Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop

[Nuts]

Thank you sir for that. As for your note that perhaps the chipping hammers were used for other purposes there can be NO doubt they were used for "other purposes" as just about everything out there was used for other purposes! I'd say they were supreme at that, for better or in some cases, for worse.

And while we're on the subject of blacksmithing, for you experts out there, what might an anvil weight, roughly speaking, that measures 28" long from the horn to the tail and is 11" tall from the bottom base to the top surface? I forgot to measure the width but presume one about that size was a standard width if such a thing exists. Roughly?

Thomas

Thomas

Take a look on the side of your anvil, there will most likely be a name and 3 numbers that will give you the weight in a British term called hundred weight.

Here's a link with a converter Anvil Weight Calculator

If there's is no markings, take a few close up pics and I'll post them on a couple of blacksmith forums.
One of the telling features are the casting marks and shape of the bottom surface.

Nuts

 

[BB767]

Thomas

Take a look on the side of your anvil, there will most likely be a name and 3 numbers that will give you the weight in a British term called hundred weight.

Here's a link with a converter Anvil Weight Calculator

If there's is no markings, take a few close up pics and I'll post them on a couple of blacksmith forums.
One of the telling features are the casting marks and shape of the bottom surface.

Nuts

I thought that there would be some markings as well, but a quick cursory glance didn't reveal any that I could make out easily. There was some light surface rust which I haven't cleaned up yet. It was also late in the day and I was a little tired from arm wrestling it around and I was leaving early the next day to go fly. Once home, I'll be able to do a better job of doing a close exam plus of course there'll be some pictures posted here involved also. I do know that it's a "Heavy Chevy"!

That's a great link on anvils you posted as well. There's a lot of information therein. Stay tuned......

Thomas

 

[BB767]

Great garage ! Great story ! Great people ! I'm looking forward to reading more.

And RAPID49 there is more coming to read!! Welcome to the thread and enjoy....

Thomas

 

[BB767]

I still love - and hate - this incredible thread!!! It takes up so much of my time when I open it! It also makes me want to redo my shop to look that clean and organized...but I don't know what I'd do with all the stuff I need. It's a function of space I guess - 1000sq ft was not NEARLY big enough....you lucked out in so many ways.
Will you be posting any more shots of working on classics? It would even make a good additional thread - or blog even.... Have you thought of starting a blog, or will you just keep on updating this thread?
Thanks for continuing the saga Thomas!!

e-tek, I'm much more rested now thank you very much. The smaller the shop the more organized and clean you need to be, IMO. Normally at the end of the day I spend just a few minutes cleaning up after the days activities. I like being able to come in at the start of the day with clean tools, the floor clean and the shop ready to go. Blame or credit my dad for that. Also a building contractor I worked for in college insisted on stopping work 15 minutes early each day to police the work site before we left for home. Old/good habits stick with you I guess.

I do have several photos of some different "classics" being worked on and will get them on here. They just look pretty cool and right at home in an old shop environment even though it's modern day. Some of that subject will be a new thread though if it doesn't really relate to the history of the shop and it's restoration.

As for a blog, that might be an interesting project and I have given it some thought. If I do I'll certainly let everyone know. For present I'm planning on updating this thread till I get the major equipment restored/refurbished and the last of the buildings cleaned out and recycled. I'll then update from time to time with subjects of interest out here.

You've been with us on this thread a long time now, thank you for the continued interest.

Hope you're getting some sleep too!

Thomas

 

[BigDaddyUSMC]

Charles here from the AL JERAULD Y Manifold story
I see you all are going on about old tools. I have a COOL old hammer .
It is a HERBRAND brass head hammer with an aluminum handle.
On one side of the head it says HERBRAND , on the other side it says INDIANAPOLIS 500.
This hammer was given to my Uncle Chuck Chenowth in 1961 when he tried to qualify the San Diego Steel Products CHENOWTH indy roadster in the Indy 500. It was the first V8 engine to try to qualify for the race. They had engine problems & didn't qualify.The car was raced for 20 + years in many different racing trim.
The car has been restored to it original 1961 condition
Photos of the Hammer & the car in 1960 & 2008

The hammer was made to hammer off the knock off wheel nuts & not damage them.

