Sears' response on tools made in China

[kythri]

And we all know this is from "Inferior steel" how? Could be that they found they were getting more warranty returns and decided to beef it up a little to see if warranty returns stop.

Personally I'll buy CM if it's Made in the USA as I feel a premium is worth that. If not, it's HF or wherever for me for less $$.

Uhhh, I didn't say anything about inferior steel. I said "clearance issues" - i.e. I can fit a physically smaller wrench into more places than I can fit one that is oversized.

The "inferior steel" was suggested as a possible explanation for the oversized open ends, etc.

But, not by me.

 

[Conductor562]

I buy Snap-On for the design, RD and quality. I could careless where my Snap-On tools are made. If they need to go to china and can keep the same quality then great. I rather have Snap-On around then see them go out of business because they aren't making any money.

I commend you Sir for your open mind, however, you are the minority. The top 99% of Snap-On users would be pissed beyond belief. They pay top dollar for top quality USA tools and expect nothing less in return.

 

[ganymede]

Another thing some people here don't realize is that the average Garage Journal member is NOT representative of the average person who walks into the tool section at Sears.

 

[rogersmithiii]

I never buy cheap tools. I've broken too many at 4 PM on Sunday night with the car in pieces all over the driveway, and my need to be at work the next day.

 

[87FoRunner]

Poor people can't afford cheap pa...tools.

 

[stricht8]

Bottom line is that some of us don't have any interest in buying legendary tool brands such as SO or CM if they are made in China. No reason to give a reason, no reason to use reason or be rational in our decision. We won't buy them, OK? It just ain't happenin' period!!

 

[NC-Fordguy]

The" Lobster claw" as it is called here is not unique to the outsourced crafty wrenches. The made in the USA cross force wrenches also have this.

I've had the cross force wrenches since they came out and have yet run into a clearance issue with them

 

[d.mcfarland]

Does it matter which one it is?

Yes, because if breakage is far less common (aka less warranty returns), tool manufacturers would not be forced to either raise prices or take production overseas in order to honor their no questions asked warranty.

Look at Snap-On for example, they have high prices, dealer only service, and the average Joe can't return a "found rusted in a field" item. Hence they aren't giving out free tools to the low lifes that other posters had mentioned.

 

[Bull]

Y
Look at Snap-On for example, they have high prices, dealer only service, and the average Joe can't return a "found rusted in a field" item. Hence they aren't giving out free tools to the low lifes that other posters had mentioned.

I'm not sure. I've read for years about people on here buying used, rusty, chrome-chipped or broken SO tools and getting replacements through SO and some of the other truck brands, too.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

The" Lobster claw" as it is called here is not unique to the outsourced crafty wrenches. The made in the USA cross force wrenches also have this.

I've had the cross force wrenches since they came out and have yet run into a clearance issue with them

I've ran into it a few places with the "Universal" jobs, mostly on the Jeeps. There's spots other than the valvetrain where anything other than a tappet wrench is a tight fit.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I've ran into it a few places with the "Universal" jobs, mostly on the Jeeps. There's spots other than the valvetrain where anything other than a tappet wrench is a tight fit.

You are correct there, but I've always used tappet wrenches on those engines. (Right tool for the right job )I'm not sure if a conventional wrench will work for that application though??

Next time one comes in my shop I'll give it a try

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Craftsman hand tools had that "American as apple pie" image. It's like when Dallas fired Tom Landry or when Barney left Mayberry. Even if it was justified, and even if you wanted to understand, that **** just wasn't going to be accepted regardless.

I fail too see how that even supports this argument in any fashion in any way.

The Cowboys won 2 superbowls, back to back (which Landry never did) with Jimmy Johnson as Head coach

They also won 1 superbowl with Barry Switzer as head coach

Can't argue with results like that can you? Seriously?

 

[Conductor562]

I fail too see how that even supports this argument in any fashion in any way.

The Cowboys won 2 superbowls, back to back (which Landry never did) with Jimmy Johnson as Head coach

They also won 1 superbowl with Barry Switzer as head coach

Can't argue with results like that can you? Seriously?

Though not back to back, Landry did win 2 Super Bowls and 13 Division titles. He has the most playoff wins in NFL history and the 3rd most wins total. Dallas won 10+ games in 17 out of 20 seasons. And lets be honest, Barry Switzer was a shady *******. Landry hit a slump and Jerry Jones had every right to fire him, but Landry made the Cowboys "America's team" and firing him was sad to watch, no matter how justified it might have been.

