See my lighting schematic. Overkill?

[woodbutcher80]

hey guys. im just finishing up running my electric to the new 36x48 shop and its time to space out these lights. to see the build click here .

its 36x48 with 12ft ceilings. there is a 16x12 clean room in the back left corner.

right now i have 38 4' lights and it just seems like i have 1 row too many. see picture below. i planned on buying these lights since they seem to have good reviews. plus they have a 5' plug so i can just install switched duplex receptacles to plug them in. easy to replace that way as well.

specs:

4'
4k led
4100 lumen

let me know your thoughts. thanks!

 

[cybrdyke]

You should move the fixtures against the wall inward so that they're at least 4' off the walls. Then re-configure your rows from there.
You are overkill in the clean room unless you're doing surgery in there.
Good luck,
CD

 

[bobdole4u2]

You probably need like, 2/3s that many lights

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[matt_i]

What I did was to break the tabs in duplex outlets so the "top" outlet comes on with switch #1 and the "bottom" outlet comes on with switch #2.

So half of the lights come on with one switch and half come on with the other switch.

Don't need all of the firepower for just going out to find a tool or something.

 

[woodbutcher80]

thanks guys. ill try eliminating a row of lights.
Matt, thats a great idea. i was planning on having 1 circuit be the left half/bay of the garage and the 2nd circuit/switch be the right bay. just for that reason. i like your idea better, but that would mean i would have to have both circuit runs travel to every light, rather than just half.

 

[woodbutcher80]

how is this? 24 lights total now.

 

[woodbutcher80]

I added 6 total in the clean room instead of 4. I had a outbuilding that was 12 x 16 for years and it had for 4 4-bulb 5000k standard lights in it. It was nice since I can turn on 2 at a time with 2 switches so it was half brightness. lll do the same in here with the six

 

[Platonic Solid]

If this is a functional workshop then you're using the wrong fixture for the application. 12ft ceiling would ideally be using ~8000 lumen fixtures if you're looking for 93fc @ workplane. If this is just storage then carry on.

 

[woodbutcher80]

Its functional. Work on cars, fabricate etc. What do you suggest for lighting then? I cant find any 8ft leds

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO I would consider using 8' fixtures. I originally speced in 4'ers and after thinking about what a PITA it was going to be to wire all those, I went 8' and never regretted it. Mine are 8' 4 bulb, just changed out all the flo bulbs for 6500K Utilitec LED drop ins.

24x40

 

[Platonic Solid]

Its functional. Work on cars, fabricate etc. What do you suggest for lighting then? I cant find any 8ft leds

I didn't say 8', I said 8000 Lumens. Something like this: https://www.prolighting.com/commerc...ommercial-lighting/t443ssubcxx00p0-18w5k.html

 

[woodbutcher80]

got it. Thanks for the link. So essentially you're saying I need to buy the same amount of lights but twice as many lumens?

 

[Platonic Solid]

36x48x12 empty space with linked 3-lamp 8000Lm fixtures,

6x4 arrangement = 80fc @ 30" workplane
7x4 = 93fc
6x5 = 99fc

Or a 5x4 arrangement of 80W linear highbays (link) = 98fc

 

[woodbutcher80]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It is pretty slim pickens for eight foot fixtures around 50 bucks (double the 4ft price). As long as I keep the same amount of suggested lumens, I can just get 4 Footers if I run into a bind ...no?

 

[Matti]

You should move the fixtures against the wall inward so that they're at least 4' off the walls. Then re-configure your rows from there.
You are overkill in the clean room unless you're doing surgery in there.
Good luck,
CD

I agree. I wouldn't buy fixtures that need plugs (and a whack of outlets) though.

 

[Platonic Solid]

For comparison purposes - 36x48x12 empty space with 4ft 2-lamp 5300Lm strip fixture from post 1 of best light fixture sticky:

6x4 = 53fc
6x5 = 66fc
7x5 = 76fc
8x5 = 87fc
9x5 = 98fc

 

[woodbutcher80]

Wow no kidding. I would need 40+ 4 foot lights to get to where I need to be. I'll check that post out. I know I looked at it briefly to calculate how much each light would be. But I'll look into it more.

 

[woodbutcher80]

just checked out that sticky. the separate led bulbs dont come in 4000k temp. only 3k and 5k. ive had 5k's in one shop and theyre a bit too blinding blue. ill keep digging.

now as for the outlets being a pain.... im thinking you might be right since with the hard wired models i just need a hole in the metal ceiling to poke the wires in and make the wire nut connections inside the light box. done. ill need to get some grommets to pop in the hole i make in the 28ga white roofing im probably going to use for the ceiling

 

[Platonic Solid]

https://www.prolighting.com/led-lig...ps/opposing-end-led-t8-48inch/gl07103-2m.html 4000K $8.09 + shipping after Black Friday discount.
or
https://www.ledmyplace.com/products/t8-4ft-led-tube-18w-4000k-frosted
4000K $6.99 (slightly lower lumen output) Free shipping over $99

 

[woodbutcher80]

i like the second link. way better value plus free shipping. but theyre frosted. does that matter or hinder light output?

