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Sandblasting question

Bmw4life

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I recently set up a sandblasting station and begun cleaning up some parts. It's my first time doing it and I have no previous experience.
I was blasting fine for a few days with this cabinet. I had 50 lbs of aluminum oxide in it.

1000056468.jpg
The gun I'm using is

Campbell Hausfeld AT122601AV​


I found that aluminum oxide had a hard time removing heavy rust and some paint, so I dumped in another 50pounds of steel shot abrasive.

1000056470.jpg

I think it worked kinda OK for a few minutes, but now the gun doesn't seem to want to pick the media and I'm trying to reposition the pick up tube constantly.

It's really bad and I cannot sandblast anymore, so I'm not sure if the nozzle wore out, or if it's a problem with the gun? I don't know how to tell.
I tried 90 psi and 125 psi and it doesn't seem to make any difference.
Any clue what my problem could be?
 
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finn

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The dirtier the abrasive is, the more often the nozzle clogs. Unplug it as described above.

you might invest in a sifting screen like the one Skat sells, or you could make your own with window screen. I find the commercially available screen works better than what I cobbled.

Harbor Freight sells ceramic nozzles.

Skat sells retrofit guns with either ceramic or carbide nozzles of various diameters to match your compressor capacity.. ceramic nozzles have a relatively short life,mcompared to carbide. The orifice diameter increases with time, increasing air compressor run time,mand reducing media velocity.

they plug with the scale and paint you blast off the workpieces. The heavier the scale, the sooner the media gets contaminated, and the sooner you have to sift or replace it.

I mostly use coal slagderived media, mostly because it’s cheap.
 

lmg

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If you look online, there are several kits available to improve the performance of this unit. I know an improved pickup tube is one of the most popular improvements.

Also several U tube videos on improvements.

Good luck.
 
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Bmw4life

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If I plug the nozzle, all that happens is the pick up tube separates, I.e. the metal piece tube separates from the rubber.
The is a picture of my setup to give an idea

1000056471.jpg

This is the compressor I'm using.
1000030587.jpg

When you guys mention mods and different guns, it would be great if you could include links or pictures.

I have a suspicion that the nozzle has maybe gotten too big, and that's why it's not spraying right.

I think I figured out the problem with the media not blasting. I took off the nozzle, and it had wetness in there, with aluminum oxide. I think what happens is that aluminum oxide blocks the pick up port, but just the part inside the gun.
Cleaned it out, and it started blowing, but really weak. I feel like there's not much pressure, and it stops blasting pretty soon. So I have to take the nozzle again and clean it.

I feel that maybe the time when it's blasting media but barely taking the rust off at all, it must be that the nozzle had widened too much?

What nozzle size/gun would you recommend?


The issue with the wetness, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, but is happened only since yesterday, and that's when I did 2 things.

1. I added this air filter, which I thought would help with water in the system.

NANPU 1/4" NPT Air Drying System - Double Air Filters (5 Micron Brass Element), Air Pressure Regulator Combo - Semi-Auto Drain, Poly Bowl w/Metal Gauge https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07Z5P82WC?tag=atomicindus04-20

1000056487.jpg

2. I added steel abrasive to aluminum oxide.


I have a feeling that this system might not be working properly, being a cheap Amazon product. So I'll just remove it all together.

I also think that maybe the tip wore out and is causing very weak pressure.

Now I need to figure out what gun and tip diameter I need. And whether I need any filter on my compressor or not.

