Run ethernet cable or do wireless?

[Deude_Mann]

Since you already have the conduit, I agree with everyone that says running Cat 5 or 6 cable is the way to go. Plug one end into your existing router, and the other end into a switch at the garage, or an access point, or a wireless router, depending on what you are doing over there.

Terminating Cat 5/6 cables can be a PIA but the crimp-on connectors are getting to be a lot easier to use than they used to be. Get some connectors, a crimping tool, and an ethernet cable tester, and you can make and test your own with relative ease. Don't let that bother you too much. You can buy bulk cable and make your own.

I have seen reeeealy long terminated ethernet cables for sale. Just buy one that is too long and roll up the surplus. It won't hurt anything. I have run ethernet over 400' and it still works well enough unless you are streaming 10 4K videos simultaneously or running a server farm.

So I have set up a 9 mile and a 2 mile link using Ubiquiti Nano gear, use their APs, and routers, and switches, and use a Unifi Mesh antenna to send wifi outdoors around the house. I like Ubiquiti and it is good equipment. But keep in mind you will need to understand at least basic networking and IP to deploy this stuff. Otherwise it can get confusing and frustrating very quickly. I've been messing with it for years and still have to do my homework each time I try something new; LAN deployment/management is not my day job.

 

[Deude_Mann]

If you want to blast wifi around your yard, get one of these and mount it where it will have line-of-sight (LOS) to wherever you want wifi. I have one of these on a pole mounted to my roof. It plugs into my router and uses PoE for power.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAAWOGO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jeepxj]

Distance doesnt matter either

I setup a 45mile link using 5Ghz Ubnt airfibers with a 4200' elevation difference. Get 100Mbps on the station side in the mountains.

correct for 2.4 and 5. the 24 stuff gets impacted by rain. got my signals crossed there.

 

[jeepxj]

terminating ethernet is not hard. if you can dig a trench for the cable you can terminate the end. if you get it wrong and it doesn't work, cut it off and try again. you'll get it.

 

[gte718p]

I'm with the crowd. If you didn't have a conduit I would use Ubiquiti and not think twice about it. I have installed links several times and use their access points in my house. Since you have a conduit, I would run a hard wire. It is cheap, easy, and gives you room to grow.

 

[Tom Sestito]

Just run a cable and use an old router as a wifi extender, with the same network name/password. Make sure the end router is set up as a bridge. Lots of info on google.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the info! Since I did run the conduit (a couple extra actually) I will use it!
So I will get CAT6 cable and do the two router setup. The primary in the house will be the netgear R6400v2 router and I have an older linksys wrt54G in a drawer that I believe I can use.
So with the above solution, what can I add to have more coverage in the backyard? Is there a single "broadcast" device I can mount under my soffit that would improve coverage? or would I need a "system"?

Thanks!

 

[Denwood]

If you use the wrt54G router, don't use the WAN ports, and disable DHCP on it.

Set the WIFI on wrt54G to the same SID and password as your house. Done. You don't need a system. The wrt54G will give you WIFI coverage in your back yard, and your devices will roam to that WIFI connection when your house connection is very weak, or drops. That said, the wrt54G is old and wifi performance will not be great. Max on the wrt54g for WIFI is 54Mbps vs 500Mbps (actual tested performance) for the product I've linked below.

Better buzz for your buck in the garage is something like the Netgear EX7000 set up as an access point. This gives you decent AC1900 class WIFI, and 5 network ports for cameras etc in your shop. Again, match your house WIFI's SID and password on the EX7000. It's also a better match (a bit faster WIFI actually) than your R6400v2.

You'll find that it's hard to find a WIFI access point with multiple 1000 Mbps (gigabit) ports and AC class WIFI for under $100. If you don't care about adding network ports in your shop, the TPLink RE450 is an AC class access point with a single gigabit port for around $80. They sell it as a range extender buy you can configure it in wired access point mode.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just run a cable and use an old router as a wifi extender, with the same network name/password. Make sure the end router is set up as a bridge. Lots of info on google.

No you dont need to do that.

Bridge isnt even the correct term here.

A bridge would be a wireless P2P.....

Just make sure to turn off DHCP

 

[jpcjguy]

If you use the wrt54G router, don't use the WAN ports, and disable DHCP on it.

