rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

[rattle_snake]

Got some time to putter on the truck. Removed the front suspension and cut out the 2wd front cross member. I figured it would be a PITA, and it was. Many have done this for CV swaps. Rivets and welds sucked but various tools of destruction including air chisel got them out. Cleaned out the remaining goop and put a little paint on.
No turning back now.

 

[C91x]

Are the frames from 2wd to 4wd the same or does the 4wd have more rise above the axle?

 

[slodat]

Talk about a clean, bare canvas! Keep up the good work, Justin!

 

[nsula_country]

Are the frames from 2wd to 4wd the same or does the 4wd have more rise above the axle?

I have been told the 2WD frame is wider between the rails than 4WD frame. Hence why 2WD had rear between frame fuel tank and 4WD remained behind the seat until 77.

CT

 

[rattle_snake]

Talk about a clean, bare canvas! Keep up the good work, Justin!

That's the plan, don't have to compromise or work around anything. As opposed to 'Picking up where the last guy left off'

I have been told the 2WD frame is wider between the rails than 4WD frame. Hence why 2WD had rear between frame fuel tank and 4WD remained behind the seat until 77.

CT

The 67-72 F250 2WD and 4wd frames are different. Most differences are on the front half for the different suspension. Cross members and engine mounts are different. The width is the same at 32".

In 73 the rear half of the frame was widened, except for the 250 4WD 'highboys', which remained at 32" until 77.5 when the that model was updated and switched to a married transfer case.
The aux fuel inside frame is not on 4x4 models as it sits too far forward and occupies the same space as the transfer case.

Since I planned on a clean slate design, a 4WD frame wasn't going to help.

 

[rattle_snake]

After some more investigation the suspension issues with my '14 250 appeared to be steering related. I inspected as Mrs. rattle_snake wiggled the wheel and it was apparent that the drag link was done on both ends. The Bistien 5100 steering stabilizer was also shot, and had puked all it's oil out. Guessing the slop in drag link caused steering shimmy and overheated stabilizer.
Got the new parts installed but need to test drive to feel the results, and center steering wheel.

Side bar: I think 'tie rod' and 'drag link' would be good pet names.

Side bar #2: Now, some of you must be wondering why I didn't just install a Rancho dual steering stabilizer. It doesn't work for death wobble, so why not use the same ineffective band-aid on worn out steering linkage?

 

[rattle_snake]

Heard back on the 460 rod debacle. All the old rods were crooked as a politician, and were also the passenger car type. The engine was from a van, and should have had 'truck' rods. The NOS double dimple rods couldn't be used due to too much weight difference, so a set of used truck rods were recon'd and will still be a step up in strength. So glad I was patient and spent the $ to get them replaced. They are on the way and I should have them back in the motor soon. This will allow me to button it up enough to test fit in chassis.

 

[rattle_snake]

The new drag link on the '14 F-250 seems to have solved most of the suspension issues. Still have a little bump steer so inspected again. With my hand on the track bar while someone else turning wheel, I can feel a slight clunk and see some movement in the chassis side 1" heim joint.
Precision metal fab had upgraded the heim on the product sometime after I bought mine, so I ordered a new FK heim and misalignment spacers from PFM.
Have a trip to Powell coming up so want to get it replaced before I drag my boat with it for 12 hours.

 

[nsula_country]

GM HD trucks don't have "Death Wobble" and the other associated solid axle issues. They don't even need a steering stabilizer! 111k on the 2013 Denali HD (6.0L) and the front end hasn't even needed aligned. Though the OE shocks gave up, Bilsteins replaced AC Delco.



Just not as easy to "lift" if your into that sort of thing. I like my tailgate at the stock 4ft mark!



Glad you found the slack. The Super Dutys are not tolerant to ANY slack in the front suspension.

Friend has a 2017-2018 F-250 4x4 gasser. It's been in the shop multiple times under warranty. Less than 40k miles and it has had at least 2 sets of tie rods, pitman, idler, ect. Ford omitted the steering stabilizer for a year or 2 on the lower trim trucks. Many are coming back with severe "Death Wobble". 2019 Ford brought the steering stabilizer back to all solid axle trucks.

