Saylor Beall Experts NEEDED

[AJ1978]

Title says it all. Need some help on a VT 735 80 with 705 pump. I have been in contact with factory and dealer. I need some more insight and help with symptoms.

Came in Tuesday with compressor running tank was at 60 PSI and not pumping up. Checked all the obvious. Called my distributor, he told me that he felt it was valves. This unit was placed in service 6-29-15 so 18 months of mild use.

I talked with saylor beall and the dealer and they thought perhaps an intake valve was bad.. so sent me a full valve kit and the tool over night at $$$ so installed them, all 5.. same symptoms, put a gauge on the intercooler not making over 10 PSI.

Saylor beall is sending me a head, but I fear this issue is deeper, I notice oil on the bolts holding the intercooler to head, as well as rust, top of HP piston is rusty.

I fear rings are out of it when it runs the head gets warm and it puts air out but I can stop it with my finger.. well the air flow that is

 

[AJ1978]

I am still down on air, been a real BI&%$ this week at the shop, have my old Kellogg 331 but as it hits 120 psi there is a rod knock I think, do don't run it much. Close to having to buy another machine to get us by until this is resolved. Champion here I come...

 

[WhiffySpark]

We have 2 champion advantages that run all day. The company used saylor forever, not sure why they changed

 

[MacMcMacmac]

The head gasket between the cylinders may be blown.

 

[md21722]

The head gasket between the cylinders may be blown.

That's what I am thinking too, if valves did not fix the problem. Bad rings could be another cause, but for it to happen all of a sudden it would likely need to have been a ring that broke rather than wear.

 

[AJ1978]

I don't want to sound dumb! But did not appear gaskets were blown between cylinders! Also what signs would show broken ring(s)? I am not an idiot but with something of my own I second guess.
There is no hatch left in the low side and again it's only 1.5 years old

 

[md21722]

No crosshatching? Smooth cylinder wall and oil creeping past? Sounds it was ran hard and put away wet before you got it or was defective from the get go. I have seen good & bad compressors. Good ones will have crosshatching even after 50-60 years! They usually have clean oil in them when you get them because they were maintained their whole life or enough of it anyway! Sounds like Saylor Beall will help take care of you because this is very odd. They are the Cadillac of air compressors and have excellent customer support. If you run into any snags I suggest you get some parts from Mike Henegar at Pacific Air Compressors in Portland, Ore. and pick his brain while ordering... it shouldn't be much work to hone the bores and install new rings...

 

[AJ1978]

This unit was bought BRAND new in June of 2015 by ME. Factory fill for first month then routine 3 month changes (way overkill) with Rarus 427. High side has crosshatching visible, but low side after pulling head shows what I would call scores starting all around cylinder not deep but vertical marks. There was a coat of oil on top of piston, and light glaze on head. On the high side appears the intercooler leading from low to high has oil residue.

 

[AJ1978]

This is hatching visible but seems like it's "scuffing"
Here are some photos, sorry not the best. I will try and answer questions.

 

[md21722]

I misunderstood your earlier post as to its origin. I had thought you got this from somewhere & it was partially used... Whoops.

More vertical lines than crosshatching in picture #2 ! How are the rod bearings?

Sounds like SB should send out someone to fix this or send you enough parts to fix it yourself. I would be concerned about the vertical score marks. I have seen 60 year old Champion pumps that were still perfectly crosshatched. I have also seen 30 year old pumps with worn rings that were dumping oil in the air filter... I suspect in the latter it was a case of neglect/failure to change the oil as it was a quart low & black when I got it...

I use Rarus 427 in my Champion R15's. It's fantastic compressor oil.

 

[AJ1978]

The more I think on this I keep hoping the head they are sending will fix it but with the cylinders scored it keeps telling me bottom end issue! Like I said I came in with no air!

I hope they do something I have ALOT of capital ******* in this unit I bought factory after cooler kit plus then had to put out over 400 the other day for valves and the valve retainer removal spanner socket!

I thought these were top end machines but right now it's irritating seeing this out of service money pit

 

[md21722]

The more I think on this I keep hoping the head they are sending will fix it but with the cylinders scored it keeps telling me bottom end issue! Like I said I came in with no air!

I hope they do something I have ALOT of capital ******* in this unit I bought factory after cooler kit plus then had to put out over 400 the other day for valves and the valve retainer removal spanner socket!

I thought these were top end machines but right now it's irritating seeing this out of service money pit

I would talk to them nicely, sounds like they need to send you a whole new pump... I also misunderstood your post as I thought they sent you those valves for free!! Since I depend on air, I have two Champion R15 based compressors. At the time I didn't want to move a single 900 pound compressor and figured having two would give some extra reliability in case one was out service for whatever reason. I think the key here is that it was well maintained & not used commercially? So how could you have possibly worn out the pump in 18 months? I think the 705 and R15 are both good pumps, I went with the R15 for my own use because I got a better price on them, they spin slower, are quieter, & they don't require special tools to service the valves.. only a 9/16" wrench. I'd say you are on the fringe as to having problems with a SB 705 because generally all you hear is people getting them after 30-40 years and they're still pumping strong... I would be pissed but its important to keep your temper...

