and he continues with spam.
when you can't do anything but say **** about people who don't jump on your bandwagon, throw more insults and spam..........
Rest In Peace Dewalt Flexvolt.
- Thread starter kctyphoon
- Start date
- Status
and he continues with spam.
when you can't do anything but say **** about people who don't jump on your bandwagon, throw more insults and spam..........
I agree,I don't even go into the Milwaukee thread anymore........blah.....blah....blah
WittHay
Well-known member
The Milwaukee thread seems to be a group of about 10 people talking about the latest products and best deals. My area DeWalt rules in the DIY market. Makita is 2nd and Milwaukee third. In the industrial Makita and Milwaukee are about equal. Most places sell at least 2 brands and they are given equal space and advertising. There is no in your face ads or promotions or beating anybody.
It doesn't matter if Milwaukee comes out with 200 new products, there is always going to be something they don't make or somebody makes better. Probably gonna purchase a Flexvolt 6" grinder for cutting off steel posts. Far as i know Milwaukee does not make a 6" cordless grinder.
It doesn't matter if Milwaukee comes out with 200 new products, there is always going to be something they don't make or somebody makes better. Probably gonna purchase a Flexvolt 6" grinder for cutting off steel posts. Far as i know Milwaukee does not make a 6" cordless grinder.
Definitely regional, I had/have some time off of work and started plumbing with a buddy for a few weeks and thus far, the job sites are all mostly red. Only person I've seen with dewalt so far is the electrician.
That said this varies probably region to region, and field to field. At my full time job the two service trucks are equipped with Dewalt tools (Tho a milwaukee grease gun is thrown in) The dewalt XR compact drill we got will snap your wrist, that things no joke and the old Nicad impact we have sees use everyday and just keeps trucking. I personally am trying to get these guys to get an M12 ratchet as well, but maybe I'm just spoiled.
At home I bought Milwaukee because is was on sale at the time and their 12v lineup has more usable tools for me. That said I don't think Dewalt nor Makita will ever die, the top three all have strengths and weaknesses and will probably change positions of "power" over time too. For me personally I'd give that number one spot to Milwaukee at the moment for reasons stated above, others may value other tools more or less and give that position to dewalt.
I'd like to see a complete breakdown of both the 12v and 18v lines and a comparison between the two brands, whos got that? Link it up!
dutchgray
Well-known member
Over here in the UK Makita is by far the biggest in power tools, then Dewalt, then the others of which Milwaukee is a real small player, but I don't think Milwaukee was even available pre TTI ownership and I personally have never seen a corded Milwaukee tool and only a few cordless in use.
dutchgray
Well-known member
Ign
Well-known member
I don't give a **** what anyone uses if it GETS THE JOB DONE.
I enjoy tools so they're a bit of a hobby but I also make a living w them. Everyday.
If the work is completed to my standards and I can issue an invoice, nothing else matters.
You simply can NOT argue that "X" ***** if it completes the task in a manner acceptable to the operator.
WittHay
Well-known member
Interesting I was wondering how well TTI's brands sell in other countries. Ryobi and Milwaukee seem to be sold in Europe and Australia. AEG seems to be sold all over the world except North America
bob15
Well-known member
See page 2: http://doc.irasia.com/listco/hk/techtronic/annual/2017/ar2017.pdf
sales by business (TTI):
Power equipment and hand tools: 84.7%
Floor car: 15.3%
Sales by region: North America 76.3%, Europe 15.2%, rest of the world: 8.5%
DFB
Well-known member
Most all I know are pretty much RED now. Cordered and cordless. I steadily work with plumbing and heating specialist's, electricians, refrigeration techs and excavation/concrete.
I personally carried Makita for years when Dewalt was all the rage back in the late 80's and the 90's but I don't see it much now around me. The most Dewalt I have seen recently was when my boss contracted with some Pennsylvania based guys a couple of years ago for a barn because they wore the hat and suspenders
So he figured they had to be good. Werent bad builders but that turned out to be a good hit and run too. I ended renovating a new construction job just so he could pass local code and get his CO.