 

[007]

Proto made an aluminum hammer many years ago. Similar design, a little shorter. I think it had Indie 500 on the brass head also. Used several and broke them, wrong application.

 

[JC23]

Is that car part of the Indy 500 museum?

 

[BigDaddyUSMC]

The SDSP CHENOWTH Indy car is not a museum piece. It races in vintage races many times each year. It runs on carburation day at indy every year & at a lot of other big tracks before , NASCAR & IRL events.

Here is a link to a short video of the car at Lugan Seca/ Monterey Historics
www.metacafe.com/watch/1697952/vintage_indy_racecar_hot_rod_v8_sdsp_chenowth_indy_roadster/

I took this video in 2007
There is a short 10 second advertisement before the video ,

 

[JC23]

That's cool. I saw the pic of it against what looks like pit wall and thought it was one of those they brought out of the musuem recently. The fact that it still hits the tracks makes it even cooler! Congrats!

 

[BB767]

Everyone who follows this thread may not be aware how Charles fits into the manifold story and this thread. Charles is the gentleman who first contacted me regarding his co-teacher Jacob, and who wished to purchase the manifold from me.....unsuccessfully I might add. It was his emails that I reproduced here when I relayed the initial story and those are his photographs of Jacob with the manifold. I didn't include his name at that time because I had not contacted him for his permission to do so. In the future I will now do that.

The Indy car also fits in here but that connection will have to wait until I get home. Please be a little more patient with me. Home very shortly!

Thanks everyone for understanding and thanks also to Charles for his updates on Jacob and his manifold.

Thomas

 

[IndyGarage]

The SDSP CHENOWTH Indy car is not a museum piece. It races in vintage races many times each year. It runs on carburation day at indy every year & at a lot of other big tracks before , NASCAR & IRL events.

Here is a link to a short video of the car at Lugan Seca/ Monterey Historics
www.metacafe.com/watch/1697952/vintage_indy_racecar_hot_rod_v8_sdsp_chenowth_indy_roadster/

I took this video in 2007
There is a short 10 second advertisement before the video ,

Love those old Indycars.

I thought that was the era of the Novi - wasn't it a V8?

I agree that most cars of the era were Offy 4 cylinders. Interestingly, the Novi was built in Offenhauser's shop as well.

 

[BB767]

Thomas

Take a look on the side of your anvil, there will most likely be a name and 3 numbers that will give you the weight in a British term called hundred weight.

Here's a link with a converter Anvil Weight Calculator

If there's is no markings, take a few close up pics and I'll post them on a couple of blacksmith forums.
One of the telling features are the casting marks and shape of the bottom surface.

Nuts

Nuts, here is a picture when I first uncovered the anvil in the shop 5 years ago.

You might get an early start trying to figure out what type of anvil it is from this perhaps. Once I removed it from the fab room back then, it's been patiently waiting in the tool shed till last week. I've got several pictures coming of that struggle and closeups of the anvil itself which should help. I'll also be seeking advice about the best way to clean it up and keep it in condition to be serviceable. But that is a day or two distant.


Thomas

 

[ZRX61]

I'll also be seeking advice about the best way to clean it up and keep it in condition to be serviceable. But that is a day or two distant.
Thomas

Wirewheel? I knew a guy in the UK who kept his anvil looking good with black shoe polish....Another possibility is that graphite based paste for making old kitchen ranges look new. Wipe it on & buff it off like shoe polish.

Edit..
This stuff:
http://marketmerchants.com/Williams-Stove-Polish-for-Metal-Stoves/M/B000WY8WWW.htm

 

[BB767]

Wirewheel? I knew a guy in the UK who kept his anvil looking good with black shoe polish....Another possibility is that graphite based paste for making old kitchen ranges look new. Wipe it on & buff it off like shoe polish.

