rust inside brake calipers: use converter or remover?

[apollo11]

$10/caliper for seals. $15 for a brake cylinder hone. 30 minutes per caliper to disassemble, clean, and re-assemble (remember, not talking a pro that does dozens of calipers a day, and the new calipers are rust free)

So we're $35 and 1+ hour into labor messing around with some old crusty calipers. When for just $19 more I could get the job done faster for a lot less hassle.

A PRO does what's best for the customer. In this case the replacement calipers are dirt cheap. A pro would be costing the customer more time and money by dicking around trying to rebuild some janky caliper.

Like I said, on some vehicles it makes sense. For an Explorer it doesn't.

Yeesh, no way I could ever, ever be bothered to fix a wheel cylinder. I think the most I've ever paid for a wheel cylinder for ANY car was like $9. Most of the stuff I work on, wheel cylinders are typically $5-7.

I guess working calipers is a hassle if you don't know what you are doing
If the caliper is bad, toss it, duh.
I rebuilt hundreds of wheel cylinder on the vehicle back in the day
it was quicker than dealing with stuck bolts
and not too many vehicles have drum brakes anymore

but by all means, support chinese child labor

 

[apollo11]

You are 100% correct. The saved labor time is why most shops will swap calipers instead of rebuilding, well that and you can't warranty the time to rebuild a caliper again I guess.

He is saying if he has to do his own then yes he saves $40 or whatever, but still is missing the point that some people value time at a certain dollar amount.

No, they do it for a higher profit margin

missing the point?
No.
Some people like working on things and saving money

 

[sberry]

There isn't 1 right way here. I do some of it to save money, some to save time, some is more indirect time, some procurement cost. I try not to throw good after bad. Try not to waste effort "saving" basket cases or something that had a good chance of a let down later. I am doing regular service though to some extent, sometimes it needs just to make it to the next regular , score parts in between etc.
I keep a parts box for current stuff, especially brakes. Clips, springs, had a pin I needed the other day, brake pads.

 

[4 Ever-Fish N]

It has always amazed me how some folks will expend a tremendous amount of effort to get others to do things "their way". They will reply over and over on a thread like this to defend their beliefs. I wonder if the OP still has his original question or if he has about 50 more now.

 

[Roberts210]

Where were the originals made? If in the U.S. I'd rebuild them. And I'm betting the $27 ones are cheap Chinese crapola. I bought some Chinese $9 rear wheel cylinders for my pickup when Made in U.S. wheel cylinders were $38. Installing one of the $9 ones it broke apart like a soda cracker. I took 'em back and got the $38 ones. I'll not put my life on the line with Chinese ****.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Where were the originals made? If in the U.S. I'd rebuild them. And I'm betting the $27 ones are cheap Chinese crapola. I bought some Chinese $9 rear wheel cylinders for my pickup when Made in U.S. wheel cylinders were $38. Installing one of the $9 ones it broke apart like a soda cracker. I took 'em back and got the $38 ones. I'll not put my life on the line with Chinese ****.

Hate to break it to you but it's a global economy and if you drive a car, there are Chinese parts in it.

 

[flushcut]

We're talking a 1997 Explorer not a rare or exotic classic car that you can't get parts for. Be safe & buy new calipers.

Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner! Amen brother.

 

[Mr_B]

I don't see any decent reman brands at 27bucks, likely 40bucks or over for decent remans.
Seals same, 10bucks a pair is low end, better seals 10bucks a caliper.

Reality either way can be right all depending on caliper, if slides good and corrosion minimal it worth quick clean up with new seals as only 10bucks a caliper plus bit of time and if DIY time not a concern for most.
If calipers poor overall condition going reman cheaper and easier, needing slide pin kit plus seals brings you up to almost decent reman cost .

Cheap parts and cheap remans need be avoided, poor service life, too many poor function issues and way too many major fault straight out the box, even better end reman has faults but the low end is total ballache and we avoid using it as much as possible ...

No right or wrong really, it all down to the caliper set serviceable condition and parts available and the only skill is decision on what route to go .

 

[sberry]

How would one tell if the reman is good or better?