Down at the motorcycle shop its Milwaukee for bandsaw and sawzall Some of the new hand tools are Milwaukee now too. He has a Makita impact because his GF gave him one for a Christmas present so he definetly HAS to use it
At the diesel truck shop where the his motorcycle crash was a few months they pulled out Milwaukee Fuel sawzall to cut the machine from where it was stuck under that SUV bumper.
The local machine and plumbing sales front is most all Milwaukee.
Places like HD of course offer almost everything
Interesting just the other day I went with my pal he had paperwork for the Doc dealing with the crash too I was sitting outside waiting watching this local contracted construction project progress I was mildly surprised as they were picking up A LOT of Milwaukee. Mostly cordless grinders and sawzall. Sure they don't make a 6 but the original Fuel can use a 5" disc and the release will be 9" if I remember right
I often see a lot of Snapon cordless goes up for sale over on that FB board that makes tool deals mostly sells Milwaukee. And its popular with many mechanics there and not just a few here on GJ
You do see a lot of Hilti still at most commercial sites
Normally no one brand is far superior than another and MOST of the BUILDING contractors I know have a mix of tools mostly for bigger things...table saws, chop saws etc., and air pneumatic stuff. Sometimes you have no choice. Neither Milwaukee or Makita does a cordless framing nailer as far I remember. Nor does anyone do a small finish nail compressor except Ridgid I believe.
I often like the small sizing of Makita offerings often lightweight but dual battery handheld tools don't cut it for me sorry. Stationary tools sure.
Milwaukee cordless is certainly getting overwhelming with the amount of options and variations on certain tools lately. And especially when you buy a tool barely get it dirty and they offer an improved version Another 7-1/4 saw WTF?
But cutting the cord is where it's at for many of us and time is money. I love razzing my buddy at the motorcycle business, old school he's so tied to his shop by extension cords and an air hoses its almost funny these days
Old tech works sure, but you have to competitive in business too. A good example is my GC bud last job in November it gets gets dark early, too early and cold. Now he's got the homeowners window open to get to electric on this house. Everything plugged in table saw, lights poppin breakers
Couldn't see well outside either with those crummy lights.
I'm often under pressure all the time doing maintenance for a huge business. So they can keep coming out with better and more powerful cordless options If it works out... great for me and once in a battery platform its in your benefit if your guy has innovation.
I work on farm with 5 out buildings having no electricity...cordless is the only way to go for me. Ready to go when my boss hollers. I have piles of extension cords I rarely take out with me anymore.
Sure a joe doing a one off job can always take his time its his money and his project
Oh btw I have a pal is very skilled finish carpenter who once was payroll but the way things are today is now contract same employer but has to provide his own tools. I never seen so much Ryobi in my life Its all he buys and uses
Swears buy it too
Oh boy did KC yank a few chains here
I personally carried Makita for years when Dewalt was all the rage back in the late 80's and the 90's but I don't see it much now around me. The most Dewalt I have seen recently was when my boss contracted with some Pennsylvania based guys a couple of years ago for a barn because they wore the hat and suspenders
So he figured they had to be good. Werent bad builders but that turned out to be a good hit and run too. I ended renovating a new construction job just so he could pass local code and get his CO. Down at the motorcycle shop its Milwaukee for bandsaw and sawzall Some of the new hand tools are Milwaukee now too. He has a Makita impact because his GF gave him one for a Christmas present so he definetly HAS to use it
At the diesel truck shop where the his motorcycle crash was a few months they pulled out Milwaukee Fuel sawzall to cut the machine from where it was stuck under that SUV bumper.
The local machine and plumbing sales front is most all Milwaukee.
