Remodel current garage VS building a pole barn...??

[Zrsnopro97]

Hey all, somewhat new here. Long time lurker first time poster. I'm in a current dilemma with myself on what I want/need for my garage situation. I have always dreamed of having my own pole barn or shop at my property, and now that I'm somewhat getting serious about it I'm not sure if it's the right move or not. I'm on 1.8 acres of land so I have the space to build if I want. My current garage is an attached 2 car and measures almost 24'x24' so its decent for a 2 car. I have 1981 chevy c10 pickup hot rod and picked up another project car last year (1969 mercedes 250) and with the both of them in the garage it does get tight at times. Seemed to be comfortable when I just had the pickup in there and the other bay open to work. The things I don't like about the garage is its older, I think it was added on in the 60s or early 70s so the concrete floor is pretty cracked, ugly and unlevel, the drywall/sheetrock is pretty trashed with holes everywhere. I have always felt this garage just lacks "character", I don't mind an old garage if its packed with neat antiques and signs and stuff but mine isn't.

As for a pole barn I've been thinking a 30x40 is what I want. That's a big enough size for me to work without being too big and just filling up with "stuff". I haven't got any quotes yet, not quite at that point, but what I've been seeing is it should cost anywhere from 25k-30k. In my current situation I would have to somehow add quite a long driveway to get back there probably 200ft or so. Not sure how much that would add to the cost? How much would current property taxes rise with an extra building on site?

Now the other day I just started thinking what if I remodeled the existing garage and postponed the pole barn... reason being is I don't know if this is our forever house, the wife and I think we will be here for about 15-18 years or so and then move on when our kids are grown. I would have to have the concrete floor completely redone and Epoxied. I would like to put up bright clean white corrugated metal sheets on walls and ceiling, add a sub-panel with 220v outlets, and replace my stand-up furnace with a ceiling mounted unit to free up floor space, and add plenty of good lighting. Anyone got a ballpark estimate what I'd be looking at? Do you think that could be done for 10k-15k?

Just trying to go over Pro's and Con's of each!

Any input is appreciated.

I will try and post some pictures of my current garage situation and property tomorrow when I am off work.

 

[Jakemedic]

15-18 years is a long time. But it does fly by. I would maybe consider something smaller in size possibly? That way you can enjoy it, maybe save a bit of cash and when the time comes, sell it and recoup some of your initial investment. Just my 2 cents worth anyhow. Best of luck and remember to have fun!

 

[steaks&anvils]

If the attached garage needs what amounts to a studs in remodel, is there room to add on to the current garage? Could you go "deep" or maybe add another bay?

or go deep, add a bay and go UP adding more house room too?

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have also thought about expanding the current garage. I have space to go deeper and/or wider but I literally know nothing about construction so I'm not entirely sure what is possible and what isn't. I'm in industrial maintenance field and mechanically inclined but for some reason I just cant wrap my head around construction and home remodel stuff (never learned it and just don't get it lol). My house is a limestone ranch style home so I'm not sure what would have to happen with the roof if I were to expand.. I'll try and get some pictures of my setup tomorrow. Thanks again

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd build the post frame shop. 30x40 isn't huge or overbearing on your sized lot.

Leave the house garage for parking, keep the kids away from the project vehicles and dust/noise away from the house.
Once you get the shop built, you can freshen up the house garage, patch/paint walls and scrub,buff and seal the floor.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Thanks for the input. Here’s a couple pics of my current situation. I’m assuming it would cost about as much to expand current garage as it would to build a separate structure?

 

[Zrsnopro97]

 

[finn]

Your existing garage doesn’t look as bad, at least in pictures, as your initial post led me to believe.

I don’t know why this has to be an either-or project. Your drywall doesn’t look all that bad, certainly nothing that a $30 tub of mud, some tape and screws, along with a couple gallons of paint and some elbow grease can’t fix in a couple of weekends.

Same for the floor. A little paint and some patching goes a long way.

Ditch the space wasting furnace for a hanging one. They’re relatively inexpensive.

All in, maybe $2000 could buy you a lot, and it buys you some time before you dump money in an outbuilding.

