Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop

[markviii]

We work 24/7 around here. It's the only way to get things done!

Chris

 

[BB767]

.........

Edit - I just noticed the time in your neck of the woods, I think it's time that you went to bed young man.

We work 24/7 around here. It's the only way to get things done!

Chris

She's kidding of course........it only seems like we work 24/7.

....and oh, by the way; "stuff" (my technical term) I'm doing concerning the house is not work to me....but don't tell Chris, OK? I enjoy a little sympathy and some great back rubs from her after those long days.

Thomas

 

[C_F]

Re: Adirondack Natural Stone - ANS - Part II

There's more to processing stone than you might think. Thanks everyone.

There sure is! Thanks for the informative tour, this is really neat.

 

[Settler]

First post on this forum. I signed up primarily to tell you thank you for taking the time to share this experience.

I spent about 3 weeks getting to this point.

 

[BB767]

There sure is! Thanks for the informative tour, this is really neat.

I'm glad you find it interesting C_F 'cause I sure do. I feel it helps to have some background on where and how this material came to be. Once the stone is laid in my house, in years to come I will always think back to visiting with André and Karen and how they went out of their way to welcome me to the quarry and then take extra effort to provide precisely the type of stone I had envisioned for the house. It certainly personalizes it.

First post on this forum. I signed up primarily to tell you thank you for taking the time to share this experience.

I spent about 3 weeks getting to this point.

Well hi there Settler and a warm welcome to you good sir. I'm flattered that you chose this thread to debut posting here at Garage Journal. As you've read, creating this thread and posting about our (mis?)adventures has been a lot of fun for Chris and myself and sharing it with our friends here has made it doubly so. That you persisted and spent 3 weeks to get to the latest ATP is a good sign that you'll fit right in with the gang here. Hang on 'cause...



....it's about to get...



...very interesting.




I'm starting to fall behind because...



...there is so much happening...



...behind the scenes. The footing/drain tile work will finish tomorrow, the foundation work is set to start tomorrow (Woo-Hoo) and the material lift is just about operational. Details to follow. I'm glad you've joined us.

Thomas

 

[MG David]

Thomas, some translation please. I know what a drain is and I know what a tile is. What is a "drain tile"?

Thanks,
David

 

[Vernmotor]

I check in once a month .Just so I don't get to far behind !

 

[xtremek]

I even showed my wife your post about the granite

 

[zzflattop]

Man that is one hell of a nice job! Looks like you have done a ton of work. Keep it up, it looks incredible!!!

 

[AZpilot]

Thomas, some translation please. I know what a drain is and I know what a tile is. What is a "drain tile"?

Thanks,
David

I think of it as a French Drain. Some rock in a trench around the building with a pipe with holes and some rock on top of that then fill dirt. The drain carries the water away from the foundation.

 

[BB767]

Thomas, some translation please. I know what a drain is and I know what a tile is. What is a "drain tile"?

Thanks,
David

I think of it as a French Drain. Some rock in a trench around the building with a pipe with holes and some rock on top of that then fill dirt. The drain carries the water away from the foundation.

Good question David, I'm sure it's my poor vocabulary that might be confusing. I should have explained a bit more clearly. Water on the garage or basement floors flows along a slope in the floor and travels down a floor drain which in turn empties into a drainage tile. That tile in turn carries the water away from the structure into another, larger drainage source.



Here is the drainage tile I used, 8" (20 cm) corrugated, solid plastic tile, 430' (131 m) long to remove water away from the house.
My house floor drains and my foundation footing drains will empty into this drainage tile which is connected at the other end, 430' away, to a catch basin that is maintained by the village.
The village has drainage lines throughout the village that we can connect floor drains to but not sewage lines.
Sewage drainage is handled by septic or muti-flow systems owned and maintained by individual property owners on their property.

We are after all, a small town/village, not a big city with big city conveniences like sanitary sewage lines.
Perhaps when you see more posts on the tile and building foundation installations it'll make a little more sense.