Places like HD of course offer almost everything
Interesting just the other day I went with my pal he had paperwork for the Doc dealing with the crash too I was sitting outside waiting watching this local contracted construction project progress I was mildly surprised as they were picking up A LOT of Milwaukee. Mostly cordless grinders and sawzall. Sure they don't make a 6 but the original Fuel can use a 5" disc and the release will be 9" if I remember right
I often see a lot of Snapon cordless goes up for sale over on that FB board that makes tool deals mostly sells Milwaukee. And its popular with many mechanics there and not just a few here on GJ
You do see a lot of Hilti still at most commercial sites
Normally no one brand is far superior than another and MOST of the BUILDING contractors I know have a mix of tools mostly for bigger things...table saws, chop saws etc., and air pneumatic stuff. Sometimes you have no choice. Neither Milwaukee or Makita does a cordless framing nailer as far I remember. Nor does anyone do a small finish nail compressor except Ridgid I believe.
I often like the small sizing of Makita offerings often lightweight but dual battery handheld tools don't cut it for me sorry. Stationary tools sure.
Milwaukee cordless is certainly getting overwhelming with the amount of options and variations on certain tools lately. And especially when you buy a tool barely get it dirty and they offer an improved version Another 7-1/4 saw WTF?
But cutting the cord is where it's at for many of us and time is money. I love razzing my buddy at the motorcycle business, old school he's so tied to his shop by extension cords and an air hoses its almost funny these days
Old tech works sure, but you have to competitive in business too. A good example is my GC bud last job in November it gets gets dark early, too early and cold. Now he's got the homeowners window open to get to electric on this house. Everything plugged in table saw, lights poppin breakers
Couldn't see well outside either with those crummy lights.
I'm often under pressure all the time doing maintenance for a huge business. So they can keep coming out with better and more powerful cordless options If it works out... great for me and once in a battery platform its in your benefit if your guy has innovation.
I work on farm with 5 out buildings having no electricity...cordless is the only way to go for me. Ready to go when my boss hollers. I have piles of extension cords I rarely take out with me anymore.
Sure a joe doing a one off job can always take his time its his money and his project
Oh btw I have a pal is very skilled finish carpenter who once was payroll but the way things are today is now contract same employer but has to provide his own tools. I never seen so much Ryobi in my life Its all he buys and uses
Swears buy it too
Oh boy did KC yank a few chains here
bob15
Well-known member
Facts don't care about your feelings.
what fact?
dutchgray
Well-known member
AEG is cheap junk, I haven't even seen any in diy use, the old stuff was good I recently bought a used 12" grinder, I see it about occasionally. Ryobi is popular with the diy types, in the blue days it was considered a cheap and cheerful brand for pros, especially the corded stuff.
When you consider Europe and North America has roughly similar populations you can see just how badly TTI does here, I know some of Europe is relatively poorer but it still a lot less sales. Makita has been operating a UK business since 1972, they manufacture more than a million tools here every year, the only power tool company to do so on a large scale.
WWheeler
Well-known member
Attachments
Ign
Well-known member
FMC1959
Well-known member
Not sure if it is still the case but in Canada, Milwaukee was exclusive to Home Depot - for national retailers - like Lowes, Cdn Tire, Home Hardware, Rona...etc
Me too!
I need to get the old lady one of those.
xin
Well-known member
Me too!
WHERE did you get the 2 STROKE IMPACT !!!
I've been thinking that for a long, long time. A few come to mind.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
no ****. what facts?
and my feelings? feelings have nothing to do with it. what about respect? what about manners? you insult everyone who doesn't agree with you or follow the line. you are a big man behind the keyboard but i doubt any other place.
milwaukee should pay you "not" to endorse their tools.
So my playful statement of Milwaukee's new innovations placing Dewalt's leading (and multiple) battery platform behind in the curve (once again) - you find as a person insult?? Lol.. I believe the only person showing a lack of respect and manners in here is you - since you've personally insulted me (not that I care) and cried for the moderators to intervene simply because you disagree with me..
