Rebel Pioneer Mini Split Install

[jonathan75]

This is a update on how the Pioneer Mini Split is working. It blows very cold and is so silent. I can even run the unit with the garage door open and it still cools off the garage to a working comfort level! So I can work with the garage door open and feel comfortable! Once I close the door it will go down to 71 degrees no problem and my garage is not even insulated. Just amazing to have cool air in the summer and love it! 71 degrees is too cold for me and I just did that for testing to see if it could do it.

Don't hesitate to purchase a Pioneer Mini Split. The product is very good and well built and availability of parts is good as well.

The only down side is the technical support is not very good and the heavy accent can be challenging to understand at times. If you speak Spanish you may be much better off but you still have long hold times on the phone. So if you are DIY type of person and want to save some major money and get a good quality unit go with Pioneer. Even the Japanese brands are made in the same part of China that this unit is made and some of the parts are even Japanese in Pioneer units like the Panasonic fan motor in some models.

 

[AZpilot]

Thanks for letting us follow along and watch good and bad. I am looking for one of these units so this helped. I am very interested in reviews for longevity on the Pioneer. Did you find any?

 

[cagullett1]

This is a great thread! I've been thinking about getting one of these for nearly a year now. Would you mind giving me the size measurements for the indoor unit? I'm trying to decide where I would put it in my garage.

 

[jonathan75]

Thanks for letting us follow along and watch good and bad. I am looking for one of these units so this helped. I am very interested in reviews for longevity on the Pioneer. Did you find any?

I couldn't find any information for the longevity. Looks like we are the Pioneers. But no news can be good news because if there is a problem that is when people become very vocal. The Rebel title is fitting because this unit is going against the Mr. Slim grain. But based on the fit and function of the unit it appears to be very good quality. The fact that the compressor and a lot of the major parts are only made by a few manufactures in the same part of China makes me feel much better about this unit.

This is a great thread! I've been thinking about getting one of these for nearly a year now. Would you mind giving me the size measurements for the indoor unit? I'm trying to decide where I would put it in my garage.

Here is a screen capture I did for you from the manual. It lists the sizes for all the units. My 18,000 BTU is the one on the very bottom. The outline part of the drawing is the actual unit size in MM.

 

[Happybud]

I just had come here and say big THANKS to Johnathan75 for this thread. After reading thru this this thread and I purchased and have almost completed y own install on a 2 ton version Pioneer Mini Split. So many of my questions have already been answered right here that I finally had to take the time to sign in and say Hello. Great Job to everyone here…. Thanks.

 

[jonathan75]

I just had come here and say big THANKS to Johnathan75 for this thread. After reading thru this this thread and I purchased and have almost completed y own install on a 2 ton version Pioneer Mini Split. So many of my questions have already been answered right here that I finally had to take the time to sign in and say Hello. Great Job to everyone here…. Thanks.

Glad the thread was able to help you. Hope you created a account before you started the install. Because you have to log in to see all the pictures.

Congratulations on your new A/C!

 

[jacob_coulter]

Keep us updated on the longevity of the system, this is a great thread.

 

[jonathan75]

Keep us updated on the longevity of the system, this is a great thread.

It was 95F yesterday outside and 72F in my non insulated garage. So still working great! Having a cool garage to work in makes it so much better.

 

[gipraw]

It was 95F yesterday outside and 72F in my non insulated garage. So still working great! Having a cool garage to work in makes it so much better.

How big is your garage?

 

[jonathan75]

How big is your garage?

It is a little over 400sf. Regular 2 car garage.

 

[jmcalli]

Interesting, informative thread and a very clean installation.

I'm thinking of installing a mini-split heat pump in my 525 sf 2-car garage in NE Florida. The walls and ceiling are finished wallboard and there is no wall or ceiling insulation.

A contractor is coming out to give me an estimate on a Mitsubishi installation and has recommended a 24000 BTU unit. He estimates the job will take 5-6 hours and cost around $4000. Looking at your thread, I could probably do the installation myself but I can see myself taking a month or longer to do it .

