Running main ground wire from panel to rods

[going88mph]

Hello,

Trying to finish up my garage wiring, and I need to connect the service panel (200a) in the garage to two 8-foot ground rods outside via a #6 bare copper wire.

What is the tidiest way to do this?

Thanks.

 

[pattenp]

That's a very open question. It all depends on the set up you have. The ground wire can be run down the wall in a 1/2" piece of conduit or strapped to the back of the service conduit or just left bare. Mine is run out the wall bare and strapped to the back of the service conduit and buried bare to the rods.

 

[going88mph]

That's a very open question. It all depends on the set up you have. The ground wire can be run down the wall in a 1/2" piece of conduit or strapped to the back of the service conduit or just left bare. Mine is run out the wall bare and strapped to the back of the service conduit and buried bare to the rods.

So you just drilled through your sheathing/siding and caulked it? I would feel pretty lousy doing that after I just took the time to install the meter base on a vinyl j-block to prevent water infiltration.

 

[pattenp]

Yep.. I just drilled a 3/16" hole and pulled it through. That's why I said it's open as to how it can be done. You didn't give any details of what your siding is or how the wall is constructed or how the service enters the building.

 

[madosta]

Mine is installed through the LB where a hole was drilled through the bottom and exits there to the ground.

So you have vinyl siding and a meter base and probably a mast or underground service?

There isn't really a perfect concealed way to do it, but why is it all finished without one already?

You can run it behind the vinyl down to the foundation and out to your ground rods, yea you'll see it or some conduit.

 

[going88mph]

I have vinyl siding on a stick-built garage with underground service that is forthcoming. Before the power company will run service, I need to pass inspection. The inspector won't pass it until there are two 8' ground rods installed 6 feet apart connected to the service panel by #6 wire. I just thought that maybe there was a fitting or something I could get to run the ground wire from the meter base where it would look more "finished."

 

[Zeke]

Unfortunately the ground and it's connections need to be accessible and that sometimes means visible. If you didn't plan for the ground in the construction phase, you don't have too many choices. Remember that it has to be continuous.

 

[pattenp]

I do not believe you can use the meter base box as a pass through for the service panel earth ground wire. You need to check with your inspector before you take that route.

Edit: Can you run it down inside the wall and bore the concrete to get it outside?

 

[going88mph]

Unfortunately the ground and it's connections need to be accessible and that sometimes means visible. If you didn't plan for the ground in the construction phase, you don't have too many choices. Remember that it has to be continuous.

It's not that I don't want it to be visible. I'm OK with that. The point that I'm concerned about is how it exits from the building. Drilling a hole in vinyl siding and caulking it looks bad (no offense to anyone).

Being able to run it through the meter base and alongside the conduit where it comes up from the ground would look much better. Can you make a suggestion, Zeke?

 

[Zeke]

It's not that I don't want it to be visible. I'm OK with that. The point that I'm concerned about is how it exits from the building. Drilling a hole in vinyl siding and caulking it looks bad (no offense to anyone).

Being able to run it through the meter base and alongside the conduit where it comes up from the ground would look much better. Can you make a suggestion, Zeke?

I think you just did. I don't see anything where ground wire can't run through a meter base to get to the panel as long as it is continuous.

 

[gatchel]

My panel feed comes through a conduit up through filled block in to the stud cavity where the load center is located. I drilled next to the conduit down at an angle through the block with a 36" long 1/2 inch bit and a hammer drill. I angled it such that the hole blew out the side near the ground level. The ground wire follows this path to the first ground rod and then on to the second rod along the building. Once completely wired and inspected, I filled the exterior hole with concrete patch (stucco) and then completed the finish stucco coat.

Anything within code will work. How much time do you want to spend to make it look clean?...

 

[pattenp]

I think you just did. I don't see anything where ground wire can't run through a meter base to get to the panel as long as it is continuous.

I don't see anything in the NEC that prohibits this, but I know there are places that don't allow the meter socket enclosure to be used as a raceway for other wiring. The OP needs to check with his AHJ before he does this so not to be told later he can't.

