question for the welders out there
- Thread starter jetbtdrvr
- Start date
Dan0myte
Well-known member
Do you have a 240v outlet in your garage or are you just working with regular 120v outlets?
Bender78
Well-known member
Buy the best welder that you can afford. A lot of people make the mistake of buying a cheap welder that will be "good enough" to learn on and find that they outgrow it pretty quickly, or find out that it's hard to learn to make good welds on a POS Harbor Freight machine.
Unless you only plan to weld sheet metal and you have the service for it, get a 220v machine.
I've got a 180 amp Lincoln, not a "professional" machine by any stretch of the imagination but I have found it to be quite capable of supporting all of my car and hobby work.
I'm sure that some of the more experienced guys here will chime in with their wisdom!
Unless you only plan to weld sheet metal and you have the service for it, get a 220v machine.
I've got a 180 amp Lincoln, not a "professional" machine by any stretch of the imagination but I have found it to be quite capable of supporting all of my car and hobby work.
I'm sure that some of the more experienced guys here will chime in with their wisdom!
bimmer1980
Well-known member
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48092
You're asking a fairly broad question. Check out the above link.... there is some good info in it.....
and when you do have your welder, do some practice before you jump in on a project.... It takes a little time to learn how to produce a goos solid weld.
You're asking a fairly broad question. Check out the above link.... there is some good info in it.....
and when you do have your welder, do some practice before you jump in on a project.... It takes a little time to learn how to produce a goos solid weld.
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
jetbtdvr,
I asked a similar question a week or so ago. If you have enough in the budget for it, take a look at a Miller 211. It will run off of 110 or 220 by changing the adapter on the end of the cord (supplied with the machine), has the capability to weld up to 3/8" in a single pass, can use solid core as a mig or flux core if you are outside, you can attach a spool gun for aluminum or stainless welding, it's fairly portable, has the "auto set" feature for dummies like me and best of all, it's AMERICAN made.....
The local Airgas Company offered me a NICE deal on new one that I will be picking up this Friday. Total was $847.00 plus tax for the welder. I went there to just get a welder and wound up getting the welder, a performance helmet, a new torch outfit, 3 large bottles (oxy, acet, 75/25 mix) and an empty wallet...
The only drawback is the 211 is rated at a 30% duty cycle but I don't plan on using it in a production setting so it will be fine for my use. If I find that I need more horsepower later down the road, I'll go back and get a 252 or 350P.
Another good option for 220 only would be the 212 that has the same capability as the 211 minus the 110 option but the duty cycle is increased to 60%.
After talking to the guys here and several other sites as well as several local welders and welding shops, one thing kept coming up. Don't go cheap.... You will get frustrated, have poor welds, wire feed problems, did I mention frustrated???
Go with a Lincoln, Miller, Hobart (I think they are made by Miller), or ESAB and you won't regret it. I chose to go the new route and have a 3-year warranty but if I knew a little more, I would be tempted to buy used right now and replace the wear parts and be done with it. That might happen on the next machine that I get (want a stick/TIG later).
I asked a similar question a week or so ago. If you have enough in the budget for it, take a look at a Miller 211. It will run off of 110 or 220 by changing the adapter on the end of the cord (supplied with the machine), has the capability to weld up to 3/8" in a single pass, can use solid core as a mig or flux core if you are outside, you can attach a spool gun for aluminum or stainless welding, it's fairly portable, has the "auto set" feature for dummies like me and best of all, it's AMERICAN made.....
The local Airgas Company offered me a NICE deal on new one that I will be picking up this Friday. Total was $847.00 plus tax for the welder. I went there to just get a welder and wound up getting the welder, a performance helmet, a new torch outfit, 3 large bottles (oxy, acet, 75/25 mix) and an empty wallet...
The only drawback is the 211 is rated at a 30% duty cycle but I don't plan on using it in a production setting so it will be fine for my use. If I find that I need more horsepower later down the road, I'll go back and get a 252 or 350P.
Another good option for 220 only would be the 212 that has the same capability as the 211 minus the 110 option but the duty cycle is increased to 60%.
