Remote Control For Hot Water Recirculation Pump

[easyrider13]

I am building a new house which will have a garage-mounted tankless gas hot water heater. It will be equipped with a recirculating pump and timer to keep hot water in the lines to conserve water.

Rather than run the heater and pump for hours each day, I would prefer to install a wireless remote control in the kitchen, bathrooms and laundry that would turn on the recirculating pump (and heater) for perhaps 3 minutes to get hot water into the lines. This would give me the convenience of hot water at the tap without wasting gas and electricity for hours each day, not to mention extending the life of the pump.

One or two of the remotes may need to have a powerful transmitter.
Is there a good off-the-shelf solution for this?

 

[ambenz]

Why not use a room occupancy sensor near where your hot water spigots are?

You could mount it on the ceiling pointing down to the sink.
Whenever a person is at the sink, the sensor triggers the relay to start the pump!
You could set up a latch relay with a minimum on-off timer, say 3 minutes run, 3 minutes off and this way your pump won't short cycle.
They also make ******** pipe temp sensors you could add one under the sink so if the hot water pipe temp in above 90F, it wouldn't run the pump even if the occupancy sensor is triggered.
Automation for residential homes is really taking off and if I were building a home, I would thing about installing a automation controller that I could view from my personal computer.
Something with analog outputs, digital outputs and at least room for 16 inputs.

Something like this...

Installing automation for the typical home owner isn't for everyone, but with a little reading and support from the manufacture, I think home owners would find a miriad of applications they can have to make their life easier for automating systems in their home.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that most tankless units are "demand" units and aren't designed for circulation use.

Tommy

 

[larry4406]

In the houses I build which are equipped with recirc pumps, we run a switch leg off the master vanity lights to control power to the pump.

 

[_Dock_]

Not sure what kind of wattage your pump uses but I have recommended the wemo products several times on this forum.

Look into this....

http://m.belkin.com/us/F7C030/p/P-F7C030/

 

[_Dock_]

Ok maybe not a good solution. I didn't understand your application at first.

 

[CNGsaves]

With this kind of setup, is the water just re-circ'd in "loop" line to "cold" tank that is then recycled to be heated?? (ie stop in-bound city water)

Thus, no water wasted?? So pump / valves and controller??

 

[dw1]

I would say with Pex piping and put a small recirculating pump at each bathroom, thiis should be fairly easy to do, since new house wiring, add switch, maybe cheap 30 minute mechanical timer, so it shuts off automatically (Dang Kids) and not left on!!

 

[jgorm]

I use insteon stuff to control my pump. I have switches in the bathrooms, and have the pump run on a timer in the morning so I don't have to wit 5 min for it to heat up the pipes. It's not cheap, but it works well. I ended up getting into insteon just for this reason, but then I spent $1000+ buying more switches for automating my house!

 

[DNK]

I moved into a 5 year old house 2 yrs ago and have been thinking about this all the time.
My Gas HW tank has the pex pipe hanging down next to it for the recirc use.
Now MY question. I don't want it to run all the time.
If the recirc is off will the plumping still work normally?
Is there a switch available that is wireless or similar?

 

[Mustang51js]

My question is,do you need a return line for this to work. Most houses don't have a return line for the shower and sink,so without that how would the water get pushed up

 

[BD1]

Return line is required. I have a natural gas power vent water heater. All I did was run a hot water return line from fixtures back to water heater. Replaced tank drain valve with a tee using one connection for drain and one for return. No pump required. Had it this way for 30 years and works great.

 

[the gypsy]

IMHO the more we automate our houses the more expensive the repairs. I would put a switch in the different room like kitchen and washroom. Just run the pump when needed. Imagine you or your wife walk into the washroom just to see if your hair is messed up or if the wife is there to put on makeup now think of the pump and hot water heater running to heat the water and there is no need for the water. Or you go to the kitchen for a glass of water again there is waste.

 

[Mike007]

I came up what I think is a rather simple effective system for my home. I have 2 baths and a kitchen I was concerned about. I used 3 enclosed relays with 120V coils and a pump relay (basically a relay and transformer in a box) and a ******** aquastat at the end of the hot line.

I mounted the enclosed relays on the light fixtures in each location. When I turn a light on in any room, it pulls in the relay which pulls in the pump relay that turn on the pump. When the aquastat reaches 115 it breaks the low voltage leads from the relays to the pump relay. No timer or motion sensors needed.

 

[jvitez]

Here's an example of what you might be wanting:

http://www.redytemp.com/


The ideal way to have instant hot water plus the energy savings and unlimited supply that a tankless water heater allows, is to combine a small tank type water heater, a recirc pump, plus the tankless water heater.

Install a 5 gallon tank type electric water heater wherever it's convenient. Run a proper recirc line back to this with a recirc pump, eg.:

http://ca.grundfos.com/products/find-product/COMFORT.html#literature

Plumb the tankless heater to the 5 gallon tank type heater. You have hot water regularly circulating throughout the house. The recirc pump only runs when needed. The heat loss through the piping is replaced by the 5 gallon electric thank, which will only only a small amount of electricity. The tankless heater then heats the actual water used at the fixture.

