Saylor-Beall Rebuild

[9GUY9]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I took a valve to work the other day and mentioned to a co worker how I planned to make a tool for it.

With a old socket, a gas powered stick welder on our service truck, and 2 sections of 5/16th bolts this is what he came up with. Like I said I used a hammer and punch to remove all my valves and have yet to reassemble, but I think this will work pretty well. It will also allow me to use a torque wrench.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I took a valve to work the other day and mentioned to a co worker how I planned to make a tool for it.

With a old socket, a gas powered stick welder on our service truck, and 2 sections of 5/16th bolts this is what he came up with. Like I said I used a hammer and punch to remove all my valves and have yet to reassemble, but I think this will work pretty well. It will also allow me to use a torque wrench.

I used 5/16 also. But I had to use the thread portion of the bolt which did not work good. It would bite into the holes and made it look very ugly. I like what you made, it looks great to me! Since I can't weld I will need to hire some help.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Just a thought....I would think that there is a specialty tool that is made for those valves.You could contact S-B directly and see if they have it for sale or have a source.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Just a thought....I would think that there is a specialty tool that is made for those valves.You could contact S-B directly and see if they have it for sale or have a source.

Saylor Beall does have a tool but I can never see a picture of the other end. I don't know what it attaches to. It looks like it is used by hand but I am not sure. The official tool is $80 to $140 online, so I hope I can get it made cheaper.

 

[Zrexxer]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I took a valve to work the other day and mentioned to a co worker how I planned to make a tool for it.

With a old socket, a gas powered stick welder on our service truck, and 2 sections of 5/16th bolts this is what he came up with.

Yeah, but you're supposed to cut up old Taiwanese sockets to do stuff like this with, not your good Snap On!

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Yeah, but you're supposed to cut up old Taiwanese sockets to do stuff like this with, not your good Snap On!

I noticed that as well. It is now a high class tool!

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I went to a machine shop this morning. They are going to whip something up for me to remove the valves. It should be ready tomorrow.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I got the tool back from the machine shop. It looks great! I will try it tomorrow and post some pictures.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

These guys did a good job. They will make more for anyone who wants one. I gave them my measurements on a rough piece of paper and they gave me a perfectly working tool.

 

[Zrexxer]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

These guys did a good job. They will make more for anyone who wants one. I gave them my measurements on a rough piece of paper and they gave me a perfectly working tool.

And they even converted your strange metric gibberish into actual dimensions! J/K!

But what everyone wants to know is, DID IT WORK?

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

And they even converted your strange metric gibberish into actual dimensions! J/K!

But what everyone wants to know is, DID IT WORK?

Yes, that was the first thing he did. He got his calculator out and converted everything right away. I work on Japanese machines so I like to use metric more.

It worked great! It took a lot more PB Blaster but I got two free so far. I need to build up more strength and soaking to start on the rest of the valves but two are loose. I was really nervous when it came to the valve with the metal cover on it because I never looked at it. Good thing the tool they made for me was not too big because it fit down inside the opening perfectly. It makes good contact with the valve cover in the recess.

 

[jonathan75]

Cylinder Head won't come off!

This pump has challenges at every step of the rebuild. I had a lot of trouble to get the pump pulley off. In the end I gave up trying to do it without a gear puller and picked one up for $40 from Sears. It took the pulley off like butter.

Now the new challenge is the cylinder head. I have all the bolts out and it won't budge. I even attached my engine lift to it and the wheels of the compressor is off the ground and it still won't come off. That is 800 pounds of weight being lifted by a stuck gasket! I tried a hammer, PB Blaster and a crowbar with no give at all. I found a better place to attach the engine lift but I need to find a lifting eye bolt that is 7/16 tomorrow. Now the engine lift is pulling up on the air intake and I will leave it like that overnight. If I am lucky I will find it dangling in the air in the morning.

Does anyone know something more I can try to get the cylinder head off?

 

[metal4130]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I know you said you used a hammer but I would try that approach again. I would use a section of 4X4 or 2X4 and whack on that with a big sledge. That way you can get real big swings but not damage the head. I would start swinging on that intake air pipe. Whack parallel to the stroke of the pistons. Put a few bolts back into the head so it doesn't fly off.

 

[9GUY9]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I had to use a cold chisle between the head and cyl to get mine seperated.

When you do get them apart be prepared to invest some serious time scraping the rock hard gaskets off.

 

[y'sguy]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Congrats so far on all your great progress and perseverance.
My question is why do you need this capacity of air compressor? at whatever cost savings? pardon me if it has been mention somewhere before.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I know you said you used a hammer but I would try that approach again. I would use a section of 4X4 or 2X4 and whack on that with a big sledge. That way you can get real big swings but not damage the head. I would start swinging on that intake air pipe. Whack parallel to the stroke of the pistons. Put a few bolts back into the head so it doesn't fly off.