 

[kert]

drill your hole just under where the conduit comes into the meter base and ziptie the ground wire to the conduit. Then tuck it up along the starter for your siding. Accessible, but invisible.

 

[hh76]

I don't see anything in the NEC that prohibits this, but I know there are places that don't allow the meter socket enclosure to be used as a raceway for other wiring. The OP needs to check with his AHJ before he does this so not to be told later he can't.

I think your utility will have rules about what is allowed in their sockets. I know I wouldn't run a ground wire through a utility meter around here.

drill your hole just under where the conduit comes into the meter base and ziptie the ground wire to the conduit. Then tuck it up along the starter for your siding. Accessible, but invisible.

This is what I would do, or see if you can get the wire behind the siding.

 

[23 CHIEF]

I know this is an old thred but i can the ground wire be ran thru the LB like madosta said

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I know this is an old thred but i can the ground wire be ran thru the LB like madosta said

Solid #6 is very stiff and difficult to work with. It would be a real bear to get thru and LB, but not impossible.

I have an outside combo panel of meter and 200 amp disconnect, so the ground originates in this panel. just came out the bottom and down the wall to the rod.

Note that most panels have, usually in the top and bottom, back corners, a 3/16 or ¼ knockout just for the ground wire to exit the box. Its quite small and you have to use a punch and hammer to get it out.

Charles

 

[dw1]

I guess it all depends where you are? around here you cant run anything out the meterbase, the power company will not allow it. If you run EMT it has to be continuos from the panel to your rod, run a 1/2" pvc LB and short piece of pvc down to the ground. Around here the inspector makes us install the Interconnected Bonding Terminal so the phone, Catv and Satelite co. have a bonding/grounding terminal at the service.

 

[23 CHIEF]

I need to run the ground from the rods into the building to the sub panel I am gonna use ufb cable for the main and bare for this ground would it be a code violation to run it thru the LB and small stub out with the ufb into the building or is there a better way

 

[alfredeneuman]

. If you run EMT it has to be continuos from the panel to your rod, .

There is nothing in the Code that stipulates that it be continuous from the panel to the rod.

It does however, say that BOTH ends of a ferrous conduit (EMT, Rigid etc)
need to bonded to the ground wire encased within. Even an iron LB is subject to this.

That makes a great case for using PVC instead

 

[CNGsaves]

There is nothing in the Code that stipulates that it {EMT pipe} be continuous from the panel to the rod.

It does however, say that BOTH ends of a ferrous conduit (EMT, Rigid etc)
need to bonded to the ground wire encased within. Even an iron LB is subject to this.

That makes a great case for using PVC instead

Wire itself must be continuous.

. . . . . see below post by Alfred for bonding clamp example. Makes this all clear !!

 

[alfredeneuman]

. . . . . waiting for Sparky replies . . . . . in . . . .3, 2 , 1

I wasn't saying the WIRE ...... If you read the original quote correctly it says the EMT. You put the {wire} part in yourself.

The wire must be continuous.

The only exception to the ground wire itself is that you can splice the wire with an exothermic weld, or an irreversible crimp connection

 

[dw1]

There is nothing in the Code that stipulates that it be continuous from the panel to the rod.

It does however, say that BOTH ends of a ferrous conduit (EMT, Rigid etc)
need to bonded to the ground wire encased within. Even an iron LB is subject to this.

That makes a great case for using PVC instead

I will have to run that by AHJ, I know around here, if its in EMT, they deifnately require a ground bushing in the panel, I have always used a ground clamp w/ 1/2" hub to run EMT into and the ground wire runs through this and clamps to ground rod (In one continuos path to ground rod)
This is why I always use PVC, no matter how big the service is, it doesnt have to be bonded ect and is cheaper, easier and quicker!

 

[alfredeneuman]

A ground clamp with a hub

satisfies the requirement for being bonded at both ends.