 

[CNGsaves]

I came up what I think is a rather simple effective system for my home. I have 2 baths and a kitchen I was concerned about. I used 3 enclosed relays with 120V coils and a pump relay (basically a relay and transformer in a box) and a ******** aquastat at the end of the hot line.

I mounted the enclosed relays on the light fixtures in each location. When I turn a light on in any room, it pulls in the relay which pulls in the pump relay that turn on the pump. When the aquastat reaches 115 it breaks the low voltage leads from the relays to the pump relay. No timer or motion sensors needed.

^ ^ ^ Sounds simple yet effective. Can you post up PICS and specific brands and details ??

 

[joe_padavano]

Bell and Gossett sells exactly the recirc pump you are looking for under their Ecocirc brand.

http://bellgossett.com/pumps-circul...rs/ecocirc-wireless-instant-hot-water-system/

 

[404]

In the houses I build which are equipped with recirc pumps, we run a switch leg off the master vanity lights to control power to the pump.

Perfect. Solves the problem without introducing new ones.

 

[Mike007]

In the houses I build which are equipped with recirc pumps, we run a switch leg off the master vanity lights to control power to the pump.

Doesn't this limit the use of the pump to the master bath?

 

[larry4406]

Doesn't this limit the use of the pump to the master bath?

Depends on how it is piped. We pipe the hot loop so all fixtures are served, short pipes from loop to fixture. You wake up, turn the lights on while you go to the bathroom, and the entire loop is then circulating.

 

[Beemer533]

Here you go; http://www.faucetdepot.com/faucetde...30-YfcD-KyR15rZj7mS52FVh9Z_rVsYgv4aApdV8P8HAQ

Made for a retrofit, doesn't require a return line and includes a timer function.

This post edited by the NSA

 

[larry4406]

Here you go; http://www.faucetdepot.com/faucetde...30-YfcD-KyR15rZj7mS52FVh9Z_rVsYgv4aApdV8P8HAQ

Made for a retrofit, doesn't require a return line and includes a timer function.

This post edited by the NSA

These use the pump to push water back via the local cold water line at the fixture. Any other fixture on the cold leg then gets hot water.

 

[DC73]

I like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metlund-ACT...em-/331464142873?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6393

Pricey but it only runs long enough to bring the hot water to the fixture and then shuts itself off. No wasted water and no electricity wasted for continual recirculation.

DC

 

[Mike007]

Depends on how it is piped. We pipe the hot loop so all fixtures are served, short pipes from loop to fixture. You wake up, turn the lights on while you go to the bathroom, and the entire loop is then circulating.

Just my opinion, if I come in from outside to wash my hands in the kitchen I don't want to have to turn the light on in the master bath for the recirc to function. But it is simple.

 

[easyrider13]

Thanks for your responses.

The house will come with a recirculating loop with a pump and timer installed.
Rather than run the pump from the timer for hours each day, I'm looking for a remote way to turn on the pump for two or three minutes to give me hot water when I open a faucet.

 

[yeldogt]

The retrofit units put the pump at the sink or shower ... most of the units with dedicated return loops use a pump back at the water heater. Need power under the sink.

Pumps are available with both a timer and thermostat -- with insulated pipe they don't run all the time. My indirect controller came with a pump timer and I used pumps with thermostats. So they come on in the morning and for a bit in the evening -- Once the pipe heats up they run very intermitletly.

I would do some checking on how to do it with an "on demand' heater would need some check valves.

On my new build I'm going with the dedicated return again -- the idea of a switch or motion control is interesting. I have a small lot septic system -- so I can't have the wasted water of a cold loop or on demand.

 

[larry4406]

You can also pipe it in a loop, very short runs to each hot tap. Insulate this fully starting at water heater. After the last hot fixture, stop the insulation and pipe it to the bottom of the water heater via removal of the drain and a tee (put drain valve on branch of tee) and using a check valve in direction of flow towards water heater.

This sets up natural circulation with no pump needed.

 

[59 wagon man]

how far from the heater is the farthest fixture? running a tankless with a recirc line is kinda a waste unless the return line is controlled by a motion detector or light switch. in addition most tankless warranties are voided by a recirc system

 

[easyrider13]

how far from the heater is the farthest fixture? running a tankless with a recirc line is kinda a waste unless the return line is controlled by a motion detector or light switch. in addition most tankless warranties are voided by a recirc system

I am in Florida where water conservation is important and hot water recirculation is mandated for new construction.

My farthest faucet might be 125 feet away.

Standard procedure here is to put the recirculating pump on a timer to provide rapid hot water during likely usage times. I agree that while it effectively conserves water, it unnecessarily uses gas and electricity for many hours each day. For me, a wireless "on" button near each sink seems like a good option to start hot water recirculating for 2-3 minutes. I'm just looking for the right hardware to accomplish this.