 

[kythri]

The" Lobster claw" as it is called here is not unique to the outsourced crafty wrenches. The made in the USA cross force wrenches also have this.

I've had the cross force wrenches since they came out and have yet run into a clearance issue with them

Just took another look at my Crossforce stuff.

While they're certainly more lobsterish than my Craftsman Pros, they're not nearly as lobsterish as the new Lobster Claws.

 

[kythri]

Yes, because if breakage is far less common (aka less warranty returns), tool manufacturers would not be forced to either raise prices or take production overseas in order to honor their no questions asked warranty.

This assumes that this is why they moved production overseas.

I don't believe this to be the case whatsoever.

Look at Snap-On for example, they have high prices, dealer only service, and the average Joe can't return a "found rusted in a field" item. Hence they aren't giving out free tools to the low lifes that other posters had mentioned.

The average Joe most certainly does this, as evidenced by claims on this forum. Further, I've read more than a few accounts here of folks getting their entire Snappy set of wrenches or sockets replaced because one broken tool was replaced with a new one of completely different styling.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Just took another look at my Crossforce stuff.

While they're certainly more lobsterish than my Craftsman Pros, they're not nearly as lobsterish as the new Lobster Claws.

They appear to be the same head width or what is claimed here on this forum is excess steel because its Chinese garbage. The difference being the throat/opening is slightly deeper on the USA made cross force wrenches.

But it doesn't really matter as the bitching here will continue regardless.

 

[Dieselbutterfly]

Bottom line is that some of us don't have any interest in buying legendary tool brands such as SO or CM if they are made in China. No reason to give a reason, no reason to use reason or be rational in our decision. We won't buy them, OK? It just ain't happenin' period!!

damn right,brother

 

[d.mcfarland]

I'm not sure. I've read for years about people on here buying used, rusty, chrome-chipped or broken SO tools and getting replacements through SO and some of the other truck brands, too.

You are probably right, assuming they have a dealer that has a "relationship" with them. I guess my point is that literally anyone can walk into Sears and slap down tools and walk away with brand new ones and never pay the company a dime.

 

[carterbeauford]

try sending your complaint to someone at Sears who can actually do something about it, the contact Sears.com email form is not the right place to send it. being realistic, there is nothing we can do about it, there is no point in trying to salvage loyalty to a company that has already made such poor decisions. I though of complaining about being asked to apply for a Sears card every time I buy a $5 socket, pointless though, just shop somewhere else. I'm sure they already figured lost customers into their current operations equation.

Americans don't even know tools anymore.

you hit the nail on the head with the clear coated hammer

 

[kythri]

But it doesn't really matter as the bitching here will continue regardless.

Bitching about legitimate gripes can be cathartic.

The umpteenth new member posting a "OMG DID YOU KNOW CRAFTSMAN IS CHINESE MADE?!" is a bit old, and the lackwit "same old Crapsman" is old.

Intelligent discussion on the matter, however, is a different story.

For example: The topic is going to come up. When someone inevitably asks "Well, why not Craftsman?", providing your reasons in a calm manner is helpful.

Providing reasonable alternatives to people that are looking for alternatives would help, too - and, when I say reasonable, I mean reasonable.

If someone has the stated goal of purchasing domestic tools, then by all means, steer them to those brands.

If they have the stated goal of purchasing domestic tools but desirous of the no-longer-existing Craftsman-priced domestic tool, then politely make them aware of that, and steer them towards the closest thing.

But when someone isn't opposed to quality-made imports? They don't need people jumping down their throat, telling them that they're soulless heathens if they're not buying a truck brand, and other similar threadcrapping.

There's a LOT of bad advice being handed out on this forum, and I don't classify it as bad because I differ in opinion, but because it's just poor advice, from a financial standpoint, amongst others.

 

[kythri]

try sending your complaint to someone at Sears who can actually do something about it, the contact Sears.com email form is not the right place to send it.

[email protected] will get you much farther than the general customer service number.

This is the "Executive Customer Service" group, and, in my experience, is far more effective than the normal customer service.

