Recommend Jack Stands?

[fomocoforrester]

That's pure Bull **** because you have to take the load off to index the ratchet.

I'm just quoting the guy whose face it fell on ........

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=80

see post number 99.

 

[a390st]

I had to get a pair of 6 ton Torin jack stands from Northern Tool one day. That's the only brand they had in stock and I had to have them NOW. They are the ratcheting style, but also have a pin lock that supposedly adds a measure of additional safety. I don't know if they're any good, but they have seen a world of use and still look like new.

 

[Scout Driver]

I had to get a pair of 6 ton Torin jack stands from Northern Tool one day. That's the only brand they had in stock and I had to have them NOW. They are the ratcheting style, but also have a pin lock that supposedly adds a measure of additional safety. I don't know if they're any good, but they have seen a world of use and still look like new.

I bought 2 sets of these this summer. The lock pin adds peace of mind. Haven't used them a lot yet, but I do like them so far. I'm not nervous about working under them.

Scott

 

[Elroy]

I'm just quoting the guy whose face it fell on ........

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=80

see post number 99.

Notice the handle is up next to the tire preventing the dog from engaging properly.

I not going to read all 37 pages but I can tell ya with out doubt that it was his responsibilty to ensure the stand was set. He didn't check it and he paid the price.

Is it the stands fault the guy's an idiot? He's lucky to be alive and Elroy would venture to say that next time he checks the set a little closer.

Dumb ***

 

[WHT]

That's pure Bull **** because you have to take the load off to index the ratchet.

Maybe, as long as the ratcheting mechanism is working correctly. Additional complexity in a tool or machine always introduces additional possibility of failure and increased risk.

"(Bartlett 914 @ Apr 2 2007, 12:12 PM) *
Real curious about these failures. Was this a case of the car wiggling and the stand slipping / falling over? Or is this a case of metal failure. Please show us when you are able.

I remember one incident where something was lifting on the release for the stand ratchet release. It didn't slip because I saw what was happening before it released. I think I will pin all my stands.

I think that's exactly what happened. No more un-pinned jack stands for me.

Standard jack stands. Not broken, bent spindled or mutilated in any way. The jack stand was securely positioned under the rear control arms (one of my favorite and most sturdy points for jack stands IMHO). No jiggling or wiggling, I'm very cautious about that. I can only think of one possible conclusion for this stand releasing. If you pull the handle upward, even with weight on the jack stand, it can release. It's possible that I pushed it upwards with my arm while loosening the engine mount bar bolt."

 

[Elroy]

Maybe, as long as the ratcheting mechanism is working correctly.

Like having the tire in the way.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

if I may chime in? I have two sets of jack stands. One cheepies that I got with my jack (it was on sale jack and two jack stands for 30 bucks) and some craftsmans that I got at new uses (hopefully they werent there because of them failing and the owner wanted to pawn them off on someone else) Anyways both have served me well for the past 2 years never afraid they were going to fail. personaly I think that if you are afraid they are going to fail just put another set of jack stands under there with you. I have been under my car many times and with all the times my uncle and I have been beside that car servicing it and the shake and wobble that he will put on a car to get a part loose makes me cringe but my jack stands never let go I myself am more worried about my cheep jack (one of those cheep ones you always see kids and idiots walk out of stores with that only do about 13 inches) when it lifts the car if I dont have it perfectly parallel to the longitudinal or lateral axis of the car the jack does a 3 wheel manuver with 1 in the air. If I notice it i doing this I will set it down asap and reposition. Thats just me tho.
Also why would a company put out a jack stand that could possibly fail due to an easily made user error. We are talking about big bucks coming out of these companies pockets if they fail. So im sure that all designs are dependable and will most likely work. Personaly I like my ratchet type. Also If anyone knows where to get a set that are of the screw type (like on aircraft) i think that would be my first pick over all the others


GOOD LUCK
Sean Scott

 

[bchee]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74489

 

[fomocoforrester]

Notice the handle is up next to the tire preventing the dog from engaging properly.

I not going to read all 37 pages but I can tell ya with out doubt that it was his responsibilty to ensure the stand was set. He didn't check it and he paid the price.

