Recommend a welder for me

[soloz2]

I've always wanted to learn to weld, but just never really had the opportunity/need. That said, my wife wants to get me a welding setup for Christmas and asked what I would need. I've been talking to a friend who recommended the Hobart Handler 140. It gets good reviews, but I do have some concerns about not being able to handle some thicker materials.
I'll try to give some important information, but I'll probably leave something out as I'm a complete noob to welding.
I currently only have 110v outlets in my garage, but I have a circuit breaker box with open spots so I can add 220v if needed. ideally, I will add 220 at some point regardless.
I would like to build some shop projects like workbenches, benches, or garden projects as well as be able to fix cars or other items that break. I am not sure about needing to weld aluminum, but it would be nice to have that capabity as I built my wife a greenhouse kit this summer so it would be nice to be able to repair if something ever happened to it.
Projects I have in mind right now would be to extend the tongue on my utility trailer, add a box up front, and weld on the jack. I would also like to repair the mower deck and make some modifications to the Johnny bucket I recently picked up for my new to me wheelhorse garden tractor. Based on what I've seen I would think something like the Hobart 140 would be good, but some of the metal on the Johnny bucket is 3/8" and the mounting brackets are probably 7/16" thick which is thicker metal than recommended for the 140. I looked at the 190 and 210, but am not sure I need to spend that much. Overall, I'd prefer to spend less as I would need to get safety gear, gas equipment and other associated tools.
I'll add some pictures of the Johnny bucket and my panel. I've read some and watched some YouTube videos, but figured there's always great information here so I wanted to ask here as I love watching all the build journals here. Thanks in advance!

 

[MoonRise]

You've already identified metal thicker than what the 120V machines can really weld.

Get the 240V machine now and skip the whole 'upgrade later' dance.

Safety and miscellaneous gear: helmet, gloves (plural, so that you have more than one pair available for when you burn or rip a hole in one pair ), welding jackets (plural, I like at least a leather one for more protection and warmth in the colder weather and a thinner fire-retardant cotton one for hot weather and when more protection isn't absolutely needed), grinders (plural ), various sizes and types of clamps, etc.

The 210-class machines can do pretty much anything a 'home' person would want/need to weld.

The 190-class can do a lot, but not quite as much as the 210-class machines.

The 120V 140-class machines can do sheet metal pretty well with GMAW (aka MIG), and some thicker steel up to about 1/4" thick (usually) if using FCAW wire.

General rule-of-thumb for wire welding (GMAW) is 1 amp of welding current for each 0.001" thickness of steel being welded. 1/8" steel means use 125 amps of welding current, give or take a little.

And NO, you can NOT just make multiple passes to weld thicker steel. You NEED enough power in the welding arc (amps mostly, but also the arc voltage matters at least a little bit ) to PROPERLY melt not only the welding wire (which will always melt, unless you REALLY screwed something up in setting the machine up) but also the base/parent metal being welded.

Otherwise you just piled melted wire globs ONTO the surface of the base/parent metal.

Called "cold lap" or "lack of fusion" or "lack of penetration", among other things. "Bird poop" for when the attempted weld is REALLY bad.

Go check and read up a whole bunch on the Lincoln and Miller and ESAB websites about welding and how to pick/choose a 'first' wire-feed welder.

 

[Jersey Drew]

Lincoln 180. it’s a great set up and you could always upgrade and purchase a bottle for gas later and still use it as a flux core for now. I’m not sure 110 V is going to handle those thicker metals. And they mig set up that will is probably going to cost a pretty penny. For those thicker ones you may have to get a stick welder which isn’t too expensive but will need 240 V.

Looks like you will be doing a lot with farm equipment, I suggest getting a stick welder and getting comfortable with that first and then move on to a mig welder if you find a need for it.

 

[strutaeng]

MoonRise gave you some solid explanation and advice.

The best advice I can give you if get a cheap 120V wire welder that has "MIG" capability and an inexpensive buzzbox. Use the 120V for anything from sheetmetal up to 3/16 thick and the stick welder for 1/4" and up. You can find both on the used market fairly cheaply. I picked up an older Miller Thunderbolt AC for $40 (had to buy leads,) and started burning rods. Stick also gives you more flexibility if you get some long leads.

Probably less than $500 for both. Practice, practice, practice.

When the welds start looking good, weld some scrap and break them. If the weld fails, keep trying. If the base metal breaks instead, still keep practicing, but you can probably build something that will hold.

