Railroad Tools Big & Small

[nadogail]

Obviously a Spike Maul, for driving the spikes that hold the rails onto the wooden ties.

 

[ararat]

I picked this up at an auction a couple weeks ago. It was in a lot with some axes and sledges and described as a maul, which i was very pleased about because it was priced as a no-name weirdly short handled maul would be. After some careful examination, weighing, and measuring, I'm fairly certain I've got a Woodings Verona "Veronalloy" 1Q chisel, as found on page 20 of the Woodings Verona catalogue 16. I've not been able to find much else about it, none for sale anywhere, or recently sold, no post about them or even any actual pictures, just the sketch from the catalogue. So i felt it my responsibility to put it on the line(and i think its cool as hell and wanted to show it off) so that others may have something to reference.

A big hot cut chisel I guess.

I have some W&V hammers that are green, I need to check if they are marked Veronalloy.

 

[AreBeeBee]

Ararat's hot-cut chisel idea sounds convincing to me. I have a spike maul and the long end of the head is both round and has a flat hammer face. Also, it's long enough for a gandy dancer to drive a spike fully home when standing on the other side of the rail.

 

[Seppala]

Ararat‘s guess is dead on correct. It’s a handled hot chisel.

 

[Historyworker]

A big hot cut chisel I guess.

I have some W&V hammers that are green, I need to check if they are marked Veronalloy.

Thats what I was figuring when I bid on it. I only thought that because I had gotten something similar this past summer. Also W-V but half the size.

 

[ararat]

Thats what I was figuring when I bid on it. I only thought that because I had gotten something similar this past summer. Also W-V but half t

I wonder what they were used for. What would they be cutting?

Also, my hammers don't have the Veronalloy mark.

 

[Historyworker]

I wonder what they were used for. What would they be cutting?

Also, my hammers don't have the Veronalloy mark.

I wondered the same thing. So much so that I even had doubts about posting it on this thread lol. But I imagine they were probably an all purpose field Utility tool. Out in the middle of nowhere laying tracks, problems arise, stuff breaks, things are needed. So likely they'd fabricate solutions, and metal will always need to be cut at some point in that process.

 

[Seppala]

I wonder what they were used for. What would they be cutting?

It would be used to cut hot iron or steel at a forge. The hot metal would be placed on an anvil, the cutting edge of the hot chisel would be placed on the metal, and the hot chisel would be struck with a sledgehammer.

 

[Jacobs976]

I wonder what they were used for. What would they be cutting?

Also, my hammers don't have the Veronalloy mark.

Rail used to be fractured on site for odd pieces. You'd have one guy holding the chisel while another swung a sledge and the rail would fracture like cast iron then fused with existing rail with thermite.

It was cold, not hot, though because it was just fracturing instead of cutting.

Also they had variable length options. Longer handles for those who didn't trust the guy with the hammer and smaller for those that had more trust. Mines a 16" so it's the one they'd use if they wanted to retire early. Realistically it was moved to thermite cleanup where the hot iron was cut away on seam lines and the top of the mold before being worked down with grinding tools to match the surrounding track.

 

[ararat]

Rail used to be fractured on site for odd pieces. You'd have one guy holding the chisel while another swung a sledge and the rail would fracture like cast iron then fused with existing rail with thermite.

It was cold, not hot, though because it was just fracturing instead of cutting.

Also they had variable length options. Longer handles for those who didn't trust the guy with the hammer and smaller for those that had more trust. Mines a 16" so it's the one they'd use if they wanted to retire early. Realistically it was moved to thermite cleanup where the hot iron was cut away on seam lines and the top of the mold before being worked down with grinding tools to match the surrounding track.

Now I need one so I can try to break a piece of rail.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Jacobs976]

Now I need one so I can try to break a piece of rail.

Thanks for the explanation.

Just make sure it's an old rail, newer rail might not react favourably. Also not in use of course, the railroad isn't too happy with that.

New stuff is cut with a diamond blade, not sure of composition difference but I think there's been at least three different variations on rail alloy throughout USA rail development.