After talking to the guys here and several other sites as well as several local welders and welding shops, one thing kept coming up. Don't go cheap.... You will get frustrated, have poor welds, wire feed problems, did I mention frustrated???
Go with a Lincoln, Miller, Hobart (I think they are made by Miller), or ESAB and you won't regret it. I chose to go the new route and have a 3-year warranty but if I knew a little more, I would be tempted to buy used right now and replace the wear parts and be done with it. That might happen on the next machine that I get (want a stick/TIG later).
makgreens
Well-known member
hobart 140!
its a very forgiving machine and ive been very pleased with mine
i learned how to weld on mine so im bias
but it welds really well and i think its pretty good
plus you can get a ton of stuff and the machine itself at either Tractor Supply or Northern Tool
and its 110v
i want a 220v machine but i dont really weld really heavy metals so at the moment i wont be looking into one
and i got my unit from a buddy so as far as duty cycle im not sure what it is.ive never had it shut down on me during welding...well i take that back...it did one time but i was trying to weld metal even a 220v machine would have trouble with
its a very forgiving machine and ive been very pleased with mine
i learned how to weld on mine so im bias
but it welds really well and i think its pretty good
plus you can get a ton of stuff and the machine itself at either Tractor Supply or Northern Tool
and its 110v
i want a 220v machine but i dont really weld really heavy metals so at the moment i wont be looking into one
and i got my unit from a buddy so as far as duty cycle im not sure what it is.ive never had it shut down on me during welding...well i take that back...it did one time but i was trying to weld metal even a 220v machine would have trouble with
shovel
Well-known member
I agree with the above posts. Stay away from cheap units and go with a quality machine. Spend the extra money and get a gas bottle. The flux-core wire has its place, but I haven't talked to anyone yet who isn't more happy with gas welds vs. the flux core. My .02
makgreens
Well-known member
yeah i lucked out and got a 5ft bottle of CL for $75 and after welding with flux for a few months and going to 75/25 made a world of difference
bimmer1980
Well-known member
depends.... do you just want to "get 'r done" or do you want to know the the technical aspects?
Wire welding, or Mig, is fairly "easy" to do, but with anything, the ****** is in the details.
It helps to know a few basic techniques. While you can learn from a book, at the end of the day, you have to actually do it. See if there is a very basic metal working class that you can take to see if you really like it. Call up the local vo-tech schools or even your high schools and see if that have some short night classes.
or heck, call up a local welding shop and see if you can "shadow" somebody for a little while....
Wire welding, or Mig, is fairly "easy" to do, but with anything, the ****** is in the details.
It helps to know a few basic techniques. While you can learn from a book, at the end of the day, you have to actually do it. See if there is a very basic metal working class that you can take to see if you really like it. Call up the local vo-tech schools or even your high schools and see if that have some short night classes.
or heck, call up a local welding shop and see if you can "shadow" somebody for a little while....
VegasBruce
Well-known member
jetbtdvr,
I asked a similar question a week or so ago. If you have enough in the budget for it, take a look at a Miller 211. It will run off of 110 or 220 by changing the adapter on the end of the cord (supplied with the machine), has the capability to weld up to 3/8" in a single pass, can use solid core as a mig or flux core if you are outside, you can attach a spool gun for aluminum or stainless welding, it's fairly portable, has the "auto set" feature for dummies like me and best of all, it's AMERICAN made.....
The local Airgas Company offered me a NICE deal on new one that I will be picking up this Friday. Total was $847.00 plus tax for the welder. I went there to just get a welder and wound up getting the welder, a performance helmet, a new torch outfit, 3 large bottles (oxy, acet, 75/25 mix) and an empty wallet...
The only drawback is the 211 is rated at a 30% duty cycle but I don't plan on using it in a production setting so it will be fine for my use. If I find that I need more horsepower later down the road, I'll go back and get a 252 or 350P.
Another good option for 220 only would be the 212 that has the same capability as the 211 minus the 110 option but the duty cycle is increased to 60%.
