP-230B25/311900321



Walta

 

[Dig Doug]

I was thinking about add this to my garage… already have a 5 Ton big system but no heat cool only

 

[mogandave]

Mount the wall units high, but not too high, cooling the area above your head is a waste.

 

[onemore]

I purchased (1) zone diy kit from Alpine air. Blue ridge is name of the unit. Easy install, been 3 years in a family room, no issues at all.

2 years ago I purchased a (2) zone Blue ridge system, i has to flare the copper lines, and vacuum lines, but was still a fairly easy install. I crossed a wire, had to call customer service at Alpine… and the were Excellent!

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

I was too lazy to go out to the shop to check mine. But I've got 22k btu with 2 heads.

I'll save you the trip outside.
It will be a 240 volt.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

To the OP, if you want to have one indoor unit doing 2 rooms, you could do what this guy did.

 

[racecougar]

Some of the MR COOL brand Minis are made with DIY friendly connectors on the refrigeration lines.

You simply screw them together no need to purge or evacuate the only down side is that you cant shorten the line set and must coil up the excess. They claim the line sets are per charged buy when I installed one it sounded more like the line set was shipped under vacuum to me.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/MRCOOL-...nstall-Kit-230-Volt-DIY18-HP-230B25/311900321



Walta

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to.

 

[rshadd]

I'm having a new ductless mini-split installed in my 30x40' garage soon. My primary goal is heat, with AC being a bonus.

I'm currently heating my garage with a 300,000 forced-air kerosene heater and a smaller stand-along kerosene heater. My garage was built in 2003 and is well insulated. The walls and ceiling are finished and it rarely gets below 40°F. I only heat the garage if I know I going to be out there for a while. The forced-air heater will get the space to a comfortable temperature in about 15 minutes, the I turn that one off and only use the smaller unit to maintain the temperature.

While this works, there are many drawbacks. First, the noise drives me nuts, second, I have to crack the door for a fresh air vent which brings in COLD air. Kerosene prices are crazy and adds a lot of moisture to the air which promotes rust in the garage.

I'm going with a 36k Mitsubishi hyper-heat dual-zone unit and a pair of 18k indoor units on either side of the 18' garage door. Installation is expected to be 1-day. The outdoor unit requires 230v. The indoor units require a small condensation pump for the cooling in the summer. Two indoor units will allow one unit to take care of my tool room / work bench area, while the other unit will service the vehicle storage area.

I've had several Mitsubishi "Diamond" installers come out and their price was around $12,000 (Pennsylvania) for everything. (lines, break-out box, electrical, permits, conduit, pad, etc)

The cost of these units have have increased lately due to supply-line issues and higher demand. From my research, Mitshubishi is the brand to have.

 

[justinjoyal]

I'm going with a 36k Mitsubishi hyper-heat dual-zone unit and a pair of 18k indoor units on either side of the 18' garage door. Installation is expected to be 1-day. The outdoor unit requires 230v. The indoor units require a small condensation pump for the cooling in the summer. Two indoor units will allow one unit to take care of my tool room / work bench area, while the other unit will service the vehicle storage area.

I've had several Mitsubishi "Diamond" installers come out and their price was around $12,000 (Pennsylvania) for everything. (lines, break-out box, electrical, permits, conduit, pad, etc)

The cost of these units have have increased lately due to supply-line issues and higher demand. From my research, Mitshubishi is the brand to have.

That's totally crazy... I would never even think of charging my customers that much and let alone pay that much !

They're called "Diamond installers" because they give you an actual diamond when the install is complete to make up for their rip-off of a price ?

 

[tdkkart]

That's totally crazy... I would never even think of charging my customers that much and let alone pay that much !

They're called "Diamond installers" because they give you an actual diamond when the install is complete to make up for their rip-off of a price ?

A local HVAC company and the local power company sponsors a home improvement type show locally. They did segment with the HVAC company about heating/cooling your garage/workshop space. They suggested, hanging heaters, a forced air heating/cooling system, or a mini split. All their solutions price quotes were in the $5-$12,000 range, with the minisplit being $7-9000.

I spent $2500 total to DIY two 24K Pioneer units, one in my 1200sq shop, and another in a portion of our house.

Both work excellent.

 

[ipgenie]

A local company gave me a bid for $5000 to install one in our house. That's with me doing the electrical and having the holes already drilled and ready to run the line set.
Same company bid $12000 for a dual head unit in my shop.

I installed two separate units myself , 18k 240v Pioneer and 9k 120v Senville, in my house for $1400 before the rebate from the electric company. I'll do it myself in the shop when I'm ready. I shouldn't have much over $5000 into all five units when I'm done, including line covers, mounts and everything.

There is a federal tax credit available too. I'll find out how exactly that works when I do my taxes this year.

 

[drmarkr]

$12,000 is nuts...

My 18k unit in the apartment in my shop was $3000 installed. I plumbed most of the condensate line myself. I needed some additional line/wire to get to the outside and then down to the unit, which added about $200 to that price.

It works absolutely awesome. The calculated size was about 15k, but I got a good price on the 18, so I went ahead and upsized. This is Arizona, and this is an upstairs space in a (pretty well) insulated steel building, so we weren't super confident in the calculations anyways.

If I ever build another house, which is very unlikely at 65, I will use these for heating/cooling. Without a doubt.

 

[American Locomotive]

A local company gave me a bid for $5000 to install one in our house. That's with me doing the electrical and having the holes already drilled and ready to run the line set.
Same company bid $12000 for a dual head unit in my shop.

