Ryobi Lithium Batteries 2 for 1

[MrSnicks]

The Fayetteville, NC store had 4 sitting across from the customer service desk tonight... When I left they were down to 3.

 

[BTC]

I broke down and bought some. My local store had 3-4 sets left. It is basically a 2 for 1. The single P108's are 99 bucks.

 

[shephd]

How long are these things going to last? I aam probably the who,should keep the cord. Someone In another three predicted three years. What do I need to do to make them last?

Will the Milwaukee m18 last longer than ryobi

 

[928'er]

Here's an example of what the new 4.0 Ah batteries bring to the game:

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/18v-cordless-lithium-ion-impact-driver-round-up/5108

 

[pauls_workshop]

Here's an example of what the new 4.0 Ah batteries bring to the game:

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/18v-cordless-lithium-ion-impact-driver-round-up/5108

Not only did the little Ryobi 1/4" impact out screw all of them, it is also very light to hold for hours. It is so compact, I've used it instead of a special right angle drill to get in tight spaces. You can drill with it too (just not as good as a normal drill for that). I've used mine about 4 years now. Super little driver. I've had very very bad luck with Ryobi batteries and chargers over the years so I'm really hoping these 4 ah ones correct previous sins with lousy batteries that don't last long. But they do work well. - Paul

 

[shephd]

I'm curious about the life of these batteries, too. I would not be happy with only 2 years. Can you get the extended protection on these?

 

[928'er]

I'm curious about the life of these batteries, too. I would not be happy with only 2 years. Can you get the extended protection on these?

Warranty is 3 years (for whatever that's worth).

 

[928'er]

I've had very very bad luck with Ryobi batteries and chargers over the years so I'm really hoping these 4 ah ones correct previous sins with lousy batteries that don't last long.

Interesting... Not counting the 4.0Ah pair I just bought, I've got 6 Ryobi batteries - a pair of lithium P104s, a pair of half size lithium P103s, and the original P100 nicads that came in the first set I bought.

I'm just a DIY'er, but I've used these tools (and batteries) pretty hard. Guess I've been lucky 'cause I haven't had a bit of trouble with any of them.

The date code on the nicads is 2006 so they're 7 years old and still working fine (although they've been relegated to back-up duty since I got the lithium batteries).

 

[djjsr]

I'm not sure, but I think temperature makes a difference, at least with nicads. My garage is never heated and I have 2 nicads that are less than 3 years old and they will not hold a charge. The ones I have in my workshop, which is heated 24/7, are older and still work fine. I will not leave any of my newer li-ions in my freezing garage, so I don't know if the results would be the same.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Remember to check your charger. The yellow one on recall I found was not charging my lithiums or my nicads well. I tried some that would not take a charge or not hold much of a charge on a newer charger and suddenly one nicad fullsize and one lithium full size both fully and normally charged!!! First time in over 1 year on each sitting there in a box!!! And a couple other nicads closer to end of life I had that would only charge for about 5 minutes use on a drill (barely at all) now charged up to about 1/2 full power on it as well. Those are good for flashlights now vs good for nothing. So try some of yours on a more modern charger before you are sure they are dead! - Paul

 

[LandR]

Just checked the date codes on my NiCad's - 04. I've got good usage out of them... One did stop working after a few years and took it to batteriesplus for a fix but it never kept more than a half charge

Looking forward to less downtime with the new 4 pack I bought.

 

[tj90]

My local HD still had them. PIcked up a pack. I previously bought one and its night and day difference with the circular saw.

 

[pauls_workshop]

For anyone interested in everything there is to know about Ryobi batteries, repacking them, the different ones, or the chargers, start here:

http://toolboyworld.com/eBay/Ryobi_Tools.htm

Best resource on the net I've found on these. He also sells Ryobi stuff off ebay, and I'm buying another black P118 charger I like from him now. (slow charger seems to be best for the batteries). - Paul

 

[pauls_workshop]

Question for people: When your new batteries are charged up, what voltage do you measure across them?

I had my HF multimeter out and doing some things and checked mine and I get 7.2 V ! I checked some other full size normal lithium and get 20.4 V. Some full size nicad and get 19.6 V ! These seem to run fine but it is weird. They don't act like 7.2 V but like a powerfull full and normal charge. Using P118 newer black charger. Thoughts? If the HF meter is messed up, it should be consistent!

UPDATE: Checked the new lithium+ with another meter. I'm still getting about 8 volts on these max! Something is very wrong! Others? Please check yours and report. Do I have a bad batch? Anyone using the P118 charger too like me and get them to charge fully? thx- Paul

 

[pauls_workshop]

Also, just posted a new how to save old cordless tools thread here for your viewing pleasure! Give me your thoughts over there! - Paul

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229042

 

[pauls_workshop]

Folks, I have now positively confirmed that my two batteries are both bad. I'm getting about 8 volts when these are freshly charged with two different chargers. Double checked with two meters. Please check the voltage on your new batteries! Does anyone else have this problem? I gotta now return these and hopefully exchange for good ones. These are deceptive because with the higher 4 amp hour, even at 8 volts these pack a punch, but won't last very long as they will at full charge. Quality problem here! - Paul

 

[kythri]

What's the date-code on your batteries?

 

[sks]

Not only did the little Ryobi 1/4" impact out screw all of them, it is also very light to hold for hours. It is so compact, I've used it instead of a special right angle drill to get in tight spaces. You can drill with it too (just not as good as a normal drill for that). I've used mine about 4 years now. Super little driver. I've had very very bad luck with Ryobi batteries and chargers over the years so I'm really hoping these 4 ah ones correct previous sins with lousy batteries that don't last long. But they do work well. - Paul

Did you miss the part in his review where he said, "Ryobi was the only tool in the group working with a 4.0 Ah (amp-hour) battery."

Of course its going to outdo the other drivers. I'd like to see that driver up against the Milwaukee with a 4.0 battery.

 

[kythri]

Did you miss the part in his review where he said, "Ryobi was the only tool in the group working with a 4.0 Ah (amp-hour) battery."

Of course its going to outdo the other drivers. I'd like to see that driver up against the Milwaukee with a 4.0 battery.

Go threadcrap elsewhere.

 

[sks]

Go threadcrap elsewhere.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where I "threadcrapped."

 

[kythri]

This is a thread discussing Ryobi batteries. Not the place for you to slag off the brand in favor of Milwaukee.

Go start your own thread to do that.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Did you miss the part in his review where he said, "Ryobi was the only tool in the group working with a 4.0 Ah (amp-hour) battery."

Of course its going to outdo the other drivers. I'd like to see that driver up against the Milwaukee with a 4.0 battery.

Definitely a thread **** there! There are some that don't like the fact Ryobi won the recent video up above in the test and are taking that fact badly.

The 4.0 amp hour batteries are good ones but mine have turned out to be bad examples. I thought the power wasn't as good as should be and checked the voltages and found they won't charge over 8 volts. Doing some reading on this, I read that if stored too long they can go bad and then not recover. Maybe mine were around too long before they sold them. I'm bringing them back to Home Depot shortly. What is odd is the little charge indicator lights on the battery show full lights, but that doesn't mean much I guess. I learned they ship these at 40% power and if they go too long can go below minimum needed for a cell to charge properly. That might be what happened. Bad out of the box. I'm not sure where the date codes are on them. but there is a CS13341D440483 and a CS13341D440476 on them if that is it. Wondering if any others have had this problem or unique to mine. thx- Paul

 

[kythri]

I'm not sure where the date codes are on them. but there is a CS13341D440483 and a CS13341D440476 on them if that is it. Wondering if any others have had this problem or unique to mine. thx- Paul

That's them.

The 1334 indicates manufacture in Week 34 (August 19-25) of 2013.

So, only a few months old, and not some NOS or anything.

I bought some during the BF sale, and just unboxed them and threw them on the gang charger tonight.

I'll check them out in the AM and see what they test at.

Given that there may not be more two-packs of the batteries at the stores, I'd recommend pursuing warranty replacement through Ryobi rather than HD - I'd imagine HD's response, if they don't have more of the two-packs to be to simply refund your purchase, which isn't a satisfactory outcome for you.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Yeah, what I'm worried about is there may be many with the problem. Everyone who bought these should charge them and check the voltage with a multi meter across + and - to see what you get. You should get 20 v or slightly above or below it, but nothing like 7 or 8 ! Before I go back to HD I want to know if there are good ones out there or not to trade with. Here is a site I found with some info but not on the 4 amp hour specifically:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Cell+Re-balance+of+Ryobi+One++18V+Li-ion+Battery+(130501002)/13286

Good luck all but do post your voltages for us all ! - Paul

 

[kythri]

Paul, do me a favor:

Plug one of your batteries reading 8V into a tool like a drill or something, run it for 10-15 seconds, then unplug the battery and take a reading again.

I'm curious if there's some kind of anomaly with the circuit protection or something going on here when you're doing a no-load test.

I bought 6 of these batteries (3 2-packs) on BF. Mine are all date-coded 1336, so only a couple weeks newer than yours.

I also picked up a second gang charger this past weekend. I put the charger up on the wall last night, opened up the packs of batteries, and put them on the charger overnight.

Pulled them down, kept them paired from their original packages. Testing them, the first one showed 20.7, the rest showed 8.2V.

I went back and re-tested the first, and it was now showing 8.2V.

I grabbed my pair of P107 (Lithium+ Compact) batteries and tested them - first one was showing 19.3V (it's been off the charger/used for a week or so), the other showed 8.3V.

I then decided to run them on my drill for a few seconds - after doing so, each of them was showing 20.7V or 20.8V.

 

[sks]

You guys need to relax! Damn. Im sorry I offended your love for Ryobi. It wasn't on purpose. Are you aware that they are owned by the same company?

Also, let me point out that I never said anything bad about Ryobi or these batteries. For all I know, these could be the best batteries in the world!

 

[pauls_workshop]

sks, no worries. Milwaukee is good stuff too! We got bigger issues now with these battery problems we have and are a little uptight about it!

Kythri, I've used mine a bit since I got them and did these tests both fresh off the charger and after using them a bit, and for me, they never get above 8.2v. I will do some of the tests again as you request though just be certain I'm not missing anything. Bottom line: At the very least this is disheartening and very weird! At the most, a real mess! Back probably in a day or two to report.... - Paul

 

[kythri]

You'll want to test immediately after use. I notice that after having sat for a while, they go back to reading 8.2V.

I don't know exactly what's "feature" is causing this, but I'm thinking this may be intentional or at least expected. Googling around, 8.2V seems to be a common discharge cutoff voltage for Lithium Ion batteries. I don't know how that specifically pertains to reading a fully charged battery, but just throwing it out there.

As mentioned, I saw this same behavior on my P107 batteries. I'll test the P102's the next time I'm out in the shop and see what they do.

I would say, if your tools are operating on these batteries at "full power" then they're likely fine.

Remember that the mAh rating is the duration, and the V rating is the power. A true 8.2V wouldn't be that much juice for the tool, so I'm not thinking that's what's being delivered to yours.

 

[kythri]

So, my P102 batteries do NOT exhibit the same behavior - it seems contained to the Lithium+ batteries.

 

[beamrider]

Most of the cells used in these packs are 3.7vdc nominal/~4.2vdc max. A "2AH" is usually 5 cells (5 cells in series), and a "4AH" is usually 10 (2 sets of (5 cells in series) in parallel). They should be stored/shipped at around 3.7vdc per cell.

With that being said: A fully charged 18v pack should be ~21-21.1vdc, fresh off the charger, and 20.7-20.8vdc after burning off the float charge. If an individual cell drops below ~2.75vdc, it's probably shot. It will either never charge again, or never reach its full potential if it does charge. If you do get a bad cell, and still use the pack,the cell will quickly drop to zero volts. At that point, a freshly charged pack would read ~16.8vdc. 2 more bad cells will put you right about this "8.2vdc" mark....

 

[kythri]

I'm still of the mind that this reading is not indicative of any bad cells, but something else entirely (that I can't explain, because I don't know what the internal circuitry does, exactly).

Taking off the charger (charger in "sleep mode"), the battery pack read 8.2V.
Putting a load on it (brief tool use, I used my drill) and then testing shows 20.7V.
Letting the battery sit for a bit (in this case, a couple hours), the reading returns to 8.2V.
Use of the tool again, and the reading returns to 20.7V.

As mentioned, this also happens with my P107 compacts, and I've been using those for a few months with zero issues - the battery life is as expected.

From your explanation/maths (very much appreciated, btw), if there was a bad cell problem, then I would need to have 3 dead cells in the P107s, and 3 parallel pairs of dead cells in each of the P108s.

With 8 batteries of 2 different models exhibiting this behavior, that's too much of a coincidence. I'd expect to see varying voltages across all 8 batteries if we were dealing with bad cells, not the consistent voltage.

 

[mark5767]

After reading this I just put my new Ryobi 4Ah P108s on the multi meter and they look to be in the 20V range. Strangely, sometimes they read in the 8V range, other times 20V. So this is probably consistent with some of the behavior you guys are describing.

Seems if the battery was just used in the drill then it reads 20V so maybe it does go into sleep mode like was mentioned.

Anyway, I have used these a bit and they seem fine. I've had good luck with all my Ryobi LiIons so far over the past few years so hopefully the trend continues!

 

[pauls_workshop]

Ok folks, Merry Christmas. I just happen to still be up at midnight where I'm at as I post this!

So, did what new good and dear friend Kythri suggested and checked these again immediately after putting in the ryobi flashlight for 10 seconds. Suddenly I too do read around 20 volts or just above right after this. 8.2 volts before it. After sitting awhile, 8.2 volts again. So this is something in the new lithium plus packs only, not the older lithiums, where they hold the 19 or 20 volts regardless of just used in a tool or not. This tells me that these packs of mine should be just FINE and don't have a problem after all. This is some weird thing in the circuitry of the lithium plus packs as Kythri has suggested. Probably that protection circuit part of it. Why they do this I have no idea but doesn't seem to be an issue other than confusing anyone who tries to check the voltage across their batteries after a charge. I do feel much much better about this new knowledge now, but still would like to learn exactly why and what Ryobi is doing with this new circuitry, quite different than the earlier Lithium packs before lithium + versions. - Paul

 

[928'er]

I'm seeing similar results, so I think this is a anomaly in the testing procedure rather than a battery problem. The batteries are fine, we just don't understand how they work....

 

[91bronc300]

Here's an example of what the new 4.0 Ah batteries bring to the game:

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/18v-cordless-lithium-ion-impact-driver-round-up/5108

I just stumbled on this thread and thought this test was great. I have that exact Bosch impact and battery combination that was used in the test (25618 with the 2.6Ah BAT618 battery) and I love it. It's a great tool.

I thought I would do a little linear extrapolation and see how many screws each driver would drive if they were all using a 4Ah battery.

Bosch==========949
Dewalt------------900
Hitachi=========1044
Kobalt------------508
Makita=========1067
Metabo-----------512
Milwaukee=======887
Panasonic---------1011
Porter Cable=====538
Ridgid-------------643
Ryobi==========949

OR

1st. Makita
2nd. Hitachi
3rd. Panasonic
4th. Bosch\Ryobi
5th. Dewalt
6th. Milwaukee
7th. Ridgid
8th. Porter Cable
9th. Metabo
10th. Kobalt


BTW I just ordered a 2 pack of 4.0Ah Bosch FatPack batteries on Amazon the other day for $114 ($139 plus the $25 off $100 Bosch order promotion). That's a rockin' deal at $57 per battery.

EDIT: Merry Christmas!

 

[sks]

I just stumbled on this thread and thought this test was great. I have that exact Bosch impact and battery combination that was used in the test (25618 with the 2.6Ah BAT618 battery) and I love it. It's a great tool.

I thought I would do a little linear extrapolation and see how many screws each driver would drive if they were all using a 4Ah battery.

Bosch==========949
Dewalt------------900
Hitachi=========1044
Kobalt------------508
Makita=========1067
Metabo-----------512
Milwaukee=======887
Panasonic---------1011
Porter Cable=====538
Ridgid-------------643
Ryobi==========949

OR

1st. Makita
2nd. Hitachi
3rd. Panasonic
4th. Bosch\Ryobi
5th. Dewalt
6th. Milwaukee
7th. Ridgid
8th. Porter Cable
9th. Metabo
10th. Kobalt


BTW I just ordered a 2 pack of 4.0Ah Bosch FatPack batteries on Amazon the other day for $114 ($139 plus the $25 off $100 Bosch order promotion). That's a rockin' deal at $57 per battery.

EDIT: Merry Christmas!

Oh no, be careful! You just put Makita, Hitachi and Panasonic above Ryobi. That's a threadcrap! Merry Christmas!

 

[mark5767]

I have quite a few Ryobi 18V tools and I don't think they are necessarily "better" than the competition, I just think they offer a reasonably good balance of value, performance, selection and convenience.

They are usually priced pretty good, they perform pretty good, they offer a pretty good selection of tools and they are pretty convenient to deal with since we have a bunch of Home Depots around here.

So add all that up and it works out DIY purposes. I am not a fan of their 12V stuff, so I have some Milwaukee and Ridgid tools in that format.

I think of Ryobi as a discount brand, so it may be perceived as a little unfair to compare to pro level brands like Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita and DeWalt.

Even way back in the early days of cordless tools Makita was the good stuff and Ryobi was DIY.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Oh no, be careful! You just put Makita, Hitachi and Panasonic above Ryobi. That's a threadcrap! Merry Christmas!

Hey Pals, I'm not above taking your Bosch or Makita or Milwaukee and permanently converting it over to run exclusively on the Ryobi batteries and blow away what you used to have! Don't believe me! See my save orphaned tools thread below. I'll do it. Just keep pushing those buttons or trigger switches as the case may be on your drivers and see what happens next! - Paul

 

[djjsr]

Just took a new P108 out of the package. After charging it read 8 volts. After running a drill for 10 seconds it read 21 volts. After sitting for 5 minutes it went back to 8 volts. I'm using a P113 charger and a Fluke T5-1000 meter.

Weird.

I've got a couple of P104's. I'll check them when I get a chance.

 

[kythri]

Get that P113 RMA'd!

See here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223106

And here: http://www.ryobitools.com/safety_notice

As for the P104, I'm going to bet you won't see that same behavior - I don't see it on the P102, just the P107 and P108.