Oh - and the FACTS - are Milwaukee just announced two new battery pack designs, and newly designed Powerstate Brushless motors, one of which is advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp 110v tool - in an 18v cordless package. So to clarify - they basically took the perception of the NEED for high voltage, low amp hour batteries, or the need for multiple battery packs to power higher voltage cordless tools - and body slammed it. Maybe that's what's got you **** hurt.. I just assumed it was a stick. I sincerely apologize for the confusion.
If you can't come in here and enjoy yourself - you're taking things too seriously..
Oh - and the FACTS - are Milwaukee just announced two new battery pack designs, and newly designed Powerstate Brushless motors, one of which is advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp 110v tool - in an 18v cordless package. So to clarify - they basically took the perception of the NEED for high voltage, low amp hour batteries, or the need for multiple battery packs to power higher voltage cordless tools - and body slammed it. Maybe that's what's got you **** hurt.. I just assumed it was a stick. I sincerely apologize for the confusion.
If you can't come in here and enjoy yourself - you're taking things too seriously..
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Farmall450
Well-known member
What he said.
PelicanPines
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Are you saying Dewalt is Yellow?...
So my playful statement of Milwaukee's new innovations placing Dewalt's leading (and multiple) battery platform behind in the curve (once again) - you find as a person insult?? Lol.. I believe the only person showing a lack of respect and manners in here is you - since you've personally insulted me (not that I care) and cried for the moderators to intervene simply because you disagree with me..
Oh - and the FACTS - are Milwaukee just announced two new battery pack designs, and newly designed Powerstate Brushless motors, one of which is advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp 110v tool - in an 18v cordless package. So to clarify - they basically took the perception of the NEED for high voltage, low amp hour batteries, or the need for multiple battery packs to power higher voltage cordless tools - and body slammed it. Maybe that's what's got you **** hurt.. I just assumed it was a stick. I sincerely apologize for the confusion.
If you can't come in here and enjoy yourself - you're taking things too seriously..
don't let your head get in the way, i find no insult in anything that milwaukee or any other mfg. does. i truly don't care. what is somewhat troublesome is the fact that you tell someone they have a stick up their *** and then try to tell everyone else that you are the upstanding member and only laying out the "facts". pretty sure most people know who the civil one is.
LoL and you believe that marketing BS? 15 amps at 120v is 1800 watts...to get that energy out of an 18v battery it would need to be able to discharge at 100 amps which alone is pretty unlikely....but let's assume you could actually withdraw 100 amps without the thing melting into a hot pile of goo, it would last AT BEST 7 minutes on a 12ah battery.So my playful statement of Milwaukee's new innovations placing Dewalt's leading (and multiple) battery platform behind in the curve (once again) - you find as a person insult?? Lol.. I believe the only person showing a lack of respect and manners in here is you - since you've personally insulted me (not that I care) and cried for the moderators to intervene simply because you disagree with me..
Oh - and the FACTS - are Milwaukee just announced two new battery pack designs, and newly designed Powerstate Brushless motors, one of which is advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp 110v tool - in an 18v cordless package. So to clarify - they basically took the perception of the NEED for high voltage, low amp hour batteries, or the need for multiple battery packs to power higher voltage cordless tools - and body slammed it. Maybe that's what's got you **** hurt.. I just assumed it was a stick. I sincerely apologize for the confusion.
If you can't come in here and enjoy yourself - you're taking things too seriously..
Can't deny physics.
What they've actually done is produced a fairly efficient brushless motor design which puts out a bit more power than their last drills did. Here's the thing you clearly don't get though, it doesn't mean milwaukee is the be all end all of power tools and if you don't run their latest greatest stuff you'll never be able to drill a hole in a piece of wood lol
Let me put it another way...
A Dewalt drill is a BMW M240i
A Milwaukee drill is a Mercedes CLA45 AMG
A Makita drill is an Audi S3
The Merc has the most power, but the BMW handles the best, and the Audi has the nicest interior. All 3 cars are great vehicles and believe it or not, the BMW and Audi will get you to your destination just like the Merc.