 

[Mr_B]

experience of using brands available to you, others opinions and from visual inspection .

 

[Roberts210]

Hate to break it to you but it's a global economy and if you drive a car, there are Chinese parts in it.

Not true for me. My car, truck, tractor, riding mower, buzz saw and tiller are ALL proudly Made in the U.S.A. All are vintage and all rebuilt/restored by me. I won't put my life on the line with cheap Chinee ****.

 

[Speed-Racer]

The cheaper rebuild calipers probably have cheap seals and dust boots that won't last as long. If the original calipers are bad. Consider adding quality seals on the rebuilds or purchase new calipers. Brakes are one of those parts you want to have perfect.

 

[sberry]

Brakes are one of those parts you want to have perfect.

Lots of monkeys work in shops putting brakes on who dont have a clue what they are doing. If they needed to be perfect we would have aviation quality mechanics doing them and most cars wouldn't be allowed on the road.
As for good or better parts, so many are now sold in different avenues. I see a wheel bearing the other day, in the exact same box as one with a NAPA sticker slapped on it. Same part, same box, one 40$ and one 80. It might be sold elsewhere for even more.
In this case aint no one sorting, stocking, changing rubber to save 25 cents in materials when for 5 cents can put a sticker on and make 40$
I was in the back room of an auto value a while back, seen the box of stickers, saw the helper slap one on a muffler box. Went from generic to semi branded, they change the warranty and the price.
Having said that they do have more competitive lines, a lot is now coming in decorator boxes with some brand. A lot of the basic semi better stuff still comes white box so its easy to rebadge.
Tools somewhat the same way. I looked at occilating saws, Menards does have one which is 28$ and it is about like a 10$ grinder from HF, it is noticeably different, has a lower power motor on it, weighs half as much. Their Performax, house brand weighs the same as a DeWalt or Rigid, has the same motor rating, looks like the jacket came from the same mold or die, might have had a vinyl cord, don't recall but is a spitting image, cost 40 with case and blades, the yellow is 100 and bare.

 

[Showkey]

How would one tell if the reman is good or better?

The crappy ones leak during the bleeding process.

 

[sberry]

I went looking for an alternative to grinders, had one for backup and finally put oit in service and found it was as good or better than some more expensive ones. In an effort to make it cheaper they actually improved them. The thing sold in Walmart for 30 can be found in a Home type store for 70 with a different color jacket. Sometimes they don't give up patented or special features on the cheaper models and include those for 89 or 100$.
No one wants to track all the sub assembly parts, same brushes, same small bearings, same seals, same rubber and hoses etc. Not always exactly true on all models but way more than many think. Take welders, Hobart/Miller. Some variations and features between models but the cords and hoses come off the same spool. There were a couple that the only difference was the paint on the jacket and they even went down the same line till that point. They were sold in different stores, some at dealers. Lincoln did the same especially when they hit the box store market to start with, not familiar with them now to be accurate but at one time gave the variable voltage to the dealers with a real model number and sent the taps with special number to the boxstores.

 

[kythri]

I don't see any decent reman brands at 27bucks, likely 40bucks or over for decent remans.

Then you're obviously not all that familiar with reman brands.

Rock Auto, A-1 Cardone, $27.89 for the fronts, $24.79 for the rears (not counting any applicable core charges). NAPA (and several other parts stores) sells a lot of the A-1 Cardone remans, they work beautifully.

Centric (more good quality remans) are in the same price neighborhood - a couple bucks more, maybe.

 

[ChrisLS8]

For the home gamer it's far less time consuming to just but a reman. No regular Joe is completely rebuilding a caliper in 5 mins despite what Apollo says.

 

[Diesel Mercedes]

Why?
I did honed them for years w/o any comebacks.
You only need to replace them if they are really bad.

I like to start with the least aggressive method possible to get the job done.

 

[Mr_B]

Then you're obviously not all that familiar with reman brands.

Rock Auto, A-1 Cardone, $27.89 for the fronts, $24.79 for the rears (not counting any applicable core charges). NAPA (and several other parts stores) sells a lot of the A-1 Cardone remans, they work beautifully.