Dealer suggested buying an aftermarket stabilizer. His response was, buy this truck back and I'll buy one with a stabilizer. Ended up the best "fix" was to ditch the OE tires and install BF AT's. They were horribly out of round.

CT

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I've now officially read it all on the internet.....

 

[rattle_snake]

The stabilizer reduces NHV on all types of suspensions.
Funny how most dealers cannot fix the wobble because they don't understand the nuances of the issue. Many owners don't either, and often spend a bunch of $ on band-aids then sell due to frustration. The 'leveling' kits that remove all the caster don't help either.

But yes a RA style front end needs to be tight to perform properly, also noted by TTMotorsports a few posts back.

In you friends case the tires induced the oscillation that is then sustained by rest of the system in resonant. Extra credit for providing the equation of this

I've now officially read it all on the internet.....

Funny how the first page of the Chevy section on pirate is almost all SAS's.

 

[rattle_snake]

Resumed butchering of my 60 to mount link brackets.
Cut off half the leaf spring perch to make room.


Cut out another section to allow the bracket to be welded to the tube, and not to the cast housing. Then preheated and welded the corners to further prevent rotation since I cut out one plug weld.
After removing half a plug weld, I see how poorly the cast and weld adhered to one another, and how a 'plug' really only works well in compression and not tension.


The resulting trough


Tacked the brackets together and then onto the housing. Set initial caster at 5*, which yields pinion up 4*

I went with flat bottom brackets to put axle mounts up higher to limit the radius arm angle. At ride height the angel is 12*. The arms will be about 43" long to minimize resultant rotation at axle to allow better flex and reduced caster change.

 

[rattle_snake]

Got the new 1" hiem installed on the track bar. Given it's just one bolt it should be easy... 369lbft. Anyhow, once the bar was off it was clear the ball was slightly loose and time to replace. The new joint cleared up what was left of bump steer on the minor road irregularities and gives a more solid feel.
I hit the deviant RR track crossing at 50 mph and all bounce and wobble is gone. The truck drives better than ever.

I kind of bothers me that I neglected the $hock$ and didn't notice the steering issue until it was as bad as it was. In my 20's with 2 vehicles I kept everything tip top and clean. Now with a family and 14 vehicles, bikes & trailers it's a constant effort to keep everything maintained between other activities. 1st world problems I guess, so can't really complain.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

I hear you on staying on top of stuff! Never ending battle. Glad you got it figured out.

 

[zmotorsports]

In my 20's with 2 vehicles I kept everything tip top and clean. Now with a family and 14 vehicles, bikes & trailers it's a constant effort to keep everything maintained between other activities. 1st world problems I guess, so can't really complain.

I hear ya Justin. I used to keep everything tip top, wash everything at least once a week and still had time to wrench at my full-time job and wrench for 4-6 hours a night at my side business. I don't know when the shift came but lately I barely have enough time to keep my own stuff maintained, let alone work on anyone else's stuff.

I don't have anywhere near the amount you do and I still feel like I'm always behind the 8-ball.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Got the new 1" hiem installed on the track bar. Given it's just one bolt it should be easy... 369lbft. Anyhow, once the bar was off it was clear the ball was slightly loose and time to replace. The new joint cleared up what was left of bump steer on the minor road irregularities and gives a more solid feel.
I hit the deviant RR track crossing at 50 mph and all bounce and wobble is gone. The truck drives better than ever.

I kind of bothers me that I neglected the $hock$ and didn't notice the steering issue until it was as bad as it was. In my 20's with 2 vehicles I kept everything tip top and clean. Now with a family and 14 vehicles, bikes & trailers it's a constant effort to keep everything maintained between other activities. 1st world problems I guess, so can't really complain.

We had the same thing happen with my friend's Dodge with a Carli heim mounted track bar. Heims don't last nearly as long as regular bushing setup, but they are great when they are tight.

I'm in the more non-running than running vehicle camp, so I know what you're saying. The front end of my truck needs a lot of work, but I've been putting it off until the weather cools. It's actually kinda scary at this point. We always joke about how the race cars are fixed first, the trucks are fixed when they break, and trailers are always in a state of disrepair.

