Question about sockets

[Sbl777]

I am new to this forum. Just a simple Diyer now. I used to work as a contractor's helper, but due to osteoarthritis, I had to quit. I still do some woodworking at home.
I have a one car garage which is divided in two, one part is my art studio and the other is my small workshop. As you can imagine, storage space for tools is limited. I have a Craftsman chest where I keep my sockets, all my power tools and batteries. So space is also limited.
Both my vehicles are Japanese, 2015 Tacoma and 2008 Rav4. The latter may be replaced soon because of the years and miles it already has, but it will probably be for another Japanese car. So every time I buy a set of 1/2 or 3/8 sockets, deep, semi-deep, shallow, swivel, etc, I end up keeping the same sizes 8, 10, 12, 12, 14, 17, 17, 19, 21, 22, 24, and up. I usually also keep some 11, 13 and 15 for aftermarket parts. So my question is for people who have a certain brand of vehicles, not so much for professional mechanics who work on all kinds of cars every day, what do you do with all the sockets you have left over? In my case I have a lot of 11, 13, 15, 15, 16, 18, 20, 23, etc.

 

[mike93lx]

Why do you keep buying sets? Just buy the sockets you need. The rest either sit in the drawer, or you sell/give them away

 

[Dave455]

The short answer is - keep them!

Even if you don’t need them for your current vehicles, you may change to something different, or you might need the tools for other tasks!

With regard to the sizes you mention -

11 - is the DIN (German) standard size for a 7mm bolt. They’re not common, but they’re out there.

13 - is the DIN and ISO (International) standard size for an 8mm bolt. 10 and 13 are probably the most common sizes worldwide. You will find this size on things like lag screws too.

15 - is an ANSI (American) standard size. It’s being replaced by 16, but I believe they are common in the U.S.

16 and 18 are ISO standard sizes replacing 17 and 19, you will find them more and more, but not on Japanese vehicles (yet).

20 - is seldom used. Most European sets never include it.

23 - is an older French size.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have moved all of my 1/2" drive sockets, extensions, swivels, etc, etc the the back of the bottom drawer. The only thing I ever use is the lug nut flip lug nut sockets, torque wrench and extra long HF breaker bar. Yes, I have full sets ! SAE and Metric, shallow and deep, impact shallow and deep.

For "sanity", all metric wrenches have a piece of black electrical tape on the handle.

My 1/4" sockets are in a small separate box. The 10mm socket have a piece of yellow tape wrapped around it. I have color code some others also.

 

[Sbl777]

Why do you keep buying sets? Just buy the sockets you need. The rest either sit in the drawer, or you sell/give them away

I have bought almost all the sets at special prices and buying sockets separately is not always a good deal. I will never understand why!

 

[Sbl777]

The short answer is - keep them!

Even if you don’t need them for your current vehicles, you may change to something different, or you might need the tools for other tasks!

With regard to the sizes you mention -

11 - is the DIN (German) standard size for a 7mm bolt. They’re not common, but they’re out there.

13 - is the DIN and ISO (International) standard size for an 8mm bolt. 10 and 13 are probably the most common sizes worldwide. You will find this size on things like lag screws too.

15 - is an ANSI (American) standard size. It’s being replaced by 16, but I believe they are common in the U.S.

16 and 18 are ISO standard sizes replacing 17 and 19, you will find them more and more, but not on Japanese vehicles (yet).

20 - is seldom used. Most European sets never include it.

23 - is an older French size.

Awesome! Great info there. Thanks a lot!

 

[mike93lx]

I have bought almost all the sets at special prices and buying sockets separately is not always a good deal. I will never understand why!

Is it still a good deal if you end up with a lot of unnecessary stuff?

 

[Old Man Roger]

Is it still a good deal if you end up with a lot of unnecessary stuff?

Unnecessary tools? Never heard of such a thing.lol

 

[Sbl777]

Is it still a good deal if you end up with a lot of unnecessary stuff?