Centric (more good quality remans) are in the same price neighborhood - a couple bucks more, maybe.

I don't class cardone good. centric no better which pretty much brings me back to my main pov ... decent remans we use are around 40 bucks. I know my remans as dealing with them almost daily . If calipers simply serviceable get a good epdm seal kit and job jobbed .

 

[WittHay]

Where I live this thread would be irrelevant, because seal kits are not available for common cars and pickups. The commercial account price for a rebuild caliber with hardware exchange would be $50 and a new caliber, no core is about $100.

The prices are higher on a lot of rebuilt parts now, as they have changed to higher quality suppliers in the last few years

I think the Canadian prices are the same as Napa USA which are $37us and around $50us + $40 to 50us core charge. Can you actually buy a seal kit and piston and not just the outer boot from Napa?

 

[apollo11]

I guess if I lived in a rust-bucket state I'd have a different outlook.
Thankfully, I don't

 

[kythri]

Can you actually buy a seal kit and piston and not just the outer boot from Napa?

NAPA's "kit" contains two "boots" and two seals. It doesn't contain a piston.

I've yet to see a "kit" that contains the piston for this era of Explorers, as the pistons are metal, and as such, aren't typically considered a wear part like a phenolic piston would be.

NAPA does sell the pistons separate, but at the prices they want, along with the seal kit, we're back to the "it's as cheap or cheaper" to just buy the new caliper.

Rock Auto has Carlson pistons for ~$7.50, and Centric pistons for ~$8.50 (but they're out of Centric rear pistons).

 

[billford]

Electrolysis is the go, here is a set I did a while ago for my Landcruiser.



https://postimage.org/

Cheers Andrew

Thats impressive.

Would like to see pics of your electrolysis setup

 

[sberry]

I havnt bought a seal part in decades, it changes my outlook if I need parts. I am not so likely to service something I can get for 27, 24 if I got to toss in 10 more in materials. Same for cheap alternators, a couple bearings, brushes, regulator etc. it adds up.

 

[apollo11]

While I did rebuild a few alternators for customers, I usually swap those out.
If it's mine, I upgrade and rebuild it.

 

[apollo11]

For the home gamer it's far less time consuming to just but a reman. No regular Joe is completely rebuilding a caliper in 5 mins despite what Apollo says.

after you do one, you can
they are ridiculously simple

 

[ChrisLS8]

I take my OEMs down to get rebuilds rather than get the lifetime warranty junk

 

[Roberts210]

Electrolysis is amazing. Here is a picture of two wheel cylinders from a '53 Chevy parts car that sat down in my woods for 30+ years. The one on the right sat in the electrolysis tank for 2 days.

I also took emergency brake cables off that car.
Before:

Same cable afterwards:

My set up is very simple. I use a 6-amp 110VAC to 12VAC transformer that I bought online for less than $10. I also used a $4 rectifier to change 12VAC to 12VDC. Then I just wired it up in a box and used an old set of jumper cable ends for the clamps. Wiring diagrams can be found online. I also put a fuse inline so if the jumper cable ends touch it won't blow the transformer.

I use a plastic bucket and use automatic dishwashing powder as the electrolyte. The electrolyte is very important. It has to be Sodium Carbonate (Not Sodium BiCarbonate). A product called Washing Soda has it, and also automatic dishwashing detergent has it too.

 

[apollo11]

That is awesome!

 

[Roberts210]

It IS truly awesome what electrolysis can do. Right now I'm in the process of goosing up my system by adding another transformer and getting 12 amps output instead of 6 amps. The more amperage, the faster the thing works. One note of caution tho, when doing this you are also making Hydrogen and Oxygen from the water. Hydrogen will be explosive in small spaces, so be sure and do this operation where there is ample air flow to dissipate the H.

 

[AJ.]

Thats impressive.

Would like to see pics of your electrolysis setup

I don't have it set up currently and I don't have any pictures. There is not much to see anyway, just a rectangular plastic tub and some reo rod in each corner with some copper wire connecting them and then a 12v power supply.

There are a number of threads on the forum that will show you everything you need to know about electrolysis.

Cheers Andrew