Thank you for the tips. I finally got it off when I got back from a day with the family. It was lifted off the ground all day by the gasket and then I just kept beating at it in a similar manner as you suggested. Suddenly it broke loose and it was dangling in the air by the engine lift. That was a great feeling when it came free.

I had to use a cold chisle between the head and cyl to get mine seperated.

When you do get them apart be prepared to invest some serious time scraping the rock hard gaskets off.

I was worried about using a chisel because I didn't want to do any damage to the head or the mating surface. But you are right those gaskets are a mess!

Congrats so far on all your great progress and perseverance.
My question is why do you need this capacity of air compressor? at whatever cost savings? pardon me if it has been mention somewhere before.

I really don't need a air compressor of this capacity. But the overkill is delicious.

Pictures in next post.

 

[oilslick]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Congrats so far on all your great progress and perseverance.
My question is why do you need this capacity of air compressor? at whatever cost savings? pardon me if it has been mention somewhere before.

Y ask y? Sounds like a question posed in similar fashion by significant other. If that y name is for 312,s and other y blocks I bet I could ask you some tough questions about y a y block. Does this make sense?

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

I had to spend some time with the family yesterday but I was able to work on it for a hour in the morning and four hours at night. So I managed to get the head off, one rod cap off, put the cylinder head back on and removed all the bolts for the left cylinder.

I called around but could not find a 7/16 eye bolt to attach to the head so I am still using a lifting belt wrapped around the intake pipe. After a lot more beating the head came free.

The rod cap was a pain because it is a hex key. And it is hard to get enough torque in a tight spot with a allen wrench. I looked in my tool bag and I only had socketed hex heads in metric so I practically pulled a muscle getting those two bolts loose. I think it was 5/16 hex key.

So since the High Pressure rod is free I can remove the cylinder now. The LP rod is broke so it was not connected to the crankshaft. I put the cylinder head back on so I have something to lift from and removed all the bolts and put a couple back loose. When it breaks free I don't want it to fly away too fast because I have a one good rod and piston in there I don't want to break.

My goal today is break free the left cylinder and start working on removing the right cylinder head.

 

[Zrexxer]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

If I may make a suggestion borne from the experience of my own bone-headed mistakes -

Take all that copper tubing off and put it someplace safe. Sooner or later you're bound to wreck that stuff doing all that disassembly and then that's one more thing you'll have to fix.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

If I may make a suggestion borne from the experience of my own bone-headed mistakes -

Take all that copper tubing off and put it someplace safe. Sooner or later you're bound to wreck that stuff doing all that disassembly and then that's one more thing you'll have to fix.

Actually I am not sure if I am too late already or not. It was dinged up when I got it but in the process of lifting it the lifting straps crushed the belt cover into it even more. And it was in my way yesterday but it was too late to bother my neighbor to use one of his large open end wrenches. I really hate to use adjustable wrenches on things I don't want to ding up.

The tubing is soft so it might be okay with a few dings but I will work on getting it off today. I would rather clean it up and use it again because I don't know how I would get those nice bends like they did at the factory.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

After day two of beating on the cylinder it won't come off. My hand and body is too sore to continue any more tonight. For almost 24 hours the weight of the air compressor is pulling on just the cylinder gasket. The whole air compressor is lifted off the ground by the cylinder gasket.

I tried heat, hammer, PB Blaster and weight. Now I am trying something new. In the garage now is a hand held massager vibrating on the air compressor. My hope is the vibrations might help loosen it up over time. I really hope it will break loose soon.

 

[kams1973]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

You need a bigger hammer and a helper.

 

[sberry]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

Ok,,, now is the time to ask,,,,

Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

 

[ford33]

Your torch looks small. Do you have a larger torch?
How about trying to insert a metal paint scraper blade between the head and block? Use it as a wedge to separate the two pieces.

Creative idea to use the massager.

 

[metal4130]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

You need a bigger hammer and a helper.

Agreed. That heat will not help and the vibrations are not strong enough. Duct tape a short 2X4 to the side of the head and start taking whacks at it. You need a 5 or 10 lb sledge hammer. Bolt that head back on and take all the bolts out of the cylinder.

Take that upper exhaust manifold off first to give you more room.

 

[jonathan75]

You need a bigger hammer and a helper.

I got my 8 pound sledge but couldn't get help.

Your torch looks small. Do you have a larger torch?
How about trying to insert a metal paint scraper blade between the head and block? Use it as a wedge to separate the two pieces.

Creative idea to use the massager.

I wanted to use something as a wedge but I worried about messing up the surface. But I did use a larger torch since I needed one for a work project this week anyway.

Agreed. That heat will not help and the vibrations are not strong enough. Duct tape a short 2X4 to the side of the head and start taking whacks at it. You need a 5 or 10 lb sledge hammer. Bolt that head back on and take all the bolts out of the cylinder.