AZpilot you are correct about French drains. The 100 year old "Lodge" we presently live in has, I'm sure, French drains to provide drainage in and for the basement. We'll find out next year when we tear that house down and see just where those drains are connected.

Thank you gentleman for the input. I'm sure others were wondering as well.

Thomas

 

[BB767]

I check in once a month .Just so I don't get to far behind !

You've been such a regular here over the years I knew you hadn't gone anywhere. Drag racing season is almost upon us!

I even showed my wife your post about the granite

Now that's pretty cool. Thanks xtremek, hope she didn't roll her eyes and mutter something about "you guys".

Man that is one hell of a nice job! Looks like you have done a ton of work. Keep it up, it looks incredible!!!

Hey thanks for the compliment zzflattop. I do appreciate the encouragement. There's more coming this way, check back with us.

Thomas

 

[BB767]

It's Underway......

So this is how my day started today...



...and this is how it ended.



The basement was all excavated in 1 day.



The drainage tile...





...was also laid today and is now connected to the village drain lines. I don't need sump pumps to drain the basement, I have enough fall (downward slope.... I live on a hill after all) in the tile line that gravity drains it nicely.

Tomorrow the footings and footing tile will be formed and poured. Sunny skies and 65º forecast. It's all coming together just as I'd hoped. More details to come, sleep for me first. Thanks everyone.

Thomas

 

[Redwolf947]

Awesome your moving right along.. Thanks for taking us along to the granite quarry..

 

[BBChevro]

Hey Thomas, possibly a silly question - is there any sort of check-valve or back-flow prevention of any kind in the drain to prevent flooding your basement in the event of a blockage downstream (which would be compounded by any residents living "upstream" of the junction)?

I know nothing about basements (they are very uncommon here).

 

[AZpilot]

I know nothing about basements (they are very uncommon here).

They are common in the Midwest USA. Where Tornado's can rip your house out and move it downwind blocks away. I lived in the St Louis area 12 years and other areas of Missouri for 10 more years. So I know somewhat about Tornado's. I don't miss them much in Arizona.

And BB767, I can see the basement is not deep enough, and does not have my required steel and concrete escape tunnel on the Southeast side.

 

[stillp]

Here is the drainage tile I used, 8" (20 cm) corrugated, solid plastic tile, 430' (131 m) long to remove water away from the house.

Hence David's question. This side of the pond, a tile is a flat thing that you'd put on your roof, floor, or walls, it's never a pipe!
To confuse matters further, a "French Drain" doesn't have a pipe, just coarse gravel.

Two great countries, divided by a common language!

Pete

 

[JeremyBurke]

Pete, to further confuse matters, I grew up in the pacific north west (Oregon) and we would agree with you what tile is. We would have called that drain pipe. And a French drain does have a pipe in it just one that is solid on the bottom and perforate on top. That is then buried in gravel.

No matter what we call it though it is great to see things progressing. So happy for you all there in the center of the universe. Please keep updating we love to see it.

Jeremy

 

[markviii]

For everything you ever wanted to know about French Drains, I went to the "authority": wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_drain

"French" does not refer to the country or language, but to the man who invented them. Who knew?

Lots of stuff going on at The Center of the Universe! Piles of black dirt and clay all over the property. The crew worked yesterday until the basement was done (around 7:30pm). The forms and footings are being worked on right now. The concrete trucks rolled in about an hour ago.

There's no going back!

Chris

 

[W_A_Watson_II]

Here in IL many field's are "Tiled" to drain off the high water table and allow the ground to be dry enough to farm. They used to use clay pipes, now use this corrugated perforated platic and the above pictured equipment to perform the job quicker and more efficient.

tile: a pottery tube or pipe used for draining land.

 

[Bob Heine]

Thomas and Chris, wonderful progress and congratulations on breaking ground BIG TIME. Amazing how much work a professional crew with heavy equipment can accomplish in a day.

 

[Grizz1963]

I have nothing to add except my admiration.

I love the mess and chaos of building process, then the way that you regain control once the works are done.

I agree on the Oregon description of French drain too, and tiles certainly go on roofs, shingles is a disease, or roofing material either

Anyway, always good to check in on progress in the Centre of the Universe.