After talking to the guys here and several other sites as well as several local welders and welding shops, one thing kept coming up. Don't go cheap.... You will get frustrated, have poor welds, wire feed problems, did I mention frustrated???
Go with a Lincoln, Miller, Hobart (I think they are made by Miller), or ESAB and you won't regret it. I chose to go the new route and have a 3-year warranty but if I knew a little more, I would be tempted to buy used right now and replace the wear parts and be done with it. That might happen on the next machine that I get (want a stick/TIG later).
GeorgiaHybrid, congrats on your welder. Looks like you got a good deal on it. I remember the discussion on it. Its always great to get what you want without settling.
jetbtdvr, you need to decide what you want the welder to do and pick the best one for the job and your budget.
The 211 and 212 are both excellent machines. I feel the best way to pick a machine, is to figure out what you want to use it for and go one step higher. That way you can grow into it rather than out grow it. Just my $.02.
wumpus138
Member
Have a professional welder weld it...you don't want the liability risk of having the welds break and causing an accident.
As indicated above,Buy the best welder that your wallet can afford.
Nothing worse than having a machine that wont perform the task that needs to be done.
Great deals at www.cyberweld.com I buy quite a bit from them and its free shipping.
Nothing worse than having a machine that wont perform the task that needs to be done.
Great deals at www.cyberweld.com I buy quite a bit from them and its free shipping.
makgreens
Well-known member
if the guy has any sense about him he will practice before he makes the weld on the trailer
if the guy has any sense about him he will practice before he makes the weld on the trailer
You hope. I have seen lots of welds that were only caterpillars laid on top of the metal.
makgreens
Well-known member
the local community college here has a decent welding school but the waiting list is like a year and its a fulltime course so its not for the hobbyist
if thats the situation around you id say get a bunch of scrap and start practicing...i learned from videos and just doing it...lots of wire and metal used but now im semi proud of my welds and i know they are strong as hell
makgreens
Well-known member
Get a TIG welder!
I think its so much better than MIG. everyone blows a wad about how hard TIG is to learn, I feel its easier to learn than MIG.
this really is the key, welding is not like riding a bike, you get very rusty in a short period of time (no pun intended)
lastly, 120V machines are useless, unless you get a $1200+ inverter power source machine
I think its so much better than MIG. everyone blows a wad about how hard TIG is to learn, I feel its easier to learn than MIG.
the local community college here has a decent welding school but the waiting list is like a year and its a fulltime course so its not for the hobbyist
if thats the situation around you id say get a bunch of scrap and start practicing...i learned from videos and just doing it...lots of wire and metal used but now im semi proud of my welds and i know they are strong as hell
this really is the key, welding is not like riding a bike, you get very rusty in a short period of time (no pun intended)
lastly, 120V machines are useless, unless you get a $1200+ inverter power source machine
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tcianci
Well-known member
Hey, I'm the guy who bought the cheap machine! I bought a Century 110V MIG from Northern a few years back. While the principles that all of these machines operate on is the same, the features of a nicer machine like a Miller or Lincoln will keep you from being frustrated as you learn. Also, I found out that my ageing eyes have benefited from a "cheater" lens in my helmet. My next step will be a torch-mounted MIG light. It turns out that by the time I got good at laying down a bead, I couldn't see where I was putting it!!!
Buy the best welder that you can afford. A lot of people make the mistake of buying a cheap welder that will be "good enough" to learn on and find that they outgrow it pretty quickly, or find out that it's hard to learn to make good welds on a POS Harbor Freight machine.
Unless you only plan to weld sheet metal and you have the service for it, get a 220v machine.
I've got a 180 amp Lincoln, not a "professional" machine by any stretch of the imagination but I have found it to be quite capable of supporting all of my car and hobby work.
I'm sure that some of the more experienced guys here will chime in with their wisdom!