 

[TTMotorsports]

It's crazy how many trophy trucks are getting hauled around on pile of **** trailers. 300k truck. 2k trailer.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

It's crazy how many trophy trucks are getting hauled around on pile of **** trailers. 300k truck. 2k trailer.

We were totally those guys when we were racing Class 1. I remember showing up for a race and they had a Class 1 on my buggy trailer with bias ply tires behind an F150....... Luckily when our team bought a truck we got a Yiro (super badass) and an equipment trailer for when we run two cars.

I know a factory Polaris driver that hauls his race car on a single axle Home Depot flat bed. Crazy.

 

[wasfast]

It's crazy how many trophy trucks are getting hauled around on pile of **** trailers. 300k truck. 2k trailer.

The reverse, according to my dragster racing buddy. "You don't race the trailer"

 

[rattle_snake]

Glad I completed front end work before my trip to lake Powell. The 50 mile stretch north of the little Colorado river is a nasty mofo, along with I-17 south of Flag. I cranked up the rear shock compression 1/2 way and the truck stayed level over the hump and bumps. A huge difference really, compared to clapped out old shocks. The hitch/tongue stays level instead of going like this /\, \/ on every bump. Would not have been able to do speed limit with worn drag link. Still need 2 hands on the wheel to keep 8 tons in it's lane at 75.

Also glad I put brakes on 2nd trailer axle. Some fuckwits pulled out in front of us while doing 50. While holding brake pedal to floor bracing for impact, my wife suggested I honk the horn...
Trailer axles locked up and made a nice smoke show, didn't crash. The trailer is making some new horrible noises but appears to operate properly.

1st lake day was 25+ winds all day, 2-3' white cap chop. No fun, so stayed local. 2nd day was calmer, but I was still concerned about travelling 50+ miles up the lake without another boat along in case of problems. Packed extra water and food for such an event, however the place where the engine quit has no beach for miles (just vertical rock walls), so **** got serious quick. Had about 5 min to fix before being blown into the rocks. I was able to whip out volt meter and diagnose a blown fuse to ignition. But new fuse only lasted a minute or so. Intermittent short circuit could be seen on dash volt meter. Used all the larger amp fuses including those from other circuits to get to isolated marina a few miles away. Suspect alternator, but couldn't find any obvious issues. Measured current draws but since issue is intermittent couldn't reproduce at dock. So decided to play it safe with wife and kids aboard, and get a 40 mile tow back to civilization. I calculated needing 80 fuses or hardwire and deal with eventual resulting fire.
Interestingly, we got towed at about 30mph and it took 2 hours instead of 8 or more. Tow boat has a pair of 225hp 'Zuks, and was enough to get up on plane with 200' of low stretch poly rope. Never got to ski, board or 'chair, but we made it back safe. I've been in more dangerous and fucked-up situations far out at sea, but that was before a family.

Any boat with only a single engine has a 'single point of failure' scenario. I've worked on nuclear safety systems and had to determine all the failure modes of the electronic systems. So this is what goes through my mind instead of arrogant bliss out on the lake. Really need a twin engine craft for this type of lake or ocean. A 24-26' cat with twin 496 MAG HO's would be nice, but nobody but me wants to go more than 50 mph, let alone 80+.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Bummer on the malfunction Justin. Glad the pickup performed better though. I've been in the "pulled out in front of scenario" multiple times including while driving a semi grossing 80k+ lbs....sometimes I wish I was less of a human and laid off the brake.

 

[BIGBAUM83]

Any boat with only a single engine has a 'single point of failure' scenario. I've worked on nuclear safety systems and had to determine all the failure modes of the electronic systems. So this is what goes through my mind instead of arrogant bliss out on the lake. Really need a twin engine craft for this type of lake or ocean. A 24-26' cat with twin 496 MAG HO's would be nice, but nobody but me wants to go more than 50 mph, let alone 80+.

The twin engine Yamaha jet boats are on the top of my list for this exact reason, especially when on the Missouri river.

