Receptacle not compatible with Aluminium
- Thread starter The Cobbler
- Start date
rburke65
Well-known member
That’s a little scary!
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Forget getting a compatible outlet. I hope they have a rewire scheduled.
None of the Decora® style switches, or receptacles, have the CO/ALR, rating, (AL/CU is used for 30A & larger devices), so people wanting to upgrade their devices are going to have problems if they have aluminum, or aluminum alloy branch circuit wiring.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
For branch circuit wiring? That's hard to believe
yatg
Well-known member
Maybe pigtails and cu-al connectors.
These are nice in that they use a terminal strip, but pricey.
They have 3 port versions too for daisy chaining.
These are nice in that they use a terminal strip, but pricey.
AlumiConn 2-Port Al/Cu Wire Connector (10-Pack) 95015 - The Home Depot
Provide a secure connection while preventing aluminum corrosion by using this Al to Cu Wire Connector from AlumiConn. Secure mechanical connection.
www.homedepot.com
Terry D
Well-known member
They make aluminum devices for less than 30 amps, just not decora
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obviously not when the op must have aluminum branch wiring or he would not have this issue?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You are talking about new work. The OP is not
As they say, homes are generally built right of in an area that has building codes, its what the homeowner does in the years after that causes issues. I would not buy a home with aluminum branch wiring unless a rewire was budgeted before occupancy. Alot of insurance carriers are refusing to insure homes with it or dropping them when their system says they are due for a 4-point inspection (generally homes over 30 but some now calling for it at 15 years), and its found.
correct, and ppl are hiring anybody off the street, non qualified to get the work done. where i am nobody wants to work and the ppl who will work do not know what they are doing. 
so like i said, i have been seeing and hearing contractors doing it.
so like i said, i have been seeing and hearing contractors doing it.Hopefully these inspections are catching these things. I would suspect they are
CO/ALR, is for devices below 30A, AL/CU, is for 30A & above, I mentioned the difference in marking as a FYI, not that they were not available.
Terry D
Well-known member
I didn't know that, Thanks
Where are they buying Aluminum branch circuit cable?correct, and ppl are hiring anybody off the street, non qualified to get the work done. where i am nobody wants to work and the ppl who will work do not know what they are doing.
kbuhagiar
Well-known member
Aluminum wiring for branch circuits? I didn't think it was available here in the US (or anywhere else) in 12 or 14 gauge. I know it's used for feeder cable...but branch wiring? That's news to me.
csp
Well-known member
Why do I get the feeling that you're referring to feeder wire, not individual branch circuits in the home?
Feeder wire in aluminum is perfectly acceptable if it's the right size and type.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
#14 aluminum wire was never produced. (Because #12 is rated for 15Amps, the minimum breaker size in regular use). #12 and 10 are solid, #8 and larger are stranded.
Very common in the late 1960's & early 1970's, in mobile homes, & multi family dwellings, tract homes, it became aluminum alloy conductors in the early 70's which improved the product.
BTW, there seem to be a big push for copper clad aluminum conductors in the NEC.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
you obviously think that people can just walk into a hardware store and buy aluminum branch circuit wiring sized #12 and #10. in reality they cant. It hasnt been made for years and years so your comment makes no sense here.correct, and ppl are hiring anybody off the street, non qualified to get the work done. where i am nobody wants to work and the ppl who will work do not know what they are doing.
Dumber than lumber
Well-known member
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Aluminum wiring in residential units. Meh.
But someone thought it was a good idea at one time.
But someone thought it was a good idea at one time.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Almost like it is a BS story...
OP
This building was built int he early/mid 70's when aluminum was very common place for circuits . They were aware of part of the unit being aluminum prior to purchase . I have done 2 bathroom & a kitchen reno for them. the wire that comes from the panel thru conduit is copper. the BX that feeds the receptacles & switches is aluminum .
