Removing a roll pin

[NUTTSGT]

Any thoughts ?



Back story, I bought this at the track this past weekend to replace my distributor. When I bought it, we knew that the roll pin was only put in from one side but to make the True Street cruise and race the rest of the weekend, I used it. During the first round of eliminations on Sunday, the gear spun on the shaft.

It's an MSD Pro-billet distributor and worst case scenario, I can cut the gear to get the pin out but then I'll have to replace the gear too. I have new spiral pins coming from MSD to replace this one and the one on my old distributor. I've used a rol-loc sanding disc to make it flush and easier to drill, which I have started to but I'm going very slow as to not wobble the hole out.

Anybody got any other ideas ?

 

[WhiffySpark]

An extractor might grab it?

 

[txvwnut]

If the gear spun on the shaft why not just press it off the shaft. Then you can press out what's left of the pin from the gear and shaft.

 

[NUTTSGT]

An extractor might grab it?

It's only an 1/8" and I don't have one that small. Do they even make one that small ?

 

[NUTTSGT]

If the gear spun on the shaft why not just press it off the shaft. Then you can press out what's left of the pin from the gear and shaft.

I considered that also, I tried to see if a gear puller would even budge it and no dice. It's a bronze gear so I need to be careful.

 

[WhiffySpark]

It's only an 1/8" and I don't have one that small. Do they even make one that small ?

They do but I'm not sure if it'll work. If you can see where the pin is split you may be able to collapse it with a punch and wiggle it out

You should probably wait for other people to chime in. Just giving you ideas

 

[ravenlord]

Have you attempted to drill the roll pin out?

 

[raiderhillbilly]

Use a fine threaded tap just slightly big enough to make threads on the inside.
Screw in a long enough screw to get a good grip on.
Clamp the screw in a vise and whack it with a soft face hammer.

May even use a dent puller or similar improvised device.

 

[laser3kw]

Dremel tool with small straight burr 9904

Dremel 9904

Dremel catalog

 

[no704]

Use a fine threaded tap just slightly big enough to make threads on the inside.
Screw in a long enough screw to get a good grip on.
Clamp the screw in a vise and whack it with a soft face hammer.

May even use a dent puller or similar improvised device.

This and a slide hammer.

 

[kerrynzl]

Normally you can punch the roll-pin right through , but if the gear has spun it means the roll-pin has shear off into 3 pieces [and highly unlikely to lie up]

Just use a small puller to drag the gear off the shaft. It will leave grooves but these can be polished later.
Then use a punch to tap through the 3 individual pieces

 

[dwp99]

If the gear spins on the shaft just turn and tap turn and tap until you get it aligned with the hole in the shaft, then drive all 3 pieces out.

If you sheared that pin you better look into why it happened.

Did something lock up in the distributor? Is the oil pump tight? oil pressure relief valve stuck?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Have you attempted to drill the roll pin out?

Yes, I did and broke a couple of smaller bits. . . 1/16" and 3/32". Fortunately none of them were deep enough to get stuck inside.

 

[NUTTSGT]

They do but I'm not sure if it'll work. If you can see where the pin is split you may be able to collapse it with a punch and wiggle it out

You should probably wait for other people to chime in. Just giving you ideas

I know, that's why I posted the question here, somebody always has a good idea. . . good or bad.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Use a fine threaded tap just slightly big enough to make threads on the inside.
Screw in a long enough screw to get a good grip on.
Clamp the screw in a vise and whack it with a soft face hammer.

May even use a dent puller or similar improvised device.

I made an improvised dent puller to use if I could grab hold of it and the screw would have been a #6 or a smaller #4. I matched a #8 screw up and it would have been too big.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Dremel tool with small straight burr 9904

Dremel 9904

Dremel catalog

Very interesting, I didn't know Dremel made a carbide that small. I might have to pick one up just to have it for future use. Thanks.

 

[MattVette89]

Is the gear only drilled on one side? I've seen that in some aftermarket distributor drive gears. If there's no way to tap it out with a pin punch, I'd try to drill it or pull it with a slide hammer as suggested.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Normally you can punch the roll-pin right through , but if the gear has spun it means the roll-pin has shear off into 3 pieces [and highly unlikely to lie up]

Just use a small puller to drag the gear off the shaft. It will leave grooves but these can be polished later.
Then use a punch to tap through the 3 individual pieces

If the gear spins on the shaft just turn and tap turn and tap until you get it aligned with the hole in the shaft, then drive all 3 pieces out.

If you sheared that pin you better look into why it happened.

Did something lock up in the distributor? Is the oil pump tight? oil pressure relief valve stuck?

The hole was never drilled all the way through the back side of the gear, just through one side. This is why I couldn't punch it back through.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is the gear only drilled on one side? I've seen that in some aftermarket distributor drive gears. If there's no way to tap it out with a pin punch, I'd try to drill it or pull it with a slide hammer as suggested.

Yes, only drilled one side.

Like txvwnut suggested and I was holding off, I went ahead and put it in the press. I went slow and it did come apart. You can see a slight egg shape of the hole in the shaft.





Now that it is apart, I'm going to drill a new hole completely through the gear and shaft after turning it 90°.

 

[MattVette89]

Yes, only drilled one side.