Mitsubishi has three styles of indoor discharge units, including a ceiling-mounted "cassette" discharge unit. I'm considering that, as it could be installed near the center of my garage and would give 360 degree air circulation. Any thoughts on this? I had this type of ceiling discharge unit in the main living room area in my home in Okinawa, Japan (hot and humid) and it worked very well in the large room.

Are you planning to add insulation?

 

[jonathan75]

Interesting, informative thread and a very clean installation.

I'm thinking of installing a mini-split heat pump in my 525 sf 2-car garage in NE Florida. The walls and ceiling are finished wallboard and there is no wall or ceiling insulation.

A contractor is coming out to give me an estimate on a Mitsubishi installation and has recommended a 24000 BTU unit. He estimates the job will take 5-6 hours and cost around $4000. Looking at your thread, I could probably do the installation myself but I can see myself taking a month or longer to do it .

Mitsubishi has three styles of indoor discharge units, including a ceiling-mounted "cassette" discharge unit. I'm considering that, as it could be installed near the center of my garage and would give 360 degree air circulation. Any thoughts on this? I had this type of ceiling discharge unit in the main living room area in my home in Okinawa, Japan (hot and humid) and it worked very well in the large room.

Are you planning to add insulation?

When I was in Hong Kong I saw a lot of the ceiling units as well. Many restaurants use those cassettes. HighSeer.com offers those also. They must really be selling well because almost everything is out of stock right now. You can contact them on Monday and see when they expect some in. They are right outside Miami if you plan on taking a trip down south. You can save on some shipping costs. But the freight is not much, probably worth it to have it sent to you.

http://www.highseer.com/inverter-ductless-cassette.html

I plan on adding insulation but there is no rush now. Both my heating and cooling still works great without it.

The amount of money it takes to pay someone to install it you can buy a lot of tools to do the job right yourself. And if you are like me buying tools is a great thing! Just give me a reason! hahaha

 

[jmcalli]

Thanks for the link. The Mitsubishi contractor is coming out tomorrow. He has a good reputation and I'm leaning toward hiring him. If I do the installation myself it will probably not get done until the weather cools off and then I will lose motivation and procrastinate some more . I need to "get 'er done." I do hear you about the tools. Also got an estimate from a floor coating outfit. My concrete floor looks terrible with cracks and stains so I plan to have that done too. I want to put the AC in first, then maybe insulation, then the floor.

The ductless systems were invented in the Orient. I remember seeing them on my first visit to Tokyo area in 1983 and I wondered why they weren't available in the US. The ductless systems I had in 2010 in Okinawa were National (Panasonic) brand and they were great. I lived in a large 3 bedroom "mansion" apartment in a poured concrete building ("typhoon proof") a block from the ocean. I had 4 separate outside compressors and 6 indoor wall and ceiling units. Electricity is expensive there and I only cooled the room(s) I was using. Having the flexibility to cool multiple individual zones was convenient also. There were programmable remotes and everything was set to shut off when I left for work.

 

[jmcalli]

Thanks again for the information in your thread.

I went ahead and had the Mini-Split system installed last week. Its a "Multi-Split" system - a 30000 btu outdoor unit driving an 18000 btu unit in the garage and a 9000 btu unit in a bedroom. Everything works great.

I may insulate the garage ceiling down the road, but so far the garage unit cools it down quickly on 90 degree days and insulation might not make a lot of difference. The door has seals around it and the garage seems pretty tight. Will probably attach foam panels to the door.

I may add an MHK1 wireless remote and receiver to the bedroom unit. It offers some interesting options, including linking the existing central heat pumps by using Honeywell Prestige thermostats and their Redlink system. Redlink is compatible with the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim products and it looks like it can save me some money.

Jonathan, I'm looking back through your thread but I don't see the capacity. What is your system's btu?

 

[jonathan75]

Congratulations on your install! Nice to be cool so fast! I thought about splitting to my wife's office but the cost was cheaper for two units so I waited.

The one in my garage is 18,000 BTU.

Thanks again for the information in your thread.

I went ahead and had the Mini-Split system installed last week. Its a "Multi-Split" system - a 30000 btu outdoor unit driving an 18000 btu unit in the garage and a 9000 btu unit in a bedroom. Everything works great.