Is it the stands fault the guy's an idiot? He's lucky to be alive and Elroy would venture to say that next time he checks the set a little closer.

Dumb ***

I don't think that it is at all clear that the handle is up in the picture, and even if it is, the guy already said in his post that he must have inadvertantly moved it up to have caused the accident in the first place.

You say he did'nt check it - how can you possibly know that - he sounds from that one post number 99 alone, that he is a responsible and cautious guy.

Bearing in mind that the picture was taken after the accident, I think you would have a hard time convincing a coroner that the position of the latch after the event, was any kind of indicator as to its position beforehand. Especially when you consider the mechanical dynamics of a pawl being forced under load to skip over its rack.

I dont think you need to read the whole thread (only 11 pages by the way - not 37) to have any reason to speculate that the stand was in anything other than in good working order, or that the operator was following anything other than good working practice, apart from inadvertantly tripping the latch. In which case, in my opinion, the blame lies soley with the design concept of the stand, when you consider the cicumstances under which the stand is likely to be used.

It appears to me that the most likely cause of this accident was that, after correctly positioning the stand, and checking that the latch was properly set, there was insufficient load on the jack to prevent inadvertent tripping of the latch. This could have been due to too big a gap between adjacent setting points (teeth) on the rack. This is an inherent problem with all stands, including the pin type, that don't have an infinitely variable height setting mechanism like a screw or hydraulic cylinder. This is the reason that OSHA like pin set stands, because it is impossible to lower them inadvertantly when subject to a light load or no load at all.

I don't think that Elroys advice that he checks the set a little coser next time, is realy neccessary as he has already indicated that he intends to follow OSHAs advice in the future, and use only the superior pin type stands

I have followed your contributions to this forum in the past with interest and respect, but in this instance I think your writing the guy off as an "idiot" and a "dumb ***" is totaly out of line, not to mention unsympathetic.

 

[Elroy]

I'll tell ya what:

You use the kind of jack stands you want and Elroy will use the kind of stands he wants.

I have simply stated my opinion about the situation. If you don't like my opinion you can go to hell.

 

[mrholeshot]

That's pure Bull **** because you have to take the load off to index the ratchet.

You can have your pin stands. I wouldn't have have them. Just Elroy's opinion mind ya.

Mrholeshot is with Elroy on this one.

 

[fomocoforrester]

I'll tell ya what:

You use the kind of jack stands you want and Elroy will use the kind of stands he wants.

I have simply stated my opinion about the situation. If you don't like my opinion you can go to hell.

Elroy - are you OK mate, you don't sound like your usual self .....

 

[fomocoforrester]

Mrholeshot is with Elroy on this one.

And you're both against OSHA - what does that tell you? ......

 

[Elroy]

And you're both against OSHA - what does that tell you? ......

If you want to really piss me off, put words in my mouth.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I have HF jackstands and trust them completely. They are very well made.

Maybe so, but I just can't wrap my head around it. I'd be nervous every moment I was under the car if it was HF that was supporting the car.

I won't do HF for any lifting tasks either. Maybe not logical but I just can't do it.

Gotta chuckle about this. I understand you want to be comfortable, but this is really illogical. I don't have the slightest trepidation of being under my car with six ton HF stands supporting it.

 

[fomocoforrester]

If you want to really piss me off, put words in my mouth.

Hardly putting words in your mouth - I was merely commenting on the inescapable conclusion that you both favor ratchet type stands over pin type stands.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, except it just happens to go against OSHAs recommendations..

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, except it just happens to go against OSHAs recommendations..

Probably not a bad thing....

 

[Monte]

Here is a pic of the "dog" of my ratchet jack stand which I´m currently repainting (can´t stand the red anymore ). There are pinholes everywhere, hopefully only on the outside from the casting process, and not also inside the metal.... Don´t look that trustworthy though. Usually i see better cast steel....

 

[krusty the clown]

krusty can tell you that he has used the ratchet style for over thirty years and has never seen one fail, in fact he has never worked at a shop that didn't have the ratchet style.


now this thread ask's a more important question.......hellman's or miricle whip?

 

[fomocoforrester]

Probably not a bad thing....