I don't know! You tell me if the price of $43 seems like a good deal to you for only 6 sockets or the other price for the complete SAE and METRIC deep and shallow set, with extensions and a ratchet.

 

[WAID]

I'm not quite in the same position as you since a Ford hangs out with my two Toyotas(amongst other small equipment) but even if just the toyotas, I've had replacement parts come with different sizes. Like an axlenut being 30mm instead of 32mm or really annoying a formerly 14mm headed bolt being a 15mm head. That msy have been my fault for what I could source locally at the time.

Forgot to add, the vast majority stay in my box, but I do have a plastic tote for any excess overflow tools that aren't likely to be used soon including the ones I trimmed out of my truck tool bag.

 

[bwringer]

Much the same here; I have very limited space, and everything I work on is Asian. The inch **** and 15, 16, 18mm, etc. is rarely needed unless there's a visitor to the garage, or some aftermarket part is ignoring the standards.

I simply keep the 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, etc. stuff in my primary tool cart and the rest is dumped into secondary storage. In my case, there's another toolbox sort of in the back, and I have one drawer for inch **** and another for the mostly extraneous metric stuff. It doesn't need to be super organized because it's so rarely needed. You could use a cardboard box, a plastic bin, whatever. The sockets are on cheap rails from HF, not the locking Ernst rails I use for the good stuff. You get the idea.

This culling makes every job go soooooooooooo much faster and easier. When I first did this, it was really surprising how much time I was wasting by constantly picking up a 13mm when I needed a 12mm, etc. and how much space was being taken up by tools that had never been used.

And don't even get me started on the deceptiveness and utter uselessness of 11mm; it's amazing how many of these damn things had accumulated over the years; they're never used, so they never get lost or damaged like 10mm.

A few years back, I also trashed or donated a lot of the cheapo tools that were all I could afford in college. That freed up a surprising amount of space.

Lastly, I'm pretty vigilant about removing worn tools and the associated frustrations from my life. Screwdrivers, files, drill bits, even many kinds of pliers, etc. are consumables, not heirlooms, and they get chucked the second they start to slip or show wear. I don't donate them because why pass that problem on to some other poor schlub? They already have plenty of busted old tools at Habitat ReStore. There's just no point in damaging fasteners or your work. And no, I don't save the handles or grind them into awls or whatever unless I have some immediate need.


To give one example, I bought a set of five of those groovy long flex ratcheting "Mountain" wrenches a while back. Very, very handy for reaching the un-reachable.

I didn't really enjoy buying two wrench sizes I didn't need, but it was much cheaper than buying just the three individual wrenches I did need, and the manufacturer cleverly organized the set so it could be easily separated.

So the 8x10, 12x14, and 17x19 wrenches are in my main working box, and the 13x15 and 16x18 are in the storage drawer in the back (they skipped 9 and 11). If they had organized the set in strict ascending order (8x10, 12x13, 14x15, 16x17, 18x19), then I would have had to clutter up my main box with all five to have the sizes I needed on hand.

 

[mike93lx]

I don't know! You tell me if the price of $43 seems like a good deal to you for only 6 sockets or the other price for the complete SAE and METRIC deep and shallow set, with extensions and a ratchet.

Spending an extra $50 to get stuff you don't need just to lower the per unit cost doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

Sounds like justifying buying stuff you don't need just because it is on sale

 

[Sbl777]

I'm not quite in the same position as you since a Ford hangs out with my two Toyotas(amongst other small equipment) but even if just the toyotas, I've had replacement parts come with different sizes. Like an axlenut being 30mm instead of 32mm or really annoying a formerly 14mm headed bolt being a 15mm head. That msy have been my fault for what I could source locally at the time.

Forgot to add, the vast majority stay in my box, but I do have a plastic tote for any excess overflow tools that aren't likely to be used soon including the ones I trimmed out of my truck tool bag.