Good luck

 

[txvwnut]

Moonrise gave great advice and here's my addition, www.weldingtipsandtricks.com
Jody has great videos and speaks in general terms so you wont get lost in terms of the industry.

 

[dnschmidt]

HTP Propulse 220MTS. Most versatile and best bang for the buck you can get. Also, made in Italy instead of China.

 

[sparky 1971]

I would honestly just get a 240 volt unit now and be done with it. Just put a 6-50 receptacle on a 30 amp circuit under your panel and buy or make a cord. I have a Lincoln 180 and am glad I chose that instead of the 140 because of the unforeseen things I have gotten in to. Watch Ebay. I checked every day for about two months. Just when I was about to give up and drop $709.00 at Lowes or Home Depot, I found a brand new in the box 180 for $450.00 shipped. There is one right now for $595.00 shipped and a Hobart 190 is $720.00. I know it's more than a 120 volt unit, but why spend $400.00 now, then around $6-700 in the future? You could always sell the 120 volt machine, but for what? $200.00?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I won't be specific, but a couple of generalities

• MIG - stay with a brand name if possible
• 240V or 120/240V
• be sure you can easily upgrade to gas

 

[Bert_]

For the stuff in the pictures I would be just as happy to grab my stick welder.

 

[brandonsmash]

120V welders won't be able to fully weld the target application.

You might want to look at dual-voltage welders. That way you don't have to be locked into 240 and you can use the welder in a location that only has 120, albeit with (obviously) reduced output.

Everlast has some reasonable options in this area. I have one of them (251si) for the truck when I need to go out on site to weld and don't know what I'm going to encounter. It will do all the processes I want save for AC TIG, but if I'm going out for an aluminum job I'll generally know that ahead of time. It's also 240/120 convertible.

ESAB, Everlast, Miller, Lincoln -- they all have good dual-voltage options. Miller and Lincoln have some pretty decent multiprocess machines, too.

 

[gearhead1]

I think the Hobart 140 is a great start. Bigger is better, so depends on budget. If you can go to a 190 or 210, even better. I also wouldn’t mess with flux core wire. Yes, it works and can be used but the regular wire with shielding gas is much better.

Aluminum can be done with a spool gun on a MIG welder. The reason for the spool gun is that the aluminum wire is weaker and can’t go as long of a distance of a regular gun without bending. Not all MIG welders are set up for a spool gun, so you’d have to make sure you’re getting one that is spool gun capable. Usually, the spool gun ready MIGs are higher amp units because it takes more heat to weld aluminum. Aluminum is very thermally conductive, so more heat is required.

The other way to weld aluminum is with an AC TIG, some are AC and DC.

I started with the standard ‘buzz box’ arc welder. Got it used when I was 16 and still have it. They’re cheap used. So my thought process is if I’m welding thick or rusty steel, I’ll use the buzz box. If I’m doing thinner stuff, I’ll use the MIG. I found out the MIG (I have a Miller 180) is pretty healthy, and I go up to 5/16” thick with it no problem. I also found an AC/DC buzz box, and I like DC welding when arc welding.

My first MIG was a Lincoln Weldpak 100. I added the gas kit to run shielding gas. I upgraded to the Miller 180 as it was the cheapest model I could get that was spool gun ready.

Miller bought Hobart. If I was getting into it now, I’d strongly consider Hobart welders. I don’t need all the bells and whistles of the high end machines for welding doors closed on a demolition derby car or patching a lawnmower deck. I just need a welder. The Hobart line is perfect for us IMHO.

Where I work now, our products are about 90% stainless steel and they’re all fabricated. Every welder in the shop is a Miller. Every single one. There is a ‘bone yard’ in one corner with a Thermal Arc, at least one Lincoln. I haven’t been at this place quite a year yet, so I don’t know all the particulars. But the guys on the shop floor (career welders) tell me that the Millers hold up better than the rest. But the new electronic stuff drops a circuit board after a few years. The cost of the circuit board and repair is like 75% of the cost of a new welder. The older transformer based machines are still going strong after many years of daily use in a production shop.

I have owned both Lincoln and Miller buzz boxes and MIGs and I personally prefer the Millers but money doesn’t grow on trees. Getting a good deal would outweigh my preference. I think Hobart would be a great product line to look at if I was getting into welding.

Edit: The guys at work clarified and said the Lincoln circuit board was about 3/4 the cost of a new welder, the Miller is about 1/3 the cost of a new welder. It’s anecdotal, but gives a tiny inkling as to what it may be to repair....

