stillp
Well-known member
Great detailing on the rounded corners and edges, not surprised though!
What material are those expansion boards?
Pete
What material are those expansion boards?
Pete
Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop
- Thread starter BB767
- Start date
Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
markviii
Well-known member
Unless someone can guarantee a way to clean up that drift rubber on the new driveway, I think that's a no-go. But the race team will return this summer, so who knows what will happen!
Chris
Chris
gordyy
Well-known member
I bet Thomas would be proud when the neighbors ask who laid down the rubber sliding around the driveway.
That would be my wife!!
That would be my wife!!
avgjoeracing
Member
Great thread! Great garage! Great, Great, Great,......!
Some amazing stuff you've done here. Can't wait to see what's next.
I got married at Philo Presbyterian a few years ago (my wife's from Champaign and knew the Pastor). Small world.
Thank you for doing all this work to let the world to see.
Some amazing stuff you've done here. Can't wait to see what's next.
I got married at Philo Presbyterian a few years ago (my wife's from Champaign and knew the Pastor). Small world.
Thank you for doing all this work to let the world to see.
Q & A Section.....
OK I've got a little time so I'll get to some of the backlog questions
While I did the design, a local, small Amish firm (3 persons) that specializes in only stair work made all the stair components and did much of the installation. I assisted where I was able in a calibrative effort. In order to get the house done in a timely manner I couldn't do it all, so this was an area where I chose to bring in a specialist.
I'll get some additional stair pictures posted...
...but I'm very happy with the results.
This is how the powered sub-woofer area turned out. You'd never guess what lurks behind that grill.
The screw heads and finish washers on the grill still need to be hand painted white.
Sure I can help with some of that but only in broad terms, otherwise I might get bogged down since that's such a vast subject area. My Dad (when he was alive) and I are charter subscribers (since 1975) to Fine Wood Working Magazine: http://www.finewoodworking.com/
I still have every issue and over the years have referred to it many, many times when doing a project. It's available on DVD's now which is a big help. That publication alone is filled with much of the information you seek and I highly recommend it. All the back issues are available on DVD and there are countless articles over the years that go right to the basics and would provide you with answers.
As for specifics to your questions on the steps...
...the side skirts were installed first and then the treads and risers were each shimmed to get a perfect fit.
Where necessary **** joints and on occasion some miter joints were back cut 1º-2º as necessary.
It's basic but using good quality equipment that is well adjusted and well maintained is very important. Also important is high quality saw blades ( I personally use Forrest blades: http://www.forrestblades.com/)
in areas where fit and finish will matter. I also send them back to Forrest to be sharpened when necessary. There's no one thing, rather an accumulation of a lot of small steps that get good results.
BlueBomber I've struggled to provide a useful answer for you. I fully appreciate the frustrations we've all had when a project just doesn't quite click and we don't get the results we'd like. If you have some additional questions or want more information just send a PM to me and I'll try to help out. Thank you for continuing to follow along here and contribute to this thread. That's what makes this interesting and fun for all of us.
For those of you who don't know about 4 years ago, Jake, aka wrigh003 voluntarily put together the thread index that is in the bottom of the first post of this thread. I have used it many times and I suspect many here have as well. I am extremely grateful to him for doing so since there is no way I would have had the time. Well done Jake!
Pete the only Danish oil used in the house is on the mantle. All other wood trim, cabinets and stairs have a sprayed on varnish that is both smooth and durable.
PS, the TR4 story has not been forgotten, promise!
Chris I've neglected to welcome you to our gang. I've been busy but I haven't forgotten. Thanks for your post and kind words of encouragement, I do appreciate it.
Steve I will be doing several posts about the wood shop in the basement in due time. It's still being set up but some of the machines have been in use for a while now. Short answer; the phase converter is working seamlessly. Very pleased so far. Stand by for more.
It was a lot of hand work but worth the effort. In person you can better see how nicely it finishes off the edges of the concrete. The expansion boards are a rubbery composite material that won't break down the way the old, black pressed wood ones did. I can get further information on them if you'd like.
Hi there avgjoeracing. Welcome and many thanks for your post. I grew up 1 1/2 blocks from that church and my first home was 1/2 block away from it. It is indeed a very small world. If you ever get back this way, please stop by. There is much more material headed this way so check back with us.
OK I've got a little time so I'll get to some of the backlog questions
While I did the design, a local, small Amish firm (3 persons) that specializes in only stair work made all the stair components and did much of the installation. I assisted where I was able in a calibrative effort. In order to get the house done in a timely manner I couldn't do it all, so this was an area where I chose to bring in a specialist.
I'll get some additional stair pictures posted...
...but I'm very happy with the results.
This is how the powered sub-woofer area turned out. You'd never guess what lurks behind that grill.
The screw heads and finish washers on the grill still need to be hand painted white.Sure I can help with some of that but only in broad terms, otherwise I might get bogged down since that's such a vast subject area. My Dad (when he was alive) and I are charter subscribers (since 1975) to Fine Wood Working Magazine: http://www.finewoodworking.com/
I still have every issue and over the years have referred to it many, many times when doing a project. It's available on DVD's now which is a big help. That publication alone is filled with much of the information you seek and I highly recommend it. All the back issues are available on DVD and there are countless articles over the years that go right to the basics and would provide you with answers.
As for specifics to your questions on the steps...
...the side skirts were installed first and then the treads and risers were each shimmed to get a perfect fit.
Where necessary **** joints and on occasion some miter joints were back cut 1º-2º as necessary.
It's basic but using good quality equipment that is well adjusted and well maintained is very important. Also important is high quality saw blades ( I personally use Forrest blades: http://www.forrestblades.com/)
in areas where fit and finish will matter. I also send them back to Forrest to be sharpened when necessary. There's no one thing, rather an accumulation of a lot of small steps that get good results.
BlueBomber I've struggled to provide a useful answer for you. I fully appreciate the frustrations we've all had when a project just doesn't quite click and we don't get the results we'd like. If you have some additional questions or want more information just send a PM to me and I'll try to help out. Thank you for continuing to follow along here and contribute to this thread. That's what makes this interesting and fun for all of us.
Holy cow you have stayed busy. I went to look at that index I made for this thing (once upon a time long ago, before I was quite so busy at work and in life in general) and now there's about half the thread uncatalogued.
Sadly I can't make any promises about being able to spend the time to extend it, but I wanted to pop in and say hi. Hope the center of the world up there in Philo is still treating you guys well.
For those of you who don't know about 4 years ago, Jake, aka wrigh003 voluntarily put together the thread index that is in the bottom of the first post of this thread. I have used it many times and I suspect many here have as well. I am extremely grateful to him for doing so since there is no way I would have had the time. Well done Jake!
Pete the only Danish oil used in the house is on the mantle. All other wood trim, cabinets and stairs have a sprayed on varnish that is both smooth and durable.
PS, the TR4 story has not been forgotten, promise!
Chris I've neglected to welcome you to our gang. I've been busy but I haven't forgotten. Thanks for your post and kind words of encouragement, I do appreciate it.
Steve I will be doing several posts about the wood shop in the basement in due time. It's still being set up but some of the machines have been in use for a while now. Short answer; the phase converter is working seamlessly. Very pleased so far. Stand by for more.
It was a lot of hand work but worth the effort. In person you can better see how nicely it finishes off the edges of the concrete. The expansion boards are a rubbery composite material that won't break down the way the old, black pressed wood ones did. I can get further information on them if you'd like.
Hi there avgjoeracing. Welcome and many thanks for your post. I grew up 1 1/2 blocks from that church and my first home was 1/2 block away from it. It is indeed a very small world. If you ever get back this way, please stop by. There is much more material headed this way so check back with us.
rlwhitetr3b
Well-known member
Re: Q & A Section.....
More important is are they clocked?
Rich
This is how the powered sub-woofer area turned out. You'd never guess what lurks behind that grill.
More important is are they clocked?
Rich
Re: Q & A Section.....
Yeah Rich, they're clocked! All is right with the universe still!
All the grills in the house came with industrial looking hex headed screws that I replaced with phillips headed screws and finish washers. I think it looks much more refined this way. Still need to paint all the screw heads and washers.
Thomas
More important is are they clocked?
Rich
Yeah Rich, they're clocked! All is right with the universe still!
All the grills in the house came with industrial looking hex headed screws that I replaced with phillips headed screws and finish washers. I think it looks much more refined this way. Still need to paint all the screw heads and washers.
