Replacing 50s Vintage Jacobs Chuck - Stud Mounted Chuck?

[Hoopy Frood]

Finally, my first post in the vintage tool forum! I've always wanted to post in here, but have not had time for "leisure" forum activities. Fate has forced my hand... to what end? We shall see...

My drill was in the process of dying so I decided to look for a vintage replacement at my favorite used tool place. I found a very odd unit. I believe it to be a 1950s model from Black & Decker. There's not much info out there on this "U-500 Power Driver":
http://powertoolstudy.blogspot.com/2011/06/black-and-decker-u-500-drill.html

It's an amazing little drill really. It ran in the store and sounded tip-top, so I took it home. Unfortunately I didn't think to check the chuck at the time and now that I've actually tried to use it the chuck is pretty much trashed. I tried for a couple hours to get it apart. I'm not sure if you're supposed to use something like a bearing press to remove the sleeve. Even if I get it apart I'm not sure it will be repairable - you REALLY have to force the sleeve with the chuck key to get it to move at all. Generous use of PB Blaster certainly helped, but the chuck needs real work.

The chuck is a vintage Jacobs "Multi-Craft" 1/4" Chuck:
http://www.jacobschuck.com/jacobs-30243d-1-4-multi-craft-drill-chuck.html

As far as I can tell this is a light duty chuck that is not meant to be rebuilt like some of Jacobs better chucks. So I thought "No problem, I'll just replace it with a new chuck."

The problem is this chuck appears to be mounted on a stud. It's very common for chucks to be threaded with 3/8-24 (or whatever size) female threads to go onto a threaded spindle that's the drill's output shaft.

But this little chuck seems to have 3/8-24 MALE threads... the "spindle" in the drill is recessed 3/8-24 female threads in the center of the final drive gear. Some pics are attached below to clarify...

Even the current Jacobs "Multi-Craft" chuck has the female threads that are so common.

I will write to Jacobs about this to see if they can help. Any info I get I'll post to this thread...

But I'm quite new to drill repairs. I know chucks can be mounted to other kinds of attachments, but I'm not familiar with them. Is there something I'm ignorant of that could make replacing this chuck easier?

It seems like I could just get some 3/8-24 threaded rod and make basically a ****** that could attach a new chuck to the drill. Is that a lame idea?

I really do want to make this work because this drill is in REALLY nice shape. I've been over it top to bottom. Purrs like a kitten, surprisingly nice ergonomics, built like a tank... I'd hate for a lousy chuck to torpedo an otherwise great tool.

Fingers crossed!

 

[454ragtop]

I'd check to see if you could find a long 3/8"-24 set screw, should work perfect, although the threaded rod should work as well. The set screw is likely stronger though. It just so happens I have a new NOS Jacobs chuck if you go that route, $10.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Will this help... can use any female 3/8 chuck then.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Jacobs...193408?hash=item28266a5040:g:Q1gAAOSwJ7RYT1OR

For future reference, the listing is for Jacobs AD6161 3/8 to 3/8 male adapter.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I'd check to see if you could find a long 3/8"-24 set screw, should work perfect, although the threaded rod should work as well. The set screw is likely stronger though. It just so happens I have a new NOS Jacobs chuck if you go that route, $10.

I will look into set screws and pricing, that just may be an answer, but I'll definitely look into the adapter Buckgnarly mentioned.

Which NOS Jacobs chuck do you have? A Multi-Craft? I might be interested in it

Will this help... can use any female 3/8 chuck then.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Jacobs...193408?hash=item28266a5040:g:Q1gAAOSwJ7RYT1OR

For future reference, the listing is for Jacobs AD6161 3/8 to 3/8 male adapter.

I had no idea there was such a thing! Thank you so much for pointing it out! I'll look at set screw pricing just for fun, but that might be the ticket. I wonder if there is one in the old Multi-Craft right now? That flange is pretty tell-tale. If there is I'll have to see if I can remove it without damaging it...

I'll update the thread with the actual solution once I get it done.

Thank you both for the help!

 

[454ragtop]

Yep, the one I have is a multi craft.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I checked the stock MC chuck and it does indeed have a stud; it's not removable. Looks like an adapter or set screw is definitely needed.

Yep, the one I have is a multi craft.

Awesome! What do you think shipping will cost? My zip is 04987. I'll start shopping around and I'll PM you when I've decided which way to go.

Thanks again!!

 

[454ragtop]

Figure $4 or $5 at the most for shipping, it's small enough and light enough it can go first class.