If you're in a hurry to try it any metal chisel should work too, just score it across the width a bit more and expect to be there for awhile. With the rail chisel it'd basically be shifted along the width of the rail and beat on till a fracture started then centered and continued till a final separation basically like breaking concrete up.

 

[ararat]

Just make sure it's an old rail, newer rail might not react favourably. Also not in use of course, the railroad isn't too happy with that.

New stuff is cut with a diamond blade, not sure of composition difference but I think there's been at least three different variations on rail alloy throughout USA rail development.

If you're in a hurry to try it any metal chisel should work too, just score it across the width a bit more and expect to be there for awhile. With the rail chisel it'd basically be shifted along the width of the rail and beat on till a fracture started then centered and continued till a final separation basically like breaking concrete up.

I was joking. There are some old pieces of rail out in barn that I was thinking of but I doubt I'll be breaking them anytime soon.

 

[Jacobs976]

I was joking. There are some old pieces of rail out in barn that I was thinking of but I doubt I'll be breaking them anytime soon.

Figured you were joking with the and had to include my own attempt, a bit dry but I like wrong assumption humour.

I got some pieces too, a 3 foot section from the co-op and some scrap cuts. Haven't had a reason to break anything down either although I had looked at cutting the big piece down to make a horn on one end for a more proper anvil. Small sections, 3/8 to 1-1/2, made good shaping anvils too but those were precut scrap that someone tried to see if my window was impact resistant with. Perks of living by a railroad I guess, plus the city dumps some interesting stuff here too occasionally.

 

[ararat]

Figured you were joking with the and had to include my own attempt, a bit dry but I like wrong assumption humour.

I got some pieces too, a 3 foot section from the co-op and some scrap cuts. Haven't had a reason to break anything down either although I had looked at cutting the big piece down to make a horn on one end for a more proper anvil. Small sections, 3/8 to 1-1/2, made good shaping anvils too but those were precut scrap that someone tried to see if my window was impact resistant with. Perks of living by a railroad I guess, plus the city dumps some interesting stuff here too occasionally.

Too easy to miss the humor or sarcasm on the internet. Here's a piece of rail I have sitting by my anvil. It's a lot smaller than modern rail. Maybe from logging or mining.
Any ideas about what it would have been used for?

 

[Jacobs976]

Too easy to miss the humor or sarcasm on the internet. Here's a piece of rail I have sitting by my anvil. It's a lot smaller than modern rail. Maybe from logging or mining.
Any ideas about what it would have been used for?

Mining would be the only thing I can imagine using that tiny rail. Ore carts specifically because they had to haul the rail in by hand and minimize space and weight overall given the harsh environment. Basically anything you could physically push/pull or have a mule pull would be viable with that size though.

Could be pretty old too, not necessarily the oldest but definitely well aged. Could've easily been a souvenir from about any mine.

Hard to tell in pics but that could've been fractured in the last pic too, if there's no clear cut marks like from a saw or torch then it'd most likely have been hit with a chisel, specifically the one mentioned earlier since they were fairly abundant when tracks were being built. Only the right tools were used because those rails having issues or taking too much time to install meant they were costing the mine owners money.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

 

[ararat]

Mining would be the only thing I can imagine using that tiny rail. Ore carts specifically because they had to haul the rail in by hand and minimize space and weight overall given the harsh environment. Basically anything you could physically push/pull or have a mule pull would be viable with that size though.

Could be pretty old too, not necessarily the oldest but definitely well aged. Could've easily been a souvenir from about any mine.

Hard to tell in pics but that could've been fractured in the last pic too, if there's no clear cut marks like from a saw or torch then it'd most likely have been hit with a chisel, specifically the one mentioned earlier since they were fairly abundant when tracks were being built. Only the right tools were used because those rails having issues or taking too much time to install meant they were costing the mine owners money.

It seems old. It came from SW Virginia and there is coal mining around there.