Now why would you say a thing like that?

Of course any set of regulations will incorporate errors, imperfections and anomalies, thats why they are constantly under review by various review bodies and consultation committees. The purpose of this being to ensure, as far as is practically possible, they perform the function that they were intended for.

Some people have problems with these regulations, laws or whatever, because they only see the sometimes onerous demands that they make on them personaly. They just don't see the bigger picture which, in the case of OSHA, is to improve the health and safety of the nation as a whole, and presumeably they are achieving this objective, or they wouldn't be funded at the level they are.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Now why would you say a thing like that?

That was said tongue in cheek.

They just don't see the bigger picture which, in the case of OSHA, is to improve the health and safety of the nation as a whole, and presumeably they are achieving this objective, or they wouldn't be funded at the level they are.

Like all those gov't programs that work so well, huh?

 

[kythri]

Just out of curiosity, and not that we've seen anything more than a single failure of a ratchet-style jack stand (at least, I haven't seen anything else posted recently) - has anyone actually seen a pin-style fail? Is there any documentation (especially photo documentation) of one failing?

As I said when I started posting in this thread, I didn't have any rational reason to dislike the ratchet-style, as I had never seen anything about them failing, I just wasn't comfortable with the design - and then, ****, nearly instantly, there's photographic failure of a failed ratchet-style jackstand (which I assumed to be HF due to the orange, but was told that it wasn't an HF due to the design).

Talk about reinforcing my opinion.

Given the extreme dislike of the pin-style from several members, I feel compelled to ask my above question.

 

[fomocoforrester]

That was said tongue in cheek.

I didn't get that because I don't really understand what a pimpflash smilie means in this context. Perhaps you could explain it to me....

Like all those gov't programs that work so well, huh?

Their all doing just as well as they can taking everything into account.

Dammit Galaxie, your getting me dangerously close to political territory....

 

[mrholeshot]

And you're both against OSHA - what does that tell you? ......

I'm not against OSHA I'm against Pin style Jack stands. I still havent seen where OSHA disproves of quality ratchet style jack stands. Like I said, Ive had OSHA in my shop and nothing was said about my jack stands and the inspector looked right at them. What your statement says is you like thinking for others

 

[mrholeshot]

Just out of curiosity, and not that we've seen anything more than a single failure of a ratchet-style jack stand (at least, I haven't seen anything else posted recently) - has anyone actually seen a pin-style fail? Is there any documentation (especially photo documentation) of one failing?

As I said when I started posting in this thread, I didn't have any rational reason to dislike the ratchet-style, as I had never seen anything about them failing, I just wasn't comfortable with the design - and then, ****, nearly instantly, there's photographic failure of a failed ratchet-style jackstand (which I assumed to be HF due to the orange, but was told that it wasn't an HF due to the design).

Talk about reinforcing my opinion.

Given the extreme dislike of the pin-style from several members, I feel compelled to ask my above question.

Now while I don't have photo documentation I have seen a pin style fail. It was a cheap one and it sheared the pin. My big OTC truck stands are pin style but it is a quality stand. Ive never seen a ratchet stand fail but I'm sure in the case of super cheap stands that those fail as well. I personally don't think the stand failed. It's not broken. The guy said he lifted the car off of himself. That tells me that not much load was on that stand and when the car rocked the tire caught the lever and the car came up and pulled the lever up and the stand came down. Then the car came down on that corner No matter what the guy says I have doubt in my mind but It's doubtful he would accept any responsibility as there is probable some lawyer already on it. I hate it for him but sometimes we do something stupid. I lost all my front teeth to a 9/16 Snap-On wrench that dropped into the fan of a 69 chevy trucks fan blade. 26 stiches and a set of dentures later I saw my error. It's easy to blame the jack stand, it can't defend itself.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Just out of curiosity, and not that we've seen anything more than a single failure of a ratchet-style jack stand (at least, I haven't seen anything else posted recently) - has anyone actually seen a pin-style fail? Is there any documentation (especially photo documentation) of one failing?