Set the WIFI on wrt54G to the same SID and password as your house. Done. You don't need a system. The wrt54G will give you WIFI coverage in your back yard, and your devices will roam to that WIFI connection when your house connection is very weak, or drops. That said, the wrt54G is old and wifi performance will not be great. Max on the wrt54g for WIFI is 54Mbps vs 500Mbps (actual tested performance) for the product I've linked below.

Better buzz for your buck in the garage is something like the Netgear EX7000 set up as an access point. This gives you decent AC1900 class WIFI, and 5 network ports for cameras etc in your shop. Again, match your house WIFI's SID and password on the EX7000. It's also a better match (a bit faster WIFI actually) than your R6400v2.

You'll find that it's hard to find a WIFI access point with multiple 1000 Mbps (gigabit) ports and AC class WIFI for under $100. If you don't care about adding network ports in your shop, the TPLink RE450 is an AC class access point with a single gigabit port for around $80. They sell it as a range extender buy you can configure it in wired access point mode.

Ok - so I like the netgear option you listed - especially for ability for cameras down the road. Since the EX7000 is a new/better model than the R6400, should I look to replace the house router and then use the R6400 as the access point in the garage?

 

[Denwood]

The EX7000 is not a router. It's a range extender / wired access point. I would leave your router as is You won't see a big difference in WIFI speed between them.

If you're looking for gigabit routing speeds over OpenVPN, then that's another question

 

[jpcjguy]

The EX7000 is not a router. It's a range extender / wired access point. I would leave your router as is You won't see a big difference in WIFI speed between them.

If you're looking for gigabit routing speeds over OpenVPN, then that's another question

Right - sorry I was not clear. Since most of my time is in the house, would it make sense to get a newer/better router for the house and then use my current house router as an access point? Just speculating here. If there is really no noticeable difference in newer routers and what I currently run (the R6400) I will keep it as is and get the access point.

As for speed needs, the kids have an xbox, and then we stream netflix, prime video - max is 3 screens at once (boys in one room, daughter in another and wife and I in the third). With the garage it could move to 4 screens as I would be out there instead of with the wife in the family room. And that is on the rare time we are all watching different things at the same time. I assume we are on the low end for a family usage currently (boys are 10 and daughter is almost 7 - so no teenagers yet)

 

[Denwood]

There is likely no performance advantage you'll see replacing that router given your use case Just leave it and get a decent access point after you run the CAT6. Make sure you test the cable if you're DIY'ing it with at least a cheap LAN tester.

Also, budget for one of these at both ends (about $80 US for a set) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00805VUD8/?tag=atomicindus04-20

I've toasted one access point in the shop due to lightning/voltage differences between the house/shop. Added a set of surge suppressors like those last year.

 

[Git]

Right - sorry I was not clear. Since most of my time is in the house, would it make sense to get a newer/better router for the house and then use my current house router as an access point? Just speculating here. If there is really no noticeable difference in newer routers and what I currently run (the R6400) I will keep it as is and get the access point.

As for speed needs, the kids have an xbox, and then we stream netflix, prime video - max is 3 screens at once (boys in one room, daughter in another and wife and I in the third). With the garage it could move to 4 screens as I would be out there instead of with the wife in the family room. And that is on the rare time we are all watching different things at the same time. I assume we are on the low end for a family usage currently (boys are 10 and daughter is almost 7 - so no teenagers yet)

If you want to spend some money, it would make sense to purchase a two-piece ORBI system as previously noted and you will have great coverage. The main ORBI router goes in your house and the Satellite Orbi would go in your garage using the cat6 as the backhaul. $200 from Costco.com. If it doesn't work out to your satisfaction, even a year down the line, you just return it for a full refund

 

[Deude_Mann]

So with the above solution, what can I add to have more coverage in the backyard? Is there a single "broadcast" device I can mount under my soffit that would improve coverage? or would I need a "system"?

Thanks!

What you want is an access point (AP). There are a lot of choices. I'll link again to the one I linked to above and then another one (since you mentioned an eave mount). Both for outdoor, both Ubiquiti, both dual-band, both with AES level encryption (security).

Intended for pole mount
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAAWOGO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This would work mounted under a soffit. I have personally used one like this on a soffit. Keep in mind the house will block the signal so it will only have good coverage where you can see it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015PRO512/?tag=atomicindus08-20

In both cases, you just run an ethernet cable to where it is mounted, plug it into the PoE, and then plug that into the router.