The approved fix ( or the proper way ) to use Decora with aluminum is pigtail copper with approved marettes , and it was not done in this case.
the average home owner that changes receptacles & switches has no idea of how to properly treat aluminum and it's very common to have this scenario.
The approved fix ( or the proper way ) to use Decora with aluminum is pigtail copper with approved marettes , and it was not done in this case.
the average home owner that changes receptacles & switches has no idea of how to properly treat aluminum and it's very common to have this scenario.
Aluminum NM sheathed cable is still allowed by the NEC but not manufactured anymore, the only way to use it today is to find new old stock (NOS) AL NM, the only problem is that NOS AL cable is NM cable with a 60°C rating, & it is required to have a 90°C rating, NM-B since the mid 1980's. I am not a fan of either Aluminum Alloy, or copper clad AL, branch circuit wiring, copper clad AL, is sized like AL, but is terminated with ordinary/ standard devices.
haveissues
Well-known member
I very recently saw copper clad nm wire for sale somewhere, but can't remember where. It was online, not local and I remember thinking wow, some knucklehead is going to use this stuff without knowing (or caring) what it is.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
That would be NOS and not useable since as Norcal pointed out, is not properly rated.
Someone probably dug it out of a garage somewhere and dusted it off
Do you have any pics?
haveissues
Well-known member
No, and I cant remember where I saw it for sale. If I remember correctly it was some no name chinese ****, not NOS.
csp
Well-known member
The person you quoted was referring to the availability of AL today, based on the person who stated that he's seen contractors using it now in response to the price of copper.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Aluminum is totally safe for feeder and it is used in nearly every house, including by the utility. It isn't cheaping out.
But it's your money to spend
nadogail
Well-known member
This problem surfaced years ago, as I recall the wire makers managed to put legal pressure on the Consumer Products Safety Commission and the only way I know to get the information, was to make a Freedom Of Information Act request. I had a copy years ago, but lost it.
The Building should, IMHO, be re-wired by the HOA.
The Building should, IMHO, be re-wired by the HOA.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
nothing wrong with aluminum feeders or branch circuit wiring (#8 SER and larger). its used everyday... but today's aluminum wiring is not the same as the wiring from decades ago. they changed the alloys to fix the issue.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Not if it's in a 40-50 year old house ,that's a differant story.
The CPSC never acted on AL wiring as it not really a consumer product.
Got a quote to finish my project 2 weeks ago and the electrician refused to use AL wire (#2 and #4) to make the run to the subpanel citing the problems from decades past. Not all electricians are as up to date on materials as you are, unfortunately.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I wouldnt hire someone that is so out of touch with current practices. Sound alike the guy that does it his way and would blow off a modern code change because it is "new fangled ********"
When he cited "the code" preventing running a subpanel from a subpanel (first sub is less than 24 inches from the main panel (which is out of space) and then stacked the Al comment on, I opted to quit being "scared" of my freaking attic and finish the job I planned.
Clarification: My house main panel is 200amp and will be out of space, so I want a subpanel next to it in the garage to provide the space for the pool, eave outlets, and the new subpanel in my workshop. He wanted to double up circuits on the main panel until there was enough space for 2 100amp sub panels and the pool breaker. I felt like that was just cramming too much **** into an already stuffed full break panel.
Innovate1
Well-known member
I had a house built around 1970 that had aluminum wire for the receptacles. Had it about 5 years. Fortunately didn't have to do much to the place over that time although I recall replacing one receptacle and getting one rated for aluminum wire. As I understand it, and I could be wrong, is that the wire of that era was soft and more recent wire is harder alloy. It would creep over time allowing the connections to become loose. There are, or were, devices that would put a full load on the circuit for a very brief time (to reduce heating of the load) and measure the voltage drop. If it was high you have a problem. The same thing could be done with a heater or blow drier and a multimeter. I did it a few places as a test and never found any issues. I suppose such tests would need to be repeated at some interval to catch problems that develop over time.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
and what was the code he cited? the actual code number?
I'd fire this guy quicker than i could say abracadabra