rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

[harley jim]

Rear wheel location looks a lot better. We got used to looking at the 1970s trucks with a rake from the factory

Sent from my SM-A102U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[cspcrx]

Turned out awesome

 

[PugetDude]

Nice work Justin! You sure you weren't a bodyman in a previous life?

 

[slodat]

I'll say it again.. making it look easy. Great work, Justin!

You, Mike and Matt are slowly making me want to build some sort of 4x4 rig.

 

[C91x]

Looks great. I really like the big tire, "low" ride height look.

I might have missed it but is there a plan to blow it apart for paint once the drivability is where you want it?

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[rattle_snake]

Rear wheel location looks a lot better. We got used to looking at the 1970s trucks with a rake from the factory

Ya I'm not really into the 'bro' look with nose way up. Needs another 1/4 in the rear.

Turned out awesome

Thanks!

Nice work Justin! You sure you weren't a bodyman in a previous life?

No, its clear when I look closely at the result. I'm still at 10' quality.

I'll say it again.. making it look easy. Great work, Justin!
You, Mike and Matt are slowly making me want to build some sort of 4x4 rig.

Good, glad to 'help'. Now you have a lift so it's not as physically difficult. Get the 54 driving like you want and then pick another money pit.

Looks great. I really like the big tire, "low" ride height look.

I might have missed it but is there a plan to blow it apart for paint once the drivability is where you want it?

Yes more or less. Trying to be patient and get a few more major items complete before starting to fill holes.
Since it will get dinged up offroad, plan is to do a simple and basic paint job. Single stage, little or no filler. I did this on a 77 bronco trail rig and it worked well. Could easily fix and touch up if needed.
At this time, back to original lime green so cab, bed, jams and so on don't need to be done. White roof. Keep all the trim except maybe the lower edge.

 

[LXCam]

I expected 7 (city) and maybe 10 best case. .

That shot is money J, you nailed it bud.

As for smiles per mile...........who fn cares.

 

[harley jim]

Merry Christmas Justin

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[Mr.N]

​

Looks awesome.

Front does about half the flex the rear does. 13" difference at rear tires. Lots of shock left.

As for the flex, try backing up the ramp. More weight on the front.

 

[rattle_snake]

That shot is money J, you nailed it bud.

As for smiles per mile...........who fn cares.

Thanks Cam. Its getting there.

Merry Christmas Justin

Thanks you too Jim!

Looks awesome. As for the flex, try backing up the ramp. More weight on the front.

Thanks Mr. N. Problem is I don't have a ramp, these pics are one tire on an irrigation head wall. I did drive around looking for a larger ramp type of thing but didn't find a good one yet. Found a gravel pile I could get tire 3' up or so and it still has flex left.
Another problem is, when driver side is flexed down the fluid spills out of the P/S reservoir.

 

[rattle_snake]

Got the bedside toolbox modified and installed. The relocated front spring hanger for the longer 63" chevy springs interfered with the toolbox so it needed to be chopped up. The metal support brace cleared the hanger so after considering a few options I decided to leave it on and cut out the minimal amount. Patch with metal because, well it's what I have.

Trimmed the patch and left some tabs for reinforcement points. Welded patch right to the support brace. Couple rivets. Quick, easy.

Some satin black Krylon and RTV from inside to seal it up. Ready for installation.

Just barely clears the hanger.

Wrestled it in one least time and secured. Interior volume lost was minimal and still large enough for a 12" drop hitch and tools. Overall turned out OK, glad to not have this **** in the cab anymore.

 

[rattle_snake]

With toolbox done I still had no glovebox, as it is part of the HVAC box. The factory HVAC setup fills the glovebox cavity so I made a quick box out of 24 ga.

Good enough for a temporary setup until HVAC system is rebuilt/restored.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

That worked out good Justin.

Nice work on the filler panel!

 

[zmotorsports]

Great job on the bedside tool compartment mod as well as the glovebox Justin. I remember that bedside toolbox in my wife's grandfather's 1972 Camper Special and thought it was one the best features.

 

[rattle_snake]

Next project was building a fan shroud. I laid out plan onto some 24 ga, top of fan is above shroud, which adds complexity. Fan appeared to be 20" so I made hole 21" for a 1/2" gap. Too big for my press brake so used table edge and random scraps.