I've used the same the same Lincoln a bit before and liked it (friend has one). I don't have a ton of experience welding, but this same friend just gave me another of the same welder (yes, free) so I will soon have much more time under my belt. I just finished building my new garage and have an electrician friend coming this week to wire the 220v outlet for it when he wraps up some other details, so it'll be hot soon! Time to really learn what the hell I'm doing. I'll be using it mostly for light auto and hobby/fab work, so I don't need a tremendous machine. This should cover pretty much anything I need to do at home. Anything bigger I'd bring to my friend as he has much "better" equipment and (experience) at his disposal
madjack
Well-known member
While you are looking , try the fit and triggers of different guns. I use ESAB guns with flex heads. Different size grips and different trigger placement make a difference in the comfort and that makes a difference in weld quality
VegasBruce
Well-known member
Good advise, I hadn't thought of that. But try this with the gloves you are going to be wearing. I feel the smaller guns off the 110 machines tend to get lost in a pair of heavy welding gloves.
rburke65
Well-known member
I am going to disagree with "gofastman" when he said..."lastly, 120V machines are useless". There have been a lot of quality welds made with a 120 Volt mig welders. You won't be welding 1/2" plate, but for the hobbist, they are more than adequate.
mig welding is not easy. its one of the hardest to master, especially with a 110 machine. I would not think of anything below a 175. the samll welders are sheetmetal welder. everybody like them because their cheap and cool. you are not a welder
the first welder needs to be a crackerbox. the lincoln are cheap and last forever, but on a cracker box it really doesnt matter what brand or condions, they are so simple, their good. a shopper guide $50 used unit is great. Once you lern to stick weld then go to mig.
and like one guy said, tig welding is the ultimate. But it take talent
the first welder needs to be a crackerbox. the lincoln are cheap and last forever, but on a cracker box it really doesnt matter what brand or condions, they are so simple, their good. a shopper guide $50 used unit is great. Once you lern to stick weld then go to mig.
and like one guy said, tig welding is the ultimate. But it take talent
I have a miller 212 and love it! I run .023 wire for sheet metal and .035 for anything else.
Spend the bucks you will be glad you did. Flux core is a beginners worst nightmare.... (unless you like to spend ours with a grinder)
Spend the bucks you will be glad you did. Flux core is a beginners worst nightmare.... (unless you like to spend ours with a grinder)
Kjbakke2
ALLIANCE MEMBER
i say stick to the current upper lines
lincoln
miller
hobart
ive always preferred lincolns
and i would say stay away from flux core
its hard to get deep penetration
and the advantages of 220 are that you have a higher material capacity and also better arc stability
lincoln
miller
hobart
ive always preferred lincolns
and i would say stay away from flux core
its hard to get deep penetration
and the advantages of 220 are that you have a higher material capacity and also better arc stability
sberry
Banned
Some good advice here. A lot of it is simple, welding from a 120V circuit is very limited due to the available power. Going to 240 by nature eliminates so many inherent problems and if you dont have it, you probably need it. The 180 class machines are twice that of the 120V models for 200$ extra. Simple good odds. If you need to move it the 211 would have some advantages as well as have a future with some light aluminum if you want to make the investment, but the real deal is one of those Lincolns on super sale at the box store or better yet a Hobart 187 for steel, which I wouldn't fool with alum unless I had a real need, find a friend with a tig on the outside chances you need it.
A 187 with 030 solid wire and the biggest gas bottle you can find, change out to 023 for consistent auto body work. The real need to go portable is over rated for most people, if your buddy aint got a 240 he needs one too, the need for more power in these types of machines is under rated. Its why they make this class of machine, while a 180 is still wimpy as far as welding machines go (wire feed) they are actually (professional) to some extent. The arc quality is exceptional on thickness they are suited for. They work well with cords.
Only draws are small rolls, limited power and low duty cycles, issues relatively insignificant to hobby/auto users or anything on a car/pickup.
They are hi value buys with very competitive pricing (lowest markups) and good investment, no one should have any buyers remorse, great place to stimulate the economy, run right out and buy one.
A 187 with 030 solid wire and the biggest gas bottle you can find, change out to 023 for consistent auto body work. The real need to go portable is over rated for most people, if your buddy aint got a 240 he needs one too, the need for more power in these types of machines is under rated. Its why they make this class of machine, while a 180 is still wimpy as far as welding machines go (wire feed) they are actually (professional) to some extent. The arc quality is exceptional on thickness they are suited for. They work well with cords.