 

[no704]

^^++

 

[nelstomlinson]

You really want the 240V machine. If you ever weld aluminum, you'll need WAY more amps than a 120V machine can handle. Nobody ever said ``my welder is too big!''

Take that deadfront off that panelbox and make sure there is provision for breakers under those knockouts. There may not be.

 

[Jason280]

There's never a reason not to go with a 240v MIG, unless its simply an issue of not being able to get a 240v plug. You have access, so it shouldn't be an issue.

That being said, everything you mentioned could easily be accomplished with a 140a MIG (with the exception of aluminum), assuming the correct technique is used. Of course, that's the big question in all of this...what is your ability right now? It looks like you are still in the learning phase, so there will be a learning curve regardless of whether you go with 120/240v.

 

[swavescatter]

I had the same decision to make a year ago. I was considering the HF Vulcan 220, Titanium’s, Hobart, Lincoln and Miller.

By the time I compared out the door prices, I plunked down a few hundred more for the Miller 215. It has the best warranty and can run multiple processes. Buy for life right?

I ordered from cyberweld.com and couldn’t be happier. Bought a filled bottle of welding gas from them too. I figure with the Miller I can always sell it for near what I paid, but good luck getting half your money back with HF.

You definitely want 220V though, even though most will run on 110V.

 

[dnschmidt]

The guy that got this right is the one who said use stick. For stuff that thick it's either dual shield Mig or spray arc Mig and that requires a sizeable Mig machine. A buzz box stick machine can handle that with 1/8" 7014.

 

[SethB]

I went down the path. Wound up with a Lincoln 210, 80cf gas bottle, auto helmet, consumables, etc and ran a 240 line to the garage and I'm welding now. I would go with a 210 machine, it can do just about anything a hobbyist would want. Brand is up to you, I went with lincoln because my local mom and pop welding store carries it and got it on sale during last year. They have been a big help in getting me up and welding.

Don't wait, I wish I would have done it a lot sooner.

 

[abachman]

I too am a wanna be welder.... About 10 years ago I took a welding class at the local junior college. It was gas welding, oxy-acetylene. I have done well with that on my hobby projects and some car parts to date. However, I volunteer at a car museum restoration shop two days a week and the guys there do quite a bit of repairs and fabricating, and use mig welders. That pushed me over to wanting a mig welder. I do not have a 220 line in my detached garage.... so I'm restricted to a 110 welder. The Farm and Fleet near me had the Hobart 140 on sale for under $300. recently and I purchased one. I took it to the museum and had the guys set it up for me and give it a go. They each tried it and showed me that it had reasonable welds... so I'm happy about that. I did give it a go one afternoon here at home on some scraps and my first welds stuck quite well, for a first time mig welding....however, on the really thin stuff I was burning through.... Anyway, I'd say that I would put in a recommendation for this welder as a hobby/first welder at a reasonable cost.

 

[tdkkart]

I bought a Hobart 210MVP about a year ago and am impressed so far. It is multi voltage so you can could use until you get setup with the 220V power.

 

[u2slow]

I would honestly just get a 240 volt unit now and be done with it.

^ This. Or at a dual-voltage machine so you can use it on 120V until you get the 240V figured out. Make sure its gas-capable.

My Millermatic 211 mig (120 & 240V) runs fine on a 20A/240V circuit, and I ran multiple receptacles around the shop for it. No sense in wiring up full-bore 50A circuits for these hobby machines.

EDIT: I wouldn't hesitate to use my welder on that tractor bucket.

 

[Bigbandguy]

It largely depends on how many projects you have and how big. I was in your situation about a year ago and bought the HF Easy Flux 125 which was pretty new at the time. It is an inverter welder and supposedly very similar to a small Miller unit. I have been impressed so far and it works on 120 Volts. Here is a thread I started on it at the time. Mine still works fine and the reviews are very good. DISCLAMER I have no stock or interest in HF.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430172

 

[KSJeff]

I just went through something similar and bought the Primeweld Tig 225x. Just stick welded with it so far, and it's pretty nice. It will run on 110 or 220. Need to pick up some argon and move to Tig soon. Trying to find someone around me that knows how and might be able to help a bit.

 

[Jswain]

If those are the first things you are looking to weld I would skip over the 120v machines altogether.

Leaving a couple reasonable options being 240v MIG welder by any of the big brands, or a 240v stick welder. If you are looking to keep the costs down for now use flux core and step up to gas later down the line or if you plan on welding sheet metal

Buying a Lincoln 140 was always a big regret for me as the upfront cost is still quite large and it's normally a buy once cry once type purchase. For sheet metal it was amazing, 1/8 it was ok, 3/16+ it left a lot to be desired. I got by using flux core for years but once I finally purchased a cylinder it was a game changer.