After main box was bend up, I test fit and realized steering box interfered. Made a cutout for it then realized the whole thing was too tall. Guess I can't measure that well. Radiator isn't precise or square. Plot thickens.
Made a compass to mark and guide plasma cutter in attempt for a round hole.

The provisions for the hoop exiting the box was a lot of work. I bent the existing flap into the right shape with a curved fold to weld to hoop. I spent more time on this and the other cutout than the rest of the box.

On a pervious vehicle that had engine removed too often, the shroud broke and became a 2 piece shroud. This was actually very handy in that instead of having to remove the shroud and fan together, the upper half could be removed, then the fan and so on. I had planned on doing this anyhow, but with height too tall I decided to make it a 'feature'. To leave some room for adjustment, I moved hole center down, and made whole thing 1/2 shorter for a nice fit. The extra metal to overlap like it was planned, for a better seal and structural rigidity. To secure the halves, I added some tabs to pull the hoop halves together.

Finish welded, paint prep and some more black paint. Doesn't look to bad.

After mount holes were located and drilled I could test fit with fan. Looks like fan was a bit more than 20". Guess I should have measured more accurately. So gap is more like 1/4" which is really tight. Was worried it would rub. Upside is that fan system efficiency is highly dependent on this gap and tighter is better.

Oblonged the mount holes to get shroud centered to fan and installed for last time. The 2 piece approach is really nice and upper radiator hose can stay on, which is a big benefit to me.
Went for a test drive and flexed out the chassis as much as I could. Didn't hear any contact. Inspected inner hoop for wear marks in paint, didn't see any. I had hoped the hard motor mounts would limit fan movement. So other than screwing up 2 of the 4 critical measurements it is a success. A lot of work with crude tools I have, took about 8 hours to complete.

 

[rattle_snake]

That worked out good Justin.

Nice work on the filler panel!

Thanks Marc! I had all my tools and stuff in a canvas bag. I had it on trans hump but on right hand turns it would slide off onto accelerator pedal and make for an interesting experience.

Great job on the bedside tool compartment mod as well as the glovebox Justin. I remember that bedside toolbox in my wife's grandfather's 1972 Camper Special and thought it was one the best features.

I would like to get another and adapt it to fit the left side. Could use some more room for recovery gear and spare parts.

 

[rattle_snake]

In the continued effort to prevent my wife from purchasing cheap import junk, I whipped up a few more decorations to appease.

Quick shelf out of leftovers. Picked up a solid USA made watering can for non-established front yard plants, as I abhor drip systems. Drilled out all the holes for higher flow rate as I am highly impatient. Stole a rusty wheel off the barn until I can find a suitable replacement. Moved hose hanger under front entry roof to reduce sun damage.


Threw together the usual 'welcome' sign from old horseshoes per request, and a brand outline out of barbwire. Below is a water tub to be used as a planter, false bottom, removable trays.
Still need at least one more piece to fill up the space, been looking for an oak barrel.

 

[cspcrx]

That shroud turned out awesome! Since it was too larger for you brake how did you bend it over? Hammer or by hand or combo of both? I don’t have a brake and look for ideas on ways people bend metal over.

 

[rattle_snake]

That shroud turned out awesome! Since it was too larger for you brake how did you bend it over? Hammer or by hand or combo of both? I don’t have a brake and look for ideas on ways people bend metal over.

I used various pieces of steel equal length to bend to bend it all at once. Then touch up with hammer and a smaller flat bar. Getting workpiece secured and being patent goes a long ways.

 

[rattle_snake]

Revisiting the great front driveshaft debacle. Before cutting and rotating the axle C's I figured I would full investigate all other options as the job is a major PITA. So I created an excel spreadsheet to calculate the angles and limits of suspension given a handfull of parameters. As the axle moves through it's arc it affects the pinion angle and the for/aft position of the front end of the shaft, and hence shaft and joint angles. Decided I needed at least 30* out of shaft. It was at 27* in one plane and 31* in the other. Made some calls and decided to see what I could do to my existing shaft for more max angle. A 1410 double cardan has about same angle limit as this 1350.

Pulled the double cardan joint apart and measured the angles of where the ujoints contact the various parts. Started with the inner bridge and drive flange that are the most inner contacts.