 

[C_F]

The crew worked yesterday until the basement was done (around 7:30pm). The forms and footings are being worked on right now. The concrete trucks rolled in about an hour ago.

There's no going back!

Chris

Dang, that's fast! Looking forward to more updates, I hope all goes smoothly.

 

[gasgas17]

Hey Thomas, possibly a silly question - is there any sort of check-valve or back-flow prevention of any kind in the drain to prevent flooding your basement in the event of a blockage downstream (which would be compounded by any residents living "upstream" of the junction)?

I know nothing about basements (they are very uncommon here).

This drain tile would only be for ground water (no sewage). It may or my not be hooked into a municipal storm water systems depending on where you live and if such systems even exist. Not much point in a check valve as these pipes are most commonly if not always set in a bed of clear stone and then buried in clear stone to allow the water to weep into the drain pipe. The pipe is perforated to allow water to both enter and leave the pipe. The idea is to get the water to a lower point than your basement where it can percolate into the water table or be carried away by a storm water system.

It's is common for drain tile to become filled with sediment over a long period of time and stop working. The more gravel and sand used to back fill both the foundation and the drain tile trench better. Clay is notorious for clogging drain tile over long periods of time.

 

[mybigwarwagon]

Wow. You have topsoil. Here on the outer edge of the universe ( big city of Crouse, NC-population 600 people, 30000 cows. Salute!!) we just have clay and rocks. A hole that big would require something that went boom!

 

[BB767]

It Was A Good Day

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll follow up on several points that have come up.......after some sleep. I started this morning at 06:00 and it's after midnight right now so I'll get a bit of sleep first.

However here's a quick recap of today's activities starting this morning...



...and then there was some in between "stuff"...



...finishing off with...



The inside/outside footing drain tiles are all installed, the one-way drain tile check valve and sump pits have been installed, the garage footing was dug, and all the footings and piers have been poured and the vertical wall re-bar installed. That's a pretty good days work. We'll let the footing concrete set up and harden a little, then looking ahead, on Monday we'll form up the basement walls, Tuesday the walls will get poured and Wednesday all the forms will get stripped.

I'll follow up with details shortly but first I must sleep! It's all working out nicely so far.

Thomas

 

[1/2 Cup]

You sound like you do need to get some rest Thomas, looking fantastic thus far.

Regards

 

[AZpilot]

That is a BAB! Big azz basement!

 

[Boosted1]

Wow! Hope your project keeps moving that well.
It is going to be very interesting to watch this build.
Thanks for sharing the details.

 

[MG David]

Thomas you can sleep while the concrete hardens.

My experience of construction projects, (I used to be Finance Director of a tunnelling company), is that the risks of delay and cost are normally in the ground. Unforeseen ground conditions we call it. So you are off to a very good start.

Over here water from inside the building would go into the sewage system and the water from the roof, paving and other outside run off would go into the storm drain.

I am sure you will have put your one way valve in a serviceable location. My brother had one that failed and his basement drained to the sewer!

 

[AZpilot]

Re: It Was A Good Day

I am often wrong, but are those two round objects to the left in the picture sump pits?

 

[TimeWarpF100]

That finish looks fine to me especially for a display tool. I do know that EvapoRust can be a little pricey so once the dust settles out here and I get all the tools and other items together that need to be cleaned up, I'll determine what might be best method. Might turn out to be molasses for all I know. One friend swears by molasses for rust removal.

Thanks rmalkow2 for the comments and pictures. That helped a lot.

Thomas

I have been using the Evapo~Rust for years. Hint on pricing. Buy a 1/2 pallet or more at a time. one can get the price down under 10.00 per gallon. Much better than the 9.95 per quart most places charge.

The key is to not leave things in too long & to use a plastic vs metal container.

If items are left in too long it kills the solution and turns it black.

I also keep 3 grades of the E-R Clean, mid and dirty. Of course starting off one would need the clean . . LOL Then depending on what I am cleaning determines which solution I use.

