Ratchet mechanisms: How they work

[bad_religion_au]

Hey guys,
It looks like Stanley figured out they had a problem with auto rev. What was done is put detent balls and detents in the cover plate. This is a new 3/8" that is in the stanley tool box I posted about a couple days ago. The 1/4" is exactly the same, but the balls are smaller.

those detent balls are the same as on my 1/2 inch one, and greasing them resulted in the same auto reverse problem. flushed the ratch, and lubed with lighter oil, and it seems fine now

 

[Scout Driver]

Very cool thread!! Lots of great info here.

Scott

 

[sberry]

I don't know what brand these bottom 2 are but bought them over the counter at parts store and I don't know how they work as I never needed to service one. As I recall they were not inexpensive, back in the day maybe 15 or so but the teeth are fine and smooth, very strong and the handles are still good. I must have been desperate at the time or something but they are stars. The NAPA pos above is another matter, from day one didn't work, jobber gave a hassle about repairs, finally sold out and I had it replaced by new dealer, bought it 20 yrs ago when needed and really haven't got 20 mins of good use, even the replacement isn't much to write home about, certainly a glorified Craftsman at 3 x the price.
Getting a little older helps, I am more willing to get right tool vs muscle it off with too small wrench. 3/8 last a lot longer, having powered tools also makes a hand ratchet last.
I buy some used on occasion, 1/2 usually, not hard to find a good one not all worn out for 10$, 3/8 have had it usually and not worth scrap. Same with 1/4.

 

[sberry]

I don't have much use for a 100$ ratchet especially these days. There probably was a time and place for it, still is to some extent or they wouldn't keep making them but common hand tools have always been a commodity to me. I got maybe 20, maybe a couple dozen ratchets in service, lots of them not used daily but they are where they are needed when they needed. Between finding, being given, sales, etc probably 300$ in all of them, all sufficient to the work at any time. I imagine SK fines are rather rare at markets, people like me that have a couple probably keep them a long time.

 

[bonneyman]

Hey guys,
It looks like Stanley figured out they had a problem with auto rev. What was done is put detent balls and detents in the cover plate. This is a new 3/8" that is in the stanley tool box I posted about a couple days ago. The 1/4" is exactly the same, but the balls are smaller.

Chuck

Nice views! Really puts a pointer on the problem.
My 1/4" (on page 1) didn't have a screwed-on oval cover. A spiral flat spring held the gear in, and, when you pulled it out, the switch mecahnism was buried in the bottom of the tear drop. I tried prying lightly, but it was plastic, and started to bend. Figured I better just soak-and-sell. Then it started the auto-reverse thing, and I stripped it for the parts.
I think I may try sticking that gear into another ratchet by trial and error and see if I can get a working tool out of it. I like it's BIG QR button!
Great pictures, folks. Keep 'em coming.

 

[70chevellegsp]

OK - I opened up my Stanley Full Free Floating Pawl, cut the spring, lubed it up, and it still auto reverses. Any suggestions?

I dug into the ratchet a little deeper last nite. The auto reversing was due to the F/R lever not having enough pressure to keep it to the left or right. So I removed the lever and the sheet metal spring in front. I bent the ears of the sheet metal a little more, replaced and tested and the the lever was solid in both positions. Lubed with 3 in 1 and re-assembled and it works flawlessly. The best part is that Stanley warranted the ratchet, didn't ask for this one back, and sent me 2 others to replace this one and now they all work! Thanks for the info, I hate throwing tools away.

 

[bonneyman]

A FACOM sliding pawl ratchet

Not wanting to be remiss in my duties I post the following pics of a FACOM 3/8" rat I bought today. Sliding pawl design like the S-K TUFF 1 and Craftsman Tri-Prop rats.


This has got to be one of the smoothest ratchets I've ever turned. And the thickness of the head is astounding! Nice feel to the handle, thin and compact overall - a class A ratchet!

 

[diesel research]

The first time I took apart my sk facom palm control ratchet similar to the one above, I played hell trying to get everything to line up just right and get the heart shaped spring around that pin.

 

[kc-steve]

Great thread Bonneyman! I have a fondness for S-K as well.

But I was wondering if anyone knows what tool is used to open up the newer models. It looks like an odd sized Torx or something similar. I have no idea really.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[bonneyman]

Glad you like the thread, KC!
It is a Torx bit in the FACOM. Don't know offhand what size.
I have this red rubber bit set I bought from Ace Hardware that has like 30-40 bits of every type for work, simply because I can't afford to run into a fastener on the job that I can't get off. Whenever I need a Torx bit, I grab that set. And it had the correct size in it. So, I'd say it's not too rare.

 

[bonneyman]

The first time I took apart my sk facom palm control ratchet similar to the one above, I played hell trying to get everything to line up just right and get the heart shaped spring around that pin.