Your estimate is low for a new building. All in, including the driveway, electrical, and heat, you’re looking at $60k+, given today’s construction costs, if you aren’t capable of doing it yourself.

Also, plan on a year lead time, at least, including plans, permits, and scheduling a contractor.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Have you actually got any quotes for a post frame bldg ?

Your garage looks decent but nothing wrong with wanting to expand.

I'd still put the new shop up, enjoy it for those 15-18 years and if you stay longer, even better.

 

[ericm]

15 years is 1/5th of a 75 year lifespan. And can easily turn into 25 or 35 years. Put up the building. But expect it to cost more than the numbers you gave.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Seeing the nice stone work of your house, I change my vote, build a new building. You can still do a small refresh on the garage too. The wife and kids will be very happy to have their garage back

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Now I’m torn lol. I guess I need to get some real quotes and see how much I’m actually looking at spending here. I have been saving spare cash to try and do this without any loans, I have about 20k saved up right now, initial goal was 25k-30k so I figured in the next year or two I’d be there. But if my initial estimates were way low than I don’t know if a building is even doable for me in the near future. It doesn’t all have to be completed at the same time either, I could do the structure and then add electric/heat at a later date and driveway at a later date.

The pics of my garage make it appear nice, I’ll get more photos up close of what I’m talking about. Walls are partial plywood/drywall/Sheetrock, holes everywhere, gaps are horrible etc etc. As for the floor it’s very dingy, I’ve tried washing it several times and it’s stained, floor is cracked and unlevel due to a makeshift drain in the center of the floor.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

 

[steaks&anvils]

Doesn't look too bad. Many of us would love to have a heated, dry, secure space to work in.

Your available budget well exceeds what would be needed to just upgrade a lot of your issues. Some these fixes will have a small pay back when you sell the house (no holes in the walls etc). Plus you can use and enjoy the space for years.

Change the furnace as you said.

Correct any electrical issues. Add outlets too.

Insulate if you have to open any walls.

Fix the holes/cracks in the drywall. Fill the nail/screw holes too. Maybe caulk the plywood seams? Then prime and paint everything a nice bright white. A nice uniform paint job will really make it look nice.

Pressure wash the floor, maybe pay a company as they might be able to get more **** off?

COVER that drain so no one turns and ankle in it! Or you lose an heirloom 10mm socket in it. Does it drain? if not, just put a solid cover on it.

Fill the cracks with sand and then a good crack "caulk", not sure what the name for this is, but they make many good products for it. There are companies that do this too.

One last garage suggestion you have not mentioned, lighting? if your existing lighting is not bright enough, consider adding more or new light fixtures.

In my past, just painting and more light have helped my work spaces a lot!

You did not mention storage or work bench? Wall cabinets etc.

Another thought, what about a large prefab "shed" building to house one car? That way you have a free bay to work in. Everybody loves having a good shed and it can be used for yard equipment later too? I wouldn't bother with a driveway to it unless you really use that car a lot...

 

[Sawdust_]

The cosmetics on your current set up are very easy to fix. Drywall work always looks horrible and daunting but it is fairly easy to do yourself and not that expensive to sub out. Plus it's a garage and it doesn't have to be perfect.
Same for the concrete. Mine is far worse but I'm able to work with it. Interlocking gym mat flooring tiles will hide everything and give you a nice walking surface.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Those are some great suggestions guys. The drain in the center of the floor technically functional but it just drains to a “pit” in the back yard, I used the drain one time when squeegeeing the floor and I could have just as easily pushed the water outside. Other than that all the drain does is collect dirt and piss you off when you roll the creeper or engine picker into it. I have (6) 4ft LED shop lights but honestly am not happy with the lighting. I feel like the floor and dingy walls eat up a lot of the good light.
Along the lines of the shed or carport I do like that idea. I was actually thinking of a simple parking pad on the outside of the garage could help a ton and be relatively simple. I could use to store a project vehicle when not being worked on or. Something like this :

 

[Beau Nugget]

I think your estimate on the price of a new garage is low too. I put up a 30x40 in 2008. No insulation, no heat. two garage doors, one man door. I did the electrical myself. And it was $25-30.