I normally find others who want some, order a 1/2 to full pallet & share the shipping which is normally only 150.00 per pallet. I buy gallons & 5 gallon pails.

I have seldom posted here but keep an eye on the thread. Good reading!

 

[stillp]

Thanks Chris!

Keep the updates coming!


Pete

 

[oldschoolbob]

Glad to see you’re using Form-a-drain for your footings. I used it on my house and it’s worked great. You might also consider running some drain pipe under the slab to relieve the pressure of the water under the slab if you have a high water table. Believe it or not the water pressure under the slab can cause cracks in the slab.

Also don’t forget to install under slab drains for the AC condensate water.

Building a house is not easy – you have a lot of work ahead of you – good luck.

 

[BB767]

Hey Thomas, possibly a silly question - is there any sort of check-valve or back-flow prevention of any kind in the drain to prevent flooding your basement in the event of a blockage downstream (which would be compounded by any residents living "upstream" of the junction)?

I know nothing about basements (they are very uncommon here).

Once again it's very late, after midnight so I'll answer just a couple of questions with more later.

Not a silly question at all BBChevro, yes there is a one-way valve on the tile line to prevent backup into the basement.



This is the valve I'm using, it's called "Clean Check"

http://www.rectorseal.com/clean-check-backwater-valves/



The blue arrow is pointing to the arrow on the valve housing indicating the direction of water flow.



Here's a look inside showing a one-way flapper valve. Water can leave the house via the drain line, but water can't flow backwards into the house.



Here is the Clean Check (red arrow) installed. The blue arrow shows the direction of water flow away from the house via the gray colored footing tile (Form-A-Drain) shown by the yellow arrow. Once we back fill the walls, we'll install the correct height clean out access pipe on the Clean Check valve. This just shows a partial installation.

......

I am sure you will have put your one way valve in a serviceable location. My brother had one that failed and his basement drained to the sewer!

David, the unique design of Clean Check allows for the valve to be quickly and easily removed remotely from the surface for servicing:

http://ows.rectorseal.com/product-d...Check Installation Instuction-3 9.5 x 11.pdf

These have been in use for many years with never a problem. It's a robust, well made part. Take a look at the links, it's a very clever idea.

More to come. Thanks for all the input everyone.

Thomas

 

[W_A_Watson_II]

Thomas Nice idea, wish we had had one. My sump pump kicks on every 15 to 20 seconds! My concern is with the valve and line at the same level as the line entering the sump pit, won't the water under normal conditions just enter the sump easier than the drain tile?

If the drain tile valve/line is at a lower level then the water has a better chance of exiting through it?

Also I wish I had a larger volume sump so the sump pump would activate less frequently and pump for longer duration. I wear out float switches and not pumps.

 

[BB767]

Basement Wall Forms

Here's today's progress...



The basement wall forms, 10' (3m) tall were brought on a flat bed truck. Here it is backing down the driveway and yes he did make a square turn backing in.



These are the forms being lowered into the basement.



Horizontal re-bar is being fitted and wire tied the the vertical re-bar.



A total of 5 horizontal re-bar pieces were used along with the vertical re-bar. Here you see 4, the last re-bar piece...





...is installed from the top after the form is erected. The walls are 12" (30 cm) thick.



This is the garage wall being formed. Those are 4' (1.2 m) tall sections since there is no basement under the garage.





This is the last section to be formed.



This is the eventual front of the house. Note the distinctive 15º bend in the wall.



The planking on the outside of the forms will allow the crew to walk along the wall during the pour.



Everything was formed up today.



This is the eventual garage, about 1100 square feet.

So far no problems; tomorrow we pour the walls. Weather permitting the day after that, the forms will be stripped. Then water proofing applied to the outside wall surface and Styrofoam insulation installed. The garage floor drain along with the basement 1/2 bath and A/C condensation drains will then be installed.

I'm very happy with the progress, it couldn't be going better. Weather has been fantastic. It must be that good, clean living. Thanks everyone.