ONE WARNING ABOUT THE UBIQUITI DEVICES... The newer ones can only be configured by the Ubiquiti 'Controller' software (PC version available); it's great for enterprise, more of a PIA for home users IMO.. If the Ubiquiti device comes with older firmware, you have to do some non-trivial gymnastics to manually update the AP firmware before the Controller software will even recognize it. I just went through this with a UAP-AC-M and it was a PIA. I have also not been very impressed with Ubiquiti tech support lately. In most cases I have to go onto the forums and dig for info because their tech support is either too slow or does not really understand the problem. It took them over two hours to help me diagnose and fix a brand-new AP I had an issue with, and it could have been handled in 10 minutes if they had better support.

TP-Link makes a few outdoor compatible AP devices, and theirs still use built-in web servers for configuration, like your routers do. Other brands do as well.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What you want is an access point (AP). There are a lot of choices. I'll link again to the one I linked to above and then another one (since you mentioned an eave mount). Both for outdoor, both Ubiquiti, both dual-band, both with AES level encryption (security).

Intended for pole mount
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAAWOGO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This would work mounted under a soffit. I have personally used one like this on a soffit. Keep in mind the house will block the signal so it will only have good coverage where you can see it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015PRO512/?tag=atomicindus08-20

In both cases, you just run an ethernet cable to where it is mounted, plug it into the PoE, and then plug that into the router.

ONE WARNING ABOUT THE UBIQUITI DEVICES... The newer ones can only be configured by the Ubiquiti 'Controller' software (PC version available); it's great for enterprise, more of a PIA for home users IMO.. If the Ubiquiti device comes with older firmware, you have to do some non-trivial gymnastics to manually update the AP firmware before the Controller software will even recognize it. I just went through this with a UAP-AC-M and it was a PIA.

TP-Link makes a few outdoor compatible AP devices, and theirs still use built-in web servers for configuration, like your routers do. Other brands do as well.

This is a bit misleading.

The ONLY ubiquiti devices that need a controller are the Unifi line of products. Non-unifi models DO NOT need a controller to program them. Radios such as the nano stations, air fibers, rocket Ms, etc

And even then the UniFi stuff can be logged into vi SSH and programmed without a controller via command line script.

Also, for outdoor use, i wouldnt use an indoor AP. Get an outdoor mesh AP with external antennas. The indoor APs use an on-board directional antenna that projects signal down from the radio when mounted on a ceiling. The outdoor units with external antennas will have better range and can get wet.

 

[Deude_Mann]

Right, but the two items I linked to are both Unifi products. And, the average Joe (consumer) has no idea what logging in via SSH and command line configuration even means. THAT is what I mean by non-trivial gymnastics. I've done it and I call that a PIA that would not happen with a web interface. And since I linked to the Unifi products, I included the caveat.

I am not the only person that complains about this. The forums are full of Ubiquiti customers that have the same complaint.

Again, if someone is a network admin pro, you know this stuff. It's your job. If not, then it's a PIA.

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread. Ugh...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It was the way you said it

“One warning about the ubiquiti devices”

And

“The newer ones can only be....”

There are radios that are newer than the UniFi line but since they are non-unifi they dont require a controller.

Im just trying to be more clear here and help someone who is reading this 2 years from now...

 

[Deude_Mann]

Yep I am trying to do the same. All good.

 

[Denwood]

..and further to that, I avoid the Ubiquity APs as a recommendation for home use specifically due to the need for Unifi software to configure. Most home owners don't have a POE switch or injector to power them either. In my enterprise installs, yes, they are great when managing multiple sites and 12 devices. The ability to manage a single enterprise SID for an org in one place alone is worth the extra work of maintaining a VM for Unifi software. They are not so much fun commissioning on IP networks different from the controller software though. The AP AC PRO is also a bit dated on the WIFI side at AC1300. That said, the AP AC PRO is my number one commercial recommendation.

For home use, different story. My recommendation right now as a wired AP is the EX7000 (which I use at home) to just add an AP with some gigabit ethernet ports...or the TPLINK RE650 for one gigabit port. These are perfect for most of our shop needs, and will extend coverage in the yard as JPC was looking for...at AC1900 speeds with five gigabit ports, for $120. So 2-3 years down the line when he adds a few 4K security cams he will be happy. I also consider them disposable in case of lightning issues. Don't be fooled by the marketing of these devices as WIFI extenders. They both have wired AP modes which is the only way I would use them personally.