It looks like it was broken off.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Speaking of rails... Two samples from my 'Railroad' collection.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

It seems old. It came from SW Virginia and there is coal mining around there.

It looks like it was broken off.

Most likely mining rail. But some of the first RR rails were wood, and then they went to about that size rail. There was a big discussion on that subject on Smoke stack.

 

[Beerhippie]

Most likely mining rail. But some of the first RR rails were wood, and then they went to about that size rail. There was a big discussion on that subject on Smoke stack.

Wood with a cast-iron cap, which didn't last worth a damn and had to be continuously replaced.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Railroading runs in the blood. Here is a shadow box with the retirement certificate of my great grandfather. He was a track man for the Erie railroad.

Hey, Sonny, you posted this in the middle of the Jim Crow deep dive last fall, I forgot about your post, then I sort of lost the bead on the thread through the winter, and then I dove back in during the SWACO hopper car wrench discussion, shamefully, without ever commenting. Apologies. That's a really nice and well-done tribute.

 

[thehorse13]

Hey, Sonny, you posted this in the middle of the Jim Crow deep dive last fall, I forgot about your post, then I sort of lost the bead on the thread through the winter, and then I dove back in during the SWACO hopper car wrench discussion, shamefully, without ever commenting. Apologies. That's a really nice and well-done tribute.

No apologies needed at all. I forgot that I posted that in this thread. lol

Thank you for circling back on this old post of mine.

 

[cody1325]

It seems old. It came from SW Virginia and there is coal mining around there.

It looks like it was broken off.

Interestingly enough, I too have a piece of rail of roughly the same size--crudely made into an anvil (and currently, my only one). Thus, my guess is mining too--presumably in the Pocahontas, VA area--in my county as I've seen old carts of similar gauge they had on display in a park.

I still use mine heavily, though in many ways, a Hi-Lift is more versatile. Light for the capacity due to the aluminum frame, and the "toe" type design means it can get under things the two normal Simplex jacks cannot. Thus, mine is usually something I carry around when doing yard work for moving anything too heavy for me to lift.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thank you for circling back on this old post of mine.

The subject is near and dear to my heart. You may have seen me mention my grandfather a few times here and there, briefly, especially if you've followed my Lugzsonian thread. "Little Johnny", as he was affectionately known in town, was a track man and then the foreman of the track gang for the Chestnut Ridge Railway, in Palmerton, PA.

I could go on about Chestnut Ridge with all kinds of cool maps and photos and memorabilia. It was an interesting railway. A short track, established in 1898 by the likes of J.P. Morgan and John Jacob Astor, with a passenger main line (only 11 miles long!) that ran between Kunkletown, PA and Palmerton, PA, and an even shorter passenger and freight branch line (1.49 miles!) that ended up playing a very significant role in the economy of the town, intertwined with my boyhood, and the source of some popular lore among Pennsy railroaders.

But only if @AntiqueBen indulges me. I don't want to "de-rail" the tools context of the thread.

 

[Provincial]

Rail was also used for sawmill carriage tracks in sawmills.

 

[thehorse13]

The subject is near and dear to my heart. You may have seen me mention my grandfather a few times here and there, briefly, especially if you've followed my Lugzsonian thread. "Little Johnny", as he was affectionately known in town, was a track man and then the foreman of the track gang for the Chestnut Ridge Railway, in Palmerton, PA.

I could go on about Chestnut Ridge with all kinds of cool maps and photos and memorabilia. It was an interesting railway. A short track, established in 1898 by the likes of J.P. Morgan and John Jacob Astor, with a passenger main line (only 11 miles long!) that ran between Kunkletown, PA and Palmerton, PA, and an even shorter passenger and freight branch line (1.49 miles!) that ended up playing a very significant role in the economy of the town, intertwined with my boyhood, and the source of some popular lore among Pennsy railroaders.

But only if @AntiqueBen indulges me. I don't want to "de-rail" the tools context of the thread.