I may insulate the garage ceiling down the road, but so far the garage unit cools it down quickly on 90 degree days and insulation might not make a lot of difference. The door has seals around it and the garage seems pretty tight. Will probably attach foam panels to the door.

I may add an MHK1 wireless remote and receiver to the bedroom unit. It offers some interesting options, including linking the existing central heat pumps by using Honeywell Prestige thermostats and their Redlink system. Redlink is compatible with the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim products and it looks like it can save me some money.

Jonathan, I'm looking back through your thread but I don't see the capacity. What is your system's btu?

 

[clubba]

Thank you for your informative write-up and great pictures! I actually joined GJ just so I could see your pics, as I'm about to purchase and install a tri-zone system from them.

Thanks again.

 

[Pardigital]

Jonathan-

You just cost me some cash! I joined Garage Journal a year ago because of an upcoming build I had planned. I'm mostly finished with the construction now and was looking at options for heat in the garage. When I started reading about mini splits on GJ, I started doing lots of research. Your post was so very informative that it helped in my decision. I just ordered a 20 SEER 12,000 BTU unit from HighSEER via their eBay store. The cost was $1,027 shipped to Northern KY. My garage is a framed 18x24 with 10' walls. I'll be creating a build post when I get everything completed. Great job!

Thanks!
Patrick

 

[Notgrownup]

So are you close enough to Snow Hill you come install one for me lol.....

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

And to think I hesitated!

 

[smokey0810]

Patrick, make sure you purchase the adapter to use to hook up to the gauges. Pioneer seems to be different from other brands in the industry. Got mine from a local a/c shop, but they sell them at the website also.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Patrick, make sure you purchase the adapter to use to hook up to the gauges. Pioneer seems to be different from other brands in the industry. Got mine from a local a/c shop, but they sell them at the website also.

Even though it is a small concern that can remedied by going to my local supply house. Could you please post here the site link where they offer the adaptor, and of you recall the size of the adaptor or manifold connector. Thanks

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

ONE LAST COMMENT:
As a licensed universal tech and landlord with aging traditional ducted systems to take care of I would like to share my final unbiased conclusion. My only concern being the long and short term overall effectiveness and bottom line cost between the choice investment in either flexible mini-ductless systems OR traditional inflexible heavy split and packaged ducted systems with respect to residential and small business applications. Having researched both type systems in countless install reviews, short and long term praises and complaints, initial and long term cost investment per ton, and down time based on flexibility, parts and labor cost. My unbiased conclusion is that without a doubt flexible ductless mini-split AC systems with respect toward toward cooling is by far and away the most economical choice especially where DIY self install is concerned. And while I can understand the expressed concerns real or imagined by those that have a stake in the US residential HVAC industry, I really don't think there will be any impact on technicians and installers. In fact I believe there will be much more opportunity for technicians and installers to independently contract the installation, upkeep, and maintenance of mini-split ductless systems because of their very nature of their mini size, flexibility, ease of man power install, and lack for need of a huge on-site parts inventory. Because of their Mini-size major components if not repairable quickly on site can now be switched for shop repair under ideal work conditions. Obviously some service companies will see the writing on the wall and will switch the way they do business utilizing the swap and service bay concepts where allot of miniaturized technology has taken us. While others will take a wait and see approach lobbying hard to stop this tide (title-wave) of direction....

 

[smokey0810]

http://www.highseer.com/installation-optional-accessories/service-port-adapter.html

 

[Pardigital]

Patrick, make sure you purchase the adapter to use to hook up to the gauges. Pioneer seems to be different from other brands in the industry. Got mine from a local a/c shop, but they sell them at the website also.

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[jonathan75]

I just had come here and say big THANKS to Johnathan75 for this thread. After reading thru this this thread and I purchased and have almost completed y own install on a 2 ton version Pioneer Mini Split. So many of my questions have already been answered right here that I finally had to take the time to sign in and say Hello. Great Job to everyone here…. Thanks.

Glad to hear it. Did you finish yet?

Thank you for your informative write-up and great pictures! I actually joined GJ just so I could see your pics, as I'm about to purchase and install a tri-zone system from them.

Thanks again.

Keep us updated. If you start a thread please share a link here so we can help you answer some questions.