If the EMT doesn't extend all the way to the rod, a connector with the type of grounding bushing you use in the panel would qualify
You could just use the hub part of the ground clamp without the actual clamp part to avoid the tight twisting of the wire needed for the grounding bushing

 

[teamextreme]

This is why I always run #4 copper and eliminate the conduit and bonding brain damage, as it doesn't require protection from physical damage. Plus there's no debate on whether a particular location is subject to physical damage.

 

[23 CHIEF]

My LB is gonna be pvc I just want to know if I can run the bare ground wire into the building in the same hole or if it has to be separated

 

[Mustang51js]

This is why I always run #4 copper and eliminate the conduit and bonding brain damage, as it doesn't require protection from physical damage. Plus there's no debate on whether a particular location is subject to physical damage.

I use #6 copper for ground rods, i have never once put a ground wire imto a pipe outside,and ive done over a 100 services. Never had it questioned so just goes to show you its different areas

 

[dw1]

As stated above, as long as the wire is protected from physical damage, you dont have to run any piping (You can run the wire down the side of the building), but if you want to, drill a hole into your siding, use pvc LB fitting and extend pvc pipe down to the ground, fasten pvc pipe with minneralac or one hole clamps. Do they enforce the ICBT in your area?
I hope this helps!
http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/LT19313.pdf

A little more reading material that might help better explain!
http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/grounding-and-bonding-part-1-3
This ICBT goes inline of the uncut ground wire to the first ground rod

 

[CNGsaves]

I wasn't saying the WIRE ...... If you read the original quote correctly it says the EMT. You put the {wire} part in yourself.

The wire must be continuous.

The only exception to the ground wire itself is that you can splice the wire with an exothermic weld, or an irreversible crimp connection

A ground clamp with a hub

satisfies the requirement for being bonded at both ends.

If the EMT doesn't extend all the way to the rod, a connector with the type of grounding bushing you use in the panel would qualify
You could just use the hub part of the ground clamp without the actual clamp part to avoid the tight twisting of the wire needed for the grounding bushing

Oooops . . . my bad. I was reading your reply literally in error. I re-worded that post.

Thanks for clarifying and displaying the bonding clamp above. This same topic pops up every now and then, and your reply is clear now with above. Thanks !!

 

[23 CHIEF]

OK let me try this I want to run the ground wire thats going to rods out of the building in the same LB stub out that my Ufb cable will be going thru

 

[Mustang51js]

I don't see a problem with that

 

[23 CHIEF]

I know off topic but what size LB for 6-3 ufb

 

[23 CHIEF]

I don't see a problem with that

Thanks for the help

 

[Mustang51js]

I know off topic but what size LB for 6-3 ufb

I would do at least a 1 inch just to make it easier to bend,could get away with 3/4 but not worth the aggravation

 

[23 CHIEF]

I would do at least a 1 inch just to make it easier to bend,could get away with 3/4 but not worth the aggravation

Thanks again great to have this forum lots of knowledge here

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Is there a ground lug inside your meter socket?Well I guess that doesn't matter if its a sub panel off the house service,too little info .
Anyway Id run a #4 ground for a 200A service,And id run it down the exterior in a piece of 3/4-1" pvc to protect it down to the ground.

 

[ddawg16]

Too late now.....but an Ufer would have solved your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground

 

[toplessHO]

That's a very open question. It all depends on the set up you have. The ground wire can be run down the wall in a 1/2" piece of conduit or strapped to the back of the service conduit or just left bare. Mine is run out the wall bare and strapped to the back of the service conduit and buried bare to the rods.

using metal conduit on grounding system and not having it bonded is a no no

 

[23 CHIEF]

Can I drill a small hole at the edge of my foundation and run my solid 6 ga ground wire out that way

 

[tlmartin84]

How does metal siding factor into this equation?

 

[Cmreschke]

For ground rods, anything bigger than #6 is just wasting money.

Playing devils advocate here, but, can you cite me the article number that requires the wire to be continuous from rod to rod, for example if I've got 2 pieces of wire that won't be long enough to go panel rod rod then why can't I go panel to rod 1, then panel to rod 2?
Where does it say it has to go panel to rod to rod without a break? And why?