Luckily I struck a deal buying a Lincoln 180 in like new condition for 325 and also sold my Lincoln 140 for 325 and it was nice to get over the initial regret of purchasing the 140 instead of the 180 to begin with.

In other words get a bigger machine and use flux core if needed for now rather than purchasing everything to be outfitted for gas with smaller machine unless most of your future projects involve sheet metal

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, a clean Miller Thunderbolt or Hobart Stickmate will fill your needs. Good Stick Welders don't wear out, they just get well broken in. Lincoln Tombstone welders are reliable too.

AC/DC machines are more versatile IMHO, than AC only.

 

[Deadsquiggles]

I’d grab a Hobart 210, gives you the option of 120/240 and can be had for less than $900, which is pretty good if you ask me. I bought a 190 earlier this year, and I sometimes wonder when I didn’t spend the extra $100. Like someone else said, nobody has ever complained that their welder was too big.

 

[MJK]

Hobart Handler 140 seems like a very good place to start to me.

If you want to spend more for a multi voltage unit, the Miller 211 is very nice.

 

[soloz2]

Alright, first of all thanks for all the responses! I've been looking at the responses and have been reading up as time allows. The last couple days at work have been busy so I haven't had a ton of time. I need to call a local welding supply about 10-15 minutes from my house and ask what they sell.
I have read about Hobart and I really like they are made in the US, have a good warranty and service centers within an hour and a half.
I also took a look at some other brands mentioned here and the Everlast i-MIG200 is intriguing. It is dual voltage and will do both Mig and stick welding. The price is right as well. I need to look for some more reviews as some I've seen have mentioned quality control issues.
Miller appears to be out of my price range just due to costing significantly more than the comparable Hobart. Millermatic 211 is $1300+ while the Hobart 210mvp is $900.
I'm still going to look through offerings on some other recommendations brands. It seems there are both newer style inverter options as well as the tried and true conventional style with pros and cons to each.

Couple questions follow up questions here. It seems the 180-190 range of welders appear to be 240v only while the 200-210 range appear to mostly be dual voltage. I like the idea of dual voltage as I could start with 110v and wire in a 240v outlet as time allows. However, is the jump to the 200amp have any benefit other than dual voltage? I recognize some offerings differ from this like the HF Titanium 170 which is dual voltage and under $500.

Also, so I can price materials to add a dedicated 240v outlet what amp eating plug should I be looking for? I know part of this will be dependent on the specific welder I choose, but I'd like to get a good idea of materials and cost. I'll add some pics of my sub panel in my garage. I should be good to add a 240v breaker.

I'd rather get a quality unit, even if that means I need to put this on hold and save up a bit.

 

[sberry]

All the 240 use 6-50. The advantage is 2x the power of a 140. It will run 030 solid wire, it's a lot bigger than 023. It is easy to wire so the circuit isn't at max with every arc. They are legal on circuit to 50A depending on wire size a 10 wire 30 breaker is a tailor made, they are small machines and that gives them all the poop they can handle.

 

[sberry]

The Miller simply has some bell and whistle features. The Hobart is like a standard ****** in a pickup truck. They work well. Very good arc, very reliable. Lots of the same stuff as blue, wire and rubber come off the same spools, not sure about the sheet metal if it's same dies, some used to be. I got a Hobart shipped with Miller gun.
Prices were stagnant for long time, features like options, often cheap to make and they use them to raise prices from simple base models. A red 180 can bought on sale in a box store for 750, was 650 25+ years ago. Now imports quality has went up, cost down, has kept the lid on a little.

 

[nelstomlinson]

You do have provisions for two 2-pole breakers there. Cool! It will be easy to run a 240V circuit for that welder.

 

[sberry]

Get a 30 breaker, 12 or better wire to 6-50 receipt, few minutes work to install this. I tend to use 10, partially cause I can and it makes for more robust connections. Also has the potential to serve 50A if needed.

 

[American Locomotive]

The reason why a lot of 180-190a range of machines are single voltage is that many of them are still based on older transformer designs. Some of the transformer units are multi-voltage but most are either 120v only or 240v. On the other hand, most of the newer 200a+ "prosumer" machines are inverter designs, which are almost always dual voltage. One of the most popular ones is probably the Lincoln Power MIG 210.