Edit..
This stuff:
http://marketmerchants.com/Williams-Stove-Polish-for-Metal-Stoves/M/B000WY8WWW.htm

Shoot, I was hoping you'd say "ship it to me and I'll grab it with some vice grips, heat it up with a torch and then dip it some engine oil"

Thomas

 

[Elroy]

There are a couple of very minor "in the field" modifications that Elroy will be glad to see that I left in place, but only minor ones. Just check back here, OK?

Elroy kindly inquires for additional information. We're confident your decisions are well based but are interested in the details.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Shoot, I was hoping you'd say "ship it to me and I'll grab it with some vice grips, heat it up with a torch and then dip it some engine oil"

Thomas

I'd just love to know what shipping would cost for that hunk of iron!

 

[ZRX61]

I'd just love to know what shipping would cost for that hunk of iron!

I can tell you that if an anvil shows up on my doorstep it wil be moved into the garage... & stay there

There's one for sale locally for $385 & it's a beast, been comtemplating it for about a month...

 

[3bay]

There's one for sale locally for $385 & it's a beast, been contemplating it for about a month...

Must be one of the made in China anvils. They don't have the bounce of USA made.

Even a small vintage American made anvil will set you back more than that. Large ones can easily go for more than a grand.

 

[Nuts]

Current reasonable pricing on older anvils, that aren't broken or having the top separating, are going for $2 to $3 a pound. Most of the guys won't do more than a powered wire brushing, no paint. I'd then wipe it down with a solvent to get the dry rust off, and hammer away.

And you might want to remove it from that steel plate, and I hope it hasn't been welded, because that's bad anvil karma. Besides attached to that plate it will ring like a church house bell. A perfect mount would be about an eighteen in stump from off the property, cuts way down on the bell sound.

As for the anvil, it looks very much like my Peter Wrights, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that being correct.

Nuts

 

[Warg]

I'd just love to know what shipping would cost for that hunk of iron!

He just has to do a fly by and drop it... Wonder what the result of that would have looked like...

-Paul

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

He just has to do a fly by and drop it... Wonder what the result of that would have looked like...

-Paul

Picture a VERY deep hole! lol
Gee, I wonder what its terminal velocity would be from FL35?

 

[BigDaddyUSMC]

JERAULDS Y MANIFOLD STORY CONTINUED......
JERAULDS SPEED SHOP RE-VISITED

For those of you that haven't kept up with the Jeraulds Y manifold story. Jacob is the foster son of Al Jerauld & he is the one that ended up with the AL JERAULD Y Manifold adaptor. Jacob use to work at Jeraulds Speed Shop in the 1950's
12-11-10
Jacob & I drove down to National city calif to check out JERAULS SPEED SHOP.
Today it is called Jeraulds auto care. All of the original buildings are gone. But that didn't stop Jacob from telling me & the current owner of how things were back in the day. The name VIC Edelbrock came up more than ones. Maybe on one of these early visits to Jeraulds in where Vic Edelbrock Sr. got his idea for his Y manifold adaptor???

It was kind of funny but most of the stories Jacob told involved M-80's & fire crackers either tossed into the bathroom , the office ,or into the grease pit while some unsuspecting person was in there tasking care of business LOLOLOL

Another story was how the National city police shut down the street in front of Jeraulds so they could test out a few dragsters. This wasn't some side street out in the boonies , It was National Ave., the main street that runs north & south thru National city
Man those were the days.... Today you can't start a un-capped motor with out the cops showing up to say shut that thing off, there have been complaints.

Attached are photos of the Jeraulds sign today & Jacob with Manuel ,the current owner of Jeraulds. Manuel was nice enough to let us take a few old photos off the wall so we could go have copies made. I'll post those photos ASAP

Its hard to believe less than a few months ago all we had was one old photo & some stories. Today we have the elusive Jeraulds Y manifold thanks to Thomas & dozens of old photos of the many race cars that came out of Jeraulds.

Jacob is so enthused that he is talking about building a reproduction of the Jeraulds belly tank land speed car. Looks like we got a lot of work ahead of us.....
Many thanks to EVERYONE that has helped us & to those that are following this story.

 

[Motown 454]

Great story.

 

[BB767]

Now about that anvil....



...as I mentioned earlier, as I was cleaning out the shop in 2005, many items that I was keeping, or at least not recycling were relocated to the 2 car garage, lean-to or tool shed seen above.



To move it, I "walked it out" using some plywood underneath it. In this picture you can see that Mr Johnson made the base out of what appears top be 1/2 of a tractor or large truck rear differential housing. With the base being round, "walking" it was relatively easy.....except it weighed a ton. How much did you guys say it weighed?




Here's a better view of the homemade base, the holes were bolt holes for the differential housing. Remember he was rather clever at repurposing items. Note the curved rod used to pin the anvil base on it's side.



They say every journey begins with that first step.....




...and so the journey to the the barn began.....when I came to the end of the plywood, I picked up the one behind not being used and laid it in front. Weren't the pyramids built that way??



Keep in mind here the temperature was about 25 F (-4C), it was juuussst starting to snow a little and it was getting dark quickly. So here I am, the glamorous international airline pilot, arm wrestling this thing up my lane to the barn..........in the dark........as it was starting to snow..........and at times this man has hundreds of peoples lives in his hands............................?????????



.... I can just imagine what was going through the neighbors minds when they drove by or looked out their window and saw me bear hugging that thing up the lane.........



I suppose looking back it might have been easier to fire up the John Deere and use the tractor bucket and a chain, but where's the challenge in that?



The base is also stabilized by the 4 rods, one in each corner.



You can also see that the anvil is "trapped" on the base and not firmly secured or welded to it. There is angle iron front and back and those curved rods on the sides. It can be partially lifted off the base if need be.

Now didn't someone mention they couldn't imagine "all the energy" that went into the shop restoration? I'm not done yet!

Thomas

 

[ZRX61]

I think the traditional base for anvils is Elm. Ideally you want wood so you have a bit of *give* & don't end up pounding it thru the concrete floor.

 

[BB767]

I think the traditional base for anvils is Elm. Ideally you want wood so you have a bit of *give* & don't end up pounding it thru the concrete floor.

It just happens there are two sections of oak trunk....

...seen to the far left in front of the lean-to that are over two hundred years old (counted the rings) and are more than 38" in diameter if I remember correctly. I thought I could use one of those, slightly modified.

At present each one weighs more than my tractor bucket can handle but once cut to size, it might work nicely? Oak doesn't have much "give" but I already have it and it's been cut for 3 years now. What is the traditional method for securing the anvil to a wood base?

Thomas

 

[ZRX61]

Easiest way to describe it is what looks like sharpened U bolts hammered into the wood over the 4 corners of the base. At least that's what all the ones I saw on the UK had.

 

[Zeppe807]

Is that a "Peter Wright Anvil" ? From the pictures it looks like it. From the stamps on the side you can see what the weight is, and I believe the year it was made. Mine is a 126lb, and not in that good of condition. That is a great looking Anvil!

 

[BB767]

Picture a VERY deep hole! lol
Gee, I wonder what its terminal velocity would be from FL35?

Ok.........

....there 'ya go.

Terminal velocity would be 32 feet per second per second I believe.

Thomas

 

[JC23]

Chris,

Is that deal about building the pyramids outta plywood gonna be on the test???

I'm still having a problem with that one,

 

[Nuts]

He just has to do a fly by and drop it... Wonder what the result of that would have looked like...

-Paul

Warg, here you go, Anvil Shooting.



To me the anvil looks like a Peter Wright or a Hay Budden.
But I would think that those two brands would be marked.

On a lot of the older anvils, the writing appears to be stamped instead of cast,
and due to the hard use, the sides get pretty well beat up, making it hard to see if they had ever been marked.
Wire brush the sides, and maybe a trace of the original lettering will show up.

Sharpened u-bolts, or a short strap with two lag bolts on each corner works also. A lot of smiths just make a half circle of wood much like the rebar on the stand your anvil is on.