Only draws are small rolls, limited power and low duty cycles, issues relatively insignificant to hobby/auto users or anything on a car/pickup.
They are hi value buys with very competitive pricing (lowest markups) and good investment, no one should have any buyers remorse, great place to stimulate the economy, run right out and buy one.
e-tek
Well-known member
I've found tho that when you have "too much" light near an auto-darkening helmet, you're always adjusting the thing so it doesn't go dark on ya! Anyone else?
I have to TOTALLY disagree with THAT^^
MIG has made welders out of any Tom, ****, or Mary! Especially "true MIG" (with GAS) - it's like a molten caulking gun! When I learned Oxy/A welding it took a while and it was never :set it and forget it". You had to know what you where doing and change everything for the conditions....After years of Oxy/A welding (including lots of warped sheet metal!) I cheaped out and bought a Chinese Flux Welder. Did the job, with lots of splatter and burns...but then I bought a Lincoln 180 machine - holy hot metal squirt-guns Batman!!! The 220 can weld 18g to 1/2inch plate!! It pours molten stell on stuff faster than you can say: "I am a welding GOD!"
I won't say that you're not a "welder" if you've only MIG'd, but starting with Oxy-A sure gives you an appreciation for the new stuff!
bimmer1980
Well-known member
Yes, MIG is easy to get started with, but to be a truely master welder, it will take some time. There is a science to reading how much heat you need and how much you putting into the base metal. Remember, just because a weld looks good, does not necessarily mean it is a strong weld.
as far as TIG goes, I would recommend against it. Not for a person who has never welded before. I have one and it takes a lot of practice and it is really only good for specialty projects (aircraft parts, race car parts, aluminum or specialty steel welding). For general welding, you can't beat the MIG welder.
Get the best welder you can afford, bust most important, get the gas, not the flux core!!!!!
and practice, practice, practice and then break test your welds.
as far as TIG goes, I would recommend against it. Not for a person who has never welded before. I have one and it takes a lot of practice and it is really only good for specialty projects (aircraft parts, race car parts, aluminum or specialty steel welding). For general welding, you can't beat the MIG welder.
Get the best welder you can afford, bust most important, get the gas, not the flux core!!!!!
and practice, practice, practice and then break test your welds.
sberry
Banned
The majority of the worlds equipment is light mild steel, these machines were designed with this crowd as poster children. This is a place where the quality of the tool makes a significant difference. You can only cheap it so far and still make it work right. There is a lot of competition for quality among the top makers.
Me too!
I bought a Century off my neighbor probably 7-8 years ago. It was literally brand new (he bought it, then had a heart attack and never used it). Got it for $200 with a ton of extras (auto-darkening helmet, a whole box of magnets, slag hammers, clamps, gloves, new wire spools, blanket, etc etc). All together the reciepts were around $700 if I remember correctly, everything was new and in packages still. He couldn't believe I didn't want to try and argue him down from $200. I guess I could have gotten it cheaper, but I felt his price was more than fair.
Plan was to use it a bit, then upgrade to a nice name brand welder. Like I said, that was 7 or 8 years ago. I find that I need it about 1-2 times a year, and as long as I practice getting it set up on some scrap first it has always perfromed acceptably for me.
Not saying a cheapie is for everyone, or even the right way to go, but mine has not disapointed me yet on the little jobs I've needed it for.
mikeyr
Well-known member
WOW I have to disagree with the posters who said stay away from TIG, its the only way to weld. My MIG has not been used in many years since I got the TIG, the only reason for me keeping the MIG is that its paid for and it is faster if I ever did large jobs.
I did find the TIG learning curve to be steep but at least I am not using my MIG like a plasma cutter anymore, I was welding sheet metal with the MIG and would always burn through, with the TIG I have no burn through and I am also doing aluminum now.
A class is the only way to really learn, yeah, with LOTS and LOTS of practice you might be a ok welder, with a good teacher you can be a great welder in short time. I did the Lincoln 1 week class, best thing I ever did for my car hobby was take that class.