Lincoln used to have multiple sales per year where you could get the Power MIG 210 for $999, and it was an absolutely unbeatable deal at that price point. But they haven't run that deal in a couple of years, and the price point seems to be pushing upwards. I haven't seen the PM210 for less than $1500 in a long time.

I think that Hobart 210 would be a solid machine. I also wouldn't be afraid of used Red or Blue machines. There's not too much to go wrong in an older transformer MIG welder, and as long as it can be demo'd at a variety of voltages and feeds before purchase, I think you'd be pretty safe.

The "import" machines have gone way up in quality, but parts availability and support is still really iffy. Lincoln still makes and sells pretty much every part for my ~12 year old 120v MIG. There was just a guy on here the other day that couldn't get a new circuit board for his ~1 year old HF Vulcan welder.

 

[sk farmer]

You do have provisions for two 2-pole breakers there. Cool! It will be easy to run a 240V circuit for that welder.

and the 60 gallon air compressor!

 

[Mas78]

I really like my Miller 211 I bought a couple months back. It's dual voltage so I can run 3/16" single pass on 120v with 100ft of 12ga extension cord no issues. I've even done some 1/2" plate multi pass on 120v. The Auto Set feature on it is close enough there hasn't been to much of a need to open the panel and see what settings I need to set wire speed and voltage to. This could be nice being your a new welder, Just hope that you would play around and learn to read the charts on the welder for voltage and wire speed and learn how to quickly know if the settings are off and what to do to correct it.

It only weighs around 50lbs even with a 10lb spool of wire in it so it's easily mobile when I need to take it somewhere.

I really thought about getting the Harbor Freight Vulcan migmax 215 but spent the extra on the Miller as I have a distributor locally and its got a better warranty. Harbor Freight is over an hour away and I don't have to worry about misplacing which ever plug I'm not using as it has a storage place inside with the wire spool. The Vulcan ones have an entire extra cord to keep track of.

Get the Harbor Freight Vulcan cart for $99, even less if you can find a current coupon code.
40, 80 and 125CF tanks all fit great on the cart.
125CF will be the cheapest over all for use.

 

[ZRX61]

Friend of mine recently picked up a used MM210 with tank etc for $600...He's happier than a dog with two dicks.

 

[nelstomlinson]

and the 60 gallon air compressor!

I just used my last two pole space in my shop panel for my compressor. It's a Baldor 5hp single phase, ran 3/4" EMT, 3 #10 and #10 ground, 30A 2-pole breaker.

If I want to add any more circuits, I'll have to get a bigger panel. Everything is surface mounted, so it's do-able, but I'm OK for now.

 

[GCS]

If you’re not in a hurry this is the perfect time to buy a welder.

Watch the sales.
I know rebates are a pain in the ***, but if you’re willing to go through the B.S. you can get a 240v welder for not much more than a 120v.

With the holiday sales, factory, and store rebates I got a really good deal last year on a Hobart 210MVP

 

[soloz2]

I called a local welding supply store yesterday that I've driven past multiple times and always thought I should stop in and check them out, but just never have. Well, I had a great conversation with the guy that runs the local store (there are several area locations) and he recommended a Lincoln 180 Dual for my purpose. He said it would be just over $1200 and if I purchased a tank he would give me the first fill for free as well as 10% off any other accessories as I need safety gear. He also offered to teach me to weld saying he had a back room and I could come over anytime I wanted to practice and even bring my tractor over for help welding. He said whatever machine I chose he would help me set it up and teach me on it so before I left I would feel comfortable. That sounds really appealing. The store is only about 10 minutes from my house so I could stop in every couple weeks for a lesson when I'm not at work (I work 4 10's so I always have 3 day weekends). Overall this sounds really appealing to me and even though the price is significantly higher than online I like supporting local small business when I can. I'm leaning towards purchasing here as I had a great conversation and the manager followed up with a prompt and informative email.

So, the store also carries Miller and ESAB as well as Lincoln. I looked at some reviews online and it appears the Lincoln sells more of the regular 180 or the 210 dual voltage. Are there other models I should consider, or is the 180 Dual a good one to go with?
Also, I saw reference to a rebate that gives you a free helmet, jacket, and gloves. It appears to be active in Cananda now and not the US. Where should I look for rebates and holiday offers?

 

[sberry]

Run, buy it. Make back the difference in price with one salvage.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

I would buy from the local shop. If you have any issues they’re close by, and good service is something many people forget about when shopping online for the best deal. Definitely go with brand name also, warranty and parts availability is much better than the el cheapo brands.