 

[AJ1978]

Agree on all! This unit is used in a 2 bay shop I have not beat not in dust etc! I bet it does not run 2 total hours a day! I have a 331 Kellogg that was mainstay but have a bad bearing starting! That being said I hope to have the new cylinder head and valves complete from SB next week they are sending those at no charge but they want old head! I hope this solves it but I am skeptical!
I am pissed but have maintained my cool so far!
I am most likely Monday buying a Gardner Denver ( champion) unit reed valve style (can't remember pump model) I have to have reliable air! The saylor beall is 80 gallon I also have a 120 gallon tank plumbed in the system as well! That 120 tank has the 331 on it but I can only build to 125 before I get a slight metal clank noise! Need the air for waste oil heat this time of year

The unit was probably over maintained
Oil changes every 3 months
Factory after cooler

I wanted a saylor beall for 8 years and finally got one! The guys there have been great and are stumped as well!

 

[Motomadness]

Dang, Im considering a new Saylor Beall myself and this does make one have doubts. For what its worth I have an old Champion R15 pump that Im rebuilding and I also have some vertical lines in my freshly honed cylinder with new rings. Not sure what it is as it obviously has fresh oil and yet Im struggling to get the rings to seat completely. Im getting a tiny bit of oil after letting it run for about 30 min, is it normal to have a tiny bit of oil in the cylinder or should it be completely dry like a combustion engine? Keep us posted on this, thanks.

 

[Schurkey]

Vertical lines on the cylinder, yet low hours? I'd be looking for a poor seal somewhere on the air cleaner assembly. Pump might be ingesting dirt.

 

[Carla]

Some years ago I had occasion to pull down a S-B 705 which wasn't pumping much air......turned out to have broken ring grooves and broken rings on the LP side.....the LP bore was scored, and had to be bored/sleeved back to standard.

After sleeving, replacing the LP piston and rings (and the HP rings, and rod bearings, since it had to be apart anyway......wristpins and bushings were unworn). that one was running well two years later that i know of....then its owner moved out of the area, but I'd imagine that if it had any further problems, I'd have been told.

cheers

Carla

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 for manufacturer to make this right on their nickel.

Top quality compressor like that Saylor Beall should not fail at 18 months.

 

[AJ1978]

I am still waiting to see when this head arrives, I am hoping Monday or Tuesday. The problem is my air situation is important.

I have the factory Air cleaner, changed 2x even know the unit operates in its own area away from dust and debris. I am keeping my fingers crossed as its the head. But my gut is telling me the Pump itself is bad. I am not slamming Saylor Beall at this point, never seen negative on them, on any boards. This is just super frustrating.

Being charged for the valves that didn't help sure hurts the weeks profit.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Well, since they are having so much trouble diagnosing it, tell them you want a refund on the valves.

I agree they should make this right, but rather than dink around one part at a time they should send out a local service tech and get it up and running. You have a business to run and the downtime is unacceptable.

If you bought it on your AMEX you would get an extra year warranty (for items up to $10k). Reasons like this is why I buy everything on my CC when I can if they don't offer a cash discount.

 

[AJ1978]

I have been working with SB, but did not get the head off until yesterday late. I am going to send them photo's of the cylinder. I am not certain they have service in the area, the closest dealer where I bought this is 100 miles away. Figured service is not a huge thing on a Top end machine, but I am wrong obviously

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Did you by chance check for blow-by before you disassembled the top-end?

If the issue is with the L.P. rings/ bore, you would have noticed excessive blow-by. I would certainly pull the cylinders off and verify if you have broken rings / lands before assembling, save yourself from doing it twice.

 

[AJ1978]

There was air obviously blowing out of the oil fill, from I would say piston movement but it did not seem to blow oil out of the port.

 

[AJ1978]

Update to all: New head received from Saylor Beall (No charge, Just want to return old) Started making air to 100 PSI Then stopped. Heard a noise and found a hole in the Belt Guard Mounted After Cooler. Jeff at Saylor Beall is Great and they are taking care of this for me. Looks like a fluke or "JUST MY LUCK" Figured I would update everyone on the final outcome....

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

...and here I thought things like that only happen to ME! Apparently, Mr. Murphy works on your stuff too.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Good to hear! Sometimes chasing those gremlins can be frustrating.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Schurkey]

Photos?

 

[AJ1978]

Will get some photos when I get it pulled off the unit! Had to borrow my compressor from the house thank god I always buy heavy duty!

I must say Saylor Beall has been top notch at working with me! They have given me no static at all and have worked to solve this even out of warranty

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Hey AJ, any luck figuring out this issue? I'm very interested to hear what you find.

 

[larry_g]

Hey AJ, any luck figuring out this issue? I'm very interested to hear what you find.

Post #23..

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Post #23..

I had read that one, but I didn't think that was his main issue, just thought that was a new problem and that he would've heard the leak in the beginning?

 

[AJ1978]

The leak I would have thought I would have heard as well. The fan that is attached to the motor for the aftercooler is pretty stout, displaces a lot of air.

Long story short, something caused the aftercooler to fail. The blow out was enough that there was no back pressure.

Bypassed aftercooler, and unit worked fine. Saylor Beall sent me a new one, trying to put in this evening.