Sounds about right. Most of the local companies around here seem to be about $5k installed for any single-head mini split. They basically charge full split system change out labor, even though it takes them all of 3 hours of work with two guys.

All a huge racket.

 

[428PI]

There is a federal tax credit available too. I'll find out how exactly that works when I do my taxes this year.

Really? For an installed unit last year? I got I believe a 450 dollar credit from my local electric company for installing a 27k 2 head unit last year.

 

[ipgenie]

Federal HVAC Tax credit and Federal Energy Efficient Tax Credit - where to file it?

I installed a ductless mini-split heat pump/AC unit in 2021. It says I am eligible for a Federal HVAC tax credit and a Federal Energy Efficient Tax Credit. https://powersaveac.com/blog/post/do-mini-splits-qualify-for-tax-credit...

ttlc.intuit.com

 

[428PI]

I looked into it a bit and if I would have got a unit that was energy star rated I could have gotten a 300 dollar credit for installing it last year. Mine wasn't energy star but actually had higher efficiency and more output but cost slightly more. Could have something to do with the lower temperature performance and mine has a heating element to defrost the drain.

 

[ALinCarolina]

I just finished installing a 3 zone system today. 27K BTU compressor unit with a one 12K and two 9K inside units. Around $2400 from Lowes. There are basically two types of install. One is the completely DIY with pre-charged line sets and the other is a kit with pre-charged compressor that you release after installing the line sets. The latter is what I got. You will have to nitrogen pressure test and evacuate the lines with vacuum pump. This method means you don't have to coil up excess line sets, etc. If you don't have the equipment to do the lines then you could install the hardware and have a pro come finish it.

 

[racecougar]

Federal HVAC Tax credit and Federal Energy Efficient Tax Credit - where to file it?

I installed a ductless mini-split heat pump/AC unit in 2021. It says I am eligible for a Federal HVAC tax credit and a Federal Energy Efficient Tax Credit. https://powersaveac.com/blog/post/do-mini-splits-qualify-for-tax-credit...

ttlc.intuit.com

What if we buy a mini split system in 2023? Is there still a tax credit? Must it be an Energy Star rated mini split?

 

[428PI]

What if we buy a mini split system in 2023? Is there still a tax credit? Must it be an Energy Star rated mini split?

I installed a Pioneer mini split. If you go to their website it will give you the tax credit info for federal and local.

 

[racecougar]

I installed a Pioneer mini split. If you go to their website it will give you the tax credit info for federal and local.

Thanks. Per this link, it looks like you can claim 30% of the project cost up to $2k for mini split installs that are Energy Star certified that are at least 16 SEER / 12 EER / 9 HPSF. I'll be sure to factor that into my decision on which model(s) to buy this year.

Air Source Heat Pumps Tax Credit

www.energystar.gov

Here's a table I'm compiling with specs of currently available 12K and 24K systems:

 

[CaptainBraap]

You can't run two "separate" rooms off one unit because there are no ducts. I bought a Della brand on Amazon, pre-charged for $800 and I'm in Houston and it keeps my 575 sq ft garage with 11' ceilings nice and cool in summer and ran the heat when it was 22 degrees and it warmed it up nicely. Mine is 110 power on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. I mounted it all, ran all electric, etc. then had an HVAC tech connect, checks lines, verify charge, etc. All in I spent under $1,300 and it's all to code.

 

[Shovelhead]

You get a tax credit for installing a mini split in a Shop/ garage?

A house I can see, but a garage?

 

[pcmeiners]

"A house I can see, but a garage?"

It is not a garage, it is a storage area.

 

[aqr81]

I put (2) 2 ton Dakin mini splits in the 1500 sq ft shop I built at my sons house. Yes they are on 220/240. The 2 units sounds like an overkill but that option was actually cheaper than going with another option that was smaller. They are virtually silent, very efficient and quickly heat and cool the shop space. They are very economical to run. I insulated the heck out of it so once at temperature it holds very well. I'm in the Central Valley Ca so both heat and colding were my concerns and I'm very pleased with these Dakin units performance. Line sets are run to the back of shop through trusses and down and out the back wall where mechanicals are installed. If you use the bottom link on my signature line it will take you to the build with all the pics etc.

 

[PoorUB]

I put (2) 2 ton Dakin mini splits in the 1500 sq ft shop I built at my sons house. Yes they are on 220/240. The 2 units sounds like an overkill but that option was actually cheaper than going with another option that was smaller.

I bet one maintains the temps easily. It might not cool it down if you start with a warm shop in 90 degree weather.

 

[stubbsrodandcustom]

I'm running a 18k btu Boreal in my garage, quiet and works great. Only thing I will urge you to do is to get a good line set to hook up etc and do a very good evac job on pulling the vacuum. My unit was 2300 with an upgraded line set with the pad to place unit on. They offer dual head units that will run on one condenser outside. Worth looking into for multiple rooms. Clean and simple and works great. My laptop fan is louder than the unit most of the time.

 

[rockwind1]

i discovered, thru personal experience,, that alot of people who put in these mini splits, don't do it exactly right (imo) because they don't pressure test with nitrogen. they just do a vacuum test and think that is good enough. i don't think it is. pressure testing with nitrogen is going to do a far, far better job of detecting any leaks before letting your precious freon run thru the newly hooked up line sets. the thing is ,, many times, the lines have to to be cut and reflared and even if they don't, the factory flares might be sub par or you may not tighten down the flare connection enough. some flaring tools better at this than others.

just my opinion,, pressure test with nitrogen should be part of your final check list. if you have never done one,, you can install the entire thing but have a good hvac guy come over to pressure test your line set before opening those valves.