Jonathan-

You just cost me some cash! I joined Garage Journal a year ago because of an upcoming build I had planned. I'm mostly finished with the construction now and was looking at options for heat in the garage. When I started reading about mini splits on GJ, I started doing lots of research. Your post was so very informative that it helped in my decision. I just ordered a 20 SEER 12,000 BTU unit from HighSEER via their eBay store. The cost was $1,027 shipped to Northern KY. My garage is a framed 18x24 with 10' walls. I'll be creating a build post when I get everything completed. Great job!

Thanks!
Patrick

Don't wait until your done. Keep us updated on your progress. Good luck!

So are you close enough to Snow Hill you come install one for me lol.....

You are just a little over a hour from me.

 

[Notgrownup]

Glad to hear it. Did you finish yet?



Keep us updated. If you start a thread please share a link here so we can help you answer some questions.



Don't wait until your done. Keep us updated on your progress. Good luck!



You are just a little over a hour from me.

I will surely look at this unit ... I found some 15000 BTU units at the coast for around $400 , they are the through the wall style???? not sure yet, not really ready for that, just at the roofing stage of my build...

 

[Jackfre]

ONE LAST COMMENT:
As a licensed universal tech and landlord with aging traditional ducted systems to take care of I would like to share my final unbiased conclusion. My only concern being the long and short term overall effectiveness and bottom line cost between the choice investment in either flexible mini-ductless systems OR traditional inflexible heavy split and packaged ducted systems with respect to residential and small business applications. Having researched both type systems in countless install reviews, short and long term praises and complaints, initial and long term cost investment per ton, and down time based on flexibility, parts and labor cost. My unbiased conclusion is that without a doubt flexible ductless mini-split AC systems with respect toward toward cooling is by far and away the most economical choice especially where DIY self install is concerned. And while I can understand the expressed concerns real or imagined by those that have a stake in the US residential HVAC industry, I really don't think there will be any impact on technicians and installers. In fact I believe there will be much more opportunity for technicians and installers to independently contract the installation, upkeep, and maintenance of mini-split ductless systems because of their very nature of their mini size, flexibility, ease of man power install, and lack for need of a huge on-site parts inventory. Because of their Mini-size major components if not repairable quickly on site can now be switched for shop repair under ideal work conditions. Obviously some service companies will see the writing on the wall and will switch the way they do business utilizing the swap and service bay concepts where allot of miniaturized technology has taken us. While others will take a wait and see approach lobbying hard to stop this tide (title-wave) of direction....

The DOE says that the average residential duct system in America is loosing between 18-42% of its energy in duct losses. The new energy codes are requiring duct testing and $ealing of deficient systems. In my opinion the American Unitary manuf can put all the technology they want in the duct system. They simply cannot deliver it due to the poor ducting in most residences. Costs of duct repair are high. I spoke with a contractor friend of mine who had two men under a raised ranch for 1.5 days. $2,400 for repair and then buy the new equipment. I pulled my whole terrible ducted system and replaced it with mini-splits. I gained two closets and storage under the staircase. The mshp's work great and are very efficient. I also run a Rinnai Energysaver gas fired direct vent wall furnace. It is all located in the living space, hence "Net to the space" heating and cooling. If I was a young man starting out in the H&C business I'd get really good at mshp's and do just those. There are a lot of people doing that today. Small trucks, small crews, small tools. Get in, get out, get paid! I really think the Unitary folks are like the deer in the headlights.

To the OP. Nice work! My only suggestion would have been to raise the condensing unit off the pad 6-8". When your units goes into the defrost mode, which I suspect it will do periodically in NC the iced up condensing unit will thaw and the water will run out of the drain in the bottom of the unit. If, after a few cycles of this the run-off freezes and builds up sealing off the drain port the ice will build up inside and I have seen it (twice) take those very efficient condenser fan blades and kinda modify them so they are no longer very efficient. Monitor that once it gets cold out and see how it goes. The very high seer/hspf units that heat down to -30* actually have pan heaters in them to prevent this.

 

[bullnerd]

Jonathan ,thanks for taking the time.

My usual question...how did you size the unit?