The other days I had to replace some parts of the rear suspension of the rav4 and since my wife brought it from NJ it is a little rusty underneath. One of the nuts was in terrible condition. So I had to cut the nut off with the grinder because there was no way to get it off. It was almost round. I bought the part from Autozone and the new nut and bolt were 15mm

 

[VolvoRyan]

I guess one thing you could do would be to buy socket sets manufactured in Japan (Ko-Ken?) for Japanese cars, Germany for German cars, etc. Those sets seem to conform with the respective national industrial standards.

Personally, I use all the sizes. Volvo has classically been a mishmash of everything. German electrics and fuel injection, Japanese transmissions, etc, etc.

I need a no-skip up to 19mm, and then I buy piecemeal above that. Sizes like 20, 23, 25mm, ect, don't really exist in the wild.

-Ryan

 

[Sbl777]

Much the same here; I have very limited space, and everything I work on is Asian. The inch **** and 15, 16, 18mm, etc. is rarely needed unless there's a visitor to the garage, or some aftermarket part is ignoring the standards.

I simply keep the 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, etc. stuff in my primary tool cart and the rest is dumped into secondary storage. In my case, there's another toolbox sort of in the back, and I have one drawer for inch **** and another for the mostly extraneous metric stuff. It doesn't need to be super organized because it's so rarely needed. You could use a cardboard box, a plastic bin, whatever. The sockets are on cheap rails from HF, not the locking Ernst rails I use for the good stuff. You get the idea.

This culling makes every job go soooooooooooo much faster and easier. When I first did this, it was really surprising how much time I was wasting by constantly picking up a 13mm when I needed a 12mm, etc. and how much space was being taken up by tools that had never been used.

And don't even get me started on the deceptiveness and utter uselessness of 11mm; it's amazing how many of these damn things had accumulated over the years; they're never used, so they never get lost or damaged like 10mm.

A few years back, I also trashed or donated a lot of the cheapo tools that were all I could afford in college. That freed up a surprising amount of space.

Lastly, I'm pretty vigilant about removing worn tools and the associated frustrations from my life. Screwdrivers, bits, even many kinds of pliers, etc. are consumables, not heirlooms, and they get chucked the second they start to slip or show wear. I don't donate them because why pass that problem on to some other poor schlub? They already have plenty of busted old tools at Habitat ReStore. There's just no point in damaging fasteners or your work. And no, I don't save the handles or grind them into awls or whatever unless I have some immediate need.

Yeah, that's a pain in the ***! I have a set of Grey Pneumatic duo sockets in 3/8 that I keep with all the sizes for cases like that. But then the buildup starts with the other sets. For example, 90% of the time I almost always use 1/2 from 17mm up, but all the sets start at 8mm or 10mm I have been doing that for over 25 years on almost every vehicle I have repaired. Except for very special cases. Besides, I'm more of an impact wrench guy.

 

[Sbl777]

I guess one thing you could do would be to buy socket sets manufactured in Japan (Ko-Ken?) for Japanese cars, Germany for German cars, etc. Those sets seem to conform with the respective national industrial standards.

Personally, I use all the sizes. Volvo has classically been a mishmash of everything. German electrics and fuel injection, Japanese transmissions, etc, etc.

I need a no-skip up to 19mm, and then I buy piecemeal above that. Sizes like 20, 23, 25mm, ect, don't really exist in the wild.

-Ryan

If I could start over I would do that! And maybe buy singles for the non-JIS sizes to cover non-original parts or aftermarket parts.

 

[bwringer]

... For example, 90% of the time I almost always use 1/2 from 17mm up, but all the sets start at 8mm or 10mm

Agreed. I've never quite understood what scenario might feasibly call for a 1/2" impact on an 8 or 10mm fastener. I mean, you can easily twist these right off by hand.

 

[Hohn]

16 and 18 are ISO standard sizes replacing 17 and 19, you will find them more and more, but not on Japanese vehicles (yet).

My 2005 Honda odyssey has 18mm all over it.