I also agree after seeing the stonework on your house that I’d put up a new garage rather than try to add on.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

I guess I need to get some actual estimates from contractors to see what kind of price I’m looking at. If we’re talking coming in at 30k-35k it’s posssible to wait an extra year and then have it done. If we’re talking about 40k+ here that might be out of my range. Do most people finance their buildings ?

 

[larry_g]

I have 1981 chevy c10 pickup hot rod and picked up another project car last year (1969 mercedes 250) and with the both of them in the garage it does get tight at times. Seemed to be comfortable when I just had the pickup in there and the other bay open to work. The things I don't like about the garage is its older, I think it was added on in the 60s or early 70s so the concrete floor is pretty cracked, ugly and unlevel, the drywall/sheetrock is pretty trashed with holes everywhere. I have always felt this garage just lacks "character", I don't mind an old garage if its packed with neat antiques and signs and stuff but mine isn't.

The highlighted area above says to me that you are a collector of stuff and this alone justifies a separate building. Also looking at your pictures I see machines for fab work, this also justifies a separate building. Fab work in a attached garage leads to dirt in the house. Two plastic cars in the garage is just the start of children's stuff that consumes space.

You also have to decide if the space is a show room or a work space. If money is controlling some of the decisions then I choose function over fashion. Epoxy the floor and your going to be fretting every time you fire up the welder.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Good points there. I think I am leaning toward a separate building that way I could have that space all to myself. Those kids toy cars just got parked there a couple weeks ago, got them for their 2nd birthday (I have twins). Plus the wife has been bitching since she has no room to park her van in the garage in the winter. We had an agreement before we bought this house that I get the garage but apparently that went out the window lol. We do have a 10x12 shed on a cement pad which houses all the lawn equipment and I was hoping to convince her to store kids toys in there but it’s not looking good.

As far as what type of work space, definitely not a show room. I work out of my garage but I also do not like unnecessary clutter and can’t be dirty either. Something clean, simple, and bright is what I’m after. This picture is a shop space I rented a couple years back and I loved it :

 

[u2slow]

There is no way a fresh building will be cheaper than improving your garage.

You can improve as much or little of the garage as you need, most likely avoid permits, and DIY at your own pace to save $$$

I had to build a detached shop, because I had no garage to improve. House not conducive to attaching one. I wasn't allowed to build a pole-barn either (not a farm property.) It had to be either a mono-slab or stem-wall foundation that reached below the frost line. Max size was a piddly 753sqft too.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

I keep going back and forth on what option is best suited for my needs. One day I like the garage remodel idea and then I wake up the next morning and think I need a separate building lol. I'm just trying to weigh out the pros and cons of each, and maybe get some input from you guys that I haven't thought of before.

Wondering if I would regret spending the money on the garage remodel instead of holding out a few more years to get a whole new building? Do I really "need" the extra building? Will I have time to actually use the building while working a full time job and raising 2 kids? Will the kids toys infiltrate my current garage to the point where I cant work at all out there? Lol too many things running through my head.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I guess I need to get some actual estimates from contractors to see what kind of price I’m looking at. If we’re talking coming in at 30k-35k it’s posssible to wait an extra year and then have it done. If we’re talking about 40k+ here that might be out of my range. Do most people finance their buildings ?

Some guys do different things. Some save the cash and other finance it with their home mortgage. Not everybody's finances are the same and what works for one may not work for the other.

You've saved cash and went without. If you would have borrowed against your home (considering if you are up to date with payments and not underwater), you could be enjoying the new shop right now. The extra you have put back could have went towards the larger payments. One other thing, depending where your loan percentage is, if you have a higher rate than what is available now, you could effectively get a building built and be less out of pocket per month but add more months back on your mortgage.

You could have the shop built with what you have and finish the rest as you get the cash or borrow the cash to do so. Another possibility is finish the shell and if you have a big box card, use them to complete the inside. Most will offer 0% financing for 6 months on purchases of $300 or more.

You need to figure out what works for you and the family.