The main offender was the area where the grease zerk is, it allowed only 14*, the opposite side was 18*. So I ground it out carefully to leave the dust boot intact. Now both have 18*.


Next was the flange side, they were about 16* so took them to 18*. Had to hog it out past the seal lip.



At this point I reassembled the joint and checked for interference. The new bind point was all the external surfaces so I went around and ground them until they were no longer the limiting factor.


Then measurements to see what I got. In theory 18* on each cross should get 36 total. It yielded 32 on one plane and 34 in the other. The contact point was the inner drive flange so I removed and hogged it out some more, to 20*. Reassembled and now its at 34* all around. So a major improvement from 27* to 34* (~25%). Compound angle is 38*
This should be enough to do what I want. Next step it to install the shaft in the truck, put it up on the lift and see where limits are. Way easier than turning the C's

 

[racer-john]

Nice solution to the problem.
Nice pair of die grinders.

 

[lilscorpion]

Justin, that bed-side box is trick. That said, the way you made the fan shroud was like “yes! WTF did I never think of doing it that way?!?” Beyond bad ***.

 

[zmotorsports]

Great job diving into the driveshaft issues Justin and exploring all options. I'm curious to see if you can avoid having to re-clock the C's. Although clocking the C's is a huge job I think it will net better results but I'm very curious.

 

[rattle_snake]

Nice solution to the problem.
Nice pair of die grinders.

Thanks John. Sadly I accepted angle limit of this shaft and purchased parts to solve another way. At that time I was overwelled with projects and problems and shelved it so the truck could run and drive. I assumed the ball/socket was limit and couldn't be improved. It just took 1 min and a flash light to understand what needed to be done. Lesson learned.

Justin, that bed-side box is trick. That said, the way you made the fan shroud was like “yes! WTF did I never think of doing it that way?!?” Beyond bad ***.

Thanks man. Glad I was able to salvage the shroud project with the poor measurements and planning. Lessons learned again.

Great job diving into the driveshaft issues Justin and exploring all options. I'm curious to see if you can avoid having to re-clock the C's. Although clocking the C's is a huge job I think it will net better results but I'm very curious.

No need to clock the Cs at this time. With 34* I have more than enough for current limit strap setting and beyond.
From what I have gathered, clocking on a 60 is much more of a PITA than a 44. As you know the pinion angle should be 0* for this setup and anything else is not ideal. In this application with lockouts there won't be any highway speeds with shaft turning so vibes shouldn't be an issue. Will see.

 

[rattle_snake]

Installed the driveshaft with truck on lift at full droop, there was another inch or so the axle could droop beyond the limit straps. This is with caster at 6*, so no other changes needed.
Driveshaft is at 24*, front UJ at 14*, TC UJ at 32* (vertical only, total angle is more)

At ride height the U-joint angles are 15 and 25. I ordered some 2* ball joint shims to tilt pinion up. Not needed but easy and cheap enough to ease front joint operating angle. Should get me to 13/24 or so. Filled front diff with gear oil and went for test drive. Didn't notice any vibrations at low speeds. Steering with Spartan locker up front is not too bad in 2wd/hubs locked. So it's finally a 4WD. or at least 3+.

Plan to revisit the limit straps. I needed to get them on to protect the drag link as well when using 2 post lift, so had to guess on length. I used an existing hole in frame that is a compromise so next step is install BJ shims and figure out new max droop point of driveshaft. Then adjust strap mount point or even get a different length. Should be able to get another inch down travel for 5 up and 6.5-7 down.​

 

[zmotorsports]

In this application with lockouts there won't be any highway speeds with shaft turning so vibes shouldn't be an issue. Will see.

Sooooo, you won't be running at speed in 4HI such as driving on snow-packed roads?

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Justin, looks like you've got an easier solution worked out, hope it pans out.

I'm sure with the 3+ and big cubes, that thing will crawl up a tree if needed!

 

[rattle_snake]

Sooooo, you won't be running at speed in 4HI such as driving on snow-packed roads?

haha not likely until next ice age. I drove around with hubs locked up to 65 mph and I can't perceive any additional vibrations from the front shaft turning. I'll call that a win!

Justin, looks like you've got an easier solution worked out, hope it pans out.

I'm sure with the 3+ and big cubes, that thing will crawl up a tree if needed!