 

[jonathan75]

To the OP. Nice work! My only suggestion would have been to raise the condensing unit off the pad 6-8". When your units goes into the defrost mode, which I suspect it will do periodically in NC the iced up condensing unit will thaw and the water will run out of the drain in the bottom of the unit. If, after a few cycles of this the run-off freezes and builds up sealing off the drain port the ice will build up inside and I have seen it (twice) take those very efficient condenser fan blades and kinda modify them so they are no longer very efficient. Monitor that once it gets cold out and see how it goes. The very high seer/hspf units that heat down to -30* actually have pan heaters in them to prevent this.

Thank you Jack. I think my condensing unit is around 4" high now. I am not too concerned about icing up because I won't be using it much at night and it does not get below freezing too often during the day where I live.

 

[jonathan75]

Jonathan ,thanks for taking the time.

My usual question...how did you size the unit?

I measured the square footage and used a online calculator and contacted the company. They recommended I oversize which I did. Because my garage is not insulated being over sized compensate for the added loss.

 

[bullnerd]

Thanks Jon.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

The DOE says that the average residential duct system in America is loosing between 18-42% of its energy in duct losses. The new energy codes are requiring duct testing and $ealing of deficient systems. In my opinion the American Unitary manuf can put all the technology they want in the duct system. They simply cannot deliver it due to the poor ducting in most residences. Costs of duct repair are high. I spoke with a contractor friend of mine who had two men under a raised ranch for 1.5 days. $2,400 for repair and then buy the new equipment. I pulled my whole terrible ducted system and replaced it with mini-splits. I gained two closets and storage under the staircase. The mshp's work great and are very efficient. I also run a Rinnai Energysaver gas fired direct vent wall furnace. It is all located in the living space, hence "Net to the space" heating and cooling. If I was a young man starting out in the H&C business I'd get really good at mshp's and do just those. There are a lot of people doing that today. Small trucks, small crews, small tools. Get in, get out, get paid! I really think the Unitary folks are like the deer in the headlights.

Unfortunately jack few are willing to see that and don't take kindly to those that do.

 

[cagullett1]

Hey Jonathan, how is your mini split holding up? I've been wanting install this unit for quite some time, but haven't had the time/funds this past summer.

I was wondering, have you had any condensation issues? A year ago, while on our honeymoon in St. Thomas, we had a unit that sweat and spit out condensation when it turned on. I plan to have my indoor unit located directly above where I store my cast iron table saw, and want to avoid my saw getting showered on.

 

[jonathan75]

Hey Jonathan, how is your mini split holding up? I've been wanting install this unit for quite some time, but haven't had the time/funds this past summer.

I was wondering, have you had any condensation issues? A year ago, while on our honeymoon in St. Thomas, we had a unit that sweat and spit out condensation when it turned on. I plan to have my indoor unit located directly above where I store my cast iron table saw, and want to avoid my saw getting showered on.

The drip tray works well and all the moisture drains through the back and down the drainage tube.

 

[jonathan75]

Here is a heating update. I had a PM asking to test the heat function. I have been traveling for work a lot so this is my first chance to test it. Attached are pictures of the temp rise.

 

[jonathan75]

Getting warmer.

 

[CoopVA]

What's the outside temp? I've got a Pioneer 18,000 btu unit in my garage. It seems that if the outside temp is below 30*, it doesn't heat as well as if the outside temp is above 40*...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jonathan75]

What's the outside temp? I've got a Pioneer 18,000 btu unit in my garage. It seems that if the outside temp is below 30*, it doesn't heat as well as if the outside temp is above 40*...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It seemed to level off at 70.3F. And the outside temperature is in the high 50's. So it really does not seem like you can use at add a stand alone heat source in very cold weather. It looks like it would be a good alternate heating source or something to take the bite off. But I may need to turn up the thermostat because it could be turning off since it is set to 71F and it is warmer at its height. But I really don't want it any warmer right now since I am working.

But this beast you see in the picture. That will heat the garage even if it is very cold outside!

 

[CoopVA]

It does take the bite out, but I do think I need something else for those super cold days.... What is that "beast"? Looks like it would work... My space is 30'x24'...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jonathan75]

Here is a link. But probably too small for your large space. Works well in my small garage that is 20x20.

http://www.protemp.us/Electric_Heaters.php