This is what I have right now.
1000056492.jpg1000056493.jpg
 

lmg

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I see you are in Canada, and that you added filter to remove water. If that does not work to your satisfaction, here is a link to one like I bought for my sandblaster when I lived in Ohio, which is very humid in my opinion, but perhaps not as humid as Canada.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...p_RnJOGAxW_HjQIHaT6AXwQ9aACKAB6BAgFEBU&adurl=https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...p_RnJOGAxW_HjQIHaT6AXwQ9aACKAB6BAgFEBU&adurl=
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...p_RnJOGAxW_HjQIHaT6AXwQ9aACKAB6BAgFEBU&adurl=https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...p_RnJOGAxW_HjQIHaT6AXwQ9aACKAB6BAgFEBU&adurl=

Motorguard Toilet-Paper Filter M30 14in #01870E​


I bought a case of filters for the motorguard, but I am still using first one. Just take it out and let it dry. Be sure that you install it downstream of your pressure regulator.

In the old days, they used these for automobile oil filters and used toilet paper rolls for elements. (yes I am that old)

Here are my search results for "upgrades to harbor freight sand blast cabinet"

https://www.google.com/search?clien...ster+cabinet&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Good luck.
 
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Bmw4life

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Looks like a decent filter. I may order it.
M30 (1/4) is out of stock right now, so I wonder of I can use M60 instead (1/2) with just using 1/2 to 1/4 adapter?

For the gun, I looked up what skat has, and I have a feeling that I need small or medium version. They have the following:

Skat Blast® Small Trigger-Operated Power Gun
Item# S-35-SMPN# S-35-SUPC# 728044193235
Siphon gun requires 4-8 cfm, 3-5 HP air compressor.


Skat Blast® Medium Trigger-Operated Power Gun - Most Popular
Item# S-35-MMPN# S-35-MUPC# 728044193228
Siphon gun requires 10-15 cfm, 5-7 HP air compressor.

My cfm at 90 psi is 10, but my compressor is 3.2 hp.
So I'm not sure if I should get small or medium gun?

According to this graph, my gun nozzle should be 3.2mm, 1/8 inch

1000056494.jpg
If I'm looking at the nozzles, the one for the small gun,

Skat Blast® Small Ceramic Nozzle Combo
Item# 6300-50MPN# 6300-50UPC# 728044191583
13/64" I.D. Requires 4-8 cfm. Operating pressure 60-100 psi

13/64 is is 5 mm, so it's already too big according to the chart...

The nozzle for the medium gun is
Skat Blast® Medium Ceramic Nozzle Combo
Item# 6300-60MPN# 6300-60UPC# 728044191590
1/4" I.D. Requires 10-15 cfm. Operating pressure 60-100 psi

So I'm not sure if the graph is accurate or not, and what size gun/nozzle I should go with.
 

Steve_P

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Aluminum oxide is excellent at removing rust and is what I've been using for decades in a cabinet. Something is wrong if it's not working for you. I use the ceramic HF nozzles and they don't last that long- a few hours and they're a few MM larger in diameter and ready to change. I'm going to buy a carbide one when I run low on the ceramic; if you have a lot of blasting to do, it's a worthwhile investment. I cabinet blast at ~80 PSI and the HF nozzles I use are ~3.5 mm, maybe 3.8 when new.

Your water separator will work much better as far away from the compressor as you can get it to allow the air to cool and the water vapor to turn into liquid.
 

lmg

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Found the video on the upgrade that had impressed me, linking another one
 

GeoBruin

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Looks like a decent filter. I may order it.
M30 (1/4) is out of stock right now, so I wonder of I can use M60 instead (1/2) with just using 1/2 to 1/4 adapter?

For the gun, I looked up what skat has, and I have a feeling that I need small or medium version. They have the following:

Skat Blast® Small Trigger-Operated Power Gun
Item# S-35-SMPN# S-35-SUPC# 728044193235
Siphon gun requires 4-8 cfm, 3-5 HP air compressor.


Skat Blast® Medium Trigger-Operated Power Gun - Most Popular
Item# S-35-MMPN# S-35-MUPC# 728044193228
Siphon gun requires 10-15 cfm, 5-7 HP air compressor.

My cfm at 90 psi is 10, but my compressor is 3.2 hp.
So I'm not sure if I should get small or medium gun?