Thomas
hobbitss
Well-known member
Re: Q & A Section.....
I would also be interested in additional stair assembly posts...
OK I've got a little time so I'll get to some of the backlog questions
While I did the design, a local, small Amish firm (3 persons) that specializes in only stair work made all the stair components and did much of the installation. I assisted where I was able in a calibrative effort. In order to get the house done in a timely manner I couldn't do it all, so this was an area where I chose to bring in a specialist.
I'll get some additional stair pictures posted...
...but I'm very happy with the results.
Sure I can help with some of that but only in broad terms, otherwise I might get bogged down since that's such a vast subject area. My Dad (when he was alive) and I are charter subscribers (since 1975) to Fine Wood Working Magazine: http://www.finewoodworking.com/
I still have every issue and over the years have referred to it many, many times when doing a project. It's available on DVD's now which is a big help. That publication alone is filled with much of the information you seek and I highly recommend it. All the back issues are available on DVD and there are countless articles over the years that go right to the basics and would provide you with answers.
As for specifics to your questions on the steps...
...the side skirts were installed first and then the treads and risers were each shimmed to get a perfect fit.
Where necessary **** joints and on occasion some miter joints were back cut 1º-2º as necessary.
It's basic but using good quality equipment that is well adjusted and well maintained is very important. Also important is high quality saw blades ( I personally use Forrest blades: http://www.forrestblades.com/)
in areas where fit and finish will matter. I also send them back to Forrest to be sharpened when necessary. There's no one thing, rather an accumulation of a lot of small steps that get good results.
BlueBomber I've struggled to provide a useful answer for you. I fully appreciate the frustrations we've all had when a project just doesn't quite click and we don't get the results we'd like. If you have some additional questions or want more information just send a PM to me and I'll try to help out. Thank you for continuing to follow along here and contribute to this thread. That's what makes this interesting and fun for all of us.
I would also be interested in additional stair assembly posts...
BlueBomber
Well-known member
Thomas: thanks for replying to my question and offering more info via PM tutoring. Especially on top of the daily work of finishing the last 10%-that-takes-90%-of-the-time. I've soaked up little details and tips over the years on wood joinery, but my kids both know my standard catch phrase in nearly any wood project is "This isn't precision cabinetry."
I don't have any specific question, just a general hurrah for anywhere you have time to share design and assembly techniques (as you've done throughout this thread). Thanks a heap!
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I don't have any specific question, just a general hurrah for anywhere you have time to share design and assembly techniques (as you've done throughout this thread). Thanks a heap!
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
stillp
Well-known member
Gatsby
Member
Hi Thomas
Update on Beltsville Shell
- Lyndon - Sydney, NSW Read
- VMX42 - Sydney, NSW Read
- 1/2 Cup - Shepparton, Victoria Read
- Nursepeter1973 - Western Australia Read
- BBChevro - Brisbane, Qld Read
- Panthersteve - Brisbane, Qld Read
- Gatsby - Canberra, ACT Read handed over to Terrickdownunder 10/4/17
- Terrickdownunder - near Canberra ACT After Gatsby
- Grumblebum - Wollongong, NSW Last!
Good Times and Great Cars
Regards
Gatsby
Update on Beltsville Shell
- Lyndon - Sydney, NSW Read
- VMX42 - Sydney, NSW Read
- 1/2 Cup - Shepparton, Victoria Read
- Nursepeter1973 - Western Australia Read
- BBChevro - Brisbane, Qld Read
- Panthersteve - Brisbane, Qld Read
- Gatsby - Canberra, ACT Read handed over to Terrickdownunder 10/4/17
- Terrickdownunder - near Canberra ACT After Gatsby
- Grumblebum - Wollongong, NSW Last!
Good Times and Great Cars
Regards
Gatsby
Many thanks for the update Gatsby. Once again, you fellows, like our UK and European brethren, are setting the Gold Standard on moving BS 1.0 along and keeping eveyone in the loop as to its status. Well done!
Grumblebum, since I see you're the last in Australia to read it and presumably will be sending it to williamhamilton - Wairarapa, New Zealand, would you please send him a PM with your contact information and I'd request he do the same for you. That seems to help minimize the chance it goes AOL again.
