Rock Solid/Citadel vs U-Coat-It and others

[romelle]

I went to purchase U-Coat-It this year, after having done my research last year, and learned the dealer has switched to a different product. For DIY it is www.rocksolidfloors.com, and for having someone else apply it is www.citadelfloors.com. The product is polyurea, and the claims are that it won't yellow and is stronger than the epoxy U-Coat-It. Also can apply in lower temperatures and it sets up faster so the whole process can be done in a day.

I've read until I'm cross-eyed, emailed both companies, etc. Anybody else have any experience with the RockSolid/Citadel product? I'd really appreciate hearing of any experiences, good or bad. (I did find and read the thread by sixty4 after I posted this.)

Thank you,
Romelle

I have also written to Wolverine, mentioning Garage Journal, and am looking forward to a response from Fred.

Whatever I decide, I do promise to post results here. My garage is a pretty standard slightly oversized 2 car - 24x22.

(I took the liberty of reposting this as a new thread, since I first put it up in the general sticky, and it didn't draw any comments. I'm guessing that up there it just didn't get read?)

 

['the epoxy floor guy']

I am in fact VERY experienced with Citadel / Rock Solid.

They are all but 100% identical to our product, So a GREAT one.

The company and its owner Patrick Ilfrey, are Very capable and reliable.
The technology you read about is correct it is Stronger, tougher, and faster than 'epoxy'.

As far as the quality it is MUCH better than most others I know of.

The Two things that I can share with you that may effect your decision:

#1 the product has a slightly higher cost than your other products,

#2, Because the product dries more quickly as you can guess you must MOVE FAST when installing the product. NOT Dangerously fast but Mixing Smaller batches and having a helper will help with this problem.

Great stuff.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

The company and its owner Patrick Ilfrey, are Very capable and reliable.
The technology you read about is correct it is Stronger, tougher, and faster than 'epoxy'.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this statement. It's like saying that a car is faster than a horse. Well, what kind of car? What kind of horse? If you have an old Yugo (remember those) http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658529,00.html... The top speed on some of those was about 40-45 mph. And, there ARE horses that can run faster than that. http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/horsespeedmph.htm

I would say that this material would have better UV resistance than an epoxy. We are familiar with Rock Solid, Citadel, and this technology. We make similar technologies and DO NOT offer them for a DIY application. We don't offer this technology to the DIYer because we feel like it would be irresponsible. There is ALWAYS a learning curve as you do something that you've never done before. So, we feel like the product should have as much 'open time' as possible to allow more time to fix something if someone screws up in the process. The extra open time is also important if you are 'cutting in' next to the walls. There is nothing worse than making a mistake and being 'under the gun' to get it repaired. Most bad decisions are the ones that are made in haste. These types of Polyurea chemistry are the reaction products of epoxy curing agents and urethane curing agents. They are very sensitive to moisture during application and some polyureas want to dry on the roller as you are applying it.

So, while the technology is sound... we feel like it should be applied by a professional with experience. (Experience helps you do a job... faster) In addition, I always have issues with contractors that claim to manufacture a product that they don't. While I'm not 100% sure, I'm pretty sure that this is the case here.

OK... all of that said.... Is the chemistry better than U-Coat it? I would say... absolutely. But, as ANY manufacturer will tell you... A product is only as good as the application. So, a product that is more DIY installer friendly may end up getting the better result. BUT, most importantly, what do you get for the money? While (in general) steel might be stronger than wood, an inch of wood is stronger than steel foil. Thickness matters... What do you get for the money?

 

[romelle]

Thank you both, 'the epoxy floor guy' and WolverineCoatings, for your responses. Lots to think about. I am concerned about this, and will continue investigating.

Sincerely,
Romelle

 

[Fuller]

I've been installing Citadel's products for about 6 months now. The pro version, not the DIY kit.

Good Company, knowledgeable staff and well designed products although in 95 degree temps and 95% humidity conditions it can be challenging. They recently came up with a "Super Slow" version that is a lot easier to work with.

I have not used their RockSolid brand but I assume it would be designed as a more forgiving product.

I will say that my 100% epoxy / urethane floors look better to the eye but I do believe in the newer technology aspects of Polyurea / polyaspartic.

Does that help?

 

[thegarageguy]

Most pro 1 day polyaspartic systems are about 70% solids for primers and about 85% solids as their topcoats. They are thinned out so it will cure slower , hence have more work time and easier to install. A DIY version must be even more solvent based. I'm guessing 50% solids. Some manufacturers make 100% solids but many installers tend not to use it because of its difficulty to use and its a bit more expensive.

Since these systems need to be thinned out to be workable, the end product is a very thin floor. So thin that most older, damaged, pourous and or seriously detiriorated floors will not work well with the system. Its build isnt high enough to hide such flaws.

These 1 day systems are solvent based. Some claim 0 VOC.......By the way, I hear a big franchise will be announcing to their franchisees that its system is not 0 VOC any day now. Maybe all those watery eyes during their process made some people ask questions.

I don't believe in one system fits all. No one system can cover every aspect of every concrete problem. This is why industrial resin manufacturers have many different formulations.

 

[rcleaver]

I saw a guy on an automotive TV show who said not to expect more than about 10 years from these type of products. That elevates the already high price to the level of a rip-off IMO.

 

[sixty4]

I had originally asked the same question (no one had heard of it then). I went with Rocksolid/Citadel Flooring system. After having it down since the end of last winter it is well worth the money! It still looks as good as the day it went down! I have all my lawn equipment and daily driver cars in this garage and the stuff works. I have spilled gas and have worked on my cars and even rolled a jack around. I will be putting up another garage in the spring and will use their product again without hesitation! The only thing that I did was order an extra top coat for the shine (probably didn't need to but wanted the extra protection just in case).
Best of luck with whatever you go with.

 

[romelle]

Well, I did go ahead and buy the Rock Solid product. Spent today acid etching the floor, and tomorrow my son and I are going to actually roll out the stuff. I'm excited about it.

I do appreciate the positive message, sixty4, as at this point I do need a little encouragement. Thank you!

Romelle

 

[sixty4]

Take your time! Clean, Clean and Clean! Its not hard just really time consuming.. Post up pics when done......

Heres mine:

Sixty4,,,,

 

[garage_man]

Killer Garage Sixty4!

 

[J_T_P]

These 1 day systems are solvent based. Some claim 0 VOC.......By the way, I hear a big franchise will be announcing to their franchisees that its system is not 0 VOC any day now. Maybe all those watery eyes during their process made some people ask questions.

0 VOC does NOT always mean solvent free. There are a handful of solvents that are not classified as a VOC with acetone and oxsol 100 being the most commonly used in coatings.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Seems like RockSolid has dug up another old post to brag about.
Wasn't this started in 08' ?

 

[PaulR]

LOL, I laugh because every other section of the Garage Journal Forums are just normal guys, wrenchers, hobbyists, mechanics, then you come to the flooring section and it's all Corporate Vendors/Salespeople at eachothers throats!!!!

kidding mostly, you all seem to play well together for the most part. I know I tend to not knock my fellow accountants, even if they are local competitors.

Paul

 

[Hammerdown]

LOL, I laugh because every other section of the Garage Journal Forums are just normal guys, wrenchers, hobbyists, mechanics, then you come to the flooring section and it's all Corporate Vendors/Salespeople at eachothers throats!!!!

kidding mostly, you all seem to play well together for the most part. I know I tend to not knock my fellow accountants, even if they are local competitors.

Paul

It does appear this way at times. I do think it is funny when a thread is ressurected from the dead, and it starts a new life like Frankensteins Monster!
I think these vendors do play nice mostly, and it goes as friendly competition. I always respect a product or salesperson more when they don't bash anybody else. If you spend more time talking about products that aren't your own, it makes me wonder why?

 

[Hammerdown]

Seems like RockSolid has dug up another old post to brag about.
Wasn't this started in 08' ?

It was started in October of 2008. It looks like the "resurrector" only joined a couple of days ago and probably searched for this flooring system.

 

[garage_man]

am i the "resurrector" ?

I just think his stone and columns are really nice, there is a lot of attention to detail in that garage you don't generally see in that space, at least here in MN. nice ceiling fan, sconces, light fixtures . .