Yes very happy to no have to turn Cs. Planned on that taking several weeks/weekends. Can't work on some other things instead.



So now with working front axle I drove up a dirt pile to find next interference issue. Rear tire gets into front of wheel well, then back also and contacts the inner well too So I think I have to be happy with it and extend bump stops to prevent sheet metal damage. The bump stop extensions are already long so considering other options like integrating with spring plate or some type of goofy custom block.

 

[Mr.N]

Revisiting the great front driveshaft debacle. Before cutting and rotating the axle C's I figured I would full investigate all other options as the job is a major PITA.

Pulled the double cardan joint apart and measured the angles of where the ujoints contact the various parts. Started with the inner bridge and drive flange that are the most inner contacts.

Looks great, glad it's working for you.

Go can go a lot more if you'd like. I've trimmed those down to the level where the snap ring was affected and I have to keep the gap at the grinded spot.
I've broken over 50 U-joints in my trail jeep and maybe 2% are at the T-case end. (1310 DC and 1330 front and 1310 and 1350 rear shaft)

 

[rattle_snake]

What do you think is the main reason for broken u joints? shock load from wheel coming down and contacting ground while on throttle? high steer angle under power?

 

[zmotorsports]

What do you think is the main reason for broken u joints? shock load from wheel coming down and contacting ground while on throttle? high steer angle under power?

Justin are you asking in general, or specifically Mr.N?

I've been wheeling for many years now and I don't particularly count my success by broken U-joints or parts like some but in all my years I've broken exactly one (1) U-joint. It was entirely my fault, I was young and dumb and was hell bent on NOT having my buddy pull me out in his Ford.

Ever since that moment of stupidity I've wheeled on the conservative side and easy on the throttle. I've been around enough club members and/or friends who've broken U-joints on the trail and almost every time it was when they got the vehicle jumping or hopping that I heard that ugly "ting" sound of a snapped U-joint. That losing traction and then grabbing when the tire comes back with full weight on it seems to be the killer of U-joints. Granted that's providing the U-joint was healthy to begin with and not on its way out before hitting the trail which unfortunately there's been a few of them as well.

For the most part these days most of the people I wheel with seem to be of similar beliefs in driving style and we don't have too many failures but they still happen on occasion, especially when someone's ego may get the better of them on an obstacle. That being said, I try to help the U-joints by keeping them serviced and in the best possible angle I can to begin with. When coaching new wheelers in our group(s) I will also try to help them avoid these failures by mitigating those particular scenarios where a joint, or any other part, is going to be the most compromised such as with the steering wheel turned all the way to the lock. That's not the time to "send it".

 

[rattle_snake]

I was asking Mr. N but your input is great information also.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I believe if the joint is within it's operating range than it's either shock or torque being exerted near it's operating limits. We tend to see more tube failures than joint failures.

 

[rattle_snake]

Installed some 2* ball joint shims in front axle to effectively rotate pinion up. They move the upper ball joint back to achieve this, however it also moves the axle back in the tube as well. This creates a misalignment of axle shaft to the splined differential side gears. Not convinced the trade off is worth it. I did the math and went ahead and installed them. Easy enough to take back out.
The shim actually tilts the ball joint to get more offset. Given distance between axle and ball joints the upper has to move 0.314" back to achieve 2*. This offsets axle by 0.190". Misalignment angle into diff is much worse on short side.

Adjusted upper arm heims to get caster back to 5.5*. This raised pinion angle up 3*. At ride the u-joints angles are now 11 and 24*.


With angles reduced a bit I then tested the new max droop limit of the driveshaft. It now gets to the full original design limit, which at current ride height is 7" down. This is also were the drag link starts to bind, so all is well in the universe.
Next step was to adjust the limit straps to take advantage of the additional droop. I set limit a 1/2" less for safety margin (6.5" down). Since I knew the actual stretched length I was able to located the new holes accurately. The temp setup using existing hole was blocked by coil over so I moved hole back which also reduced angle of straps. Much happier with it now. Had to re-route the trans cooler lines to make room for the upper bolt.


So the front suspension is basically 'done'. Well, except for bump stops, haven't been able to fully compress the front to see how tire interacts with sheet metal. Would look better if extensions were on axle side...

 

[Mr.N]

What do you think is the main reason for broken u joints? shock load from wheel coming down and contacting ground while on throttle? high steer angle under power?

First, larger tires means that u-joints become a maintenance item. I bought a dozen 1350's when they hit $16 on rockauto.
I highly recommend Spicer Life u-joints with no grease fittings. I tried other life time u-joints and they kicked me out of the program after I replaced 5 in a summer. Sure there are strong u-joints, but mainly not for highway miles.


Mike makes a good point.
A hopping vehicle kills a u-joint as quick as anything... Don't let it hop

I once asked my brother to hit the throttle to see how much the pinion moved under load with some new HD leave springs... Well it moved too much and broke the u-joint. Then I built a traction bar with 8" of separation between the mount axle holes... let just say my latest has 12" because of more broken u-joints.

So why does hopping and launching cause them to break? Well it allow enough movement the for ears to touch the base and thus damage the u-joint. Most of the time it just crushes the ball bearings, that leads to total failure. I have pulled several u-joints with just one or two bad caps, and they are always the U-bolt or strap side. The full round support with c-clip hardly ever fails.
Now some times you get more damage, and I have several damaged yokes from those events.

Another common failure is to spit out a c-clip, have the u-joint strap or U-bolt loosen and have a cap walk out. Clean those threads and use Loctite. I am a fan of tacking in the front axles steering u-joints. I don't like the caps walking or turning.

Another popular break is when people have all the weight on the front axle, usually on one side, and have the wheel turned more than half way. I've seen many front u-joints go this way.

I like pushing limits when on the trail and have a trailer for my Jeep so driving home is not a worry.
My favorite is Saturday afternoon when hitting a hard trail. Some time I say I am going to Make it, break it or get board. I've been know to launch the front end 3' in the air climbing a ledge and land under full power. Yeah, it's about a 50-50 if stuff will blow up. Sure is fun when it doesn't and you make it.

After driving, look for witness marks of your u-joint yokes hitting each other.

My current build has a 205 with 1350 DC from a Super duty, I believe Spicer drive shafts.

 

[quadrcr87]

Making great progress Justin. Now let’s get those bump stops installed so we can see this thing off-road!

 

[rattle_snake]

After last articulation test I could see that rear axle should be moved back some more. I pulled the blocks and spring plates for round 3 of modifications. I moved the pin hole another 1/2" for a total of 1" back. This is a convenient number as the aftermarket plates typically come with holes in 1" increments. I also added 1/4" of height by stacking anther piece of plate and simply drilled hole in new location. Block is now 3" tall.


Next step was new solution for bump stop frame mounts. Decided to go with an outside-the-frame scheme using the spring stack-up instead of adding more goofy spacers to the existing under-the-frame setup. Used same design and the spring hangers by bending a piece of 5" x 1/4" flat.

After location calculations I welded hangers on frame and touched up paint. Even though I went to great lengths to remove all traces of undercoating, still had welds porosity issues.


There is a 2 x 4 x 3/16" crossmember right behind the hangers so frame twist is mitigated.


Simple leaves+traction bar setup works really well for my application.

 

[rattle_snake]

Next step was to roll the rear fender lips in. I used a rubber mallet to reshape. also radiused the inner well inside edge where tire contacts.
Bump spacing still unknown so back to test dirt pile. Put a 3/4 piece of wood on top of spring plate and tested tire stuff. No sheetmetal contact so removed wood spacer and tried again. Slight contact so figured a 1/2 spacer is a good start. Even with only 3" of bump-to-spring plate gap, still get about 9" of up-travel at outside of tire. Should get about 20" total travel at outside of tire in side flex scenario.
Pile isn't steep enough to fully flex, all 4 tires still on ground...



Then on to the front. Backed up the same pile and discovered issue with front of fender. Needs axle moved back and some more cutting...


Moved my old man's 29' travel trailer around to attempt to empty clogged **** tank. No luck. Tongue weight is at least 500 lbs on this thing without weight distribution hitch. Not planning to tow this trailer with this truck but I could if I had to get it home.

 

[Mr.zippy]

Man, that old truck has progressed nicely! I would say your vision from the beginning has been spot on...............well done!

 

[zmotorsports]

Man, that old truck has progressed nicely! I would say your vision from the beginning has been spot on...............well done!

^^Agreed. X2