If it is still sounding like a bell on the stump, a length of 3/8ths chain wrapped around the waist, and or a hefty speaker magnet should tone the thing down.

Nuts aka Doug

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Thomas,

Did a quick Google 'Image' search for 'anvil' and found a likely suspect:
'N. C. Tool Co. - Calvary model'; the company is still in business, but yours looks like a big brother to what they offer today.

When you moved that monster, did you say something like ---

"Chris honey, I'll be outside taking the anvil for its evening walk."

???

And on returning, did you say ---

"(In a Castrada Falsetto voice) Hi Honey, I'm home, the anvil and I had a good long walk!"

 

[markviii]

He never tells me when he's going to do something stupid - oh, I mean, ill-advised. I usually don't find out until it's done (like here on GJ!) or if something went wrong. Luckily nothing went wrong with this little stunt.

Chris (sorry to run up that post total)

 

[BB767]

JERAULDS Y MANIFOLD STORY CONTINUED......

Here's an email I received from Charles from Dec 4th that I'm just now getting updated here so it's a little out of sequence..........


Thomas
I just found the Al Jerauld manifold & Jacob Bagnell story you posted on your GJ page.
I'm blown away at how this has become a story so many folks are following.

Well to up date you on whats going on... We have NOT found the Jerauld - Barber Belly Tank Lakester YET...
I'm sending emails to everyone I can find on the internet asking if they know where the car is today.
Posted a few times on H.A.M.B. with no results......
I got a lot of folks looking for this belly tank , if it is still out there were going to find it.

I have found lots of photos & info on the car .
It was featured in the sept 1952 issue of Hot Rod Magazine ( Scan of the 2 page article attached )






Al Jerauld & George Barber wanted to be different , everyone was going BIG , so they went small , small belly tank , small engine
In 1952 the car set the record for "O" class lakesters at Bonneville 115.53 Mph ( O class is 90 cid under)
It had a destroked & sleeved V8/60 flathead , 88.75 cid with 80 base horse power , running Alcohol & Nitromethane
1954 it ran 4th in "A" Class lakesters at Bonneville ( not sure what "A class" engine displacement was back then or the MPH it ran)
1956 it ran 160 mph at Bonneville ( not sure what class) , 120 mph at Paradise Mesa Drag Strip & 152 at El Mirage dry lake

Jacob & I went to JACK'S GARAGE in Fountain Valley Calif. a few weeks back. We talked to the old school dry lake guys ,
they knew about the Belly Tank but didn't know where it was today. They also knew of the Jerauld Y manifold ,but had never seen one.
Photo attached of Jabob & Jack Underwood at JACKS GARAGE.



Jacob & I are going to try to go to JERAULDS AUTOMOTIVE ( the old Jerauld Speed Shop) next Saturday. They have photos & info on the car.

i was contacted by Geoffrey Hacker , He has a web page called BELLYTANKS.COM ,
He is going to do a web article on the Jerauld - BarberBelly tank in December or January.

The manifold itself is still being restored & mounted on a black marble base,
The guys at Jacks Garage are going to hook Jacob up with 2 old Stromberg 97 carbs
& I'm going to make some carb scoops.
( I will send photos ASAP)

Someone posted on your GJ page that Vic Edelbrock made a similar Y manifold. As far
as we can find out , Al Jerauld made his Y manifold before Edelbrock put his out ,
A guy by the name of VERN TARDAL makes a Y manifold today & SO-CAL SPEED SHOP sells it on Ebay
It looks ALMOST EXACTLY like the Al Jerauld Manifold.
On Vern Tardel's web page he says his manifold is a copy of a “SCHOOLBOY'S” dual manifold. I haven't been able to find
photos or info of the schoolboy,s manifold . I'm going to contact Vern & see what info they have.
(I have attached a photo of Vern Tardel's manifold)



Well this saga & hunt for the Jerauld Belly Tank Lakester continues , will up date you when I have more

Thanks again for everything
Charles Chenowth & Jacob Bagnell


..........Charles also sent this picture and short caption.........