According to this graph, my gun nozzle should be 3.2mm, 1/8 inch

1000056494.jpg
If I'm looking at the nozzles, the one for the small gun,

Skat Blast® Small Ceramic Nozzle Combo
Item# 6300-50MPN# 6300-50UPC# 728044191583
13/64" I.D. Requires 4-8 cfm. Operating pressure 60-100 psi

13/64 is is 5 mm, so it's already too big according to the chart...

The nozzle for the medium gun is
Skat Blast® Medium Ceramic Nozzle Combo
Item# 6300-60MPN# 6300-60UPC# 728044191590
1/4" I.D. Requires 10-15 cfm. Operating pressure 60-100 psi

So I'm not sure if the graph is accurate or not, and what size gun/nozzle I should go with.
Your setup is at the high end of the small and the low end of the medium nozzle/jet combo. That said, I would recommend the medium kit. I have a friend with a 5 cfm compressor and the medium kit, and at typical pressures, he still gets a good bit of blasting in before he dips below the regulated pressure. You will get even longer, and depending on how long you stop to reposition (or rest your hand) you may never run out of air.

Also, if you decide you need the small you can just order a small size jet/tip kit and swap it in to your gun. The guns are all the same.
 

lmg

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Messages
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These guys have a nice upgrade kit, see what gun they are using:​

TACOMA COMPANY​

INNOVATIONS in SANDBLASTING
SINCE 1979
from home, scroll down to "upgrade kits"


Lots of discussion here on older GJ thread:
 
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Bmw4life

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Your setup is at the high end of the small and the low end of the medium nozzle/jet combo. That said, I would recommend the medium kit. I have a friend with a 5 cfm compressor and the medium kit, and at typical pressures, he still gets a good bit of blasting in before he dips below the regulated pressure. You will get even longer, and depending on how long you stop to reposition (or rest your hand) you may never run out of air.

Also, if you decide you need the small you can just order a small size jet/tip kit and swap it in to your gun. The guns are all the same.
Would you happen to have a link to these interchangeable jet tips? I can't seem to find them and I don't want to order something wrong.
All the charts seem to suggest 1/8 nozzle for 10 cfm, and since I'm already having issues, I'm trying to be extra cautious.
I've also emailed Campbell Hausfeld about replacement tips for the gun I have right now, but haven't heard back.
 

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Bmw4life

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Aluminum oxide is excellent at removing rust and is what I've been using for decades in a cabinet. Something is wrong if it's not working for you. I use the ceramic HF nozzles and they don't last that long- a few hours and they're a few MM larger in diameter and ready to change. I'm going to buy a carbide one when I run low on the ceramic; if you have a lot of blasting to do, it's a worthwhile investment. I cabinet blast at ~80 PSI and the HF nozzles I use are ~3.5 mm, maybe 3.8 when new.

Your water separator will work much better as far away from the compressor as you can get it to allow the air to cool and the water vapor to turn into liquid.
Would be be so kind as to share a picture of new and used nozzle? I can't seem to figure out how to know when to replace it.

Thanks for the tip on the water separator, looks like I got it hooked up all wrong!

What's the CFM of your compressor?
 

GeoBruin

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Your setup is at the high end of the small and the low end of the medium nozzle/jet combo. That said, I would recommend the medium kit. I have a friend with a 5 cfm compressor and the medium kit, and at typical pressures, he still gets a good bit of blasting in before he dips below the regulated pressure. You will get even longer, and depending on how long you stop to reposition (or rest your hand) you may never run out of air.

Also, if you decide you need the small you can just order a small size jet/tip kit and swap it in to your gun. The guns are all the same.
 

GeoBruin

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Messages
3,733

These guys have a nice upgrade kit, see what gun they are using:​

TACOMA COMPANY​

INNOVATIONS in SANDBLASTING
SINCE 1979
from home, scroll down to "upgrade kits"


Lots of discussion here on older GJ thread:
The tacoma kits are awesome, especially if you want to go foot operated. But they are much more expensive, even for the lowest tier kit. They start at $423 and go up to $554.
 
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isb cornbinder

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I bought a MODUBLAST model 24-48. It has been working for 10 years. I do not know the gun specifics. I will do some research tomorrow.
 

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Steve_P

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Would be be so kind as to share a picture of new and used nozzle? I can't seem to figure out how to know when to replace it.

Thanks for the tip on the water separator, looks like I got it hooked up all wrong!

What's the CFM of your compressor?

It looks like the nozzles I'm using are NLA at HF. I bought a bunch of them 10 years ago and haven't used many since. I started with a 10-11 CFM at 90 PSI compressor, like yours, and it was the bare minimum for my cabinet blasting. It'd run 90% of the time, but it was ok. I hung a box fan next to the pump to help cool it. When I tried to pressure pot blast with that compressor, that was a failure, even with a 3mm nozzle; that uses at least 50% more air. So now I have a 23 CFM at 175 PSI 7.5 (real) HP Quincy. It's loud AF but keeps up fine. If you are going to only do cabinet blasting, you can scrape by with your compressor if you get a better water separator setup. Mine is in copper tubing, runs down the garage wall for 20+ feet, and then back for 20+ feet with multiple dead leg drops along the way. I get ~zero water in my separators at the end, before the hose, it's all in the dead legs and I drain it out once in a while.
 

GarageHobbyist

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Definitely do a different pick up system and get rid of the tube that comes with it.

Moisture is your enemy, do what you can to keep your air dry.

Anything you blast off will ultimately end up in your media and make its way into your pick up and gun. It may seem counter intuitive, but get as much grease and oil off as you can before blasting your piece, as well as any decals or stickers.

Northern Tool sells crushed glass in 50lb bags for $15. I found I prefer this over the coal slag "sand".

The biggest thing: your expectations. Most box store compressors don't meet the recommended output for these cabinets, so things take longer than you think they should. You either need to work with what you have, or get a better compressor.
 
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Bmw4life

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Found the video on the upgrade that had impressed me, linking another one
Oh yeah I watched it before. But the only mod I see that could help is when he ran a hose to feed the gun from the bottom of the tank.
I'm not sure it's a good mod? I mean the pick up tube is easy to clean, if it even gets plugged. It's so short. But now imagine you're making the hose so much longer and the media has to travel so much more. Wouldn't it be more prone to getting plugged. Especially if moisture gets into the hose and hardens up.
 
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Bmw4life

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Blockage is in the metal tube
I sure sounds like it based on my description. I'll double check. I don't think the metal tube is plugged. Whenever I remove it to reposition, I can see the media falling out of it. I'll double check. I think my media is heavy, so when the tube is inside of it and I block the gun nozzle, there's nowhere for air to go, so it's normal that the rubber hose comes off the metal tube.
 

Firebrick43

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I worked on commercial shot blast machines. They had to parse the media thru a magnetic valve to keep things from plugging. To heavy and prone to lodging
 

JradM

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Blockage is in the metal tube
That's the obvious conclusion if the tube blows apart when you plug the nozzle.

OP, the compressed air is supposed to blow through the gun and **** up sand as it does. If you block the nozzle, the air should flow out the pickup tube instead (blowing the sand out of the way is easier than blowing through your hand). If it doesn't, don't bother trying different nozzles, pickup tube, upgrades kits, bigger compressors, etc. Your tube is plugged - unblock it.

Unrelated tip, I found a big improvement from hooking up a vacuum to my blaster. It ***** some of the small particles out so they don't plug up my exhaust filter or clog my pickup tube. Plus it's easier to see everything.

I just use the ~$15 water separator from Princess Auto in mine and it does a decent job keeping things dry.
 
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Bmw4life

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1000056505.jpg1000056503.jpg
1000056504.jpg

Got lucky and found some nozzles at princess auto, they seem to be the exact same ones. Not sure if these nozzles exist in other materials, but I don't care how long they last, at least I can replace them. They're cheap at $12 per pair.
Let's see if this fixes the problem.
 

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Bmw4life

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I worked on commercial shot blast machines. They had to parse the media thru a magnetic valve to keep things from plugging. To heavy and prone to lodging
Can you elaborate please?
What do you mean by lodging, and how does magnetic valve help? Where do you install it?
 

Firebrick43

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Its not something you install in a small home system. The silo holds all the shot and the naturally flows vertically. The mag valve sets in the bottom and a controller varies the magnetic field to control how much is allowed to fall thru. Left to natural flow it would just form a blockage the but magnetic field pulsating and reversing keeps that from happening

https://www.electronics-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/VLP-24_DS.pdf

When I first started they used a flexible rubber tube inside a steel tube with space. And air solenoid valve would be used to pulse the tube to keep things moving or stay on solid to shut off flow completely. As the magna valves came out they eliminated the problems with the pneumatic valve. Either one letting to much shot into the blow tube would end in a plug like your experiencing. In fact many of the older systems purposely used wheels to throw the shot to eliminate the plugging issues.
 
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Bmw4life

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That's the obvious conclusion if the tube blows apart when you plug the nozzle.

OP, the compressed air is supposed to blow through the gun and **** up sand as it does. If you block the nozzle, the air should flow out the pickup tube instead (blowing the sand out of the way is easier than blowing through your hand). If it doesn't, don't bother trying different nozzles, pickup tube, upgrades kits, bigger compressors, etc. Your tube is plugged - unblock it.

Unrelated tip, I found a big improvement from hooking up a vacuum to my blaster. It ***** some of the small particles out so they don't plug up my exhaust filter or clog my pickup tube. Plus it's easier to see everything.

I just use the ~$15 water separator from Princess Auto in mine and it does a decent job keeping things dry.
I'm going to check the tube. I feel like the tube blows apart because the air cannot blow through aluminum oxide and steel shots because that media is too heavy. It's weird, I've been blasting for many times without any issues. And right when I installed the water separator I linked from Amazon, and added steel shot media, I'm having this problem. I don't see how either of those can be causing the tube to start getting plugged. But something is off.

I also have a vacuum plugged to the exhaust port and I agree it's a great upgrade!

Do you happen to have a link to the princess auto water separator you're using?
 

ZRX61

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If that cabinet has a vent to atmosphere (separate to the hole for the vacuum & usually on the back), stick a piece of foam in it. That prevents dust coming out the vent & coating everything within 50ft of the cabinet, but still allows it to function as a vent.
 
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Bmw4life

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It has 2 plugs that I removed. The large plug for the air intake on the back, and smaller diameter plug on the side, for exhaust. With the vacuum connected to exhaust and running, there's absolutely nothing coming out of the rear opening.


I've tested the pick up tube. It definitely gets plugged for some reason! Maybe because of the steel shots.
I remove it from the media, plug the gun nozzle, blast it out, and it works again for a bit before it gets plugged. I'm not sure if there's a solution to this. Seems like steel shot beads are causing it to plug for some reason.
 
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Bmw4life

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Its not something you install in a small home system. The silo holds all the shot and the naturally flows vertically. The mag valve sets in the bottom and a controller varies the magnetic field to control how much is allowed to fall thru. Left to natural flow it would just form a blockage the but magnetic field pulsating and reversing keeps that from happening

https://www.electronics-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/VLP-24_DS.pdf

