Running Power to Shed

[Azarius]

Hey guys, currently building a 16x12...

Here's the link to my build so far...

So I was wondering about running electrical...

10/3 from 30A main panel in house, out to shed via pvc conduit 18" underground, to subpanel in garage with 2 20A breakers... 1 for lights, 1 for outlets.

I do not have any large power draw items such as welders or AC unit or anything out there...

Thoughts?

 

[AndyCBR]

Sounds good as long as you can live with those loads.

You'll need to run 4 wires (one will be ground) so the neutral and ground will be separate in the sub panel.

In the US the detached building has to have its own dedicated ground rod also.

 

[bczygan]

Did you leave some conduit in the slab pour?

 

[Azarius]

No slab... concrete block...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hey guys, currently building a 16x12...

Here's the link to my build so far...

So I was wondering about running electrical...

10/3 from 30A main panel in house, out to shed via pvc conduit 18" underground, to subpanel in garage with 2 20A breakers... 1 for lights, 1 for outlets.

I do not have any large power draw items such as welders or AC unit or anything out there...

Thoughts?

u mentioned 10/3. What type of wire will u be using?

10/3 implies either NM-b or UF-B. NM-b cant be used underground even in conduit.

UF-B on the otherhand can be ran underground and direct buried. However, UF-b is a PITA to pull in conduit and not recommended.

The neutral bus in the subpanel needs to be isolated and u will most likely need to buy a ground bar kit.

 

[Azarius]

This wire, just in a much smaller purchase ~loL~

I've heard that about the netural bus in the panel... I'm going to have an electrician come in and do the hook up, I'm just going to do the manual work of trench digging and running the cable and such...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

**** I just realized your in Canada so everything i said(which is US NEC code) may not apply to u.

Yes the wire is underground rated...

Carry on...

 

[Azarius]

Dug my trench to run the power tomorrow.. Very exciting!


Starting to wonder if 10/3 will be enough...

 

[simpler=better]

It's never enough!

If you're on a budget, stick with the plan to run 10ga but put it in oversized conduit-1" or 1.5"

If you need more power in the future you can easily pull in 8ga or 6ga (Yes a 3/4" would be technically enough, but 1" or 1.5" is going to be easier to pull through)

 

[Azarius]

My budget is pretty flexible...

I mean, the 10/3 wire will cost me about $7/metre, where as the 8/3 is about $8.90/metre... Now 6/3 jumps to $13.50/metre!

Of course If I jumped to 8/3 I'd move up to a 40amp double pole in the house, and 20amps in the shed... this correct? Or could I run 3 15amps (lights/plugs and one for an exterior outlet on the shed)

Add: I'm using direct burial wire, so no conduit...

 

[simpler=better]

UF-B 8/3 can handle 40A

UF-B 6/3 can handle 55A

http://www.cerrowire.com/ampacity-charts

Your shed breakers can add up to more than 40A, you just need to keep in mind that running everything at capacity is a no-no. For example, 20A compressor, 20A welder, 15A lights, 20A outlets...don't run the compressor while you're welding with 2 toasters plugged into the outlets at the same time

 

[theoldwizard1]

My budget is pretty flexible...

I mean, the 10/3 wire will cost me about $7/metre, where as the 8/3 is about $8.90/metre... Now 6/3 jumps to $13.50/metre!

If you have the money, go with the 6/3 or 8/3.

In the shed, install a 6-8 slot (12-16 circuit) main lug load center. Should be <$50C. I don't know Canadian code, but in the US, if you have less than 6 circuits, you do not need a disconnect (main breaker), although it is a good idea. Even thoygh it is a main lug load center, the feed can come through an appropriately sized 2P breaker which would be your disconnect.

This gives you the flexibility of adding a 240V outlet in the future.

 

[Azarius]

Here's my subpanel (100amp, 6 spots)

LOL @ simpler=better - I'll keep that in mind about the two toasters

The 6/3 is a bit too pricey, but I can do 8/3 np...

Main Panel - > 40 amp 2p breaker -> 8/3 -> sub panel - multiple 15 or 20 amp breakers?