 

[woodbutcher80]

here is the best 2 bulb combo im seeing right now if i was 4k temp, 2400 or more lumens, 4ft t8 bulbs

$15.48 per housing if buying 24+ free shipping
https://www.beeslighting.com/maxlit...MI14SP24O_1wIVlYqzCh1cTgPhEAQYASABEgJM9_D_BwE


$6.49 per bulb if buying 25, free shipping . 4k 2400 lumen.
https://www.ledmyplace.com/products/t8-4ft-led-tube-18w-4000k-frosted?variant=28486702861

-----------
$28.46 total per 2-bulb complete fixture

i looked up some FC recommendations and it suggested 50fc for auto workshops. to give you more background, ill be mostly working on cars, motorcycles, some welding work, and thats about it. the clean room will be more detailed work, but not much. ceiling will be shiny white metal roofing, walls will probably be white drywall. floor is dark concrete. 12ft ceilings.

giving that, what configuration would i need if i wanted 50-75fc in the 2 bulb fixtures above?
thanks!

 

[kbeal10]

FWIW I shot for 100fc in my garage that's used for general purpose things like what you mention. I'm very happy with the results, I certainly wouldn't want less light. I was able to do it without breaking the bank by finding a deal on a ton of old 2x4 fixtures and settling for fluorescents.

My shop is essentially 32x48 and I used 30, 4 bulb Fluorescent fixtures. I laid everything out using advice/tools recommend here by the likes of Platonic Solid and dialux. I'd post the layout but I can't find it and its not that interesting, just a 6x5 grid equally spaced.

As my bulbs and ballasts burn out I intend to convert to LED t8 replacements but couldn't justify the cost of doing it up front. It'd be pretty easy to get to the 8000lm/fixture number Platonic Solid is recommending with 4 LED's in these fixtures - though I'm not sure I'll need that much light with my 10' walls.

I also have many of these fixtures left over and may be within a couple hours drive. Let me know if you're interested and I'll PM some details.

 

[woodbutcher80]

Thanks for the info. I think if I stick in the 75 FC range I'll be okay. Also I'm going to stick with LEDs since I'm doing it right the first time. Thanks for the offer though.

Platonic, when you can let me know how I should lay out the lights based on those fixtures I put in my last post. Maybe 7 deep and 5 rows across? Then 5 in in the clean room? Thanks

 

[Fisherguy]

Check this out, spent hours playing with this trying to figure out my shop:
http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/default.aspx?id=14782

With 12 foot ceilings I think you could use high bay fixtures.
I just ordered these for mine:
https://greenlightdepot.com/collections/led-linear-high-bays/products/lhb-110w-with-lens-and-w-o-lens?variant=36041819012

I played with using other fixtures and came back to the high bays, it's a lot cheaper, fewer lights, less wiring to mess with etc.

 

[woodbutcher80]

wow this tool is amazing! thanks Fisher! man i with they made these light dimmable it would make things easier..

 

[Fisherguy]

I punched in 36x48 and got this.
I didn't take into account the room in the corner, but you get the idea, 12 lights.



What your plans are for the walls will really affect the results. I'm using birch plywood on my walls and hope to put a clear finish on them but might hafta paint them white if it's too dark.

If Platonic says I'm giving you bad advice go with what he said, he helped me tons.

These fixtures are dimmable.
Some info in my thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406840

 

[woodbutcher80]

ceiling will be bright white metal roofing.
walls will be drywall. no idea on either white or like a tan, and no idea on sheen either. heck itll be all covered up with shelving and pegboards anyhow.

also i wouldnt know the room reflectance either. now that i think of it, i did seal the floor with some fancy cure and seal so its pretty shiny, but was told itll go flat after awhile once it settles in...

 

[woodbutcher80]

also, 12 high bay lights instead of 40? ill take that any day, especially since, if its too bright, i can dim them! lets wait for platonic to chime in though... since in a reply he sent to you, he said your 12.5' was cutting it close for high bay minimums..

 

[woodbutcher80]

weird side note:

i couldnt find the bulb you bought in the tool, so i just used the bulb you used int he example, with the same lumenance and i came up with another row of lights... weird. heres the screenshot.

 

[Fisherguy]

Interesting...
I used .... 15000LM SD080 ND....
You used ... 15000LM SD080 MD ...
Not sure the difference. The ones I input are the equivalent of the lights I used.

I spent hours reading on here and making notes before staring my thread, there's lotsa into on here, specially in the stickies.