And the new 18v table saw is producing 500 more rpm and is almost 7 pounds lighter than its 60v competition
First ever 1" cordless impact wrench coming btw.. completely different model than the current 1/2" and 3/4".
Can we guess who the middle contender is in the circular saw demo?
https://mobile.twitter.com/milwaukeetool?lang=en
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Way to ignore the actual post.
Also, you do realize that they are just drawing more current to make up for the voltage difference right? Let's say both are 1000 watts of output, at 18v you're drawing 55 amps, at 60v (actually 54v ignoring the marketing numbers) you're drawing 18 amps. In the end, same actual power. RPM does not equal torque, you can have more power at lower RPMs potentially...neither list numbers for that so when it comes to outright power, it could actually go either way. Also, when it comes to a table saw, extra weight is a good thing as it keeps the saw more stable.
And again, both saws are good, they'll both cut the same stuff...the way you keep spewing this **** you make it sound like the Dewalt one couldn't even cut some children's balsa wood.
Yea I see no reason to entertain the mathematical equations people post to try and make their points, cause what someone writes up on their computer and the results from actual real world demos are two different things..
I once posted asking about making a corded adapter for cordless tools - I got replies from people posting all sorts of equations, and sarcastic replies from people boasting about degrees saying the converter would need to be bigger than the tools.. when I posted I pic on one made by Dewalt like 10 years ago - and the link for the one greenlee sells for its makita powered tools - suddenly everyone shut up..
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
I get you are a fan of Milwaukee. But part of the problem here is as you stated that Milwaukee discontinues models after 3 years. I am still using my Bosch 18v Nicad kit going on 12 years. I use them in my business and have all the tools for the 18 volt system. I have 4 of the one drill alone. Only thing I have had to replace is one charger and one of the drills and one battery are getting a little shakey.
Now if my equipment choice would have been “M” you are saying I could have changed out my kit up to 4 times. I’m not a fan of either D or M but will choose a company that is not always changing it up. Get it right the first time and keep your customers cash in their pocket.
WittHay
Well-known member
I think its still true, Bosch is sold in more national retailers than Milwaukee. Home Depot sells all 4 brands; Rona sells DeWalt, Makita, Bosch; Canadian Tire, Home Hardware, Lowes sells DeWalt, Bosch; Napa sells DeWalt, Makita
Milwaukee around here is sold mainly in local industrial, parts type places KMS, Lordco, BC Fasteners, Acklands-Grainger, Raider-Hansen, Greggs Distributers + wholesale plumbing, electrical places.I like and use Milwaukee but Milwaukee is not exactly a nation wide diy brand in this country.
Most handyman i know, not licensed trades people but just guys that need cordless in their trucks for various jobs use DeWalt. For all day grinding and other industrial use, Makita seems to be the top choice. Mechanics still buy Snap-on and the Mac powered by DeWalt
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So, you don't understand math? That's okay, and yes real world with all factors in place will differ from a perfect mathematical prediction. But according to your avatar you being a lineman, you should have a good grasp on the concept of how power actually works. You aren't going to be able to pull the same load out of the typical 18v Milwaukee battery versus a larger battery no matter what the rated voltage is assuming the battery technology is similar. Pulling a higher current from a small battery is going to overheat it, and whether it kills it right away or after a few cycles is anybody's guess.
But it will happen. Now with that being said, I am sure Milwaukee has technology in place in their battery platform to prevent that sort of long term current draw that will ultimately destroy the battery and possibly the tool. So essentially actual real world output for a few seconds could quite easily top that of another tool with a larger power source, but after that few seconds is over then the tool compensates due to overload conditions and performs with far less than rated output because it can't sustain it.