"Here is a photo of Al Jerauld & George Barber taken at Jeraulds Speed Chop in National city
Charles"




......Little did I know when I first saw that manifold in 2005 it would lead to all this........ and the best part is, it's all good.

There is still more background material as it relates to the Indy car that I'll get on here soon.

Thomas

 

[bigblock427]

Thats interesting. Those guys were some daredevils!

 

[BB767]

....
Gee, I wonder what its terminal velocity would be from FL35?

Omphaloskeptic you might find this helpful....


Terminal velocity = function of weight and drag coefficient.

An object which is falling through the atmosphere is subjected to two external forces. One force is the gravitational force, expressed as the weight of the object. The other force is the air resistance, or drag of the object. If the mass of an object remains constant, the motion of the object can be described by Newton's second law of motion, force F equals mass m times acceleration a:

F = m * a

which can be solved for the acceleration of the object in terms of the net external force and the mass of the object:

a = F / m

Weight and drag are forces which are vector quantities. The net external force F is then equal to the difference of the weight W and the drag D

F = W - D

The acceleration of a falling object then becomes:

a = (W - D) / m

The magnitude of the drag is given by the drag equation. Drag D depends on a drag coefficient Cd, the atmospheric density r, the square of the air velocity V, and some reference area A of the object.

D = Cd * r * V ^2 * A / 2

Drag increases with the square of the speed. So as an object falls, we quickly reach conditions where the drag becomes equal to the weight, if the weight is small. When drag is equal to weight, there is no net external force on the object and the vertical acceleration goes to zero. With no acceleration, the object falls at a constant velocity as described by Newton's first law of motion. The constant vertical velocity is called the terminal velocity .

Using algebra, we can determine the value of the terminal velocity. At terminal velocity:

D = W

Cd * r * V ^2 * A / 2 = W

Solving for the vertical velocity V, we obtain the equation

V = sqrt ( (2 * W) / (Cd * r * A)

where sqrt denotes the square root function.



JC23 you can BET That'll be on the test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Always helpful - Thomas

 

[Warg]

Hmmm... Considering the density of the anvil you could probably just ignore the drag factor and still be pretty close on the terminal velocity. This simplifies the equation a lot.

-Paul

 

[ADaughen]

Terminal velocity would be 32 feet per second per second I believe.

Thomas

I would think it would be faster than 21.8 mph (32ft/s).

"The more compact and dense the object, the higher its terminal velocity will be. Typical examples are the following: raindrop, 25 ft/s, human being, 250 ft/s."

A person in free fall usually has a terminal velocity ~160mph and there is a LOT more resistance and surface area on fleshy human.


Now calculating the kenetic energy of the anvil hitting the door step from FL35 would be fun. Your "hole" photo could be about right.

 

[markviii]

Relax, guys. I promise no "real" math like this on the test! The test is going to be fun,, I promise!

It's 12 degrees F right now. They called off schools all around us because of the high winds (40-50mph)/lack of visibility/low temp (-10-20 degrees) wind chill. The roads aren't too bad (Tom says), but visibility on the N/S roads is terrible. Today and tomorrow will have the lowest temps; later in the week we'll be in the 20s and low 30s, but no predicted precip for the next 10 days. Yeah!

I'd like to thank our friends in San Diego for calling this morning to remind us of our situation while they sat having mint juleps on the patio. The guest bedrooms are vacant, guys. Which do you prefer - the extreme heat/humidity that we had in June/August or below freezing/windy/snowy weather? We have all the extremes here in central IL. Join us in our world if you're brave!

Chris

 

[BB767]

I would think it would be faster than 21.8 mph (32ft/s).



A person in free fall usually has a terminal velocity ~160mph and there is a LOT more resistance and surface area on fleshy human.


Now calculating the kenetic energy of the anvil hitting the door step from FL35 would be fun. Your "hole" photo could be about right.

Thanks ADaughen, that's what I get for posting something after being up 30 hours and only 3 hours sleep! Note the more informative post #1957 after a few more hours sleep!

Keep me on my toes guys!

Thomas