Once it comes back State side again, here's the preliminary list I've got for its 3rd North American tour:
- tkbowman - Burien, Washington
- 56vette461 - Northern California
- jbmatth - Northern Oklahoma
- 1949 caddyman - Arizona
- dpljmurphy - Port Angeles, WA
- rixtrix1 - Phoenix Az area
- rick8928 - Baltimore, MD
If there are others here in the USA or Canada that I've missed or that would like to read Beltsville Shell, please send me a PM and I will add you to the list.
Mike Oberst started this Beltsville Shell Traveling Brotherhood Book Club (BSTBBC) 4 1/2 years ago, October 31, 2012.
Since that time, this copy has been read and enjoyed...
...literally all over the world. All rather cool that everyone here is keeping this going. It's a testament to our gang and that it's just a great, fun book.
B.S. author Cary Thomas says this whole thing "is just crazy!"
Thomas
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dpljmurphy
Well-known member
We'll just refer to that area as "the kink". Pretty sure the Lotus is up to the challenge...[/QUOTE said:I never met Mark Donahue but I'm pretty sure he is smiling at the thought of that Lotus making time on the driveway
Grumblebum
Well-known member
Hi Thomas and Chris,
Still here, following along...
I believe I'll catch up with Lyndon after my turn and he is going to package up for the next leg of the tour to NZ. We can confirm via PM etc.
Cheers GB.
Still here, following along...
I believe I'll catch up with Lyndon after my turn and he is going to package up for the next leg of the tour to NZ. We can confirm via PM etc.
Cheers GB.
Lyndon
Well-known member
Rod/Thomas
I concur.
Besides, it'll be a good excuse for Rod and I to catch up again.
And I'll definitely make sure it gets away to the KIWI isles in a good fashion to round out it's Down Under tour.
So if our NZ friend would like to PM me his address, that would be rather splendid. (Did I just say that - out loud?)
Lyndon
Yep - I'm still here. Just very busy.
Yep - I'm still here. Just very busy.
Me too! I've been very busy...
...moving tons...
...and tons...
...and tons more of dirt. I'm dropping the grade where the old family house use to be.
With the old shop in the distance you can see that the old house site is now level and gently slopes away from the shop.
Compare the above...
...with the site grade lowered.
This is how the corner grade turned out. Before...
...after. Still more work to go on this corner but this is a start.
As the bulldozer pushed, the dirt ahead of it flowed...
...like a a glacier as it oozed along. Not completely done, but the majority of the heavy work is finished. Tomorrow I hope to beat the rain and get this part of the grade work finally wrapped up.
More is in store, check back. We're approaching the 1 year mark when we started this project.
Thomas
Grizz1963
Well-known member
Funny how my head and heart wants to be there, rake, shovel and Dutch hoe in hand to fine tune the grading. That's how I grew up.
I am currently digging a small 8x8x2.5 foot hole in my garden under a tee to build a garden tool shed, all manually, which is lovely, but with bad tendinitis in my right forearm and the left one threatening to go on strike, progress is slower than it used t be.
Your progress continues to anything but glacial in pace and certainly massive.
I love cut grass, so cringe at the grass being covered over, but of course it allows for fresh new growth and to get it landscaped for the new century that is headed towbar do its third decade already.....
Time flies.
I am currently digging a small 8x8x2.5 foot hole in my garden under a tee to build a garden tool shed, all manually, which is lovely, but with bad tendinitis in my right forearm and the left one threatening to go on strike, progress is slower than it used t be.
Your progress continues to anything but glacial in pace and certainly massive.
I love cut grass, so cringe at the grass being covered over, but of course it allows for fresh new growth and to get it landscaped for the new century that is headed towbar do its third decade already.....
Time flies.
stillp
Well-known member
Glad the weather stayed dry enough for you to move all that earth Thomas.
Pete
Pete
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I haven't checked in for awhile, but all I can say is.....I am blown away!!!!!! The attention to detail is awesome.
I thought you would like to know that people are still looking through this thread. I have lurked on GJ from time to time but this is the first thread I have read in depth (not every post but most of them), doing so on my down times at work. Anywho, I found This Post particularly interesting as I work at a manufacturing shop in Oskaloosa, IA and isn't a place you see mentioned much. Even if I was 7 years late to the party I am still very much interested in the transformation of this old shop. Kudos to you for living out most of our dreams and doing it with so much respect for the past.