 

[jjeffries]

Sobering situation. I appreciate your observation about others being in blissful ignorance while those of us who understand more are always thinking "what if?". John/CT

 

[C91x]

Glad I completed front end work before my trip to lake Powell. The 50 mile stretch north of the little Colorado river is a nasty mofo, along with I-17 south of Flag. I

That whole 89 north of Flagstaff is ridiculous. Every time I take my toy hauler down that road i'm sure everything in it has come loose but so far i've been lucky.

 

[zmotorsports]

That whole 89 north of Flagstaff is ridiculous. Every time I take my toy hauler down that road i'm sure everything in it has come loose but so far i've been lucky.

Agreed. That section of 89 north of Flagstaff is a joke. I was hoping it would be fixed by now as I want to make a trip down to Sedona and do some Jeeping in the spring but it sounds like it is still ugly.

 

[rattle_snake]

That whole 89 north of Flagstaff is ridiculous. Every time I take my toy hauler down that road i'm sure everything in it has come loose but so far i've been lucky.

Agreed. That section of 89 north of Flagstaff is a joke. I was hoping it would be fixed by now as I want to make a trip down to Sedona and do some Jeeping in the spring but it sounds like it is still ugly.

Interestingly they have re-sealed most all of the northern part. So the wavy lumpy pavement has a nice look to it.


'They' did fix the horrific road to canyon lake. The pavement heat expansion was like driving on rail road tracks. Gave up taking motorcycle there at all, but now it's re-done and smooth. Still 20 miles of 25 mph curves.

 

[rattle_snake]

Cam fits too tight in 460 so stuck again on it. Made some progress on the chassis. Filled in a bunch of holes, got x-member & towers tacked in and braces made. Since I had a few hours of welding to do I actually put on pants to protect myself, and turned A/C down to compensate. The new welder outlet worked out very nice. Still getting used to having a nice shop with all the tools I need. I guess having to do things the hard way for so long makes one appreciate the finer things in life.

Noticed the brake light was on in the Cobra. It's view is blocked by my AFR gauge, so don't know how long it was on. Fluid was low, and after neglect on my truck brakes I went ahead and removed all the wheels and put on lift for full inspection. Didn't find anything wrong other than missing wheel weight that is causing vibration issue.
I've had the LF wheel making an annoying noise since I did last brake job years ago. I had the rotors turned and they didn't cut far enough into center. Causes the pad to hit the lip and clunk on every rotation. I've tried to fix many times, but I think I finally got it solved. Shaved the pads a bit more in an area i had missed.
Also looked at addressing the squeaky throw out bearing. I run an aftermarket pedal quadrant, adjustable cable, and an adjustable pivot to a dual disk McLeod clutch. Ford preloads the TOB to spin at all times. Others including myself like to be able to set the pedal engagement point which requires not preloading the TOB (aka put in desired slack). I built a spring loaded return mechanism but it's finicky and allows the TOB to just touch the fingers and squeak. Decide to abandon and crank down the cable adjuster to keep it quiet.
Now the belt chirps

Front tires have jan 2011 date code so need to be put down. Going to get new rubber on spare stock wheels and burn the rest of these old tires off, for saftey's sake

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Still getting used to having a nice shop with all the tools I need. I guess having to do things the hard way for so long makes one appreciate the finer things in life.


Also looked at addressing the squeaky throw out bearing. [/IMG]

Agreed on the tools and nice shop. The muffler swap I did on the F150 took my about 30-40min without the lift.


Also the wife's Mach 1 has the same squeek/chirp of the TOB. Noticed when I put slight pressure on it, the noise goes away.



No bueno on the cam. Bearing issue or cam grind issue?

 

[rattle_snake]

Also the wife's Mach 1 has the same squeek/chirp of the TOB. Noticed when I put slight pressure on it, the noise goes away.

No bueno on the cam. Bearing issue or cam grind issue?

The Mach has an auto cable tensioner. Lift up on the pedal to reset/tighten it. It's plastic and can break, leaving pedal loose, noise.

Suspect bearing issue. Journals measure OK, old cam does go in and turn though. New one hangs up on bearing #4 and gets too tight to turn when all the way in. Not uncommon. Contemplating cutting grooves in old one to make it a hone.
What could go wrong?

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into that!