Thomas

 

[rixtrix1]

Thanks for sharing all these "details". It's the mundane, for some, little things that intrigue me in a build such as yours. This is going to be so interesting, just like the rest of your thread, Thomas.

 

[BB767]

.......

I love the mess and chaos of building process, then the way that you regain control once the works are done.

Grizz1963 that a perfect description of the building process. Thanks for sharing that little gem!

Thomas

This drain tile would only be for ground water (no sewage). It may or my not be hooked into a municipal storm water systems depending on where you live and if such systems even exist. Not much point in a check valve as these pipes are most commonly if not always set in a bed of clear stone and then buried in clear stone to allow the water to weep into the drain pipe. The pipe is perforated to allow water to both enter and leave the pipe. The idea is to get the water to a lower point than your basement where it can percolate into the water table or be carried away by a storm water system.

It's is common for drain tile to become filled with sediment over a long period of time and stop working. The more gravel and sand used to back fill both the foundation and the drain tile trench better. Clay is notorious for clogging drain tile over long periods of time.

You are quite correct gasgas17, this drain is only for ground water (no sewage). My 8" drain tile is solid, not perforated like it would be in a farm field. There are too many tree roots around that would eventually clog it up otherwise. It is connected to the village storm water drain system. I installed a one-way check valve just in case the village storm water drain system gets overwhelmed and potentially could back up into the basement. Now it can't.
The basement wall footings will be back-filled with several feet of crushed rock to prevent the type of clogging you're describing.

The company doing the basement work, J. B. Esker & Sons: http://www.jbesker.com/ has been in business for almost 70 years. They are widely considered the best there is. I happen to have 2 neighbors who had Eskers construct their basements 12 and 16 years ago with never a hint of a problem in either one. I don't expect any problems either.

Thomas

I am often wrong, but are those two round objects to the left in the picture sump pits?

Yes those are indeed the sump pits. One is the primary and the other a backup, adjusted to operate at a slightly higher water level. That way the backup will only run if the primary had failed thus allowing water to rise slightly higher. However, I anticipate my sump pumps will almost never run. I've got inside and outside footing tiles along with natural fall to drain the area. At present there is no water in the sumps, the footing tiles are doing all the draining via gravity.

Thomas

Thomas Nice idea, wish we had had one. My sump pump kicks on every 15 to 20 seconds! My concern is with the valve and line at the same level as the line entering the sump pit, won't the water under normal conditions just enter the sump easier than the drain tile?

If the drain tile valve/line is at a lower level then the water has a better chance of exiting through it?

Also I wish I had a larger volume sump so the sump pump would activate less frequently and pump for longer duration. I wear out float switches and not pumps.

Thanks for your question. My sumps and tile drain are not quite connected at the same level. What I've done is connect the footing tile drain at the lowest level of the footing tile and the sumps are connected to the footing tile at the highest level. In cross section there are 2 separate sections to the footing tiles, an upper and a lower.



Look closely and you might be able to see those 2 sections on each footing tile. The footing tile is installed vertically orienting those upper and lower sections one on top of the other.

Connecting them that way the lower section handles the vast majority of the draining. Presently the sumps are completely dry but water is draining out the lower footing tile into the house drain tile so it's working as designed.....so far.

Thomas

 

[BB767]

Glad to see you’re using Form-a-drain for your footings. I used it on my house and it’s worked great. You might also consider running some drain pipe under the slab to relieve the pressure of the water under the slab if you have a high water table. Believe it or not the water pressure under the slab can cause cracks in the slab.

Also don’t forget to install under slab drains for the AC condensate water.

Building a house is not easy – you have a lot of work ahead of you – good luck.

oldschoolbob Form-A-Drain really is a terrific product isn't it? I wish I had invented it. Simple and highly effective.

Since the house site is on top of a hill, I don't think a high water table level will be an issue.



Remember this hole that I dug when I restored the original Rotary Lift in the old shop. It's about 12' deep and it was open like that for about 6 weeks while I restored the lift. All during that time there was never a hint of water in the hole, not a drop. The house site is a couple of hundred feet from there and is higher elevation than the old shop.

Thomas