Good points there. I think I am leaning toward a separate building that way I could have that space all to myself. Those kids toy cars just got parked there a couple weeks ago, got them for their 2nd birthday (I have twins). Plus the wife has been bitching since she has no room to park her van in the garage in the winter. We had an agreement before we bought this house that I get the garage but apparently that went out the window lol. We do have a 10x12 shed on a cement pad which houses all the lawn equipment and I was hoping to convince her to store kids toys in there but it’s not looking good.

As far as what type of work space, definitely not a show room. I work out of my garage but I also do not like unnecessary clutter and can’t be dirty either. Something clean, simple, and bright is what I’m after. This picture is a shop space I rented a couple years back and I loved it :

Well, she wants to park inside, what woman wouldn't want too ? add in the fact you now have twins and trying to put them in the van during the winter or in the rain. Make her happy, give her the parking space she needs with the house garage. Happy wife, happy life (for the most part).

 

[Daniel Dudley]

You could patch and paint those walls for less than a couple hundred bucks. You could put up a carport to park a car when you want to have more shop space for a few grand more. You know the kind. Then work on your cars. Cool vintage garages are made, not bought.

Once you start a shop project, it will take more time than you thought, and more money than you thought. It will take up your head, and take away from your projects, which will be on the back burner for lack of time and funds. When you are done, you will probably not be looking to take on a whole lot for a while, and you may have to take up chores and responsibilities you have been putting off. At some point you may wind up collecting more things to put in it. Eventually, you may refocus, and get back to some of the things you could have easily done much sooner, if you hadn't sidetracked yourself into the garage you think you should have.

I might have a different answer for you if this was your forever home. The truth of the matter is that many times having and finishing one good project car is far more productive and worthwhile than having multiple projects sapping your attention. Some of my best projects were built out in my driveway because my desire to build a car was far greater than my need to have a nice garage to feel good about.

I see you as being two or three weekends away from having a really clean and desirable garage. Make an effort right now, and put together a budget of three to five hundred dollars to put things right. While you are doing that, think about what the next project you want to tackle on your truck or car will be, and line yourself up for that. This could be a great Hot Rod Summer for you, and there is still time to make it all happen and feel great about all you have accomplished.

This is the way.

 

[steaks&anvils]

If you fix up the garage now, you will have a bright clean working space. You stated that that was what you like in a garage. Use it now and save more money. Then when you do build, the wife will get the garage, plus any value added to the house value.

If possible share with the wife and kids, as stated a dry place to load up the twins is valuable in many ways.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

A lot of good advice in the above posts, I appreciate that guys. As far as financing a building, I just don't know if I could bring myself to do it, it's just not the way I'm wired. I've never owned a credit card in my life and the only debt I have is the house. We actually just refinanced the house earlier this year to get a lower interest rate, so that's out of the question for a while. I would say I make average blue collar wages across the board so it has taken me a couple years to save up to what I have now.

The one big hurdle in this whole thing that's still bothering me though is the garage floor. I would have to take the cars out of the garage and get a long level across it to see how bad it really is, but I'm almost positive it slopes from all angles toward the center where the drain is. I guess it just bothers me; its nice to have a flat level surface when doing chassis work and alignments/suspension work on the projects.

I'm not completely heartless either, I did have a remote starter installed on the wife's van before winter last year

 

[steaks&anvils]

Cap the drain and have the floor leveled up? Ask your self how often you do the suspension and chassis work?

Waiting "until" it is the right time to build may cause you to lose years of productive time. I know that as I have put off things I wanted to do and then wasn't able to do it after all. We all have done this.

The words of wisdom are to know when to grab what you can when you can. We all struggle with that.

As your kids grow up, you will lose your time for your stuff while raising them. BUT if the garage is usable when you can get time that's good. If you build a building and then don't have time to use it, what will that be like? or if you choose garage time over kid time?

Important too, what does your wife think or want?

 

[Zrsnopro97]

I think I'm starting to see that maybe I don't "need" to big outbuilding at this stage in my life. Sure would be nice to have though lol.

The kids always come first no matter what. I am however currently on a ridiculous work schedule where we rotate shifts every 3 months. I do get a fair amount of garage time when I'm on the midnight shift on my days off. Its too hard to change sleep routines so I just stay up overnight at home while everyone else sleeps.