 

[HoosierMark]

My master bath is the farthest from the water heater. So I just wired the switch in there and turn on the recirc pump before I jump in the shower, in no time the water comes out hot without the first burst of cold. I turn the re circ pump off before I get in the shower since it is not needed once the line is hot and that way I will not forget to turn it off. May go to one of those light timer switches if my wife keeps forgetting but that is another story. I wish I had ran a 3 way or 4 way switch set up with controls in each bath but it is only the two of us. No need for one in the kitchen as it is directly over the heater any way. Plumber wanted a timer but not me. Switch is simple, easy to maintain and lets me control when the pump runs. No need for sensors, timers, etc.

 

[DC73]

For me, a wireless "on" button near each sink seems like a good option to start hot water recirculating for 2-3 minutes. I'm just looking for the right hardware to accomplish this.

The device I linked to above comes with a momentary contact switch. Once activated, it shuts itself off automatically when it senses hot water being returned. If you can't find a wireless solution, maybe you could purchase several of the switches and run wire to each location while your house is being built.

What about a wireless remote control outlet something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/NuGiant-34000-Wireless-Remote-Control/dp/B004C1Q8PO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424098342&sr=8-1&keywords=Remote+Control+outlet+timer

You'd have to find out if additional remotes could be purchased and synced with the outlet. And, the timer feature for this one is too long for your needs but maybe they offer something else.

DC

 

[the gypsy]

Have you researched "The Lobster" in search of instant hot water. I am not sure if it will work for you but it might be an alternative.

 

[wssix99]

Subscribed.

We just put a tankless unit in our house and are putting in the recirc pump and timer in tomorrow.

Originally we sited the unit in a closet in the middle of the house, 20' from the two main bathrooms and 20' from the kitchen. Our original hope was that the "short" distance would be good enough not to need the recirculation, but that has proven not to be the case. It takes a LONG time for the water to heat up. Fortunately, my wife (also my homebuilder/contractor) put in the recirculating line for future use. Unfortunately, she didn't insulate the return lines - which is a no-no. (Our tankless manufacturer calls out insulated supply and return lines as an absolute requirement.)

We are concerned about the electricity and heat waste from just using the timer and I think the uninsulated return lines might amplify that.

I'm very interested to see what solution you pick here for the on-demand recirculation. (Our plan is to see how the timer works for a while and then go from there. Fortunately, I have structured wiring and 2+ CAT6 wires going to every room, so a low voltage control system could work for us.)

 

[ard]

Look to Laing pumps. Had two, one lasted 22 years, the other is still running.

Thermostatically controlled- so it turns off when the return line gets hot. I didnt bother with timers.

PN: LHB08100083

 

[wssix99]

Look to Laing pumps. Had two, one lasted 22 years, the other is still running.

Thermostatically controlled- so it turns off when the return line gets hot. I didnt bother with timers.

PN: LHB08100083

We purchased the timer model because we didn't want the unit running overnight, etc.

We could probably use a simple thermostat attached to a thermocouple (that thermocouple being attached to the recirculating line) to control the time and temperature ranges at which the unit would run. The thermostat would just need to control a relay to cut the pump on/off.

 

[Git]

Thanks for your responses.

The house will come with a recirculating loop with a pump and timer installed.
Rather than run the pump from the timer for hours each day, I'm looking for a remote way to turn on the pump for two or three minutes to give me hot water when I open a faucet.

Z Wave

I have been doing this for over 10 years now with my recirculator. Set the timer to always be running and then either buy an appliance module that the recirculator gets plugged into, or if you want to get fancy - buy a z wave controlled outlet

I have a remote in all of our bathrooms. The nice thing about Z Wave - is confirms the command went through with a green light, otherwise you will get a red light if it didnt work

There are more advanced setups that you can access over your phone, etc etc

Here are some examples

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BRMMDK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BJSDZO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007005364/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[ard]

We purchased the timer model because we didn't want the unit running overnight, etc.

We could probably use a simple thermostat attached to a thermocouple (that thermocouple being attached to the recirculating line) to control the time and temperature ranges at which the unit would run. The thermostat would just need to control a relay to cut the pump on/off.

Sure.

But you can buy a timer for $10 at home depot and plug it into the wall.

 

[Project-Z]

How about this wireless undersink temp controller that is paired with the ECM pump from the factory?

http://bellgossett.com/pumps-circulators/small-circulation-pumps-boosters/ecocirc-wireless-instant-hot-water-system/

 

[wssix99]

Sure.

But you can buy a timer for $10 at home depot and plug it into the wall.

Maybe you could - but we couldn't. Our outlet is not in a very accessible spot and having the timer on the end of the pump makes it a lot easier for us to adjust.

 

[wssix99]

Sure.

But you can buy a timer for $10 at home depot and plug it into the wall.

Please disregard my last comment. As I was setting up my pump, I realized that you meant using a wall timer with their thermostatically controlled pump.