To my chagrin, my Wright wrench set skipped 16 and 18mm and I figured no big deal because all the M12/M14s I use at work have odd-mm size heads: 13mm on M10, 15mm on M12, etc.

In horror I learn that Honda has "non standard" head sizes relative to what I was used to. Which means I had to buy the 16mm and 18mm Wrightgrips to complete my set. Not just to satisfy my OCD, I actually needed them.


EDIT to add: The mystery of why my expected hex sizes were all "wrong" is explained by the fact that we always use FLANGE HEAD capscrews at work. Thus, the M10 flange head gets a 13mm head where the standard M10 gets 16mm or 17mm. A flange head M12 gets a 15mm head, but it's 18mm or 19mm on a ISO or DIN (respectively). Flange head M14 are 18mm vs 21 or 22 for ISO/DIN.


Mystery solved, but now I need to recalibrate my own expectations. I'm so used to always using an odd-numbered MM socket once above 10mm that my brain hurts trying to consider a 16mm or 18mm.

 

[WAID]

The other days I had to replace some parts of the rear suspension of the rav4 and since my wife brought it from NJ it is a little rusty underneath. One of the nuts was in terrible condition. So I had to cut the nut off with the grinder because there was no way to get it off. It was almost round. I bought the part from Autozone and the new nut and bolt were 15mm

Its more than a little annoying. Especially in the case of that axle nut, I had to special order a 32mm 12 point deep socket to get the old nut off. I've made it a point just now to order a handful of JIS fasteners to have on hand for a couple of those common sizes. It looks like belmetric.com might be my place for stuff cheaper than the stealership. I'm happy to keep the '95 Corolla going as long as it wants to, but it's not worth spending the big bucks on.

 

[Sbl777]

Agreed. I've never quite understood what scenario might feasibly call for a 1/2" impact on an 8 or 10mm fastener. I mean, you can easily twist these right off by hand.

But then, it's hard to just throw them away. It's like a psychological thing, so they all end up in storage and taking up space for more useful things.

 

[Sbl777]

My 2005 Honda odyssey has 18mm all over it.

To my chagrin, my Wright wrench set skipped 16 and 18mm and I figured no big deal because all the M12/M14s I use at work have odd-mm size heads: 13mm on M10, 15mm on M12, etc.

In horror I learn that Honda has "non standard" head sizes relative to what I was used to. Which means I had to buy the 16mm and 18mm Wrightgrips to complete my set. Not just to satisfy my OCD, I actually needed them.

That's insane!

 

[CGarage]

You need to keep them!

It’s a set for a reason!

You do not have a crystal ball to tell you how long you will live or when you will buy your next vehicle.

The next vehicle may have a different size fastener on it that you will have to address that you currently are not using.

In short- Keep your sets together and intact!

 

[Hohn]

If I were giving advice to a young wrench, I'd say buy full sets of Metric and individuals of SAE. With global supply chains, metric has largely replaced SAE in common use and very few things produced today are entirely Imperial.

I've moved my SAE wrenches and sockets to an "archive" drawer about 5 years ago after realizing I didn't use them anymore, and have yet to find a case where I needed to break them out.

Plus, I find metric just more intuitive now. It's much easier for me to think in terms of shoe sizes rather than fractions. This is the main advantage of a smaller base unit (mm vs inch).

 

[RTM]

I dunno about that logic. I have three Asian designed cars (two are older versions of yours), 2 are US built, but don’t need to work on them much. It’s all the other stuff around the house and property that I need all the tools for. Even the neighbor occasionally comes over to borrow tools.

It’s easier to keep them together than shove the low use ones off to purgatory.

 

[Boogerman]

My thoughts: why you bought multiple sets and have several? Not to **** on GJ vibe, but what you describe as needs, have about 5 times too many tools shown your picture. Or, have really not described needs accurately.

I'd buy one good quality set, (or sort out assortment you have), keep all set for not just cars but also other things around house. Then get rid of all multiple extra sets.

Or, if you really into all tools you have shown, just live with the extra socket sizes. If you have that much excess already, what's a few different socket sizes in with all the rest?

