Second air tank as a dryer?

[cstmg8]

Working on plumbing in my new IR compressor. Basic specs are 230v, 60 gallon, 14 scfm @90psi.
I have an old kobalt that the head blew off of, but I was wondering about plumbing in the 26 gallon tank downstream to use as a dryer. Does this make sense? Would the smaller tank cool the air enough to drop water vapor?

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[Musicinabottle]

Subscribed.

 

[930dreamer]

I use a second 60 gallon tank for air storage, all my drying happens before it goes to this tank, I've never had a drop of moisture come out of the drain.

 

[EOC_Jason]

At the very least it will act as a surge tank to reduce pressure drop vs if you had a long run back to your compressor with a small air line...

Honestly though a HF filter dryer isn't *that* much...

 

[sberry]

I have one umbed that way, actually between 2 units, the backup has the breaker off and used as storage, the middle is a receiver for both and catches water.

 

[FTG-05]

The better question is: How could it not?

People here talk about adding "Franzinators" to their air dryer systems/strategies all time. Isn't a tank just a Franzinator, writ large?

It's a rhetorical question, here's a pic of my Compressor Corner with Franken-pressor with it's 80 main tank on the left and my 120 gallon IR aux tank acting as an Franzinator/air dryer in the center:

ETA: Forgot that imgur doesn't work on this site.

Here you go:

 

[930dreamer]

No pic?

 

[Lelandwelds]

I would plumb it after your filters as far from your compressor as possible. Or, next to your largest air hog. Even 5 gal can make a compressor feel like a larger one.

I have found it easy to get the water out for normal tools and very limited painting. How could it hurt ? (Assuming no leaks or failing tanks.) The best way bar none to cool is to add something like a transmission cooler or HVAC condenser. Or, a water jacket.

 

[Showkey]

Like others said above.........

When I was painting cars ( at home) ( years back) I would run a second tank of air with cold water running over the tank. It’s all about getting the water cool tank to then cool the air and to condense the water out.

In normal use a long run or the home made copper cooler system also works........then a water trap at the point of use. Second tank would do the same function.

 

[rsanter]

Does not work,that way.
There are commercial wet/dry tank systems where they go through the initial water separator or none at all and go I to a wet tank. They then go through a refrigerated dryer and then go into the dry tank.
If you are going to do that, you will want to put a water seperatly between them

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
That only works if the air is cooled.........the moisture can not be trapped or removed if it not condensing. That’s why they have air refrigerators on commercial units or professional paint air suppplies.

Using the second tank and water cooled homemade cooling is exactly that.......but homemade to get by. The second tank needs a drain just like any low spot in the lines.

 

[sberry]

I get water in it.

 

[fourjeepin]

The better question is: How could it not?

People here talk about adding "Franzinators" to their air dryer systems/strategies all time. Isn't a tank just a Franzinator, writ large?

It's a rhetorical question, here's a pic of my Compressor Corner with Franken-pressor with it's 80 main tank on the left and my 120 gallon IR aux tank acting as an Franzinator/air dryer in the center:

ETA: Forgot that imgur doesn't work on this site.

Here you go:

Are you using PEX for your airlines?

 

[Bretny]

What your trying to engineer is what large trucks use. Basicly a wet tank system. I would use the smaller tank between the compressor and real tank.

I used a version of the franzanator between my compressor and 60gal tank. I sand blast and paint with out further drying. I hardly get any water out of my 60gal tank, bostly just the franz.

 

[sberry]

I have a 3hp 2 stage as my main and another 5 as backup and high demand unit for a little blast work, could hook my truck on too but the breaker is off to the 5,,,, my air is on 24/7. With 200 gallons of tank and timing I havnt turned the boost on in years, I am usually done before demand is a problem. The 3 is nice on my rural lines, runs longer and less often.
I like the ingersol setup posted above too, same game.

 

[FTG-05]

Are you using PEX for your airlines?

Main air line:

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200484023_200484023

More pics of it:

 

[fourjeepin]

Main air line:

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200484023_200484023

More pics of it:

Thanks! I need to put up some airlines and have read countless threads on the materials to use and not use.