Knyte Tyne
Well-known member
Thomas, Its become clear... I know whats going on now... Something I don't think anyone else has picked up on... The Grading... the Driveway... The Whole build in fact... Its just been an excuse for you to get to drive some heavy machinery hasn't it?
Uh oh, busted!!!!!!!!!!!
It has been more fun than you can possibly imagine. What a hoot!!
Licensed heavy equipment operator - Thomas
One Year Ago.........
One year ago here's what was going in The Center Of The Universe...
...we first started digging the basement.
In the background is the old family home. Just to the right of it you can see the honey house and beyond that the roof of the 2 car garage.
In the ensuing 12 months...
The basement walls were poured...
...all the floors poured and finished. Above is the garage floor.
The steel "backbone" of the house was set in place.
Floor joists installed, 16" on center. That's why the floors are so solid.
The sub-floor was placed, framing commenced...
...and the roof trusses were hoisted into position.
Next came roof decking...
...so we could protect the interior from the rains.
Soon stone started to appear outside and...
...inside...
...along with thousands and thousands of bricks.
The interior was insulated...
...so the mad, mad world of dry-wallers could invade.
Once that was done the interior could be trimmed out...
...with handsome solid hickory doors...
...and kitchen cabinetry...
...accented with hickory trim and...
...fine joinery.
In between it all, going on in the background were some mechanical systems...
...with...
...electrical power for them.
To be continued in Part II
Thomas
One year ago here's what was going in The Center Of The Universe...
...we first started digging the basement.
In the background is the old family home. Just to the right of it you can see the honey house and beyond that the roof of the 2 car garage.
In the ensuing 12 months...
The basement walls were poured...
...all the floors poured and finished. Above is the garage floor.
The steel "backbone" of the house was set in place.
Floor joists installed, 16" on center. That's why the floors are so solid.
The sub-floor was placed, framing commenced...
...and the roof trusses were hoisted into position.
Next came roof decking...
...so we could protect the interior from the rains.
Soon stone started to appear outside and...
...inside...
...along with thousands and thousands of bricks.
The interior was insulated...
...so the mad, mad world of dry-wallers could invade.
Once that was done the interior could be trimmed out...
...with handsome solid hickory doors...
...and kitchen cabinetry...
...accented with hickory trim and...
...fine joinery.
In between it all, going on in the background were some mechanical systems...
...with...
...electrical power for them.
To be continued in Part II
Thomas
Boosted1
Well-known member
Excellent recap of an outstanding build.
Looking forward to part II.
Looking forward to part II.
Grizz1963
Well-known member
Soooooo glad you have decided to do a summary of the progress too, could probably go into a slide show as well and look good, I know you were doing time lapse as well.
Privileged to have been to visit you guys on site, eaten Miss Crhris' Pumpkin pie and drunk from your garage drinks dispenser with Dennis Jones when I visited in St Louis MO.
Privileged to have been to visit you guys on site, eaten Miss Crhris' Pumpkin pie and drunk from your garage drinks dispenser with Dennis Jones when I visited in St Louis MO.
That's Rian on the left and Dennis on the right last year during their shop visit, having a cool one from the Pepsi machine.
"Back in the day" I remember Mr Johnson standing in that very same spot enjoying a Pepsi. Back then it looked much like this.
Thomas
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stillp
Well-known member
Nice recap Thomas.
So when are you going to change your username to something like CatD7?
Pete
So when are you going to change your username to something like CatD7?
Pete
lieutenant
Well-known member
Everything is awesome. Your attention to quality in everything is admirable. Did the floor in the barn ever lighten up, and did the sealer ever wear off?
Also, I see you have three foot overhangs which is great but would recommend gutters (copper 5inch) over those beautiful mahogany garage doors.
Also, I see you have three foot overhangs which is great but would recommend gutters (copper 5inch) over those beautiful mahogany garage doors.
And yet another lurker comes forth, hi there yates and welcome. No worries about just finding the thread, I'm glad you found us. I've got a few additions to the old shop lined up, so it's still a bit of work in progress but it is largely done. Check back from time to time for updates and thank you for your post and kind words of encouragement.