Over your head? Really you need to understand the point here, nobody is bashing Milwaukee and you don't need to be all defensive about your comprehension of physics. You can't just throw the word "FACT" around and expect everybody to get in line, or even if you are being paid to push the Milwaukee line then show some actual data backing up your claims. It isn't rocket science, but it takes a little more effort than I've seen so far.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
The FACTS are that using an 18v platform with high powered tools is a horrible compromise. As mentioned before, a 15A 120v equivalent 18v tool is going to require sustained 100A+ current draws from the battery.
What that means is all the wiring inside the drill has to be larger, all the power MOSFETs need to be larger, with more heatsinking, the motor windings need to be heavier, all the battery contacts need to be larger, and everything is going to run hotter. The margin of safety goes way down, especially on the battery contact side. A little bit of corrosion on the battery terminals and you'll almost certainly have a fire pushing 100A through it. You're trying to cram power electronics that can cope with 100A+ current loads in a hand held tool. It's a recipe for failure.
There's a reason why manufacturers like DeWalt, Bosch and Makita have gone to high-voltage systems for their more powerful tools. There's a reason why industrial facilities use 480v over 120v. There's a reason why hybrid cars use 350v battery packs instead of 12v batteries. The reason is that low voltage, high current just *****, is far more failure prone and is more expensive.
The math that "doesn't matter" according to you is why this system will fail. Just 0.05 ohms of contact resistance between the tool and battery at a 100A draw will result in a 5v voltage drop across them. That leaves only 13v available to the tool, and 500 watts of heat will be dissipated into the battery contacts. The battery would literally melt off after a few seconds of that.
On the other hand, a 56v platform (FlexVolt) delivering the same power, across the same battery contact resistance will only have a 3.2v drop - leaving 52.8v available to the tool, and only 90 watts of heat would be dissipated into the battery contacts.
Your argument that the FlexVolt system isn't any good because it requires "different batteries" is laughable. The FlexVolt system allows you to use the same 60v battery for both the high voltage and low voltage tools. It's no different than these new high-powered 18v Milwaukee tools that are going to require these new super 12.0 Ah batteries.
The only one Milwaukee has "body slammed" is themselves once these special high-current battery packs and tools start dropping like flies after a year or two of heavy use.
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And in the real world the tools regardless of the colour still do the job, so what's your point? You also go on quoting specs about rpm's and weight and other stuff, that's not real world...contradict yourself much?
How many Milwaukee tools do you personally own? How many of these new tools do you own? How do you use them in your profession? Just curious about how your own personal real world experience has shown that it's milwaukee or nothing.
To be clear here - Milwaukee doesn't just "discontinue" models.. they are upgraded and replaced with newer stuff - keeping them more competitive and insuring they are always a top tier consideration..
Why would you have "had to" change your tools 4 times now???? Parts and support are always offered for their items, not to mention a 5 yr warranty vs 3 for most others.. nobody is forcing anyone to upgrade - rather they offer better tools if you WANT to upgrade, replace, buy another - and make sure they offer some of the most up to date tools available for anyone just looking to get in.. why would you WANT to replace a 10 yr old tool, with the same 10 year old model if you had to get a new one?? They all work with same batteries, so how is keeping things current with the times and technology a bad thing in any way?
If you like 18v nicad Bosch - I have a 6 piece tool kit of theirs sitting in a closet and hasn't been used in years - you want it? I'll give u a good deal on it.
Sorry, maybe you should actually read the thread, and look at the links posted.. or better yet - read all of my posts where I've recommended multiple brands to various people. Anyone actually familiar with what I post would know that. Can we stop with the liberal tactics here and stick with the truth for a change?
Not like I come in here and recommend $1,000 worth of snap on toosl to the guys looking to do an oil change like some other people do... if you feel what I post is inaccurate in any way, I invite you to post actual evidence to support your claims and your views - instead of just name calling and insults.. lol. Should be pretty easy for you guys seeing as how I'm wrong and you're right.. simple no??
Now if you'll excuse me - I'm off to go make some more money using Milwaukee.
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You only answered one of my 3 questions. Union linesman though eh? so basically you stand around with a half dozen other people looking at a pole?
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