 

[Rory Bellows]

I took apart a chuck several years ago. I drilled a hole in a 2x4 just smaller than the sleeve and used another block of wood and decent sized hammer and the got the sleeve off. This was a Jacobs chuck on a cole drill. I saw it somewhere on the net and it worked for me. The chuck probably has junk in the scroll ways. Mark the jaws because they are specific to each slot.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Figure $4 or $5 at the most for shipping, it's small enough and light enough it can go first class.

PM on the way!

I took apart a chuck several years ago. I drilled a hole in a 2x4 just smaller than the sleeve and used another block of wood and decent sized hammer and the got the sleeve off. This was a Jacobs chuck on a cole drill. I saw it somewhere on the net and it worked for me. The chuck probably has junk in the scroll ways. Mark the jaws because they are specific to each slot.

I had read the caution of the different jaws in the Jacobs lit. But thank you for the caution. The wood block method is a great idea though I'm very limited in my larger (anything over 1/2") hole drilling options. But I'll see if I can work a solution... I have friends with both extensive hole saw collections and bearing pressing equipment. I'll figure something out Thanks a bunch!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

UPDATE!

I do not yet have replacement chucks but I did repair the original Jacobs Multi-Craft chuck!

Rory Bellow's suggestion was brilliant. I only have a 1/2" twist drill bit, a 1" spade bit and a 2" Forsner bit. Luckily the 1" spade bit made the perfect hole for the 1/4" Multi-Craft chuck. I used a dead blow hammer and a block of wood on the jaws to drive the chuck body down into the hole while the sleeve rested on the block of wood.

It took a bit of work to get the jaws out. Things were pretty gummed up. Some PB Blaster and a brass wire brush got most of it perfect. The scroll ways for the jaws did have crud in them. Q-tips were a big help.

Per the Jacobs instructions:
http://www.jacobschuck.com/keyed-drill-chuck-repair-guide

...I put the jaws back in in the proper order, but I rotated them by one scroll way in the chuck body. I don't think the scroll ways are MEANT to have any particular jaw in them, but mine decidedly fit much better in a specific position other than what it was when I took it apart (I recorded jaws AND their scroll ways). Perhaps the chuck was worn in that way and some well-intentioned soul took it apart and didn't realize this in reassembly?

Some nice lithium grease on the nut and jaw threads then smacked it back together!

Before I could barely operate the chuck with a chuck key. Now it's perfectly smooth and effortless to operate!

I am planning on buying a grade 8 bolt to try to make an adapter so I can put other chucks on the drill. I can't find any set screw long enough (I think ideally it needs to be 1 1/8" long). But that is upcoming.

For now I have a perfectly working 1950s drill! This is going to be my daily drill, too.

If I get the home made adapter to work, I'll update this thread. I just can't see spending $10 on something that should be solved with only $1-$2

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Update!

Since I couldn't find any individual set screws of sufficient length I did indeed try making a 3/8-24 male adapter out of a grade 8 bolt. And it was a resounding success! This is probably not something anyone with a day job (or at least doesn't have concerns with dropping $10 on a screw-type part) would want to mess with.

Yet adventures in homesteading took me down the path!

A 1 1/2" Grade 8 3/8-34 has just about 1 1/8" of threads on it which was twice the length of the stud on the stock chuck.

I cut the bolt head off with a cutoff wheel in the angle grinder. This was far harder than it should have been because I don't have a bench vise. Yes, that's very high on my list of priorities (long story).

I have a very cheap-o tap and die set (carbon steel) from Amazon. I wish I could afford a real tap and die set. In time I will get them (and a bench vise, and a sawzall, and a bench grinder, etc). But if a person is like me I'd highly recommend running the bolt through the die BEFORE cutting the hex head off. That way the die can easily be run down the threaded shaft to the cut-off end with no hassles once the head is actually cut off.

I cut THEN chased the threads hoping to cut threads into the last little part where angle grinder was working. My cheap-o die could not chase the grade 8 threads with finger pressure since I had no bolt head to work with.

Eventually I figured it out in spite of having a couple embedded troubles along the way. I also had to use both a flat file and a Dremmel to clean up the end worked by the cutoff wheel before cutting the last threads.

With a good plan and/or a good die set this job should have taken 10 or 15 minutes. It took me an hour, but I'm still learning and slow at everything.

Hopefully this will be tougher than any other part of the drill!! I now have a 3/8" chuck as well. But with this stud I can affix any old 3/8-24 female chuck to this drill!

Viva Ray! That's the drill's name since he looks like a ray gun