Ratchet / Socket play! Is this acceptable?

[Dave455]

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Dave, what about the European brands - like Facom, USAG? Are they still made in Europe? Are they any good? Are they expensive?

For DakotaDadv8: These guys are in Europe. Their version of Home Depot is called B&Q (DIY.CO.UK) and its got equally crappy tools in it. The OP could have purchased BAHCO tools which are a good step up from Kobalt etc, in their version of Pep Boys, or Advance Auto called Halfords. Halford's are pretty nice stores, may have camping supplies, bicycles, and better quality tools.

I get the surprise about BAHCO tools. Along with SANDVIK, BAHCO is a 19th c company that made VERY fine steel and very fine tools and equipment. I would say BAHCO is like Stanley for us. Once great, then maybe got too big and quality got pushed aside. Stanley seems to be trying to claw their way back in with some decent quality tools (Sweet heart chisels etc). Lets hope BAHCO can similarly recover their past glory.

Both Facom and USAG are owned by SBD.

Much of Facom’s line is now produced in Taiwan, although some is made in France, and some in Italy in the USAG factory.

When Facom started outsourcing I expected the worst, but unusually, many of the outsourced patterns remained identical to the French ones, and the quality remained relatively high.

USAG pretty much share lines with Facom now. Some tools are unique to one or other Brand, ditto some of the finishes.

Price wise, Facom is fairly competitive in the U.K. Compare the prices of these 10mm wrenches from Facom and Snap On.


Fit wise, you might think from the style, that Facom are going to be a little sloppy. However, that’s the design they make, and always have. The French tools were absolutely identical.


Crucially however, the sockets are machined with sharp corners, and with recesses to match the extensions. The matching of the locking ball and detent is spot on too, so there is little to no slop on this socket and extension, and the socket to ratchet fit is better still.



I would say the fit is better than the Stahlwille, close to comparable with the Hazet.

You are dead right about B & Q, and a whole load of equally crappy (or worse) DIY shops. The cheaper Bahco socket sets seem to be sold largely through these shops, and they’re not particularly cheap, or good value.

We seldom see the better grade of sets, such as Nuno Silva posted!

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

If you’re aiming for a quick fix by just buying a ratchet Koken would be my choice. I have a few different ones across multiple designs (both round and pear head) and don’t have any Koken sockets. For my mismatched wide variety of socket brands the Koken ratchets fit exceptionally with no play on 95% of them. The one thing I’d say is that on my one z-series ratchet some socket brands actually rub against the face plate because the ratchet holds them so tight- but not badly and not enough for me to consider it a problem.

 

[Nuno Silva]

Hello,

I deeply enjoyed this thread. Learned a lot from your experience and comments and I just hope I had read a thread like this before buying the sets.

Like I mentioned I did get my hands on a Bahco 7825MHP 1/2 drive. I was expecting a Made in Spain set but this one came labelled as Made in China.

Plastic case and internal foam exactly like the 1/4 drive Made in Taiwan. But the finish is not polished, it's satin, like the cheap sets and there are a few more cosmetic blemishes but I honestly prefer the satin finish and I can't find any major fault.

Sockets are well finish, as good as the Taiwan set.

The Ratchet is heavy and feels good on the hand. The mechanism feels smooth enough and came greased.

The play... well it's not as dramatic as the 1/4 set but, as expected, it is there.

Conclusions: I can't justify the dramatic increase in price for these sets over the entry-level ones. Sure they have foam and a bigger case (who cares?) but aside from the repairability of the ratches, I don't think they offer much more than the cheap ones. And they are made in the exact same place.

Will I switch to Koken or Hazet? Not really. I can't justify discarding these tools, despite everything they are incredibly well made for the price I actually paid and they will probably last me a lifetime. But one day I will buy another set, maybe a 3/8 drive, and because of this thread I know exactly what I'm going to buy, and it's not Bahco, never again. Not because they are not good tools, or usable, but because personally I value a good fitting above most things.

 

[Nuno Silva]

If you’re aiming for a quick fix by just buying a ratchet Koken would be my choice. I have a few different ones across multiple designs (both round and pear head) and don’t have any Koken sockets. For my mismatched wide variety of socket brands the Koken ratchets fit exceptionally with no play on 95% of them. The one thing I’d say is that on my one z-series ratchet some socket brands actually rub against the face plate because the ratchet holds them so tight- but not badly and not enough for me to consider it a problem.

That's good to know, I wonder if you tried it with any Bahco sockets?

 

[Dave455]

Hello,

I deeply enjoyed this thread. Learned a lot from your experience and comments and I just hope I had read a thread like this before buying the sets.

Like I mentioned I did get my hands on a Bahco 7825MHP 1/2 drive. I was expecting a Made in Spain set but this one came labelled as Made in China.

Plastic case and internal foam exactly like the 1/4 drive Made in Taiwan. But the finish is not polished, it's satin, like the cheap sets and there are a few more cosmetic blemishes but I honestly prefer the satin finish and I can't find any major fault.

Sockets are well finish, as good as the Taiwan set.

The Ratchet is heavy and feels good on the hand. The mechanism feels smooth enough and came greased.

The play... well it's not as dramatic as the 1/4 set but, as expected, it is there.

Conclusions: I can't justify the dramatic increase in price for these sets over the entry-level ones. Sure they have foam and a bigger case (who cares?) but aside from the repairability of the ratches, I don't think they offer much more than the cheap ones. And they are made in the exact same place.

Will I switch to Koken or Hazet? Not really. I can't justify discarding these tools, despite everything they are incredibly well made for the price I actually paid and they will probably last me a lifetime. But one day I will buy another set, maybe a 3/8 drive, and because of this thread I know exactly what I'm going to buy, and it's not Bahco, never again. Not because they are not good tools, or usable, but because personally I value a good fitting above most things.

Never be afraid to have different “grades” of tools.

I still have a Taiwanese socket set I was given 30 plus years ago - an era when Taiwanese tools were not as good as today.

Although I have much better tools now, I still have a use for that set. I wouldn’t want to use my best tools to disassemble a shed, or change a mower blade, so it’s useful. It also has Metric and SAE sockets, shallow and deep, all in the same box, which is also handy.

Once you have the taste for better tools, you will probably acquire some, but what you have will never be wasted. You will probably find them decent enough for many jobs.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

I don’t have any Bahco sockets unfortunately. I do have Williams and Blue Point which are also made for Snap On in Taiwan but I did some googling and wasn’t able to find any info on whether these were made in the same factory/to the same functional specs as Bahco sockets. Here are photos of the fit between the Williams and Blue Point sockets and Koken ratchet I have at home (holiday today in the USA so don’t have access to work stuff)