I'll admit I'd never heard of Oskaloosa before but now: http://www.oskaloosaiowa.org/
- I have.
I didn't know that in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, that it was a national center of bituminous coal mining. (yeah, that might be on the test) As you know I'm a big fan of small town Mid-West living.Hello lieutenant and a warm welcome to you sir as well. Good questions, yes the barn floor has lightened up considerably. It's more grey now, not 50 Shades of Gray, but more toward the grayish side. The concrete sealer finish is wearing but there isn't a lot of traffic in and out of the barn so it's taking time.
I will take your gutter suggestion (5 inch (12.7 cm) copper- good call) into consideration. Copper and mahogany, that would be spectacular wouldn't it?
Thomas
1949 caddyman
Well-known member
The copper will become green with age.
And yet another lurker comes forth, hi there yates and welcome. No worries about just finding the thread, I'm glad you found us. I've got a few additions to the old shop lined up, so it's still a bit of work in progress but it is largely done. Check back from time to time for updates and thank you for your post and kind words of encouragement.
I'll admit I'd never heard of Oskaloosa before but now: http://www.oskaloosaiowa.org/
- I have.
Thomas
Thomas, I cannot fault you for having never heard of us although Oskaloosa is home to some big name businesses that most have heard of: Musco Lighting is based out of here as well as where I work, Kelderman Air Suspensions. Another town about 10-15 miles away, Pella, is home to Pella windows and Vermeer.
If you ever make it over this way let me know, we may have a few things would interest an enthusiast like your self.
More Grade Work
I know it's not very glamorous or exciting work, but I'm still working outside. I let the bulldozer go just a little too soon. Still tweaking the site of the old family home.
After the first real heavy, hard rain since we did the initial grade work on the site, this water was left on the driveway. I needed to cut some more on the drainage waterway soooooo...
...Steve, my friend and fireplace guy, brought his John Deere tractor over with a rotary tiller attached...
...and I used my John Deere which just happens to be the same model as his, an 855. Mine had a grade box so between the two of us...
...we removed some more dirt...
...from the waterway. In the background you get an idea of how much more dirt we removed.
Next I'm tilling all the bare ground...
...in preparation for grass seeding. I got two large areas seeded and straw laid on it today and hope to make a serious dent in the remainder tomorrow. It's almost all hand work but it'll be nice to finally green it up around here.
Thomas
I know it's not very glamorous or exciting work, but I'm still working outside. I let the bulldozer go just a little too soon. Still tweaking the site of the old family home.
After the first real heavy, hard rain since we did the initial grade work on the site, this water was left on the driveway. I needed to cut some more on the drainage waterway soooooo...
...Steve, my friend and fireplace guy, brought his John Deere tractor over with a rotary tiller attached...
...and I used my John Deere which just happens to be the same model as his, an 855. Mine had a grade box so between the two of us...
...we removed some more dirt...
...from the waterway. In the background you get an idea of how much more dirt we removed.
Next I'm tilling all the bare ground...
...in preparation for grass seeding. I got two large areas seeded and straw laid on it today and hope to make a serious dent in the remainder tomorrow. It's almost all hand work but it'll be nice to finally green it up around here.
Thomas
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
Oskaloosa is also home to C.L. Barnhouse Company, Music Publishers since 1886.
Anyone who's played in a high school or college band should recognize that name.Oskaloosa is also home to C.L. Barnhouse Company, Music Publishers since 1886.
I never knew this, lol. I do not live in the town but rather in a larger one to the south so I am not up on all the ins and outs of Oskaloosa, thank you for teaching me something new.
djones1a
Well-known member
Oskaloosa is also home to C.L. Barnhouse Company, Music Publishers since 1886.
Also home to one very nice race track.
This is what makes this thread so interesting, all the various contributions from "the gang" here.
I'd post some pictures of my recent outside work, but it's always after sunset when I finish working so it's too dark to take any. Next rainy day I'll have a chance. I'm about 1/2 done with the seeding. Man, am I tired at the end of the day, but it's really starting to come together out there. Bare with me a bit longer yet.
Thomas
stillp
Well-known member
Wasn't there a famous jazz musician from Oskaloosa?
Pete
Pete
Not sure. Unfortunately I am not from there and only spend enough time there to get a paycheck
Sorry to derail the thread so much, Thomas.
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