I can relate to this more than you know. I have photos of steam engines picking up and dropping off my great grandfather for his work day as my great grandmother waived from the porch. My great grandparents lived across the street from the train yard along with my grandparents and my dad and uncles. Present day, things look much different, especially since the NYS thruway decided to build an overpass directly over the yard but here is an areal shot just for further illumination. 44 and 46 were owned by my great grandfather.

Like you, I could go on forever on the topic but the true rail passion seems to skip every other generation. My dad and oldest son live and breath rails just like my great grandfather did.

 

[MShaw]

"Mining would be the only thing I can imagine using that tiny rail."
Could also be trolley rail. My father had a piece of small rail like that which he always said was trolley rail.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I can relate to this more than you know.

HAHA! Indeed. Neat photo.

Well, I will dig a little, too, and if Ben gets upset, I will blame you or beg for forgiveness.

Some of you have seen this map before, showing my hometown (Palmerton) and its proximity to Martin guitar, Mario Andretti's home track, the home of Mack truck (after its brief initial stint in NY), and two beloved tool makers. That strip of green running diagonally across the map through my avatar, just south of Palmerton, is the Blue Mountain. That dotted line is the Appalachian trail. It also demarcates Carbon county from Northampton county.

See Wind Gap to the east? Kunkletown is just off the map to the northeast of that, but on the south side of the mountain. The Chestnut Ridge Railway - all of it, the entire line, ran between Palmerton, through Little Gap, to Kunkletown.




Here's a relevant map and few blurbs from various railroad sources.





But here's a better story (edited down by me...) from a local historical society.

Chestnut Ridge Railway had many uses during its brief tenure

Monroe County Historical Society The Chestnut Ridge Railway of Pennsylvania was organized in 1898 to carry bricks and tourists from Kunkletown through Little Gap to Palmerton. This little-known, ve…

www.poconorecord.com

"The Chestnut Ridge Railway of Pennsylvania was organized in 1898 to carry bricks and tourists from Kunkletown through Little Gap to Palmerton...[ ]...The earliest stockholders...included J.P. Morgan, Howard Gould, Chauncey Depew and John Jacob Astor. Their plan was to build a factory in Kunkletown to make white bricks from the local clay. The railroad was needed to take the bricks from that factory to a connection of the Central Railroad of New Jersey in Lehigh Gap, eleven miles away. New Jersey Zinc had begun a smelter in Palmerton near the Central Railroad of New Jersey about the same time, so that was a very active line...Unfortunately, neither the white bricks nor the resort plans were successful. The brick company went bankrupt in less than three years, and the tourists never appeared in great numbers to ride the train.

In 1901 the railroad was reorganized under new management....It hauled passengers, freight and mail from Kunkletown to Palmerton. The station at Kunkletown was a dead end — the connections were all in Palmerton.

In the years 1905 and 1906, records show that there were two round trips and sometimes 200 passengers a day. The train was very important to the people along the line. They could go to their jobs in Palmerton, and also connect to distant points via the Lehigh and New England or the Jersey Central. In 1907, the entire railroad was purchased by the New Jersey Zinc Company and traffic was increased as it hauled products to and from the zinc company.

The Chestnut Ridge Railway Company continued passenger and mail service until 1935, when it turned strictly to freight service for the zinc industry. "

Wiki:

Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains/ICC valuations/Chestnut Ridge Railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Historical society piece from the other terminus (Kunkletown)

#6 - Chestnut Ridge Railway | Mysite

tourofkunkletown.wixsite.com

Stay with me. It's about to get personal.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That branch line of the CRR mentioned in the article, running between the East and West Plant of the NJ Zinc Company, went right through town. Here is a 50,000' view of Palmerton with both plants shown. You can see the high school football field and baseball field at the top, the town below it. And the tracks running right through town.



When I was a boy, my younger brother and I walked to elementary school, and had to take a footbridge that crossed the tracks.