That's what i would want in a garage, sixty4

 

[PaulR]

fight Fight FIGHT!!!!!!!

 

[Hammerdown]

am i the "resurrector" ?

I just think his stone and columns are really nice, there is a lot of attention to detail in that garage you don't generally see in that space, at least here in MN. nice ceiling fan, sconces, light fixtures . .

That's what i would want in a garage, sixty4

They are nice and it is a nice floor, and I think your opinion is valid. It's just like it seems that manufacturers reps come on and dig up old threads that suit there needs, and your posts do seem to slam epoxy-coat and praise rock solid, so I think people assumed you are a rep or have something to gain by pushing a particular product.
I even thought you were a mfg rep of Citadel products I know of in Minneapolis, but a visit to your website (which is very nice) got rid of that notion.
Welcome aboard and have fun. I think you've inadvertantly kicked a hornets nest, which is fun to watch!

 

[Garage_man1]

hammerdown, i guess me talking back was too much for this forum and they decided to kick me off for a few weeks, does legacy run this forum?

well, thanks for the input, just think its bull when a guy who has no idea who i am or what i am about calls me out on every thread i posted like that. he obviously didnt check my posts or try to see what i was about before bashing and slandering me, then i'm the guy that gets kicked off.

maybe we should call this the epoxy-coat journal

 

[Garage_man1]

legacy, you got beef with me, pm me and we can talk in private, you don't need to go tell on a guy for having a strong opinion and getting attacked

 

[Hammerdown]

hammerdown, i guess me talking back was too much for this forum and they decided to kick me off for a few weeks, does legacy run this forum?

well, thanks for the input, just think its bull when a guy who has no idea who i am or what i am about calls me out on every thread i posted like that. he obviously didnt check my posts or try to see what i was about before bashing and slandering me, then i'm the guy that gets kicked off.

maybe we should call this the epoxy-coat journal

I hope you haven't gotten kicked off for your posts, as none of them seemed warranted for banning. I know the mods like to keep things civil, but you were attacked and you replied. I thought each was a little personal, but it does seem funny that a Mfg. rep is calling out a guy who may be a mfg. rep. I hope you are not banned, as this would seem to be favortism, since Epoxy-Coat is a sponsor of the sight. It would appear that any dissention will not be tolerated, which is B.S.
I personally have used a number of coatings, and prefer ucoat it to any of these for ease of application and it has performed very well for me over the years. I don't slam it home in every post, or hardly any for that matter because I want to be a help, not just shill something I like. I think the only advantage polyurea systems offer is the one day application time, not its durability or longevity. I seem to remember a thread on hear mentioning problems between the dealers and the mfg of this polyurea system, but my searches revealed nothing, only this thread.

I think that may systems have something good to offer, and you should expect coatings to perform well, but they're not bullet proof. I installed a 350s/f floor about a month ago for a customer who wanted a very durable coating over a floor that was rough and pitted, needed crack fill and repair and a cove added. I did not think I'd get the job because the bid was high, about $1200 dollars in materials + labor $$$$, and while it may seem ridiculous to some, the customer was extremely happy with the way it turned out.
I don't come on here to get business or tout any product, I just think its a great sight with things I'm interested in, and every once in a while I get to be of help to someone, which I like. Plus some of the Free Parking threads make me LMAO!

 

[Garage_man1]

I guess maybe the moderators can tell me why i was banned until Jan 6th for responding to attacks, ill wait for their response, or maybe they are picking favorites and protecting their sponsors, is this a forum for people to speak freely or is this just a place for sponsors to talk directly to their customers and pitch their products??

that is the question i guess.

 

[Hammerdown]

legacy, you got beef with me, pm me and we can talk in private, you don't need to go tell on a guy for having a strong opinion and getting attacked

Tell on a guy for stating his opinion?
Say it ain't so!
Garage_man1, at first I swore you were a Citadel/Rock Solid dealer, but now think differently. I jumped to a conclusion based on the way your posts sounded, but after a little investigation I think you just have a strong opion about a product you like, as do I and most people on this forum will.

Now stick to your guns, and you'll meet at the big oak tree at sundown to settle this once and for all!