The wife's generally pretty reasonable with our wants/needs. I told her my dream is to have my own outbuilding and shes 100% on board with that. Just the other day I told her maybe the "garage remodel" is a better option and she was a little surprised but sounded like she would go for it.

So far I'm thinking:

-Sell/trade the stand up furnace for a ceiling mount to free up floor space
-Have a sub panel installed or at minimum a 240v outlet so I can actually use my air compressor and welder.
-Maybe get rid of my parts washer. I have used it but not really that impressed with it?
-Repair cracks in garage floor/ cap or fill drain/ power wash and see what it looks like after that.
-Maybe DIY resurface and paint? Doesnt need to be a showroom but
-Fix or replace drywall both walls and ceiling
-Maybe add some wall mounted cabinets and different work bench
-Add more lighting

 

[u2slow]

A lot of good advice in the above posts, I appreciate that guys. As far as financing a building, I just don't know if I could bring myself to do it, it's just not the way I'm wired. I've never owned a credit card in my life and the only debt I have is the house. We actually just refinanced the house earlier this year to get a lower interest rate, so that's out of the question for a while. I would say I make average blue collar wages across the board so it has taken me a couple years to save up to what I have now.

I paid for my shop with home-equity. Built to lockup with bare studs inside. It will be 8 years shortly to finally have it paid off. Have made some progress inside, and fully use the shop. Still a long ways to go.

 

[steaks&anvils]

I think I'm starting to see that maybe I don't "need" to big outbuilding at this stage in my life. Sure would be nice to have though lol.

The kids always come first no matter what. I am however currently on a ridiculous work schedule where we rotate shifts every 3 months. I do get a fair amount of garage time when I'm on the midnight shift on my days off. Its too hard to change sleep routines so I just stay up overnight at home while everyone else sleeps.

The wife's generally pretty reasonable with our wants/needs. I told her my dream is to have my own outbuilding and shes 100% on board with that. Just the other day I told her maybe the "garage remodel" is a better option and she was a little surprised but sounded like she would go for it.

So far I'm thinking:

-Sell/trade the stand up furnace for a ceiling mount to free up floor space
-Have a sub panel installed or at minimum a 240v outlet so I can actually use my air compressor and welder.
-Maybe get rid of my parts washer. I have used it but not really that impressed with it?
-Repair cracks in garage floor/ cap or fill drain/ power wash and see what it looks like after that.
-Maybe DIY resurface and paint? Doesnt need to be a showroom but
-Fix or replace drywall both walls and ceiling
-Maybe add some wall mounted cabinets and different work bench
-Add more lighting

Add check/upgrade the electrical, not just the new sub panel. New lighting may need more power etc.

You will be amazed at how a new coat of paint helps. LOL my ex-wife always painted first, then other stuff. She said she liked to see everything pretty while she worked on the other stuff. Even if she had to repaint again at the end of the remodel. Paint is cheap.

Also, if other stuff got delayed, she always had the bright fresh painted walls, not some dingy half done remodel. Just a freshly painted half done remodel.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Lol good advice there. Previous homeowner did some questionable wiring with the outdoor lights that run in the garage as seen in the pictures.. If an electrician were to re-wire the garage would the walls need to be down to studs?

 

[steaks&anvils]

Lol good advice there. Previous homeowner did some questionable wiring with the outdoor lights that run in the garage as seen in the pictures.. If an electrician were to re-wire the garage would the walls need to be down to studs?

Depends on how bad the wiring is? Also, if you want to run more outlets and light switches etc it might be easier to be bare studs.

Only you can decide how much you need to do. Get some estimates and see what it'll cost. Remember, you will need to re-plumb the heater too. Moving gas lines needs to be a certified plumber right?

It might be cheaper to get a small remodeling company to do it all? That way they contract the electrician, plumber, drywall etc

If you go down to studs, you can insulate too. Plus, it is always easier/faster to not have to fish wires through the walls/ceiling.

Wow, just listing "things" you might do, it's getting expensive. Again, only you can decide how much you want to do yourself and what to farm out?

 

[rburke65]

One can never have too many garages.....build the Pole barn. Are it 32’x 40’ ...keep it 8’ increments.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Depends on how bad the wiring is? Also, if you want to run more outlets and light switches etc it might be easier to be bare studs.

