Ridiculous difference in prices for contracting a build

[James-W]

Why wouldn't a customer shop around? And why would that person be a pita for doing so? I work hard for my money and try to get the best bang for the buck.

I don't think anybody is saying not to shop around. But price alone should not be the determining factor. Price is certainly important, and it is also true that a high price tag does not necessarily guarantee good quality or workmanship. On the other hand it is important to keep in mind that a builder needs to make a profit and it is difficult to get good quality from a builder who bids the job very low.

 

[sands35]

If you can find a contractor that just builds garages you might get a better deal both in price and quality. I shopped around and happened upon a garage only contractor. He had two garages going up and invited me to stop in and look at them and talk to the homeowners. I ended up not building due to other financial issues but when I do he will be the one I go with.

Yes.

A big factor in prices seamed to be how the guy capitalized his operation. Somebody with lots of equipment and stuff needs to pay for it. If the guys just does garages, the big equipment needed isn't so big.

 

[Onewolf]

We got estimates from 3 different general contractors last year for our detached garage/workshop build. I provided detailed floor plan and exterior elevation drawings, interior/exterior finish details (including full bathroom, HVAC, insulation requirements, etc). All three estimates came in between $48 and $55 per sq ft total, however the detail in the proposals varied between a simple "Everything is included" to 20 pages of details describing/pricing of every material/service.

 

[mpire]

I spent more time writing specs than I did drawing when I interned for a larger ARC firm in college.

Specs are everything, big thick ones with lots of details are where its at. You can specify what you want in the system, and then you can sue them for NOT using approved stuff after its done and get money back that way too.

That's just the name of the game. Lowest bidder usually gets the biggest projects anyways, and the specs keep them from cutting the corners they planned on cutting.

 

[Gear Wolf]

When a contractor says to me, "Show me the money," I will say, "Show me the data."

No sense in paying 3x with one contractor for the same thing unnecessarily.

 

[dhubbard422]

Hey Cody,

I don't know if you've given up on this group (you haven't posted in a while...) but it'd be hard for me to comment on the prices you received without more information. Is your lot flat? Is a driveway to be included in the quote? Are you just asking for prices for a shell? Or are you looking for prices that include electrical? Insulation? AC?

I've learned that a bit of slope makes the excavation & preparation for the slab expensive. That a new power service - new meter, new electrical panels, for both the house AND the workshop are not cheap... My driveway was about the same size as the workshop slab and almost as expensive (it was poured almost a year later and concrete prices soared during that time...)

Anyway, I should have a dried-in shell that I can start finishing the interior on by the end of the month and the building shell for a 30x36x12 (1080 sq ft) Morton building was less than the other stuff: lot prep, concrete slab, new electrical service, driveway and oversized/insulated overhead garage door. I'm also already over $40/sq ft and I contracted with all of the subs directly...

FWIW, I also had quotes that ranged far and wide. I had one contractor that just quoted off the top-of-his-head, while on the phone, that he'd do it for $80/sq ft (and I had asked only for a shell)... I had another say $50 per sq ft for a finished workshop, but he flaked out when I asked - when can you start? Currently, I expect that it'll be $50 - $60 per sq ft to complete the building and that assumes that I will finish the interior myself and that I will watch my budget carefully...

Good luck with your build.
Don

 

[David C]

Shopping a bid is when you tell 3 contractors that you want a bid and will take the lowest price. Then, after getting the bid prices, go to each contractor and ask them if they can beat the lowest price.

It is also when you tell the contractors bidding that you may not take the lowest price. Then after bids go back to the contractor that you want and tell him he can have the job if he matches the lowest price.

I don't think this is fair to the contractors that put good faith effort into their bid. It also isn't fair to set up a bid process to get a reliable cost estimate for your project.

You all can do what you want but respect and trust goes both ways. The difficulties we all have with contractors can, partially at least, be traced back to this lack of respect for a guys work in preparing a bid. You set the tone before the job even starts.

James W, out of curiousity, was the concept of bid shopping not made clear in my previous post.