As I said when I started posting in this thread, I didn't have any rational reason to dislike the ratchet-style, as I had never seen anything about them failing, I just wasn't comfortable with the design - and then, ****, nearly instantly, there's photographic failure of a failed ratchet-style jackstand (which I assumed to be HF due to the orange, but was told that it wasn't an HF due to the design).

Talk about reinforcing my opinion.

Given the extreme dislike of the pin-style from several members, I feel compelled to ask my above question.

Meh. I own the 6-ton HF jobs and never felt unsafe with them. Still use tires as a backup and the jack too if I don't need to move it out of the way. Have used pin-style in the past but the stands were so ****** I wasn't worried about pin vs. ratcheting, I was worried about the older pin-style stands falling apart. Beefiest ones I could find at the time were the HF ratcheting ones. For me it wasn't about not trusting the pin, it was about the rest of the stand. Pin vs. ratcheting never entered the equation.

Be careful about focusing on a single or small number of failures as an example or "proof" of anything. Hard to draw any reasonable inference about a population (all ratcheting stands) when your sample is that small (and of unknown brand), no?

By the same token, remember the old adage that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. E.g. just because you don't see pictures of pin-style failures on a forum, doesn't mean it hasn't (or won't) happen.

I say pick your poison and play it as safe as you can. Throwing out your jack stands or questioning their integrity because you saw pictures of someone else's horrific failure under uncertain circumstances is just plain silly.

 

[Bolster]

Well I'm glad I started this thread.

Always gratifying to see everybody feuding like Hatfields and McCoys.

Now I'm thoroughly confused as to whether to go ratchet or pin. Looks like certain death either way.

Mock me if you will, I am NOT buying a HF jack stand, no way! I'm perfectly content to die some other way, just not from a HF jack stand. I mean, I expect my death will be on account of the Chinese at some point, but...just not a jack stand, please.

 

[Stephenw]

I changed the oil on my wife's Windstar van today. I tried to lift the ratchet release on my HF 6 ton stands with the weight of the van on them. I pulled as hard as I could and they held. I was tempted to try with a prybar, but decided against it.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Mock me if you will, I am NOT buying a HF jack stand, no way! I'm perfectly content to die some other way, just not from a HF jack stand. I mean, I expect my death will be on account of the Chinese at some point, but...just not a jack stand, please.

In all honesty, I'd have preferred American made, but at the time I couldn't find them and it seems silly to swap them out now. I'd have avoided HF if I could have.

 

[fomocoforrester]

I'm not against OSHA I'm against Pin style Jack stands. I still havent seen where OSHA disproves of quality ratchet style jack stands. Like I said, Ive had OSHA in my shop and nothing was said about my jack stands and the inspector looked right at them. What your statement says is you like thinking for others

I'm not exactly sure how I can think for others, but as I already had to point out to Elroy that I was'nt putting words in his mouth, maybe I'm not making myself clear.

When I say you are against OSHA, of course I'm only saying that in the context of discussing pin type stands against ratchet style stands. How could I possibly comment on your position with regard to OSHA on any other topic, when I havn't a clue what it may be.

The most likely reason that the OSHA guy did not pass comment on your shop stands is because OSHA is not saying they are unsafe, just that they are not as safe as pin style stands, and you are perfectly entitled to use ratchet style stands as you see fit.

This difference in safety levels between the two types is so small that a diplomatic OSHA guy is hardly going to make an adverse comment about your shop full of ratchet stands when they are perfectly acceptable. Especially when he is acutely aware of the risk of antagonizing shop owners unneccessarily.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I mean, I expect my death will be on account of the Chinese at some point, but...just not a jack stand, please.

You're killing me!

 

[WHT]

Yous pays your money and yous makes your choice. Hopefully,people realize that stand construction is a safety issue and they can discuss the matter without calling other posters names.

Look closely at the picture Monte posted. Your life is held by a 1/8-inch area of engagement in many ratcheting stands. Ratcheting mechanism are often cast today and parts can wear and fail much easier than a quality pin stand made from extrusions. Also, it is obviously easier to inspect a pin stand for wear.

If a pin does break on a quality stand with close tolerances (and I have never seen a pin break), the stand will most likely simply jam and not have a total failure as can occur with a ratcheting mechanisms.