Only you can decide how much you need to do. Get some estimates and see what it'll cost. Remember, you will need to re-plumb the heater too. Moving gas lines needs to be a certified plumber right?

It might be cheaper to get a small remodeling company to do it all? That way they contract the electrician, plumber, drywall etc

If you go down to studs, you can insulate too. Plus, it is always easier/faster to not have to fish wires through the walls/ceiling.

Wow, just listing "things" you might do, it's getting expensive. Again, only you can decide how much you want to do yourself and what to farm out?

Yeah it could end up getting expensive, good thing my father is a general contractor. He does light remodel stuff inside homes, I'm sure if he's not interested in taking on this job he could teach me so I can does some of the stuff myself. I know for sure he has an electrician buddy. I actually plumbed gas lines for the heater myself, my father did the exhaust vent up through the roof.

One can never have too many garages.....build the Pole barn. Are it 32’x 40’ ...keep it 8’ increments.

I like how you think lol. My ideal dream setup is a nice finished attached garage and then the mid sized shop out back.

 

[Krfjkm]

I just finished my detached shop and turned my attention to my attached garage. It is for our daily drivers and looked a lot like yours does now— and about the same size.

Did my demo and updated the electrical. I then hired out the insulation and the drywall. $2500 total. Going to stain the floor and seal and install some Husky cabinets and call it done!

 

[Zrsnopro97]

Looks great! That’s what I’m talking about !

 

[CraigStu]

We all live differently but I would never have a detached shop. I like that my wife can come out and ask a question any time she wants. Or just hang out for a while to see what I am working on. She knows to flip the lights off and on a couple times to get my attention rather than surprise me when I am running a power saw or tool. So for you, I would be looking at adding on to the left or back of your existing garage. I like the stone but I think, w/ the right color, you can make standard siding look acceptable as an addition. You could possibly remove the stone from the left side and use it to do the front of the addition. With a garage door on the front, there isn't much left to cover w/ the stone. I have added a bay onto two 2 car garages at 2 different houses. One I just had a 4 ft wide opening in the wall to get to the new bay. One we took out almost the entire wall. In both my wife got to park next to the house and I got the other half of the original plus the new bay. Since you father is a GC, I think he could maybe do an add-on bay just finished against weather w/ the $ you have now. Make it 16-18 wide and add electrical, insulation, drywall etc as you have the $. Think of what it would do for you to have nearly double what you have now even if all it had was lights!

 

[Zrsnopro97]

We all live differently but I would never have a detached shop. I like that my wife can come out and ask a question any time she wants. Or just hang out for a while to see what I am working on. She knows to flip the lights off and on a couple times to get my attention rather than surprise me when I am running a power saw or tool. So for you, I would be looking at adding on to the left or back of your existing garage. I like the stone but I think, w/ the right color, you can make standard siding look acceptable as an addition. You could possibly remove the stone from the left side and use it to do the front of the addition. With a garage door on the front, there isn't much left to cover w/ the stone. I have added a bay onto two 2 car garages at 2 different houses. One I just had a 4 ft wide opening in the wall to get to the new bay. One we took out almost the entire wall. In both my wife got to park next to the house and I got the other half of the original plus the new bay. Since you father is a GC, I think he could maybe do an add-on bay just finished against weather w/ the $ you have now. Make it 16-18 wide and add electrical, insulation, drywall etc as you have the $. Think of what it would do for you to have nearly double what you have now even if all it had was lights!

Yeah one extra bay would be huge! Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[niget2002]

I'd look at extending the existing garage back into the yard. If you can make it long enough to put your two projects on one side and leave room for the wife's vehicle on the other. Make it a double-deep/double-wide garage.

 

[Zrsnopro97]

I was just thinking that as well. I don't have a ton of room to go lengthwise as it would be coming close to the property line. Anything that could potentially make the house look "tacky" the wife wont go for it. If I were to go straight back it would be mostly hidden. I think it would be huge to just go another 8-10 ft back. But the next question is how much $$ would this expansion cost and if its close to the price of a separate building than is it worth it? Decisions decisions but at least its all in fun.