 

[PaulR]

This is a message board but it's not public it is owned and paid for, and the people behind it run a business and get sponsored. That ***** what happened, I really don't agree either personally but as we know business is business. This will all be erased very soon I imagine. Hopefully my explanation and thoughts don't get me banned. :shock: it's nice to see different vendors here. I know Bull personally kinda so maybe the admin gods will spare me!
P

 

[Hammerdown]

This is a message board but it's not public it is owned and paid for, and the people behind it run a business and get sponsored. That ***** what happened, I really don't agree either personally but as we know business is business. This will all be erased very soon I imagine. Hopefully my explanation and thoughts don't get me banned. :shock: it's nice to see different vendors here. I know Bull personally kinda so maybe the admin gods will spare me!
P

I thought this thread would die soon, but why would it be erased?
Because one member talked about a product different than a sponsored product, and pointed out a thread where that product had issues? That would be unfair and reduce the credibility of this Forum. When Wolverine got plastered for a couple of weeks, that thread was allowed to stay and everybody took a swipe. I felt bad that it was a top-ten thread daily, but I know how hard Wolverine pushed his product, so a lot of people pushed back when something went amiss. I think he offers a more balanced answer now, while still believing and selling his product, good for him. He obviously knows a lot and has a lot to offer. Taking sides or favorites because one product is a sponsor kinda defeats the purpose of the board. I know its a buisness, but that would make it more like a monopoly. What if Citadel or Wolverine offered a better sponsorship? Would people who speak out about that be banned or threads deleted?
I like this forum and don't mind anyone having fun, an argument or whatever. Thats what this whole internet thinga-ma-giggy is good for. I try to stay out of the fray and laugh from the sidelines, but Garage man pushed no harder than MANY other people and vendors on here, so I think its a missed call on banning him. I wish I had a red challenge flag to toss in and see if this one can be over-turned.
Officials, I beleive we need a review from the booth.

 

[Garage_man1]

Thanks for the support guys, Hopefully my original name will be restored soon and my posts, I dont think we cant call it a forum if people cannot speak freely about a product and their opinions with other people who have tried the same product or other products, the whole point of the flooring section of this site is to help people make decisions by talking to other people who have used the systems, hopefully we can keep this at the top for a while and get a solid answer from the people running this forum about why they erased my posts and felt the need to block me from this site.

THANKFULLY, i don't give up that easily!

 

[Garage_man1]

just an FYI for you guys, this is what is says when i try to log in:

You have been banned for the following reason:
forum misuse... drama...

Date the ban will be lifted: 01-06-2011, 01:00 PM

i guess ill keep my alter ego until then!

 

[kywildcat]

That's a bunch of ****!!! Good luck to you GM1

 

[ThatsWhatSheSaid]

Tell on a guy for stating his opinion?
Say it ain't so!
Garage_man1, at first I swore you were a Citadel/Rock Solid dealer, but now think differently. I jumped to a conclusion based on the way your posts sounded, but after a little investigation I think you just have a strong opion about a product you like, as do I and most people on this forum will.

Now stick to your guns, and you'll meet at the big oak tree at sundown to settle this once and for all!

yeah i thought the same until I looked through the other posts by garage man and noticed he had more to offer then just advice on floor coatings. He also made comments on roofing and slabs which showed his knowledge as a contractor. I wouldnt blame him for letting people know about a product he was happy with as I would do the same.

 

[green.bubbly]

This thread wreaks of partisanship. I spent some time looking trough past posts of GM and I see that he has discussed more than the product he brags about. There were also many posts that he could have mentioned his chosen product and did not.

I really do not care if he is a rep or not as I do not find where he ever bashed another product beyond giving a simple opinion.

Honestly, it seems to be the other party involved that is causing more trouble. I spend a lot of time reading great threads and it would certainly be a shame if a sponsor was given preferential treatment. I see more "drama" from the other member.

 

[Garage_man1]

Guys, my next post was the post i made that got me removed for 2 weeks, lets see how one sided this forum is! I will try again. this post may very well be gone as well. as they deleted a bunch of my other ones last time also, so hopefully you guys subscribed and will get this in your email before they have a chance to remove it!

