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Reinforcing my floor

THE APPRENTICE

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NORTH LANARKSHIRE ,BONNIE SCOTLAND
Prior to pouring is it essential to have re bar or some sort of reinforcment throughout the whole area of the floor? Im hoping to get my foundations etc started soon if the winter is kind and noticed that re bar is fairly exspensive .Didnt really account for this cost but wont be dodging must haves just because its a bit pricey .
 
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kd3pc

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it really depends on the soil type and how it lays.....many in our area are just 2 inches of compacted, 3 or 4 inches of stone and then form and pour 4 inches of concrete.

But then they had to blast to get a spot big enough to put the septic tank in.

You may talk to some local concrete finishers or builders to see what they are experiencing.
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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I havent really seen any of the garage builds in my area being fitted out with re bar or any metal at all .Sometimes its just a load of broken up bricks or smashed up concrete.My worry is that my garage is far larger ad need s a little more method rather than a very low budget build. My floor and ******** thickness will be very similar to what you describe and from past experience the soil around here is rock hard.
 

98ramtough

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Two rules about concrete.

1) It's very heavy.

2) It is going to crack.


I can't imagine spending all the money on the mud and not laying down a little more for rebar. I've always done 3-4" of compacted rock that is wet down and packed multiple times, then put rebar on adobes. Don't ever let someone tell you they can "pull it up as they pour". BS. set it up on adobes then pour. Do it right and you won't have to worry about it...... If you get a crack with rebar it shouldn't "heave". This is more important if your in a freeze area, but I would still always use rebar....
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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Two rules about concrete.

1) It's very heavy.

2) It is going to crack.


I can't imagine spending all the money on the mud and not laying down a little more for concrete. I've always done 3-4" of compacted rock that is wet down and packed multiple times, then put rebar on adobes. Don't ever let someone tell you they can "pull it up as they pour". BS. set it up on adobes then pour. Do it right and you won't have to worry about it...... If you get a crack with rebar it shouldn't "heave". This is more important if your in a freeze area, but I would still always use rebar....

My floor will be 4" of rock and probably 4 or 5 off concrete so i guess i will also be putting plenty of re bar in .Just as you said i dont want to do half do things incase they come back to haunt me .Thank you for your guidance .
 

dcs Inc

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I have been a concrete contractor for nearly 40 years. I now teach and certify installers for epoxy and overlay applications. Here is the quick on concrete, reinforcement, and why concrete cracks.

Concrete shrinks during the drying process. If you do not have weaker lines for the concrete crackage to follow, it will crack randomly. After the curing and hydration of concrete, the only way it will crack is either a poor subgrade that isn't compacted properly and offers bad support or improper crack control cuts to support expansion and contraction of the concrete. If we are talking about an interior slab after hydration, you should never have a problem with cracks with a constant interior temp. (Famous last words) I have done everything perfectively and still have a random crack.... totally ***** ;)
 

ConCretin

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Contrary to popular opinion, rebar or mesh does little to prevent cracks. What it does do is prevent cracks from opening up and reducing the structural integrity of your slab.

To answer your question; yes you should install properly positioned rebar or mesh in your slab. You should also seek to prevent cracks by limiting mix water and following proper curing procedures. Your final line of defense against random cracks is carefully planned and executed control joints.

Are all these steps necessary? well that depends on how mad you'll be if you get a big ugly crack that you can trip over shows up in the middle of your new floor.
 
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GYPSY400

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Naughton Ontario
Don't cheap out on the foundation. . The rest of the building depends on it. . In my area, any pad requires an engineered design over 500sqft, this includes rebar, mesh and thickened perimeter.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
 

Ch3No2

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Contrary to popular opinion, rebar or mesh does little to prevent cracks. What it does do is prevent cracks from opening up and reducing the structural integrity of your slab.

To answer your question; yes you should install properly positioned rebar or mesh in your slab. You should also seek to prevent cracks by limiting mix water and following proper curing procedures. Your final line of defense against random cracks is carefully planned and executed control joints.

Are all these steps necessary? well that depends on how mad you'll be if you get a big ugly crack that you can trip over shows up in the middle of your new floor.

What he said!......
 

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Kevin54

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I would use rebar over wire mesh. Wire mesh can stretch and pull some, rebar will prevent a slag, if it cracks from dropping lower than the other slab. You can see this in a lot of older places where the slab has cracked and dropped.

With that being said, I didn't have rebar in my garage slab, but rebar was required in the footer. I had control joint sawed into my slab and they did exactly what they were intended to do, control the crack. In each control joint you can see where the concrete crack in it. ANd a garage is going to be a little different that your concrete that is outside. Any concrete that you pour outside, I highly recommend rebar. And if you make pours later, you want to pin to existing concrete.

All of y sidewalks, and we have then completely around the house and from the house to the garage, all have rebar in them and the rebar is overlapped at the control joints. This keeps one slab from dropping and making a trip hazard. Something that you definitely don't want to have. The first sidewalk I poured was maybe 10 years ago and maybe a little longer. I took out the sod and put a good base of gravel down. The gravel was down for over a year and was drove over by the garden tractor and walked on many times. That sidewalk has control joints in it at every five feet and has never cracked in any one of the joints. The other sidewalks that were put down, never got the compaction that they should have had, and a few of them have cracks in the control joints.

But most of all, the key to having a good pour is starting out with a good base. The tighter you can compact your base stone the better. Rent a plate tamper for a weekend. Spread some stone a few inches thick at a time. Tamp it in over and over. Then add a few inches more of stone. Tamp it in over and over, and wet it down if it is dry. If you don't compact the stone, it will compact some when the concrete is poured, and it will compact some more after the concrete is cured. If you don't have a block with a ledge on the outside, you can see where the concrete guys will strike a line, and a year later, you can see where the concrete has settled down some. So good base prep is a must.