 

[d33pt]

so where can i buy a US made 6-ton ratcheting jackstands with pins as a backup? that would give the best of both worlds. otherwise i'm going to buy the hein-warner 6 tons and 3 tons from tooltopia that was linked earlier.

 

[nexum1919]

regarding the photo on the porsche forum where the jackstand supposedly just 'let go'

look at the after photo, the handle is awfully close to the tire, i don't know why he did not position the stands with the handle facing other way. most probably, the pawl did not engage with the notches in the drawbar fully because of the handle being held up by the tire. But apparently enough to support the weight for a while, waiting for him to disturb the incredible fine marginal positioning of the pawl...

 

[caper]

Depends what you need. But, I have the Norco low profile jack stands (needed for low sports car) and they work very well. And, I wouldn't worry about them collapsing.

The majority of jack stand accidents according to OSHA occur with ratcheting stands. The pin stands are simpler and safer, allowing that you are smart enough to install the pin correctly. If not, you should not be using ANY jack stand.

BTW, its a simple one hand operation. You set the stand height you need/want, check the pin and position under the car with one hand while making sure the base is on a secure footing. Its not exactly rocket science.

Made in U.S.A.
Model 81205
Jack Stands - Pair
Low Profile
5 Ton Capacity
(each stand)


Intended Use
Low profile design in order to support low cars, forklifts and heavy machinery. All stands are sold and intended to be used in pairs.

Features (9 to 16 inches)

* Pin type support column adjusts to four different height positions.
* Heavy duty adjustment pin is secured to stand to prevent loss.
* Handle provides ease of positioning and carrying.
* 9" square base secures and stabilizes load.

These stands are an accident waiting to happen IMO.We have similar ones at work and nobody in the shop will use them.Not because of the pins but because of the flat plate on the base.It makes them very wobbly unless they are on perfectly flat floors.We have eight professional techs in our shop and,to a man,they are all refusing to use this style of stand.(Not to mention my son could weld better than the birdshit welds on them.)We have a mix of ratcheting and pin style stands in the shop(about 30 stands).If any preference I suppose it would be to ratcheting types but we use the pin types as well.The main complaint with the pin type is that usually the pin puts it at the wrong height for what your doing but there seems to be a finer adjustment with the ratcheting style.In twenty years in shops I've never seen either type of stand fail.If a ratcheting stand dropped from under that car it was operator error in my opinion.If the weight is properly on a ratcheting stand it's impossible to bump the release arm and move it.You'd have to lift the weight of the car.If it dropped and the pawl is still in one piece it was operator error,plain and simple.

 

[coldfusion21]

I have always used the ratchet style stands, usually some china ones, HF or otherwise.

I have never had one deform or fail on me, the ratchet mechanism is simple and i always check to make sure its securely engaged, just like you would with a pin. Ratcheting ones also seem to have a finer degree of adjustment. What would be cool is a ratcheting stand that could be pinned as well.

I like my ratcheting stands, they serve me well for a decent price. I will probably upgrade to a pinned USA stand in the future, just cause.

 

[Monte]

Ratchet + Pin style in one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00026Z3E0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[d33pt]

Those torin jack stands just pin the pawl down, so you can't move the lever up. The pin will do nothing if the pawl fails. I was thinking of a pin that goes through the bar.

 

[X1 Mike]

Well I'm glad I started this thread.

Always gratifying to see everybody feuding like Hatfields and McCoys.

Now I'm thoroughly confused as to whether to go ratchet or pin. Looks like certain death either way.

Mock me if you will, I am NOT buying a HF jack stand, no way! I'm perfectly content to die some other way, just not from a HF jack stand. I mean, I expect my death will be on account of the Chinese at some point, but...just not a jack stand, please.

Pure comedy gold.

I love how you specified multiple times that you wouldn't consider 港货运 but the fanboys insist on talking to the walls.

 

[Stephenw]

I love how you specified multiple times that you wouldn't consider 港货运 but the fanboys insist on talking to the walls.

I have jack stands and a few other things from Harbor Freight, but I'm certainly no fanboy.

Answering questions and participating in forum discussion is not for the sole benefit of the person who started the thread. It is also for the benefit of other forum members who may be reading the discussion.