Case in point: When it was determined that the Craftsman "Pro" stubbies were being discontinued and outsourced, and after confirming with multiple people that what was being sold online was, in fact, domestic production stuff, I ordered it, and instead, got Chinese lobster-claw stubbies.

The SearsCares folks were able to assist me with not just returning them for credit, but also purchasing up domestically-produced open stock and getting the package-deal price instead of paying 2-3 times more (like you normally would for open stock).

They were also incredibly receptive to calm, rational discourse about the outsourcing of the tools - whether or not it went farther than that, I can't say, but it's at least worth a start. If they aren't the best place to contact, perhaps they can provide a better point of contact for folks to voice their issues with the outsourcing.

Given the poor reception many industry folks have received on this board (I know that Sears had someone here at some point, as did Danaher/GearWrench, and others), I quite seriously doubt they pay much attention to the discussion here any longer, so direct contact is most definitely needed if you hope to influence Sears and get them to change their ways.

 

[Bull]

Given the poor reception many industry folks have received on this board (I know that Sears had someone here at some point, as did Danaher/GearWrench, and others), I quite seriously doubt they pay much attention to the discussion here any longer, so direct contact is most definitely needed if you hope to influence Sears and get them to change their ways.

Do you remember their names? I can recall one fellow who was part of the team that designed the new Craftsman Premium ratchets, which have been received well here overall, except for availability criticisms and multiple mentions of pawl issues. But, that fellow didn't participate much, even in terms of responding to positive PMs.

I don't recall any Sears reps.

I also am not sure that companies can afford to ignore negative discussion and only pay attention to positive or non-critical input. I am sure some of what is discussed on here is petty griping, but there are some macro-level concerns that are legitimate.

 

[kythri]

Do you remember their names? I can recall one fellow who was part of the team that designed the new Craftsman Premium ratchets, which have been received well here overall, except for availability criticisms and multiple mentions of pawl issues. But, that fellow didn't participate much, even in terms of responding to positive PMs.

I don't recall any Sears reps.

I also am not sure that companies can afford to ignore negative discussion and only pay attention to positive or non-critical input. I am sure some of what is discussed on here is petty griping, but there are some macro-level concerns that are legitimate.

Sears Cares
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117813

It shows that they only posted once, and provided an email address of [email protected]

They pretty much immediately got jumped in that thread, but that's actually mild by comparison to others.

I thought they had posted more than that - unsure if deleted posts would show up in their post count (or if you can tell if they posted in deleted threads)??

They also seem to have had the id of SearsCares (no space) but that account was banned for some reason? Same type of dogpiling in threads they came into, that could have been handled far better.

I don't disagree with some of the sentiment that there are endemic issues at Sears that need to be handled at a higher level than one-on-one interaction with the Executive Customer Service team, but here's the thing: it really seems that they were here trying to help, and perhaps if they had identified and handled enough individual issues, someone would take note and strive to fix the greater issue(s).

Instead, they either got banned or ran off. In the case of the ban, I know it's not customary to explain those, but any hints you can give as to why they were banned? That's really odd.

 

[Bull]

Let me look into those accounts. My initial guess is that they were banned for being corporate spammers rather than people who had joined to contribute to the forum. I'll investigate.

 

[kythri]

Alrighty, cool.

All of the posts that are available for public consumption simply seem to be a "We're sorry you had this issue, please contact us here and we'll help."

They didn't seem to be spamming, per se, even if the posts were virtually identical - they were targeted at specific people.

When I think of "corporate spammer" I think of some company coming in to try to push their wares where they aren't invited.

GearWrench Brand, when they were here, was a great example of NOT being a corporate spammer - posting interesting/useful stuff, trying to educate folks about new stuff coming out. Definitely, there's a marketing angle there, but it wasn't obnoxious/intrusive.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Do you remember their names? I can recall one fellow who was part of the team that designed the new Craftsman Premium ratchets, which have been received well here overall, except for availability criticisms and multiple mentions of pawl issues. But, that fellow didn't participate much, even in terms of responding to positive PMs.

I don't recall any Sears reps.

I also am not sure that companies can afford to ignore negative discussion and only pay attention to positive or non-critical input. I am sure some of what is discussed on here is petty griping, but there are some macro-level concerns that are legitimate.

The info that got back to me from a Sears DBM based upon the many focus groups that were queried, coo just wasn't an issue--pricing and warranty were the concerns. Sears ran these things for a couple of years gathering data. Basically consumers in these groups saw made in china as merely a reality of the modern business world.