1 breaker = interior outlet
1 breaker = lights
1 breaker = exterior outlet

Am I getting there?? lol

Add: I've got 150m of 14/2... Which is rated for 15amp, but I should really have 20amp in the workshop and upgrade to 12/2... Right? RIIIIGHT? lol

 

[G_P]

I would run at least #8. Better to have more power in case you decide to run a larger load out there.
My shed is only powered by #10 and I wish it was bigger so I could run my welder there.

 

[Norcal]

Run in PVC conduit and oversize it a little that way it affords it a little more protection & if you need more power in the future it's easy to upgrade plus I hate direct burial cables. I don't know how the CEC rates conductors but 8 AWG THWN is rated for 50A.

 

[ishiboo]

60A, 120V seems like plenty of power for a 12x16 shed, IMO. If you decide to weld or have an air compressor or something large in it in the future, then you may run into issues.

 

[chops101]

X2 on running conduit, it is cheap enough.
Sure beats re-trenching if you go bigger in the future.

 

[jvitez]

I looked through your shed build thread, but I don't see anything about what you plan on doing in there. You said you won't have welders or AC, but what is the purpose of the shed? Storage only? Small woodworking shop? Artist shop? Please tell us your plans.

To do a proper load calc for an outbuilding like this you need to think about what electrical load you plan to use now, and anything you reasonably might do in the future. Add up the wattage rating of everything you might be using at the same time, divide by 240, and that's the amperage rating of the feeder wire/breaker you should install. If it's really a storage shed and you might be sharpening lawnmower blades, drilling holes with a corded drill, just putzing-around-type-of homeowner stuff then your 30 amp feed will be plenty. 30A x 240V= 7200 watts, ie lots.

Now if you plan on electric heat and woodworking equipment, your loads will be higher. Please give us details of your plans for this shed.

 

[Azarius]

Hey!

Basically it's for storage with a couple of work benches for puttering and took storage. No welder or AC. I do have a propane heater if I get that far. I don't have any woodworking tools per say, other than the usual mitre saw, small table saw kind of thing. Usual home owner type of stuff.

Update: I did go with 10/3 and have already ran it and trenched it (no conduit). I have the subpanel mounted and 3 20 amp breakers installed so far. The 30amp 2p is already installed in my main panel.

Now I did pick upthis panel. There isn't a grounding bar in it, but it came with a small bag with two bolts and a small bar which lolls like a smaller version of the neutral bar. Now I thought this might be the grounding bar (which will not be bonded), but I can't see how it attaches to the panel itself... Bolts don't fit anywhere. :$

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Make sure the neutral bar isnt bonded to the enclosure, cant tell if theres a green screw on it...

That extra bar that came with the panel can be used as a ground bar.

There should be prepunched holes for mounting it..

What is the brand and model of the panel?

 

[Azarius]

Check the pic I attached... The panel is linked in my last post. The neutral bar is separated from the metal by the plastic behind it...

There are 8 pre punched holes but the bolts provided don't fit and there's no threads in the holes to boot...

Thanks!

 

[Norcal]

Check the pic I attached... The panel is linked in my last post. The neutral bar is separated from the metal by the plastic behind it...

There are 8 pre punched holes but the bolts provided don't fit and there's no threads in the holes to boot...

Thanks!

Are you using the same manufacturer ground bar kit as the panel? There is no such thing as a standardized accessories between manufacturers & the screws should tap their own threads as you tighten them.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Check the pic I attached... The panel is linked in my last post. The neutral bar is separated from the metal by the plastic behind it...

There are 8 pre punched holes but the bolts provided don't fit and there's no threads in the holes to boot...

Thanks!

Do the screws/bolts have a tapered groove in them? If so, those are for cutting threads in the prepunched holes. Thats why the holes dont have threads....

Are you using the same manufacturer ground bar kit as the panel? There is no such thing as a standardized accessories between manufacturers & the screws should tap their own threads as you tighten them.

He mentioned in #19 that the extra bar came with the panel...

 

[Azarius]

Alright upon trial I was able to use the screws provided and secure it through the predrilled holes in the bottom right hand corner of that picture. Yay, problem solved lol

 

[Azarius]

Someone have a quick look. Ok??

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Looks fine

 

[Azarius]

Yay

Big day!