Raised Ranch column removal.

[ammarineli]

Happy holidays.

I am renovating my garage and have to replace the beam holding up the second floor. I had an engineer size the replacement with a flitch plate. This will remove the center column. Right now its 2- 2x12s with a post in the center. The span is 19’. 2-1.75x11 1/4” LVLs with a 1/2” Flitch was the beam sized.

Does anyone have any pictures of a raised ranches with the column removed?

 

[Hank11]

Get all the drywall off your current beam so you know what’s underneath there. Then ask the engineer if he can determine a proper construction with an LVL on each side of what you have now. That will be so much easier than building temporary support walls to put in the new beam.

 

[ammarineli]

Get all the drywall off your current beam so you know what’s underneath there. Then ask the engineer if he can determine a proper construction with an LVL on each side of what you have now. That will be so much easier than building temporary support walls to put in the new beam.

Its already removed. Its 2 2x12s. The engineer already ran the calculations and sized either 2 9.5” LVLs with a 3/4 flitch or 2 11.25 LVLs with a 1/2” flitch. Just looking to see if anyone has pictures of the same setup i plan on doing.

 

[mike93lx]

What are you hoping to see with the pics? Lvl's will look very similar to 2x and what it will look like without a post shouldn't be hard to picture

 

[ammarineli]

What are you hoping to see with the pics? Lvl's will look very similar to 2x and what it will look like without a post shouldn't be hard to picture

Just looking to see different set ups and how people dealt with the exposed portion of the beam. It will be recessed 7” into the floor and 4” below the ceiling. Looking for ideas like faux beams, paneling, etc.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I assume you're going to eventually finish off the garage with a ceiling instead of open floor joists? It probably has to be covered with fire resistant drywall to meet code, including over the new LVLs. You could drop the whole ceiling 4" to get a totally flat ceiling but that takes away from headroom in the rest of the garage, I think I'd just box over the LVLs with drywall and leave it at that.

 

[ammarineli]

Yes 5/8 drywall on ceiling and drywall on interior walls. Ply on exterior. Whole house had blown in insulation everywhere. It was not fun.

 

[PCustoms]

Here you go:

 

[larry4406]

What is your goal?

1. Just the column removal?
2. Raise the beam into the ceiling to increase head room?
3. Both?

If just Number 1, I think I would tell the engineer to give you a solution that allows you to scab onto the existing beam while it is supported by the column. You will need to post these additions down to the sill plate/foundation. Once done, knock the column out. Then trim the beam as needed for drywall finishing.

If Number 2 as well, then you will have to build temporary walls either side of the existing beam to allow the joists to be cut to let in the new raised beam. You will need to support the existing joists off the raised beam via hangers. The hangers mount on the side of the new raised beam which will require you to fully raise the beam up tight to the bottom of the existing subfloor. This raised beam will crash with any and all plumbing, heating, wiring that runs in the existing joist bays. I do not see how you plan on only recessing the beam 7" into the flooring system while keeping it 4" down. A partially raised beam will not allow proper support of the joists via hangers.

@manwithtools recently posted pictures somewhere showing how he braced and removed a dropped beam, installed a new raised beam, and hung the floor system off the sides of the new raised beam. Perhaps he can link to these photos as I can't find them.

 

[manwithtools]

I do not see how you plan on only recessing the beam 7" into the flooring system while keeping it 4" down. A partially raised beam will not allow proper support of the joists via hangers.

Larry, I think he mentioned a 11.25" LVL, if that is the case, the joist hangers could be installed flush to the top of the beam and 4" of the beam would be below the joists??? It looks like existing joists are 2 x 8's.

As to the post I had made about this process, take a look here: Removing fake wood beams from a ceiling

 

[PCustoms]

@larry4406

Its already removed. Its 2 2x12s. The engineer already ran the calculations and sized either 2 9.5” LVLs with a 3/4 flitch or 2 11.25 LVLs with a 1/2” flitch. Just looking to see if anyone has pictures of the same setup i plan on doing.

It will be recessed 7” into the floor and 4” below the ceiling.

Looking for ideas like faux beams, paneling, etc.

Just wrap what is exposed in drywall. Are you replacing the ceiling drywall as well? I would, for some fire protection, and code likely requires it.

 

[ammarineli]

The floor joists are 2x7s. So an 11+ lvl will be sticking down even if tight to the floor. I may have worded it wrong. Thanks for posting the thread to your process. I will probaly end up with something similiar to the faux beam you had in those pictures. Thats what i was looking for.

 

[mike93lx]

The floor joists are 2x7s. So an 11+ lvl will be sticking down even if tight to the floor. I may have worded it wrong. Thanks for posting the thread to your process. I will probaly end up with something similiar to the faux beam you had in those pictures. Thats what i was looking for.

FYI, they are 2x8. No such thing as a 2x7

 

[ammarineli]

Thats what i thought but every single joist is 7” even. Not one of them is 7 1/4”. Maybe the 2x8s were 7 even when the house was built

 

[larry4406]

So what is/are your goals?

Column removal only, or column removal with raised beam?

You need to confirm 100% what is running in the joist bays first before you kill all the bays with a raised beam.

Scabbing the existing dropped beam is much easier and retains the joist bays should they be needed for ductwork, plumbing, etc.

 

[Hank11]

This will be a LOT of work to gain a few inches off the exposed depth of a beam. How about metal on the sides of what is there now? Might ask the engineer about that. There’s nothing you’re gonna do that’s gonna get you a perfectly flat ceiling.

 

[ammarineli]

Previous owner drilled 2 3” holes near the top of the beam. Im gutting the garage so i am going to replace the mess while its opened. I gutted the house when i bought it so there is no plumbing running through these bays. Upstairs power goes across the top plate and this beam stops at the wall (doesnt go into the exterior load bearing wall). Im not looking for a flat ceiling. Just looking for ideas on how others dealt with the exposed beam and how they organized the garage in a similiar setup.

 

[mike93lx]

Thats what i thought but every single joist is 7” even. Not one of them is 7 1/4”. Maybe the 2x8s were 7 even when the house was built

Using a 2x8 for a floor signals an inexpensive build, so using cheaper lumber that may be on the low end of a sizing range may be the case. They should have been kiln dried, but may have shrunk more after that.

This will be a LOT of work to gain a few inches off the exposed depth of a beam. How about metal on the sides of what is there now? Might ask the engineer about that. There’s nothing you’re gonna do that’s gonna get you a perfectly flat ceiling.

I assume that this is being done more for the post than the ceiling height

 

[PCustoms]

Previous owner drilled 2 3” holes near the top of the beam. Im gutting the garage so i am going to replace the mess while its opened. I gutted the house when i bought it so there is no plumbing running through these bays. Upstairs power goes across the top plate and this beam stops at the wall (doesnt go into the exterior load bearing wall). Im not looking for a flat ceiling. Just looking for ideas on how others dealt with the exposed beam and how they organized the garage in a similiar setup.

As horrendous as that looks, might not be an actual issue

 

[BobnCO]

Thats what i thought but every single joist is 7” even. Not one of them is 7 1/4”. Maybe the 2x8s were 7 even when the house was built

Shrinkage.. not that uncommon for a 2x8.. ive seen many 7 1/8” and a few 7”

 

[jkuro]

A steel I beam would get you the most head room. It may also be cheaper than an LVL with a flitch plate.

 

[matt_i]

So do you also have to source a 1/2" x 19' x 11-1/4" piece of steel flat bar to integrate between the LVLs? What is the fastening (cross-bolting) schedule? (how many holes total in the steel?) Hopefully you have a good way to drill all of those holes, hand-held drilling would take awhile, a drill press better and ironworker the best to punch them.

I believe I would have pushed for a 3 ply LVL, all-wood, solution to avoid the pain of having to integrate steel and wood. It would be one thing if you were getting an I-beam which had some extra point-load capacity for overhead lifting, but for simple support structure the wood is so much easier to fabricate...