And if you can't swing the cost of rebar for the complete floor, try swinging enough cost to rebar across the areas where you will have your control joints cut in. That way when it cracks in the joint cuts, it won't let ones portion of the slab drop from the other.
 

bazzateer

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Watford, Great Britain
Don't cheap out on the foundation. The rest of the building depends on it.

This ^^^

The footings, concrete base, ramp and dwarf wall have accounted for 2/3 of my costs - the other 3rd was for the garage itself.

My subsoil was very hard compacted gravel, we then compacted about 4-5" of crushed concrete/gravel before laying 6" on concrete mix over heavy gauge steel mesh. Footings for the dwarf wall are 18" x 18" and have re-bar in them.
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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The footings, concrete base, ramp and dwarf wall have accounted for 2/3 of my costs - the other 3rd was for the garage itself.

My subsoil was very hard compacted gravel, we then compacted about 4-5" of crushed concrete/gravel before laying 6" on concrete mix over heavy gauge steel mesh. Footings for the dwarf wall are 18" x 18" and have re-bar in them.[/QUOTE]

Well im definately not going to be missing things out in the name of saving some cash. This said im going to be doing everything without getting any contractors in to do the foundations and slab .
My dad has some experience in this area so between us ,alot of mates and a few cement mixers i hope to mix and pour it all myself so hopefully i wont be going into 2/3 of my budget before i get the kit on top.
Getting a cement lorry on the job is just way too much money .If you dont mind me asking bazz what kind of prices are use guys down south paying to get concrete poured ?
 
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theoldwizard1

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A well compact base of gravel/crushed concrete is key. You can do this yourself if you can rent a gas powered plate compactor.

How bog is the slab ? Are you going to put in expansion joints ? If not, you need to use a concrete saw to cut "control joints". As stated, concrete will crack. hopefully it will follow a control joint or if going across, hopefully the control joint will stop it.
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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A well compact base of gravel/crushed concrete is key. You can do this yourself if you can rent a gas powered plate compactor.

How bog is the slab ? Are you going to put in expansion joints ? If not, you need to use a concrete saw to cut "control joints". As stated, concrete will crack. hopefully it will follow a control joint or if going across, hopefully the control joint will stop it.

Yes i will definatley be hiring a whacker plate to compact everything down. my base is 24 x 26.
We did my dads about ten years ago and its still very sound but alot smaller than mines .As a group of family and friends we have build many projects over the years but none of this size .Right now im not really sure how long its going to take but i know it will all be undertaken by hand . Dug ,shoveled,mixed and poured by as many hands as i can find lol

Once the weather gets better im ready to get started and i will keep you all posted .
 

RSOllie

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Have a looks on my thread at how I prepared my base http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195390
Starts on page 3 I think, must admit there aren't pics of mesh though as it went in as I went
4" of crashed concrete
1" of compacted sand
Layer of polythene
Then 130mm of c35 redimix with fibers
And steel mesh sheets x6 I think

I am so glad I went with redimix!! And would advise u do as ur pad is a lot larger than mine and unless u have a couple of big mixers and 10 people u won't get as good a mix imo
With you size pad I would also get I bit more advise regarding reinforcement
Also would there not be planning and building regs involved cos of the size? Would think they have specs needed for planning
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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Have a looks on my thread at how I prepared my base http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195390
Starts on page 3 I think, must admit there aren't pics of mesh though as it went in as I went
4" of crashed concrete
1" of compacted sand
Layer of polythene
Then 130mm of c35 redimix with fibers
And steel mesh sheets x6 I think

I am so glad I went with redimix!! And would advise u do as ur pad is a lot larger than mine and unless u have a couple of big mixers and 10 people u won't get as good a mix imo
With you size pad I would also get I bit more advise regarding reinforcement
Also would there not be planning and building regs involved cos of the size? Would think they have specs needed for planning

So did you get a truck in to pour your slab ?Im looking at around 8 cube of concrete so it could get real exspensive for me .How much concrete did you use ? We have 3 mixers and hopefully alot of bodies to get the job done if need be .
Planning application was pretty basic i have just stated c30 concrete base and dimensions of floor,foundations etc .They really didnt ask for much lol
 

RSOllie

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Yer came in a truck
Think it was 3cm off the top of me head
Cost me near on £400 I think I will dig the receipt out tomoz
 

rburke65

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Canfield, Ohio
These are some of the unplanned costs and hence the "general rule of thumb" of why our garages always cost twice our original estimates. Buy the rebar.
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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These are some of the unplanned costs and hence the "general rule of thumb" of why our garages always cost twice our original estimates. Buy the rebar.

Yes i think everyone starts out with great intentions on budget etc and soon realise they better either sit for months and save or take it on the chin and get on with the build . The garage "budget" never ends in my opinion lol Once its built you have years of buying things like lifts ,tool chests and all sorts of luxury items .Once your build starts im not sure if it actualy ever ends pmsl
 
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THE APPRENTICE

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NORTH LANARKSHIRE ,BONNIE SCOTLAND
Yer came in a truck
Think it was 3cm off the top of me head
Cost me near on £400 I think I will dig the receipt out tomoz

Some of the prices i have been getting dont seem to bad now tbh ollie . After some serious searching on the web and adding things up it seems by the time i buy ballast and cement im getting pretty close to the quotes for readymix.
Before i decide im gona have someone look it over for me as im not sure the amount of ballast and cement needed per cube is correct but if it is i will be getting a lorry in .really didnt expect to need the amount of ballast and cement that i apparently do .We shall see lol
 
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