More importantly as to your comments, I have the contact info on the folks at sears that make decisions.

I think there is a better avenue to pursue concerning this situation that has a better chance of success than griping. Tools sales are up for 4Q 2012 so griping (especially the GJ definition of griping), I don't think will be effective but I could be wrong.

However if you think a "GJ filing a grievance" kinda thing is a better way to go I can PM you that contact info and you can run with it. What I'm seeing on this forum doesn't install alot of faith that what we discussed via PM is worth pursuing.

 

[BJ42LX]

[email protected] will get you much farther than the general customer service number.

This is the "Executive Customer Service" group, and, in my experience, is far more effective than the normal customer service.

Sears Cares
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117813

kythri,

The link/poster you reference refers to the "Sears Cares Escalations team" not the "Executive Customer Service" group. Is there a difference?

 

[kythri]

I think the "Escalation Team" is internal to the Executive Customer Service group, or is another name for the same group.

[email protected] is one email
[email protected] is another (Social Media Support)

Were I going to email, I'd include both in the email.

In my own personal dealing, I got a confirmation email about my case handling, and was actually called directly by someone in the Executive Customer Service team.

I was quite happy with my experience (although, obviously, it would have been great to not have to escalate things in that respect).

 

[Ron56]

Craftsman tools made in China so they can maintain the big three? BS. That is what they have the China made "EVOL" version of tools! Craftsman was the only reason I went into Sears, have you seen how dead the stores are? Now they lost their tool customers. What a shame! US made tools at home depot and Lowes are going to sell better now!

 

[krdiesel03]

US tools at HD and Lowes?? Only old stock that I have seen

 

[Brownsfan]

The tools at HD and Lowes have not been USA made in years. There is still more USA made craftsman in the stores than at the others. You pretty much have to buy Snap On, SK, Proto, Armstrong, and Williams(USA) for a mostly made in the USA tool line. I left out Mac, Cornwell and Matco because there is a lot of Taiwan in those lines.

 

[woody 73]

Yes lowes has been dumping their USA tools over the side of the boat asap; shame because that is what made me shop in their stores in the first place.

 

[NHBandit]

Craftsman tools made in China so they can maintain the big three? BS. That is what they have the China made "EVOL" version of tools! Craftsman was the only reason I went into Sears, have you seen how dead the stores are? Now they lost their tool customers. What a shame! US made tools at home depot and Lowes are going to sell better now!

First post you drag up old **** from January ? There are plenty of current "Sears *****" threads you could have chosen from... Oh yeah.. welcome.

 

[Ron56]

Last night walk at Sears, China made sockets, ratchets, breakerbars, taps and dies, combination wrenches, etc. if USA tools are important to you your Craftsman warranty replacements are now all China made. Also Vise-Grip made in China. Marked "The Original"

 

[Ron56]

Sorry just coming down from weekend sight of all the China made "Craftsman" tools.

 

[Brownsfan]

Did you just wake up out of a coma LOL? Just kidding man. The vise grip thing was even before craftsman. I bet you just discovered this because sears was it Making it well known or very big on the package. The reason is the average customer would still think they are USA made because they always have been and you will keep buying them. They are hoping to keep sales up based on just the craftsman name. I wonder how many there are like you that are just discovering this.

 

[montanafordman]

Sorry just coming down from weekend sight of all the China made "Craftsman" tools.

Yeah, I came to that revelation a year ago - I'm still coming down from the shock and anger!


Once the consumer gives up the COO fight, price and quality are all that remains and Sears is falling behind in both of those categories among import tools. Sad to see a legendary brand fail in a long and slow death this way.

 

[Flybye]

I bought a few things this weekend at sears. A few missing sockets, a screw driver set that was on sale, a socket rack, and a 3/8 ratchet. Everything was made in the USA except the ratchet. While looking through the ratchet area, I noticed a lot of the ratchets ans sockets are now made in China. Most of the loose sockets seem to be made here. Most of the socket sets seem to be made in China.

I did come across this ratchet made here:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-prem...0902548000P?prdNo=12&blockNo=12&blockType=G12

You can even see on the pic where it says USA. It felt pretty amazing in my hands.