We were always late for school and late home, too, because we would linger on that footbridge hoping to catch site of our grandfather. Killing time, we would see who could land their spit directly on a rail.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

He was born in 1905. He came to the US from the Austro-Hungarian empire (now Slovakia) in 1921. Went right to work as a track hand on the CRR. My grandmother was a maid at the boarding house he stayed. In 1971, when he retired, now as the foreman of the track gang, I was just a boy, but the day is indelible in my memory. I had never seen him or so many other grown men show so much emotion. Not a dry eye in the bungalow. His former gang, and company bigwigs, came to the house with a model RR set. It was huge. They installed it for him on a long table in the attic. They also presented him this pen and ink drawing - a classic Pennsy 4-6-2, which I have today.



As well as one of his pins.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Some photos...

 

[AntiqueBen]

Boy...did I luck out yesterday. I've always wanted a big Railroad Jack, but I didn't want to spend what a good one was going for. I found a Duff-Norton Barrett No. 110 railroad jack at one of my wife's favorite antique shops. It's also 15 ton. I was "shocked" to see a $45 price tag. It obviously had some surface rust, but it operated freely & seemed to be in good shape, so I was happy to buy it. It actually cleaned up better than I thought it would. It has a patent date of 1925. I'm still fascinated how the mechanism works. It was definitely barn fresh. It had a bunch of straw & manure in it. Maybe that's what help preserve it
Before & after pics below.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I finally found the original ad for the Duff Norton No. 110 jack. The ad is in the Railway Engineering & Maintenance dated December 1924. Duff refers to the no. 110 as the "ultimate track jack."

 

[ararat]

here's a smaller simplex jack. It's still waiting on the clean up. I got it from an estate sale with a bunch of other good stuff. Not sure if the smaller sizes would be for railroad use.

 

[four.cycle]

@AntiqueBen:
RE: Duff 110 railroad jack
patent 1534613 Apr 21 1925 F.H. Schwerin

Thanks Jeff!

My initial search "patent April 21 1925 Duff jack" on Google is a glaring example of why "AI" will NEVER work.
Google's "AI" return on my earlier search this morning gave a completely different patent number, which was also for a completely different item.
The photo image posted below shows the return from Google's "AI" on the THIRD search using that exact same search string. Each time the search results were different. At least on the THIRD attempt Google found a patent for a jack - the first two were for completely unrelated items.
I find it difficult to believe that educated, seemingly intelligent people think this will ever work. Mind-boggling, to say the least.

 

[AntiqueBen]

@AntiqueBen:
RE: Duff 110 railroad jack
patent 1534613 Apr 21 1925 F.H. Schwerin

Thanks Jeff!

My initial search "patent April 21 1925 Duff jack" on Google is a glaring example of why "AI" will NEVER work.
Google's "AI" return on my earlier search this morning gave a completely different patent number, which was also for a completely different item.
The photo image posted below shows the return from Google's "AI" on the THIRD search using that exact same search string. Each time the search results were different. At least on the THIRD attempt Google found a patent for a jack - the first two were for completely unrelated items.
I find it difficult to believe that educated, seemingly intelligent people think this will ever work. Mind-boggling, to say the least.

Good work. I had difficulty locating this patent too. The link to the patent is HERE

 

[AntiqueBen]

I'm not really finding much information online for the Duff No. 110. Is the 110 an uncommon jack? I guess you would have to start looking at Duff catalogs in 1924-25 & go forward to seeing when they stopped offering the 110 to know how long of a run it had. But I'm not finding very many catalog ads for the 110.

 

[four.cycle]

WOW!~ he got that one up FAST! Must be a slow day at Jeff's house.

 

[four.cycle]

Duff and Duff Norton jacks at International Tool Catalog Library

the model 110 is not shown in the 1924 Duff catalog.

none of the material I have here shows a model 110. (31 files from 1904 to 1948... but no 110)

 

[AntiqueBen]

Duff and Duff Norton jacks at International Tool Catalog Library

the model 110 is not shown in the 1924 Duff catalog.

none of the material I have here shows a model 110. (31 files from 1904 to 1948... but no 110)

I know. Very odd. Up to this point the only thing I've found was the original 1924 ad. I found the 1925 catalog & it wasn't there either