Like txvwnut suggested and I was holding off, I went ahead and put it in the press. I went slow and it did come apart. You can see a slight egg shape of the hole in the shaft.





Now that it is apart, I'm going to drill a new hole completely through the gear and shaft after turning it 90°.

I wouldn't drill a completely new hole. If it is egged I would enlarge it slightly and use a larger roll pin.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I wouldn't drill a completely new hole. If it is egged I would enlarge it slightly and use a larger roll pin.

I have spiral pins on order from MSD already for the correct size. Going up to a 3/16 isn't going to work I believe. Chevy uses a .500 diameter shaft where as a SBF is only a .468.

We ordered some (3/16") from Allstar already and they just look too big. MSD also recommends that you turn the gear 90° and redrill, same thought as my buddy who is helping me.

 

[MattVette89]

I didn't realize MSD suggested that. Go with that recommendation!

 

[extropic]

Don't drill a new hole. Don't use a larger pin.

Use a "coiled spring pin".

Manufacturer's design guide; http://www.spirol.com/library/main_catalogs/SPIROL-Coiled-Spring-Pins-Design-Guide-us.pdf

Easily available; http://www.mcmaster.com/#coiled-spring-pins/=13abnsw

 

[Wanna Ride]

I guess some guys don't read the whole thread before they post.

Done a bunch of these in the past, and never fun. Usually, when they shear, they do just as yours did, and distort the pin on the ends, where they shear. When that happens, they really don't like to line up and punch out, and often the hole also distorts. Been to MSD's shop in El Paso several times, and yes, they suggest redrill at 90*.

 

[rsanter]

They suggested to drill the gear or the shaft?
I would not drill another hole in that shaft as it will weaken the shaft and that drives the oil pump.
Drill a hole in the gear I would buy into and if it was me I would drill all the way through so there are two locations on the pin that are driving the shaft and not just one

Bob

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I wonder how a stud welder would work on that?
the gear is a big enough heat sink it should be unaffected.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I didn't realize MSD suggested that. Go with that recommendation!

Yes, that's what they recommend, otherwise they say the pin will come out if the hole is reused.

I spent a little time with them on the phone the other day. I also asked about buying a replacement shaft if need be. I was told that the new shaft will come undrilled for either roll pin (collar above gear) and I could also send the distributior and and have it rebuilt. The max cost for the latter is $112, however, I didn't think to ask if it came with a new gear. If it does, that would definitely be the way to go, considering a steel gear is $77 and bronze is about $45.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Don't drill a new hole. Don't use a larger pin.

Use a "coiled spring pin".

Manufacturer's design guide; http://www.spirol.com/library/main_catalogs/SPIROL-Coiled-Spring-Pins-Design-Guide-us.pdf

Easily available; http://www.mcmaster.com/#coiled-spring-pins/=13abnsw

What MSD sells is a spiral pin like what you linked, they are on order and should be in the mail.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I guess some guys don't read the whole thread before they post.

Done a bunch of these in the past, and never fun. Usually, when they shear, they do just as yours did, and distort the pin on the ends, where they shear. When that happens, they really don't like to line up and punch out, and often the hole also distorts. Been to MSD's shop in El Paso several times, and yes, they suggest redrill at 90*.

It seems the holes are never perfectly on center either and the pins will only go in from one side.

I'd guess you are fairly local to their shop if you have visited there.

 

[BD1]

Glad you got it. They do make roll pin punches that may have helped.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Glad you got it. They do make roll pin punches that may have helped.

My buddy has a set of them and they are nice. Fortunately, I don't need to buy a set as I wouldn't use them that often.... but this is GJ.

 

[mason_tay]

Make sure you get the right gear for your camshaft. If you use a steel one and needed a bronze it will eat your cam up and vice versa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wanna Ride]

I'd guess you are fairly local to their shop if you have visited there.

No, I have a friend that lives there, and have visited several times.

 

[MP&C]

The size of the roll pin also serves as a "shear pin" if you have any oil pump issues. Changing to a larger size may affect that safety margin. I've always aligned the old holes and redrill BOTH the gear and shaft at a 90 to the original. If the hole is damaged, don't use it again...

 

[NUTTSGT]

UPS dropped off my roll pins just a few minutes ago.

$3.10 for roll pins and another $10 for shipping.

This is an end shot to show these differ from a regular roll pin, technically speaking, these are properly called Spiral pins I believe.

 

[crguy]

Glad you got it. They do make roll pin punches that may have helped.

Tell us how you would use those when the pin is in a blind hole.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I finished up both distributors this evening. Call this project completed.

 

[ChevyEFI]

You're set up with a much better roll pin design now. I use 3/16" in transmission stuff a lot. With the better design, you shouldn't be concerned about drilling through & using the longer pin. For that matter, two interference points with a stronger pin is better than 1 interference point with a half-*** pin. That's what you did have.

Sorry you broke @ the track over this.

 

[MP&C]

Nicely done Eric!

 

[Kevin54]

Eric....just out of curiosity, did you go back through the same hole and enlarge it, or did you drill a new hole 90 degrees off? I'm assuming you went through the same hole.

You could have used another 1/8" pin. The wallered out portion of the hole is just at the opening of the hole on each side where the pin was bent. The center most portion of the hole would still be round. Plus with a coiled pin, they are slightly oversize anyways by a few thousandths.