I've thought a lot about the fact that they are going over to China, and about the possible lowering of quality. But consider this set from Ingersoll Rand:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200317770_200317770

This set is made in Taiwan. I could not find not one complaint from anyone on any website about this set. So even though it is made in Taiwan it is typical Ingersoll quality.

I've been buying Craftsman tools for 20+ years. Heck I even have a drill that says Made in the USA. I should probably eBay it as rare and hard to find. I remember there was a time when anything saying Made in China was really the bottom of the barrel stock. The things you buy at a gas station as a disposable tool because you knew it was going to break in a few days. But it seams times are changing, and quality stuff can actually come out of that country. Problem is, it is completely up to the manufacturer to ensure quality standards.

It will probably be only a select few that will ever care about if the tools are made in the USA. I am proud of my American tools because I know they last. Hence my Craftsman 20yr old Made in the USA drill. Ultimately, there will not be anything we can do to prevent Sears from going overseas. There will never be a national "Do not buy Craftsman" campaign to make a difference. Unless its in the hundreds of thousands, a few emails to them will not make a difference. All we can do is pray they keep quality at a maximum.

 

[NHBandit]

I'm retired and have all the tools I'll ever need and then some. When I was wrenching professionally I had mostly truck brand stuff at work and alot of Craftsman stuff at home. These days about the only tools I'm buying at Sears are a few small things just to fill in the blanks in some sets and even those I will only buy if they are US made and if I've searched the flea markets first for good used ones. I don't even really need them since I have complete sets of Snap On, MAC & Matco wrenches, sockets, etc. Just hate looking at a set of C-man sockets that have 1 or 2 missing and I want to get them while I can still find US stuff. Still alot of bargains to be found as well if you watch the sales. A couple months ago I was sorting out Metric combination wrenches and was missing 2 sizes. Went to Sears to price them and they had a complete set on sale for 12 bucks and to buy the 2 I needed individually would have been almost that much. So I bought the set & now I have too many.. LoL It's a sickness. Sadly like I've said many times in the past, Sears is a dead man walking.. 5-10 years from now if they even last that long we will look back on Sears the same way we think about Woolworths, Western Auto or Montgomery Wards.

 

[MackMan]

Is there any real proof the made in China Craftsman tools are made to a lower grade. It's not where it's made that matter on quality but the whole QC process. I rather have the tools made here in the U.S. but it's going to cost more to produce and would you guys that complain about where it's made have a problem with paying 30 to 40% more on the tools?

Since seeing the China made Craftsman I have started (saving up) to buy Snap-On. Often I still buy used Snap-On but even used Snap-On runs higher than most new C-man. I still watch for "old" craftsman stuff as well.

IOW - Most customers DEMAND SO quality, HF pricing, and to be protected from their own abuse and stupidity for decades...sounds like many of those I deal with.

Realistically I think Cman was trying to fit a niche somewhere between HF and SO w/the USA made tools and it just got too expensive for them. I would say their customer base is mostly the HF "cheap is good" mentality, so they needed to offshore, lower their costs, and compette head to head w/HF.

This is the niche where Craftsman should be. USA made and the warranty were 2 reasons I was a Craftsman fan. Now Craftsman quality has declined and HF has improved, the quality difference is negligible (Standard grade ratchets from HF actually seem nicer than standard CMan). Sears has all but lost me as a customer for tools. I won't pay extra just for the Craftsman name, but I will happily pay extra for USA made and even more if it's superior quality.

Exactly... Sears exists to make a return on investment. No return = investors invest their capital elsewhere.

I don't like seeing Craftsman, a quality brand I grew up with, being made in China, but it's that or nothing. Personally I own older C-man stuff and avoid buying new if I can. I buy most of my stuff 2nd hand or have inherited it from my grandfather.

I don't fault Sears for making a business decision. They are in business to generate profit, not to make tools in the USA. However I don't like that they moved offshore, so I will elect to stop contributing to their profit. To me a Craftsman not made in the USA isn't really a craftsman.

I was dumbfounded by the lack of a full court press on their part when they released the premium ratchets. There were all kinds of reports on here that even store employees didn't know much about them. Those are some nice ratchets.

I have been looking for this ratchet in the store, and have yet to see one available. I keep hearing it's so nice, but if the stores don't carry them I'm not sure how they'll sell. I guess they hope for the online orders.