I wondered what mechanism was in the palm rat.
Yeah, putting those together is a bit of a test. Especially if the pin is worn - the spring wants to slip off real easily. Good thing about it, one can drill out the pin and replace it with a new one if a rebuild kit is not handy.
I'm always considering that eventuality - can a particular tool be fixed in the DIYer shop in a pinch.

 

[glenmore]

Here is my 54 tooth Proto ratchet that I just bought at a garage sale. I was able to buy a kit at a local Grainger. They are closing them out at $7 so they may not support this ratchet much longer.

Second pic is the kit on the left and a Matco 88 kit on the right.

 

[diesel research]

I wondered what mechanism was in the palm rat.
Yeah, putting those together is a bit of a test. Especially if the pin is worn - the spring wants to slip off real easily. Good thing about it, one can drill out the pin and replace it with a new one if a rebuild kit is not handy.
I'm always considering that eventuality - can a particular tool be fixed in the DIYer shop in a pinch.

The SK is pretty much identical to your FACOM shown above, since it was from the era where SK and facom were together. Haven't really had a chance to enjoy it, so it is practically new. It has just been sitting unused. As a matter of fact, I was happy when I found out it was a fine-tooth ratchet last week, even though I have had it for almost 3 years.

Also found out by doing a search, why it had seized up when I put it back together. All the way tight is a no-no. Backed off 1/4 turn is much better. Thanks to monte. As a matter of fact, I also had to do a search on how to put it back together, and used a FACOM instruction sheet from this site.

 

[bonneyman]

This FACOM is turning out to be such a nice ratchet, I may have to start searching for it's 1/4" relative.

 

[bad_religion_au]

Re: A FACOM sliding pawl ratchet

Not wanting to be remiss in my duties I post the following pics of a FACOM 3/8" rat I bought today. Sliding pawl design like the S-K TUFF 1 and Craftsman Tri-Prop rats.

This has got to be one of the smoothest ratchets I've ever turned. And the thickness of the head is astounding! Nice feel to the handle, thin and compact overall - a class A ratchet!

which lube did you use for that? i used some 3 in 1 and wasn't very impressed.

 

[bonneyman]

The literature sheet on their website specifies oil, but not what grade/type/etc.
On this type of rat mechanism I use white lithium grease. I know, I know - grease has a "stickiness" that can play havoc with low tension springs on ratchets. But WL is so thin a grease I find it doesn't mess up the action, yet stays in place better than oil.

 

[hofferwood]

This is a 1/2" sparta cs-45, New Britain, Napa low cost
Same as 48548 showed on page 3, but here's how it goes together. I had to clean and lube, so why not share

All the parts (note one leg a smidge longer on the hair spring)

This is a 45 tooth action

Pawl spring in the body

Pawl in relative place

Hairspring in pawl movement plate

Selector plate mounted on pawl mov. plate (note spring legs thru holes, long leg to the inside)

E-clip ready to pop on (no lube for photo clarity)

Lubed and ready to go

The lube I use

Head size comparison, Sk 42470,Sparta, Cman 44985, Cman 44809

Chuck

 

[mofo62]

.


Much thanks for information bonneyman


ah Great Pictures...

V!

 

[bonneyman]

Dang, hoffer. That Sparta has one tiny head for it's drive size!

 

[moronmountain]

Re: Do you need a Craftsman ratchet?

Collectible? Really?

I've got a long handle 3/8" flex. It's a QR with a double crescent selector and an oil port. It's a V series with a patent number but no model number. 24 teeth. The unique thing I like about it is the QR feature doesn't just retract the ball from the detent, it also extends a pin to pop the socket off. Haven't seen any other ratchets with that style QR.

Snap-on QR ratchets are like that.

 

[bonneyman]

The older C-man rats had the detent pin come out of the end of the drive knuckle. The newer style repalcement kits don't do that. Now, when they changed the design of the QR's on C-man rats I don't know.
I do know the RHFT (as well as the LLTD's) both have this change.

 

[bonneyman]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the posters for their pics and comments, as well as the viewers. We've topped 100 posts, and over 4500 views. Guess the info is worthwhile.
Thanks!

 

[caper]

I haven't been around for awhile so I missed this thread.Here's a design I haven't seen in the thread.Walden dual sliding pawls,round head.Probably some other odd ball designs in the collection but I don't have pics at the moment.

 

[caper]

Just found some pics of this old Bon-E-Con round head as well,might as well post em I guess.

 

[bonneyman]

Thanks, Caper. Always could use new ratchet pictures.

I have a Walden ractheting adaptor that has the same mechanism. Very stout square pawls - very tough! The chrome was bad so I turned it into a "palm" ratchet for those tough jobs.

 

[bursty]

Re: Do you need a Craftsman ratchet?

Collectible? Really?