 

[bwringer]

My 2005 Honda odyssey has 18mm all over it.

Yikes. It's been an age since I worked on a Honda motorcycle, and two ages since I worked on a Honda car, and I didn't know this.

However, I do know they've had the habit since the '60s of using oddball fasteners. Vintage Honda motorcycles are littered with nonstandard **** like M6x32mm. I mean, would it have killed them to make the part to use a standard 30 or 35mm fastener?

 

[toddmorr]

I guess the 2005 Odyssey has 18mm because it was USA built????

That would be annoying

 

[bwringer]

I guess the 2005 Odyssey has 18mm because it was USA built????

That would be annoying

All the Toyotas and Hyundais I've worked on were US-built, and they use the JIS standards. A car factory doesn't have to take what's on the shelf at the local hardware store.

For whatever reason, Honda's engineers decided these fasteners needed 18mm heads. As I said, Honda has always used a lot of bespoke fasteners for some reason.

 

[Hohn]

I guess the 2005 Odyssey has 18mm because it was USA built????

That would be annoying

could be. In silent protest to Metric, when forced to do metric, we apparently must do it wrong.

 

[Hohn]

All the Toyotas and Hyundais I've worked on were US-built, and they use the JIS standards.

My epiphany of the year was when I got some JIS screwdrivers and used them instead on my Honda. I was gobsmacked how a barely visible difference can have such a huge effect on performance.

Try this with a #3 Phillips:



Anyway, it does appear that the Honda is using ISO bolt heads (18mm) vs JIS (19mm)
Here's the reference I found most useful so far for all these metric standards:
https://www.earnestmachine.com/site...uct/assets/documents/Industrial-Standards.pdf

 

[Dave455]

My epiphany of the year was when I got some JIS screwdrivers and used them instead on my Honda. I was gobsmacked how a barely visible difference can have such a huge effect on performance.

Try this with a #3 Phillips:



Anyway, it does appear that the Honda is using ISO bolt heads (18mm) vs JIS (19mm)
Here's the reference I found most useful so far for all these metric standards:
https://www.earnestmachine.com/site...uct/assets/documents/Industrial-Standards.pdf

That document is very good - but it does only apply to flange bolts / nuts - which can be slightly different sizes compared to regular!

Many tool catalogues have a chart showing what size wrenches fit which size bolts.

Here’s the Stahlwille - it’s not complete, but gives you regular ISO sizes (marked DIN ISO) among others.

Hope it’s readable!

 

[MovingAlong]

I have a one car garage which is divided in two, one part is my art studio and the other is my small workshop. As you can imagine, storage space for tools is limited. I have a Craftsman chest where I keep my sockets, all my power tools and batteries. So space is also limited.

The only way to "gain" more space (in a fixed space) is to get rid of existing items. If space is truly limited, then you're going to need to limit your collection of tools too.

So my question is for people who have a certain brand of vehicles, not so much for professional mechanics who work on all kinds of cars every day, what do you do with all the sockets you have left over? In my case I have a lot of 11, 13, 15, 15, 16, 18, 20, 23, etc.

Oddball stuff gets stored with other tools in other places. For example, my O2 sensor socket lives with my "automotive" specialty tools and not in my socket drawer. But if my space were truly limited, I'd ditch the socket and just borrow one from a parts house. Only had to change a few sensors over my lifetime, I'd get by... Same could be said with any specialty tool I suppose...

 

[MovingAlong]

My epiphany of the year was when I got some JIS screwdrivers and used them instead on my Honda. I was gobsmacked how a barely visible difference can have such a huge effect on performance.

Try this with a #3 Phillips:



Anyway, it does appear that the Honda is using ISO bolt heads (18mm) vs JIS (19mm)
Here's the reference I found most useful so far for all these metric standards:
https://www.earnestmachine.com/site...uct/assets/documents/Industrial-Standards.pdf

I have that screwdriver, it is nice...