Just get out your 4lb persuader and give it some "love taps"

 

[TTMotorsports]

The Mach has an auto cable tensioner. Lift up on the pedal to reset/tighten it. It's plastic and can break, leaving pedal loose, noise.



Suspect bearing issue. Journals measure OK, old cam does go in and turn though. New one hangs up on bearing #4 and gets too tight to turn when all the way in. Not uncommon. Contemplating cutting grooves in old one to make it a hone.

What could go wrong?

Are they new bearings. Did they put a nice chamfered on the edges before installing. I've installed cam bearings on ls motors and had them tight and machine shop said use a deburring tool to deburr the edge of bearing they will roll slightly and make a tight spot.

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes, machine shop installed new cam bearing that I supplied. I went ahead and cut an axial groove in the end journal of my old cam shaft to use as a reem/hone. I deburred the edge of the cut radially, maybe too much, with a set of stones.
Old cam fits nice. New one is the same. Once 4 of the 5 journal are in contact it tightens up. At all 5 can't get it fully seated, won't turn at all.
My 460 engine guy (not same as machine shop) said to take cam and get it polished down '3 to a 5th of a thou' (0.0002"-0.0003") by a machine shop. He said they also have a cut cam to hone tight bearings with.

 

[rattle_snake]

Stopped in a a local machine shop and had them 'mic both shafts. The new cam's journals 3 and 4 are 0.001 larger than all the others, and are out of spec. Cam to bearing clearance is only 0.002. Going to have them polish down those 2 and try again. fingers crossed.

 

[nsula_country]

So your cam journal OD was over out of the box?

CT

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes, some journal ODs over spec out of box.
Machine shop ended up polishing down 3 of the 5 to match the OD of the stock cam that fits properly.
Skeptical, I tried the fitment. Better, but still too tight. Goes in but can just barely turn by hand.

Hope to borrow a micrometer tonight and measure everything again myself. Then cut a slot in the remaining 4 journals of the old cam and run it though the bearings again. If that doesn't work, then remove pistons/rods (again) and crank to gain access to cam bore and bearings for inspections and measurements. How hard can this be?

 

[rattle_snake]

Decided it was time to replace the front tires on my Cobra. It had 4 new Nitto 555s when I bought it 8 years ago. Stock with 400hp, they would hook 1st gear and were a good match for the car. After pulley swap up to 550hp/tq they had no hope for traction, so I upgraded to a 17x10.5 wheel and 315/35 NT05 tire (not the 'R' drag radial version). They wouldn't hook 1st or much of 2nd gear either so the following 3 sets have been Mickey Thompson ET streets which perform extremely well even completely bald.

The 2011 date code worried me and I didn't want to run the car down the drag strip at 125 mph on them. Turns out they were down to 4/32 so about done anyhow. I had the new tires mounted on the spare 9" wheels to allow the old as a burnout set, for entertainment purposes. Also checked the IRS spindle nut torque (300ftlb) to verify all is still OK.

The old tires are like driving on ice. Almost not fun at all, and dangerous as hell. They spin with even the gentlest application of throttle, and wheel hop bad under hard acceleration. The car will go sideways instantly even in 3rd gear.

It's interesting how the perception of power is dependent on the traction available. We've all hear stories about how this car or that could light up the tires in whatever condition. These old tires turned my 11 second car into a 15 second car...

 

[PhantomEB]

A whole shitload of power is useless unless it’s put to the ground!

 

[rattle_snake]

A whole shitload of power is useless unless it’s put to the ground!

Yes, very true. That's why everything needs bigger tires.


Picked up some used 40s for the '72. Have some bead damage, hope they don't leak.

Note the guard dog watching my junk pile.

They make the 37s on my '14 look small

 

[OutlawDrifter]

What are you planning for gear ratio?

 

[rattle_snake]

Well, at this time I am planning to leave the 4.10 gears that are in the axles and get it running and driving. Then at some point put in 4.88s and lockers. Maybe do the gear setup myself.
I think 4.88 are the best compromise for the 3 speed trans. With non-lockup converter 65 mph is about 2900 and 75 is 3300. 4.10s yields 2800 at 75 which is nice but getting rolling will suffer.