BTW Prolighting will do layouts for you and give you quotes, their options were more than double the cost of the lights I finally went with. I think in general 4 or 8 foot fixtures will be a lot more than high bays. 12 foot is about the minimum height they can be used with I think.

https://www.prolighting.com/

 

[woodbutcher80]

so i looked up the difference between the lithonia ND and MD... its medium vs narrow distribution. it has to do with meeting needs of both vertical and horizontal light level requirements... according to their pdf. but i dont think itll matter too much since the lithonias in that 3d tool we are just using as a reference.

anyways, it also states that their lithonia high bays can be mounted from 10-15', BUT they need a minimum of 18" of chain suspending them...

here is how they worded it:

"INSTALLATION — Suitable for suspension by chain, cable, surface-mounting bracket, hook monopoint
or single (pendant) monopoint. Surface mounting not recommended without optional surface mounting
bracket. To maintain ambient listing, fixture should be mounted at a minimum plenum height of 18". "

 

[Fisherguy]

Don't get too hung up on the Lithonia's, I only used those in that tool as an equivalent to the greenlight depot ones after reading of others doing that on here.
In what you quoted they also mention a surface mount bracket.

Lotsa people on here have surface mounted high bays, some lights have optional surface mounting brackets available, some do not.

I ordered the lights and brackets in this thread yesterday.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407513

 

[woodbutcher80]

thanks. i guess i dont see why you couldnt just open the wire plate cover, and zip a couple deck screws through the top of the housing into your joists.. that is im assuming they are built the same way as the old ballast t12s where you can make the wire nut connections inside the light housing... mounted the old ones that way a bunch of times..

 

[Fisherguy]

I don't think the wiring covers are meant to carry the weight, and I think the lights need some space cuz of the heat they give off..?

 

[woodbutcher80]

ok so since im narrowing down my design, i decided to post for people to critique.

here are my specs as a refresher:

36x48 building
12ft ceilings
birght white metal roofing
white walls, but they will be covered with wood shelving for storage.

Attached is my updated lighting drawing and the three 3d schematics from a online lighting program. i chunked off the building into 3 sections as youll see in my drawing.

i planned on mounting THESE frosted 2ft high bay lights. i felt frosted would be the way to go since im only at 12ft with high bays...

With 16 of them, . this would give me around 100 or so foot candles and i can use a dimmer which will be a must since i wont want 100+ FC all the time .

I feel like i have 3 or 4 too many lights. maybe 1 less in the clean room and 1 less in the tool and fabrication area in the back right...

NOTE: Since i chunked off the whole garage into 3 defined areas, i end up with 4 more lights (16) than when i just punch in 36x48 on the 3d tool, which suggests only 12 lights. all in all i think im on the right track though

attached in order:
overall flooring plan/drawing
3d lighting schematic for front toy storage and work area
3d lighting schematic for back right tool and fabrication area
3d lighting schematic for back left clean room

 

[woodbutcher80]

I'm having a hard time finding 3-way light switches with 0-10v dimmer wires that will handle 7 or 8 of these lights on the same switch, let alone my 13. The only one I found that seems rated well is below. It should handle 8 at a time. I'll probably just buy two

Lutron DVSTV-WH Diva 8 Amp 3-way/Single-Pole 0-10V Dimmer, no neutral required, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SA9BEJO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Platonic Solid]

Budget dimmer (dimming only = no On/Off) here (link) can handle all your fixtures at once and more.

Here's 1 of many available mid-priced all-in-one dimmer+On/Off switch (link)
Spec sheet (link)

 

[pbon]

I am using the Eaton Cooper, the paddle switch version DF-10P.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UXR8YTO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have 8 lights (40W LED) on one of them and think they can take more. I forget the wattage limit. I wanted gray so I had to pay more for the version that includes a gray cover. For white, these look good:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UXR8YTO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[woodbutcher80]

thanks guys.

so a few things buzzing in my head...

the switch needs to be a 3-way dimmer switch. it will be tied into a basic 3 way switch on the clean room wall, and a basic 4-way switch on the stairway.

- i would love for it to control ALL 13 in the main area.. one less run of 14/3 to the switches! But each of THESE lights are 112 watts. i assumed i needed to get a 3-way switch that can handle the juice (1,455 watts). thats why i was going to go with the 2 lutrons that can handle 8 amps.

Based on your suggestions, am i to assume that- since there are separate leads for the dimming action- i wont overload the 3-way dimmer if i put all 13 on?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Based on your suggestions, am i to assume that- since there are separate leads for the dimming action- i wont overload the 3-way dimmer if i put all 13 on?

Sounds logical, as long as you don't have the power feed of all the fixtures going to that switch. I'd go the cheap route and use the $25 dimmer I linked above and a six pack of 3-way switches for $7.50 (link).