I've got a long handle 3/8" flex. It's a QR with a double crescent selector and an oil port. It's a V series with a patent number but no model number. 24 teeth. The unique thing I like about it is the QR feature doesn't just retract the ball from the detent, it also extends a pin to pop the socket off. Haven't seen any other ratchets with that style QR.

I was sorting through my box today and realized I have two of these. Never knew it

1/2 drive with "OIL" stamped by the port and also a 1/4 drive

And the 1/4 drive

Is there anyway to figure out a manufacture date? Is that what the 1967 is on the handle?

 

[ggoss]

I know this is an older thread, but any chance we can get a re-up of the original photos?

 

[gemnewt]

Hello Everyone
I found an Indestro 3/8 Drive #6272 Ratchet in the wheel well of my 51 Chevy wagon when I bought it, well the selector lever wouldn't stay put in either right or left position so removed the two screws and removed the cover plate and out popped the spring. I was expecting to see a small ball bearing but I didn't see one.
Is there suppose to be one? and where does the spring go? This is the first Indestro ratchet I've owned. Does someone have a pic or a patent drawing. I checked Alloy Artifacts but didn't come up with anything, would you help an old guy (newbie) out. Thanks in advance.
Gene

 

[PowderKeg]

Yep, there should be ball bearing that sits on top of the spring and underneath the pawl - there's a hole/shaft under the pawl that holds the spring and bearing. They function to hold the pawl to one side or the other and to allow the pawl to rebound slightly as the gear is rotated back to ratchet. No ball = no hold = no ratchet action, as you've found out.

Sounds like maybe your ratchet's pawl and lever developed enough slop to allow the ball to pop out from underneath the pawl when the cover was removed at one time.

 

[gemnewt]

Thank you for responding. I have the spring, could the ball bearing still be under the pawl?
How do you remove the Pawl from the lever?

 

[PowderKeg]

Thank you for responding. I have the spring, could the ball bearing still be under the pawl?
How do you remove the Pawl from the lever?

Not too likely, since the ball has to come out to remove the spring. You have to pry/remove the lever off the peened-over end of the pawl and still leave enough to re-peen it back on while you replace (and hold in) the ball, spring, and pawl. IMHO much easier on most other ratchets with a similar pawl setup but use a spring clip or such to hold the lever on/in the pawl (like Craftsman teardrop ratchets made by Moore Drop Forge/Easco/Danaher).

Honestly, I've been fortunate enough to not find one that I had to remove and re-install the pawl (everything still in place). You might be able to find a ball bearing at a hardware store - get several, 'cause you might launch a few trying to hold it all together. Ball can't be larger in diameter than the shaft it rides in, or too small to fall down inside the spring it sits on.

May be easiest to replace the ball, spring, pawl, and gear, then jam and screw the cover back on to hold it all in place, then turn it over to re-peen the lever back on.

Older thread with a pic at the bottom of what the internals should look like with the ball in place under the pawl:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198880

Good luck!

 

[Quercus]

Great thread--I was inspired to take apart, inspect, clean and lube all my ratchets tonight. Would love to see the old photos too, if possible.

 

[gemnewt]

Well I took apart the Indestro 3/8 Drive #6272 Ratchet. I was able to wiggle the selector lever off then I removed the pawl and low and behold there was nothing there. I did see a small hole in the side that has the handle and guess what I found, the ball bearing.
Now PowderKeg said the ball bearing sits on top of the spring. I think it would be almost impossible for the ball bearing to come out then the spring and then the ball bearing to jump back in the hole. So here's what I think, someone maybe the previous owner took the ratchet apart, inserted the ball bearing and then the spring, then put the pawl back in and tried to attach the selector lever and then came to the realization that his endeavors had failed so he took that ratchet and threw it as far as he could landing in the back of my wagon. Well the ratchet is all back together and it operates so smoothly.
I want to thank you PowderKeg for your expert advice. I have always used Lubriplate to grease my ratchets and they work fine. Is there an alternative or something that's better?

 

[PowderKeg]

... So here's what I think, someone maybe the previous owner took the ratchet apart, inserted the ball bearing and then the spring, then put the pawl back in and tried to attach the selector lever and then came to the realization that his endeavors had failed so he took that ratchet and threw it as far as he could landing in the back of my wagon...

I want to thank you PowderKeg for your expert advice. I have always used Lubriplate to grease my ratchets and they work fine. Is there an alternative or something that's better?

I'd say that's a darn accurate summation of the events preceding your find

As far as lube, Lubriplate is a real good'un, recommended by many. I've been using NAPA Sil-Glyde (aerosol can), mostly because I hate pulling round head ratchets completely apart, and the aerosol will blast the lube/carrier around and through the guts/pawls. Not sure what the long-term results will be, but it definitely doesn't bleed out and hasn't shown any signs of drying out/solidifying yet.

Glad it all worked out!