 

[jgorm]

I'm finishing up a 25x33x16 metal building. My concrete quotes ranged from $8000 to $24,000. I paid 13,000. My quotes for the driveway were from $800 to $3000. I paid $1300. My quotes to hook up a 100a panel were $2500 to 3500, so I did it myself for $1000 in materials. My drywall quotes were $1400 and $2200 for the office area. I paid $1400 and it turned out nice. My quotes for the entire building from a general contractor were $80,000 to 90000 and I'm coming in under $60K. There is a framed office and bathroom included in the $60K.

 

[jmarkwolf]

If you can find a contractor that just builds garages you might get a better deal both in price and quality. I shopped around and happened upon a garage only contractor.

This is what I did also.

I got three quotes with the same criteria, stick-built, 2x6 framing, 28ft x 30ft, attic trusses, from three contractors.

One was a garage only contractor, and the other 2 were general residential builders.

The garage only guy came in at $32,000, the other two came in at $50,000.

Guess who I went with!

 

[bczygan]

I spent more time writing specs than I did drawing when I interned for a larger ARC firm in college.

Specs are everything, big thick ones with lots of details are where its at. You can specify what you want in the system, and then you can sue them for NOT using approved stuff after its done and get money back that way too.

That's just the name of the game. Lowest bidder usually gets the biggest projects anyways, and the specs keep them from cutting the corners they planned on cutting.

THIS.

A contract is a way for two parties, who's only interest is their own self interest, to agree upon a project.

Anything not detailed and specified, can then be done (Or not done) in a way that benefits the contractor.

We developed specs over time. They became more and more detailed, to better control the outcome.

The better the specifications, the more the expectations of all the parties will align.

 

[APEowner]

When I've had wide swings in bids like that it's always been because there was something undefined in the bid package. Either an issue that only one contractor was aware of or unaware of or some thing like doors or windows that were undefined so that there was a big swing in pricing.

It's not reasonable to ask the a high bidder to meet a lower bid price. An honest contractor won't pad their bid so it's offensive to them to ask them to meet a cost and you don't want to use one that will.

It is however, reasonable to ask for an explanation for their bid. It may be that a change or clearer definition of the scope of work would result in a lower bid.

One other thing that can effect pricing is the size of the outfit that's doing the bidding. If you've got a contractor that's used to doing multimillion dollar projects bidding against one that considers a garage build a big project you'll get huge differences in price just from their overhead, even when they're both capable of doing a good job.

 

[Anarius]

I'm not a builder/buildee, so I have no advice on the construction, but what I do have a lot of experience with is estimating jobs. Now, the jobs I estimate are for automotive repair, which is a little more standardized. However fair and honest I try to be, if someone tells me (or their attitude makes me suspect) that they will be shopping around, I double-check to make sure my estimate is accurate and clear.

Why? Because I know that another shop might see my quote, and I don't want to give them ammunition to bash me with the customer. If I quote a job at $400 and another shop says they can do it for $250, not only do I lose the job, I lose some of my hard-earned reputation.

When I was looking for a price on the roof of my garage, I got 4 quotes. One was a pro roofing company that does business with my work...they were the "middle of the road" (written) quote, all their math jibed. I had another pro roofing company that just gave me a quote over the phone for almost the same price, but I didn't accept that based on the fact that they never even looked at it, measured it, or anything. That tells me that they feel they have enough profit margin to overcome any issues, or feel comfortable coming back to me and asking for more.

The point of this block of text is actually the low bid - a longtime customer of the shop I work at who is always coming in and bullshitting/showing off pictures of his work. He came out and looked at it, bullshitted with me for awhile, and then gave me a written quote a few days later. Told me if I paid his cost on materials he'd do it for $700 labor including the dumpster. If I was a trusting guy, I'd have taken the bid then and there (it was $1400 cheaper!). I think that is what his business is based on. But I read the quote and realized he was billing me for enough material to roof multiple garages. 300' of drip edge? 16 sq of shingles? 24 tubes of solar seal? Its a 24x24 for shits sake.

My boss hired him for a remodel of a 1/2 bath.....and 2 months later it is almost done and only $2000 over budget!

I guess my point is this: compare apples to apples, get references, and if a "professional" doesn't want to act like it, then he doesn't need your money.