I did find the TIG learning curve to be steep but at least I am not using my MIG like a plasma cutter anymore, I was welding sheet metal with the MIG and would always burn through, with the TIG I have no burn through and I am also doing aluminum now.
A class is the only way to really learn, yeah, with LOTS and LOTS of practice you might be a ok welder, with a good teacher you can be a great welder in short time. I did the Lincoln 1 week class, best thing I ever did for my car hobby was take that class.
7echo
Well-known member
I think the MIG is easiest to weld with, but to be really good at it does take some skill. One of my guys is great with a MIG welder. He doesn't just pull the trigger and pray, 'tho. He knows the science of the thing, and he has spent a lot of hours welding to become skilled.
At one time I had a machinist working for me that was great with a TIG torch. He worked for the air force reserve and welded fuel lines for inexpensive little trinkets like the F-14. Man I miss him when I need TIG work done.
Really, while you can do several things with any style welder, each has an area where it shines. If you have big structural work to do a stick machine is awesome.
Our local tech school won't let you just come in and take something you want, you have to go through the program. I get that, but it would be nice for the community if they ran a regular class for guys that just want to get some skill for their hobby.
At one time I had a machinist working for me that was great with a TIG torch. He worked for the air force reserve and welded fuel lines for inexpensive little trinkets like the F-14. Man I miss him when I need TIG work done.
Really, while you can do several things with any style welder, each has an area where it shines. If you have big structural work to do a stick machine is awesome.
Our local tech school won't let you just come in and take something you want, you have to go through the program. I get that, but it would be nice for the community if they ran a regular class for guys that just want to get some skill for their hobby.
crewchief888
Well-known member
get a name brand welder, miller, hobart,lincoln. if and when you need parts, ie: liner, feed rollers, ect. you can find parts. my old (used) daytona mig served me very well for many years, and when it gave up i bought a new lincoln promig140. found it on clearance @ lowes for $359. same machine in the welding supply house was going for over $500. i mainly run flux core wire, unless i have sheet metal to do, then i switch over to .023 and 75/25. my main reason for using flux core was an issue with a local welding supply house that had a used miller welder for $250 that i was gonna buy. i gave em a deposit to hold it for a week, when i went back to pick it up, i was told "oh sorry, we sold that to the muffler shop down the street this morning for $275, they really needed it" needless to say i was more than a little pissed, and i couldnt get my hands around the little SOB's throat that was behind the counter.
Curt_pnw
Well-known member
I agree. I think everyone should start out with Oxy/A. It's like learning to fly in a taildragger, then you can fly just about anything else.
That's what I am doing. My dad has one he uses every now and then, so I started to practice on scraps(mostly pipe and some sheet metal), and I am starting to get some decent beads and good penetration. I have a while to go though before I would consider myself a true "welder"
BWS
Well-known member
+10 on learning O/A welding first.....we have O/A,Buzzbox(stick),Mig and Tig.They all have they're uses.If headed outdoors the Mig/Fluxcore is gonna go.Rarely use it indoors however,even with its bttle.The Tig machine is the "go-to" 'round here.Lots of fixtures and jigs with a healthy dose of repair work.Alot of it can be done with O/A...they even share some rods.Migs have probably ruined as many would-be welders as created them.BE DANG CAREFUL what you agree or decide to weld.....Learn to say NO.Just being able to stick two pcs of metal together dosen't a welder make.If the project is life threatening in ANY fashion,you'd better think twice.
I grew up with welding bigish equip and structural steel and with a cutting torch.In some spare time(those were the days),decided to take some basic comm.coll. courses.......eventually taking everything they had to offer on the subject.Best investment ever.Even for someone who has alot of experience,there's always room for improvement.Best of luck,BW
I grew up with welding bigish equip and structural steel and with a cutting torch.In some spare time(those were the days),decided to take some basic comm.coll. courses.......eventually taking everything they had to offer on the subject.Best investment ever.Even for someone who has alot of experience,there's always room for improvement.Best of luck,BW