Take that upper exhaust manifold off first to give you more room.

Thank you very much. I taped a 2x4 and a 4x4 to the pump and hammered away with a 8 lb sledge hammer. You said 5 or 10 lbs so I meet you in the middle.

I took the upper exhaust off as well and it did help since I didn't have to worry about hitting it. Now both side are off. I will update with some pictures and more details later but for now here is a short video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QE2ZlfPPYbA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Todd.Brock]

I admire the persistence. I too have these same sorts of WTH do I now when you see an 800lb machine hanging buy a head gasket! How much was the tool from the machine shop if you don't mind me asking?

I have to say, vibrating the compressor with a ehem.."personal massager" is a new one... Thanks for the chuckle!! ( I'm not laughing at you, just thinking of my own makeshift , late night, improvising!!)

 

[jonathan75]

I admire the persistence. I too have these same sorts of WTH do I now when you see an 800lb machine hanging buy a head gasket! How much was the tool from the machine shop if you don't mind me asking?

I have to say, vibrating the compressor with a ehem.."personal massager" is a new one... Thanks for the chuckle!! ( I'm not laughing at you, just thinking of my own makeshift , late night, improvising!!)

Thank you, I refuse to let this one beat me. The tool from the machine shop was only $30!

The vibrations I think could help but would need to be stronger for a faster effect. But as tired as I was I wanted to put something else to work so I could take a break. In the end I needed more heat and a bigger hammer. The small dead blow was not cutting it.

 

[jonathan75]

Photo 1: Pieced together the shattered rod. It looks like the metal is defective. I found a lot of small holes in the rod, some were even on hidden parts of the rod with no wear. Just random small holes that looked like pockets when the metal was formed. It would be great if Saylor Beall would give me new ones.

Photo 2: A cocoon will turn into a beautiful butterfly. I ran out of duct tape so I used some wrap I had.

Photo 3: Thank you for the sledge hammer tip!

Photo 4: YES!

Photo 5: ****..... It looks and feels very bad. I think I will need a new crankshaft. This is the only part that is bad but after smoothing out the tolerance would be too large.

Photo 6: LP piston rod snaped.

 

[jonathan75]

Photo 1: This cylinder does not look too bad. Just some fine scratches.

Photo 2: But this side is the one that worries me the most. The rod ran up and down the cylinder wall for a while.

Photo 3: The other side of the rod was rubbing on something also.

Photo 4: You can see the bad part of the crankshaft on the left and the good part on the right. I wish there was a way I could fix this. Have to replace the whole crankshaft because of one bad spot.

Photo 5: Great tip for duct tape to hold the wood. I got the head off in record time!

Photo 6: I added another piece of wood to the other side to hit from all directions.

Here is a video of the rod rubbing on the cylinder wall.

 

[930dreamer]

Find the "crankshaft specs" and see if it can be turned by a machine shop.

 

[jonathan75]

Find the "crankshaft specs" and see if it can be turned by a machine shop.

The Crankshaft Rod Journal Diameter is 1.5630/1.5620. Saylor-Beall does not offer over-sized bearings so don't think it will be in spec after smoothing out. The groves are deep.

 

[jonathan75]

Find the "crankshaft specs" and see if it can be turned by a machine shop.

Do you know how big of a deal is it if I run that one part of the crankshaft with a little more gap between the rod journal and the bearing? Would it wobble too much and cause a bigger issue in the future if it is too small after smoothing it out?

 

[930dreamer]

A couple of questions,

1. Does this pump have a Saylor-Beall tag on it?

2. Were any of the fasteners metric?

 

[jonathan75]

A couple of questions,

1. Does this pump have a Saylor-Beall tag on it?

2. Were any of the fasteners metric?

It has a Saylor Beall tag and everything was standard, no metric found.

 

[930dreamer]

It has a Saylor Beall tag and everything was standard, no metric found.

Not sure where you've searched for parts, but you might call Ken from Air-Flo Inc @ 1-800-845-0125.

http://www.airfloinc.com/item/1042

 

[Mr onetwo]

Dude, you can get that crank welded very easily for a couple of hundred bucks.I believe the process is called submerged arc welding.

 

[jonathan75]

Not sure where you've searched for parts, but you might call Ken from Air-Flo Inc @ 1-800-845-0125.

http://www.airfloinc.com/item/1042

Thank you for the tip, I am still building a parts list and will wait to order after I have everything broken down.

Dude, you can get that crank welded very easily for a couple of hundred bucks.I believe the process is called submerged arc welding.

If it costs a couple of hundred bucks to fix it I think I can probably get a new crank for that price.

 

[jonathan75]

More pictures from last night.

 

[jonathan75]

And more pictures...