One thing we all agree on is that a wired CAT6 in existing conduit is the right way to start

 

[kj_mustang]

If you only have 1 or 2 Unifi APs to install, you don't have to use the full controller software. They have a mobile app that you can use to do the initial setup. It doesn't give you all the features of the full controller software but it gets it up and running pretty quickly. I just installed a Unifi AC Lite on Monday this way. You can search for "Standalone device" in their support for more info.

 

[MBfreak]

Statement posted
Q One thing we all agree on is that a wired CAT6 in existing conduit is the right way to start UQ

No, not at all.
Run an optofibre connection with el/opto in house and opto/el converter at garage.

Lightning proof. Use right hardware and get no restriction in bandwidth.

Ola

 

[jeepxj]

Statement posted
Q One thing we all agree on is that a wired CAT6 in existing conduit is the right way to start UQ

No, not at all.
Run an optofibre connection with el/opto in house and opto/el converter at garage.

Lightning proof. Use right hardware and get no restriction in bandwidth.

Ola

you buying?

the cost of replacing an ethernet cable multiple times is well under the cost of doing it that way.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

you buying?

the cost of replacing an ethernet cable multiple times is well under the cost of doing it that way.

The ethernet cable needing replacement is not what he is referring to

When lightning strikes, you may have to replace a whole lot more than just a cable

 

[Deude_Mann]

If you only have 1 or 2 Unifi APs to install, you don't have to use the full controller software. They have a mobile app that you can use to do the initial setup. It doesn't give you all the features of the full controller software but it gets it up and running pretty quickly. I just installed a Unifi AC Lite on Monday this way. You can search for "Standalone device" in their support for more info.

Not if the firmware is not current... Then you need a laptop and a ethernet adapter, and know how to config the IP so you can SSH into the AP and manually update the firmware. BTDT, the mobile app did not save me.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not if the firmware is not current... Then you need a laptop and a ethernet adapter, and know how to config the IP so you can SSH into the AP and manually update the firmware. BTDT, the mobile app did not save me.

yeah thats correct because the mobile is a new feature and requires the latest firmware.

in that case just download the controller software for a PC and update the firmware that way

 

[Denwood]

A PITA for an AC1300 class device for home use that costs $188 CAD..and requires a POE injector or POE switch....just saying. Home users really don't need the hassle of Unifi and configuration. I just ordered a 5 pack of the AP AC PROs for a commercial job. Do I use them at home? Nope.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I dont use them at home either.

My nighthawk R7000 does just fine

 

[ddawg16]

Nice thing about physical cable like Cat6.....it doesn't need firmware upgrades.

 

[Git]

AI just ordered a 5 pack of the AP AC PROs for a commercial job. Do I use them at home? Nope.

I dont use them at home either.

My nighthawk R7000 does just fine

LOL - why didn't you guys just say that at the start! If you don't use the stuff at home, why would some 'joe blow' homeowner use it?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

LOL - why didn't you guys just say that at the start! If you don't use the stuff at home, why would some 'joe blow' homeowner use it?

I know lots of residential customers that have unifi in their house. ive installed some of it.

I dont use it because Ive had this nighthawk since before UniFi was even around and it works fine.

If and when it kicks the bucket, Ill be switching to UniFi

 

[jeepxj]

I put in unifi to clients and use it at home.

 

[jeepxj]

The ethernet cable needing replacement is not what he is referring to

When lightning strikes, you may have to replace a whole lot more than just a cable

yea i'm still not of the opinion it really matters in the risk, insurance, PIA factor ratios enough to matter for most home owners.

 

[Deude_Mann]

yeah thats correct because the mobile is a new feature and requires the latest firmware.

in that case just download the controller software for a PC and update the firmware that way

No, now you are using a circular argument... As I wrote earlier, the PC version of the Controller software will also not recognize the device if it has old firmware, and the user is back to SSH updates.

AGAIN, Ubiquiti is nice equipment for the price. And again I have deployed it at home, and set up long distance Ubiquiti backbones. I only set up the backbone because I had no other choice to get internet access; I'm not a pro.

BUT Ubiquiti is not always a good idea for the average consumer, who may also not be a pro, because it is often not as easy to deploy as consumer gear like TP-Link, which works just fine for most non-enterprise uses.

In THIS instance, I still stand by the recommendation that the OP use ethernet cable in the conduit, and a local consumer AP or wireless router for the garage network. For blasting wifi around the yard, there are several choices there, including the Ubiquiti Unifi Mesh unit, but the above caveats apply.

 

[jeepxj]

No, now we are in a circular discussion... As I wrote earlier, the PC version of the Controller software will also not recognize the device if it has old firmware, and the user is back to SSH updates.

AGAIN, Ubiquiti is nice equipment for the price. And again I have deployed it at home, and set up long distance Ubiquiti backbones. BUT it is not always a good idea for the average consumer, who may not be a pro, because it is often not as easy to deploy as consumer gear like TP-Link, which works just fine for most non-enterprise uses.

How many homeowners are updating anything in their home network? unifi, linksys, tplink, etc. rare if at all IMO.


Have you setup a unifi dream machine yet? It takes it down to a "tp-link" level of complexity IMO.

also they sell PtP links that are pre-setup. just plug and play.

the complexity factory of unifi vs other home gear is getting closer and closer. I agree its still more complex than your best buy special but dang close at this point. the avg home owner is coming up in their tech ability as well.

 

[ddawg16]

I've been getting by just fine with this.....

 

[Deude_Mann]

The difference on the updates is that the Ubiquiti Unifi devices do not have a web interface, and thus rely on either the Controller software or SSH command line configuration. If the firmware is too old, then the Controller software won't work and one reverts to the SSH command line until the update is in place.

With a web interface device one can get to it regardless of how old the firmware is and configure it with a GUI of some sort.

Once it works, the Unifi and Controller stuff is quite nice. It would just not be cool IMO to point the OP (or anyone) to a Unifi solution without the heads-up. They buy it, try to deploy it, the Controller software won't recognize it because the firmware is too old, and then they are back here asking WTH.

"Oh yeah man, I forgot to mention that...". Or "Well, you should have bought the $300 Dream Machine". And good luck with Ubiquiti tech support.

What I do not get is why Ubiquiti did not allow for both options on the Unifi equipment. Maybe it is a matter of memory or software complexity in a small device. But if they had also included a web interface option, at least for firmware updates, then it would be a lot easier for the end user to deploy.

 

[Deude_Mann]

I've been getting by just fine with this.....

Ha! Yep, that works...

WAN<---->Router<---->house 1200 baud modem<---->PA amplifier<---->electromagnetic resonator<---->conduit<---->electromagnetic resonator<---->mic amp<---->garage 1200 baud modem<---->garage router

IT.... COULD....WORK!!!!!!

 

[ddawg16]

Ha! Yep, that works...

WAN<---->Router<---->house 1200 baud modem<---->PA amplifier<---->electromagnetic resonator<---->conduit<---->electromagnetic resonator<---->mic amp<---->garage 1200 baud modem<---->garage router

IT.... COULD....WORK!!!!!!

You forgot the inverted flux capacitor fed by a toroid.....

 

[Denwood]

I dont use them at home either.

My nighthawk R7000 does just fine

The EX7000 and R7000 are in a decent sweet spot right now with respect to price and practical real world performance for anyone having a need for WIFI/access points. The TPlink RE450 is also nice for wired access point as it is the lowest cost I've found with a gigabit port. No point throttling things to a 100Mbit AP if you have 300 or 600 Mbps internet service.

I use pFsense as a router pretty much exclusively for the last decade because I use it in the enterprise a lot and like to have a machine at the home office for testing VPN, site-to-site tunnels routing etc. I grew frustrated with router feature sets a long time ago. In fact, I'm deploying six of them shortly based on these boxes (fanless i5 7200u) to replace a Cisco network.

They can route gigabit with no fuss and hit 600Mbps with SSL OpenVPN running a decent SNORT IDS/IPS package. Pfsense also does a nice (and actually usable) job of load balancing multiple ISP connections efficiently as well. For a non-profit with IT support..perfect. Would I recommend for a non-tech person...nope. Same reason as I can't recommend Unifi products for home use.

Is fibre aweseome? Sure. But running a few CAT5/6 cables gives you all the extra pairs to work with. I've had good luck with these Tupavco ethernet surge arrestors. They should be part of any intersite ethernet link installation IMHO.