When I first started they used a flexible rubber tube inside a steel tube with space. And air solenoid valve would be used to pulse the tube to keep things moving or stay on solid to shut off flow completely. As the magna valves came out they eliminated the problems with the pneumatic valve. Either one letting to much shot into the blow tube would end in a plug like your experiencing. In fact many of the older systems purposely used wheels to throw the shot to eliminate the plugging issues.
I think you're actually right. I tried blasting, and it blasts really well with the new nozzle. However every few seconds, it does plug up the pick up tube.
You see, they sell steel shots for sandblasting, so I thought it's fine. The product had no warning that it will be plugging the pick up tube and needs a special system...Turns out I created myself more headaches lol.
Now I have $100 of aluminum oxide and $100 of steel shots sitting in my cabinet. I thought by combining them I would make my job easier, and instead I made it way worse lol!
I watched this video a while ago, and that's what made me want to use steel shots. So clean, no dust, and better at removing rust etc!


Somehow it seems to work just fine in this system, but not mine hehe
 

Firebrick43

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I think you're actually right. I tried blasting, and it blasts really well with the new nozzle. However every few seconds, it does plug up the pick up tube.
You see, they sell steel shots for sandblasting, so I thought it's fine. The product had no warning that it will be plugging the pick up tube and needs a special system...Turns out I created myself more headaches lol.
Now I have $100 of aluminum oxide and $100 of steel shots sitting in my cabinet. I thought by combining them I would make my job easier, and instead I made it way worse lol!
I watched this video a while ago, and that's what made me want to use steel shots. So clean, no dust, and better at removing rust etc!


Somehow it seems to work just fine in this system, but not mine hehe
You may get away with a shaker on the cabinet. I would not guarantee that however, there are electric and air ones. I would suggest electric as your air compressor is on the small side already.

https://www.tptools.com/Skat-Blast-Super-Pro-Abrasive-Shaker-Kit,9375.html.

They are used on large 4' long cabinets to get the media to come back to the tube in the center. I probably would not suggest it however.
 
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JradM

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I'm going to check the tube. I feel like the tube blows apart because the air cannot blow through aluminum oxide and steel shots because that media is too heavy. It's weird, I've been blasting for many times without any issues. And right when I installed the water separator I linked from Amazon, and added steel shot media, I'm having this problem. I don't see how either of those can be causing the tube to start getting plugged. But something is off.

I also have a vacuum plugged to the exhaust port and I agree it's a great upgrade!

Do you happen to have a link to the princess auto water separator you're using?
I do, it's this one. Cheaper than I remembered. Its nothing fancy and I'm not suggesting it's the best one, but it works. I mounted it to the side of my sandblaster and occasionally push the button to drain out the water it collects.

I didn't see your post just above mine when I responded before, but I'm now wondering if the combination of those two media types might be plugging things up.

E.g. like how a gravel road is built with larger rocks, smaller rocks and then small particles because the finer pieces fill the gaps to make the road stable. Maybe your steel shot is heavier and larger and the aluminum oxide is sucked into the gaps and brings things to a halt.
 
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Bmw4life

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Yes now that I zeroed in on the tube plugging, it's definitely happening.
For now I'll remount the water filter I have away from the compressor and closer to the cabinet. Maybe will eventually upgrade to M30 unit, seems pretty high quality.

Buy first need to figure out how to solve this plugging problem.
 
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Bmw4life

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You may get away with a shaker on the cabinet. I would not guarantee that however, there are electric and air ones. I would suggest electric as your air compressor is on the small side already.

https://www.tptools.com/Skat-Blast-Super-Pro-Abrasive-Shaker-Kit,9375.html.

They are used on large 4' long cabinets to get the media to come back to the tube in the center. I probably would not suggest it however.
Yes based on the reviews it's great when the media starts piling up on the sides, so it vibrates and shakes it back down.
Based on the reviews it works specifically with skat based cabinets.
Seems like a great product but probably not for my case :)
Should've never mixed aluminum oxide with steel shots I guess!
 
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Bmw4life

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I wonder if a better pick up tube would help. Someone did a diy upgrade to make one

Anyone tried one of these?


Not sure if I should go with 1/4 or 1/2.
 
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