 

[ScottsGT]

Sharpe has an online diagram on how to run the line without moisture issues. I followed it and it works great. I come out of my tank (60 gallon) with a 1" galvanized pipe (I do have a piece of flex hose between the tank and the 1" pipe) and up the wall to the ceiling as high as I could get it. This runs parallel with the ceiling to the other side of my garage (24') with a slight drop of about 3" from one end to the other. Just has to be a downhill angle.
At this point, it 90's down towards the floor. About at eye level I have a "T" fitting with a reducer that goes into my dryer/regulator. There is about another 2' of drop below the "T" that leads to a on/off valve. That last 2' act as a drip check to collect any water runoff that doesn't make it into the dryer.
System works great in our very humid SC weather. The total of close to 30' of 1" pipe acts as a cooling chamber for the air supply. When running the compressor hard, the pipe at the compressor is very warm but cool on the other end by the dryer/regulator.

 

[dogdog]

It works well as a extra capacity, not that well just by it self as a cooler/dryer. It will take out some moisture but not that much at all... maybe bury that extra tank into the ground that would maintain constant temp and would work better. As it sits on ambient temp... not that much. It's different from frazinator, that thing sits between the compressor and the tank... air is hotter there.

I have a craftsman 33gallon.... then a craftsman 16 gallon I think as that setup... it works as what I mention above but not anything more without some sort of mod.

 

[FTG-05]

Thanks! I need to put up some airlines and have read countless threads on the materials to use and not use.

I just realized you may have asked about the red air lines that I used to connect the two tanks and to the main iron pipe header line. That's 3/4" jack hammer rubber air line. I got it off of Ebay for $25 for 50' of it. Pretty flexible but also pretty tough air line.

As far as using that Rapidair Maxline as my main air line: One of the best decisions I made in the last year or so. Extremely easy to pull +75 feet of it along my shop wall. Very easy to connect to it for drops etc. And nice looking to boot.

After I installed the Maxline, I had 30' of copper pipe I ahd orignally planned to use for my main air line. I decided to solder it up for an air cooler. What a massive PITA. All soldering was done on the ground. If I had tried to use it as a main air line, soldering 10'-12' off the ground, I'd still be doing it. The Maxline was a piece of cake vs. just 30' of soldering copper pipe.

 

[sberry]

I just redid a bunch of steel, all in the ceiling. In hindsight should have bought 2 100 ft rolls of air tubing.

 

[engineer2]

As you compress air, it's RH goes up. Anything that acts as an aftercooler will remove moisture as you cool the air down to ambient. Compressed air will be often at 100% RH when you cool it back to room temperature. Open and air line and drop the pressure, and your air is oversaturated. You may not see it, but it's there.

Google "Water In Air Calculator xls" for a handy spreadsheet that shows the effectiveness of various moisture removal methods.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Copper and steel are not that hard to use. The hardest thing about steel is getting all the lengths right and trying to follow roof peaks, etc. Chasing leaks is a PITA. Unions are a wonderful invention. A lot of the assembly can be done on the ground.

I plan on 3/4" steel with SS fittings for each drop and near the compressor. One of the PEX or polyurethane tubing will make the rest. The HF refrigerated cooler and gel kitty litter are very interesting. Coal, lump charcoal, and polypropylene oil spill pads are supposed to make great oil absorbers.

I will probably pipe all my gases.

 

[sberry]

A lot of those ideas are great in industrial but not needed at home. Before plasma and modern saws all our cutting was oxy, LP and acetylene. I used to have central bottles and 100 ft hoses on each. I went back to a cart and only use 1 gas. I wouldn't bother piping anything but the air and water. A lot of extra work, very little gain for modest use. I used a torch the other day to cut a couple bolts off, first time in a couple weeks.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Don't spoil my daydreaming! This stuff isn't expensive to do if you already have the pieces.

I run both a large rosebud and a forge. Either it all is going outside or the tanks are. I have become a big believer in locked cages and boxes. I really don't want a torch that can be dragged anywhere on the property. Not a big fan of propane tanks venting inside whenever they want.

 

[sberry]

I can understand LP.

 

[TexMedium]

There may be some merit to this idea. To wit, modern railroad locomotives use a two reservoir system, that is the compressor feeds the first tank, the first tank feeds the second tank, and the second tank feeds the systems that use the air. And these things use A LOT OF AIR!. We are supposed to (ahem) manually drain each tank every calendar day, there is ALWAYS much more water in the first tank than the second, depending on weather conditions and use, draining the moisture sometimes takes 5 plus minutes. And these are BIG tanks, 5 to 6 feet long, nearly 24 inches diameter.

 

[Homerr]

GJ helped me out on this issue a while back, read about it here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351150


Very useful: https://cached.tptools.com/Images/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

But here's what I ended up with, added a Kobalt tank to cool the air and new manifold: