micromind
Well-known member
That's why nearly every home improvement store stocks 30 amp single pole breakers.........
Question for Sparkies
- Thread starter theoldwizard1
- Start date
That's why nearly every home improvement store stocks 30 amp single pole breakers.........
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
There is no code requirement to label the receptacle, odd as it is…
They’re nearly universal in commercial work, though.
Reducing the wire size for lighting only circuits in a large office building can save a lot, simply because there's so much wire used. 16 AWG wire uses 40% the copper of 14 AWG wire, so the cost savings potential is quite large. in smallish quantities, 16 awg MTW costs 2/3 what 14 AWG MTW does. (I'm list MTW because it's very similar to THHN, which isn't available smaller than 14 awg. larger sizes of stranded thhn are often cross listed as thhn/thhw-2/mtw.) Saving a third on lighting wire when you're using hundreds of miles of the stuff is a big chunk of change.
Dagny
Well-known member
Gotta pull easier too.
Yes, but I was talking about residential.
Would need to be a large house or have unique lighting needs to need to have lights on their own circuits.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Every place I've lived for the last 50 yrs, both large and small, had separate breakers for lighting circuits (Even apartments).
So each room had at minimum 2 breakers?
I've lived in 6 houses over the last ~25 years, none had that.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
No. That's not what I said at all.
The lighting breaker served multiple rooms.
Ditto with receptacles (except in the kitchen)
The lighting breaker served multiple rooms.
Ditto with receptacles (except in the kitchen)
Codyboy
Well-known member
When I wired my current house I did similar.
Two bedrooms had a breaker each for receptacles and another breaker for the receptacles on a shared wall between them. Another breaker shared fan/light and had the hallway lights on it.
So 4 breakers for two rooms.
Overkill? Probably.
Basically each room had its own breakers.
Master BR has Probably 3 breakers not counting the master bathroom.
micromind
Well-known member
Around here, outlets and lights are on the same circuit.
This fits well with the 'cheapest possible' mantra that prevalent in house wiring.
Aside from going dark if the breaker trips, it's not like lights add much load to a room.
Bedroom might have a lamp, alarm clock, maybe a TV if you're into those, about it.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Just about every place I've been the lighting and receptacles have been on the same circuit, with exceptions of course. I try to put a bedroom to a circuit, will sometimes split three beds to two circuits. There might be a time when a bunch of lights are on one circuit (kitchen, dining, living room, etc) with a separate circuit for the living room and entry recepts. It really depends on how the house is built and where the service is before I make up my mind how everything is going to be.
micromind
Well-known member
The main reason I don't put bedroom lights and outlets on the same circuit is people tend to use 1500 watt space heaters a lot. 2 of them on the same circuit will trip a 15 or 20 amp breaker and if the lights are on it, it'll go dark.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
We are about a month away from me getting calls about bad breakers; the first question I ask is if they have a space heater. When the answer is yes, I tell them it will be much cheaper to throw the heater in the nearest dumpster vs me adding a circuit. I also tell them I would be more than happy to take their money, but once again, they can turn the furnace up a couple of degrees and be money ahead.
since we're talking space heaters, I had to put this in .
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtailalfredeneuman
Well-known member
I used to do commercial service calls. Every October we'd start getting from calls from offices of blown 20A breakers. Invariably the secretaries felt cold, although the temp was the same 24/7/365.
I'd just see them, advise the manager, wait until the heaters were unplugged and reset the breaker. (no tools)
Last edited:
since we're talking space heaters, I had to put this in .
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
House had Al wire, and someone used a Cu only receptacle on it? Bad news when you put a big load on it, it's the differential thermal expansion that causes the problem. Connections get loose, and have high resistance.
I burnt myself on the plug of a space heater once. Was at someone's house, and unplugged the heater. Damn thing was 400 degrees -- we figured out the receptacle was worn out, and was a loose connection. In a tighter receptacle, it didn't get hot.
since we're talking space heaters, I had to put this in .
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
The ONLY heat in the office at work is from the warehouse, which is ~55*, but need to leave the door open.
So have 2 plug in heaters.
Before when it was -60* outside, I had a case of water bottles on the floor and it froze solid.l and the spideyplants were dying from the cold.
Safety visited and said they can't remain plugged in at night.
Yeah, not coming in and freezing all morning.
Dagny
Well-known member
I wish they would make a special recp. for these loads 10 to 15 dollars should do it. There are no recp. that won't eventually look like that with 1500 watts running on it.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Kitchen appliances can draw 1500 watts or more. They don't need special receptacles.
micromind
Well-known member
But kitchens have 20 amp circuits and the appliances don't run continuously.
My crockpot does and what does a 15 or 20 circuit have to do with the outlet melting?
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
This says nothing about the duration of the load.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Example.... A lot more is involved here than just time.since we're talking space heaters, I had to put this in .
space heater & non aluminum receptacle without a copper pigtail
Notice the smoke is mostly generated from behind the coverplate, which would indicate heat generated from a loose connection on the sidewire connection (due to the incompatible outlet).
Last edited:
I've got a bunch of these Hubble P-1945 receptacles in my house. I think I saved them from a school where I was wiring.
These are over 50 years old but have extremely good plug tension. Better than a brand new commercial grade. I have no doubt they could handle a continuous 1500 watt load.
I'd hate to think what they cost back when they were new. I don't know if a 5262 would be roughly equivalent, those are like $13 each today.
These are over 50 years old but have extremely good plug tension. Better than a brand new commercial grade. I have no doubt they could handle a continuous 1500 watt load.
I'd hate to think what they cost back when they were new. I don't know if a 5262 would be roughly equivalent, those are like $13 each today.
Dagny
Well-known member
probably all brass.
Codyboy
Well-known member
Our crockpots do 301W and the other is 275W.
The air fryer is 1200 watts.
Attachments
1450W for a "roaster"
Hence the quotes.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
A crockpot that uses 1500w? wow that must be SOME crockpot? industrial? mine only uses a few hundred watts
Big difference between a crockpot and a roaster. Even a roaster isn't continuous. They cycle off the thermostat.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
The secretaries in mentioned in post 56 had heaters on for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I've never had to replace a recp.. They were just spec. grade commercial (These were big offices and multiple cubicles).
Last edited:
nadogail
Well-known member
The average DIY homeowner has an infinite capacity to overload a 15 Amp circuit.
Quickstep192
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2025
- Messages
- 90
A few years ago, when I was still working, there was a lot of interest in powering LED lighting using Power Over Ethernet. A Cat6e cable would be 23ga or 24ga wire. At 50v, I guess the would still be considered low voltage?