 

[Garage_man1]

Legacy, what the heck is your problem, you are on every post telling people i work for rock solid and that i am slandering your product! i came on here to help people and learn more about what people are doing with their garages, i am a general contractor here in mn, we build and remodel great homes, check out my posts, i hopefully have already helped a few people with their projects,

all you are doing on here is selling Epoxy-coat, and there are many people on here who say they have had problems with it,

sorry i had the guts to say something good about one of your competitors that you are obviously worried about, i used their product after much research, and spent a lot of money on it, and i love it, of course i am gonna get on here and look for other people that have used it and see how they liked it.

You need to go pitch your products like everyone else, at the store, or from your email list and quit harassing members of this forum for your benefit.

How much is epoxy-coat and christine paying you to spend all day on this forum pimping their product and telling everyone how good it is when obviously it has its limitations. maybe i should call rock solid and spend my day bashing you guys on here, maybe they will pay me or give me some free stuff.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Legacy, what the heck is your problem, you are on every post telling people i work for rock solid and that i am slandering your product! i came on here to help people and learn more about what people are doing with their garages, i am a general contractor here in mn, we build and remodel great homes, check out my posts, i hopefully have already helped a few people with their projects,

all you are doing on here is selling Epoxy-coat, and there are many people on here who say they have had problems with it,

sorry i had the guts to say something good about one of your competitors that you are obviously worried about, i used their product after much research, and spent a lot of money on it, and i love it, of course i am gonna get on here and look for other people that have used it and see how they liked it.

You need to go pitch your products like everyone else, at the store, or from your email list and quit harassing members of this forum for your benefit.

How much is epoxy-coat and christine paying you to spend all day on this forum pimping their product and telling everyone how good it is when obviously it has its limitations. maybe i should call rock solid and spend my day bashing you guys on here, maybe they will pay me or give me some free stuff.

That is the post that got you banned??????

 

[Garage_man1]

yep, Crazy huh, makes you wonder!

 

[rugerlady]

OK, I have been out of the office for about a week and missed all the drama. I have made no posts, am not represented by anyone else, and have said nothing about any of this to anyone. Kinda hard to do from a hospital room!
I have not read through every thread on here about all this, but I do resent the fact that people are saying the board is playing favorites.
Let me make it crystal clear that Legacy does not work for us or get kickbacks from Epoxy-Coat.

 

[2chipped]

Please continue this is fascinating.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Legacy, what the heck is your problem, you are on every post telling people i work for rock solid and that i am slandering your product! i came on here to help people and learn more about what people are doing with their garages, i am a general contractor here in mn, we build and remodel great homes, check out my posts, i hopefully have already helped a few people with their projects,

all you are doing on here is selling Epoxy-coat, and there are many people on here who say they have had problems with it,

sorry i had the guts to say something good about one of your competitors that you are obviously worried about, i used their product after much research, and spent a lot of money on it, and i love it, of course i am gonna get on here and look for other people that have used it and see how they liked it.

You need to go pitch your products like everyone else, at the store, or from your email list and quit harassing members of this forum for your benefit.

How much is epoxy-coat and christine paying you to spend all day on this forum pimping their product and telling everyone how good it is when obviously it has its limitations. maybe i should call rock solid and spend my day bashing you guys on here, maybe they will pay me or give me some free stuff.

For the record...
I don't work for Christine or Epoxy-Coat and I am not a sponsor for this site,
although I might consider it.
In addition to this, I did not report you.

For every thread where I mention or link to a product there are 5 or 6 where I offer friendly advice or an opinion and ask for nothing in return. When my opinion differs from my competitors, I don't bash them and if I heard a story or claim of a product being poorly made, I would keep it to myself as it is probably HEAR SAY.

You are free to spend your day doing whatever it is you care to do.

In regards to your posts, I am entitled to make my opinion known as are you.

 

[green.bubbly]

Legacy, I am not trying to takes sides and I am a relatively insignificant member here and do not read every post. With that said, I seem to recall you questioning his motive when you are doing the same exact thing he does.

I will apologize in advance if I am mistaken but reading through the majority of the posts that both of you have made, they are fairly similar. I do not know why you called him out in another thread.

 

[Hank 1]

I'm new to this board and reading the above posts, I'm "floored".