 

[Old Man Roger]

Now that’s grip.

 

[Sbl777]

My epiphany of the year was when I got some JIS screwdrivers and used them instead on my Honda. I was gobsmacked how a barely visible difference can have such a huge effect on performance.

Try this with a #3 Phillips:



Anyway, it does appear that the Honda is using ISO bolt heads (18mm) vs JIS (19mm)
Here's the reference I found most useful so far for all these metric standards:
https://www.earnestmachine.com/site...uct/assets/documents/Industrial-Standards.pdf

That screwdriver is awesome! I have that one and 2 of the green one.

 

[Sbl777]

The only way to "gain" more space (in a fixed space) is to get rid of existing items. If space is truly limited, then you're going to need to limit your collection of tools too.



Oddball stuff gets stored with other tools in other places. For example, my O2 sensor socket lives with my "automotive" specialty tools and not in my socket drawer. But if my space were truly limited, I'd ditch the socket and just borrow one from a parts house. Only had to change a few sensors over my lifetime, I'd get by... Same could be said with any specialty tool I suppose...

I agree! You are right!

 

[Sbl777]

My thoughts: why you bought multiple sets and have several? Not to **** on GJ vibe, but what you describe as needs, have about 5 times too many tools shown your picture. Or, have really not described needs accurately.

I'd buy one good quality set, (or sort out assortment you have), keep all set for not just cars but also other things around house. Then get rid of all multiple extra sets.

Or, if you really into all tools you have shown, just live with the extra socket sizes. If you have that much excess already, what's a few different socket sizes in with all the rest?

It's about the minimum you can have. I don't even have chrome sockets. I have 1/2 impact deep and shallow, 3/8 impact deep and shallow, 3/8 swivel impact sockets, 3/8 swivel chrome, 3/8 nano Astro's, 1/2 nano's, some hex and torx. I have almost nothing in my 1/4 tool box. Just 5 metric sockets and sae's for home repairs. I keep the 1/4 set in the truck. The minimum I keep in my tool box has served me for years to do 90% of the repairs on my vehicles. Does half a drawer of sockets seem like a lot? The other photo of the small box has the sizes I don't use.

 

[VolvoRyan]

If you want fun, I've found that Volvo "red block" automatic transmission bellhousing bolts use 17, 18, or 19mm heads. The fasteners seem to be DIN, ISO, or JIS for no rhyme or reason that I can figure out. All the same size on a given car, but vary between cars.... you never quite know what you're going to get when you gotta pull a trans.

-Ryan

 

[Boogerman]

It's about the minimum you can have. I don't even have chrome sockets. I have 1/2 impact deep and shallow, 3/8 impact deep and shallow, 3/8 swivel impact sockets, 3/8 swivel chrome, 3/8 nano Astro's, 1/2 nano's, some hex and torx. I have almost nothing in my 1/4 tool box. Just 5 metric sockets and sae's for home repairs. I keep the 1/4 set in the truck. The minimum I keep in my tool box has served me for years to do 90% of the repairs on my vehicles. Does half a drawer of sockets seem like a lot? The other photo of the small box has the sizes I don't use.

If that about minimum to your way thinking, don't worry about sizes you don't like; just use as you have them; the multiple sets totally outweigh the extra sizes.

I too have toyota truck and RAV4. Here my toolbox for working on them; my son has same setup but 1/3 the size, he's narrowed it down to the 7 sizes that are actually on the vehicle. Mine is complete sets. Not shown second little red box torx/hex sockets. GJ vibe will have you think need all the stuff you have to work; reality can easily work with much less.

Now, don't think I'm advocating that! I have much, much, much more than you show, and like working with it. But, my thought is guy worried about sizes he doesn't use would surely cut out multiple sets could do without first. And, go to chrome instead bulky impacts.

 

[toddmorr]

Well I'll be. Was doing a brake caliper on 2013 Prius today and the banjo bolt was 11mm. Original caliper too, I guess the hose could have been aftermarket...