selling home, requested repairs

[chicken89]

Quick synopsis of me seling my home
House was built about 1945, most of wiring is from around that time (i cannot date it exactly, but for my question, lets presume it is from that year). I state "most of the wiring is from around that time" because there was an expansion made to the house. The expansion is up to code for the date that it was made.
Now, my question. In selling our house, the buyer had an inspection that stated that the 2 prong outlets needed to be replaced (i think there is only 1 or 2), and GFCIs were needed to be added in kitchen and bathroom. Now, when i bought the house, the inspector stated that the house is grandfathered in regarding the electrical due to the year it was built. I just looked back over his inspection report, but it did not state this info. Is bringing the electrical up to current code required, is it advisible just to sell the house, is it just the nice thing to do, or is it not even required?

Also, if a licensed electrical contractor would like to email me about this, I would greatly appreciate it. I would be able to forward a copy of the report to get a more definitive answer on what would need to be done. may also be able to solicit services!
Our response is due 1/19, so a quick response would be greatly appreciated.
Home location: Shelby County, Indiana

Thank you in advance

 

[aandpdan]

Just consider the home inspector as a resource and not as an authority. You could check with your local code office but it is very likely that your wiring is grandfathered.

GFCI's should be installed but are not required. Obviously a defective receptacle should be replaced. You can still find replacement 2 prong receptacles.

The inspectors report should be a basis for negotiation. You should not affect any of these repairs unless licensed. Instead, you could offer them $100 off and let them handle any upgrades.

 

[Longhair]

Quick synopsis of me seling my home
House was built about 1945, most of wiring is from around that time (i cannot date it exactly, but for my question, lets presume it is from that year). I state "most of the wiring is from around that time" because there was an expansion made to the house. The expansion is up to code for the date that it was made.
Now, my question. In selling our house, the buyer had an inspection that stated that the 2 prong outlets needed to be replaced (i think there is only 1 or 2), and GFCIs were needed to be added in kitchen and bathroom. Now, when i bought the house, the inspector stated that the house is grandfathered in regarding the electrical due to the year it was built. I just looked back over his inspection report, but it did not state this info. Is bringing the electrical up to current code required, is it advisible just to sell the house, is it just the nice thing to do, or is it not even required?

Also, if a licensed electrical contractor would like to email me about this, I would greatly appreciate it. I would be able to forward a copy of the report to get a more definitive answer on what would need to be done. may also be able to solicit services!
Our response is due 1/19, so a quick response would be greatly appreciated.
Home location: Shelby County, Indiana

Thank you in advance

Hey, I live in Bartholomew County, IN.

If your house was built in 1945 and the home inspector only dinged you on a few outlets consider yourself lucky and replace the outlets if you want to sell.

 

[foompla]

Going through this exact scenario now as a buyer. That's exactly the offer we extended.

 

[vettex2]

Nickel and dime repairs are BS
sell it as is and be done with it.

 

[Firebird 1]

The code is a guideline. The buyers paid for an inspection and he said they should be upgraded. It is simple a safety matter. They should have the option within the contract that says what they want corrected before they take possession. You have the option to say whether or not you want to fix it or not, or give them a monetary credit for them to have the work done when they move in. If you choose not to fix they may be able to walk away from the sale. Your agent should go over this with you.

 

[ovscrider]

Home inspectors will point items out not to current code, like everything else in the process how you handle the repairs is all about negotiation. Lots of home inspectors scare people when they point out these things but most of us lived in houses with no gfi and 2 prong plugs growing up.

 

[ssdave]

The inspection is done for, and paid for, by the buyers to give them information to use against you, the seller.

The information in that inspection report can be used by them to justify asking for repairs, or doing a price adjustment.

Like any negotiable item, it is a two way thing between the buyer and seller. They can use the inspection report (I presume it was a contingency of their offer) to ask for concessions, whether that is money or repairs. As a seller, you can either accept their request for concession, or make a counter offer.

Personally, on a house that doesn't have GFCI's in the bath and kitchen, I'd have them installed. They are a good idea for you, as the current occupant, and the right thing to do for overall safety for anybody. Replacing the 2 prong with 3 prong, if only a few, is also a good plan. I would have paid to do all this BEFORE I put it on the market, now is the next best time to do it.

I would get a quote to do the work, and have them split out the costs between the GFCI's and the 2 prong replacement. The GFCI is really a safety issue, and should be done. The 2 prong is less of a safety issue and is a major convenience issue for the buyer. I'd counteroffer with you paying for the GFCI work, and them paying for the 2 prong to 3 prong work. Or, you pay for the GFCI, and they hire whoever they want to do the rest of the work. That way, you're taking care of the real safety stuff, and they're taking care of the convenience stuff.

As you've thought, it's all grandfathered. But, it makes sense to update it now.

 

[Longhair]

The lender may have requested the inspection and require the updates be done.
They don't give money away like they did a few years ago.

Less than $70 bucks in materials.......it's the right thing to do if you have a buyer.

 

[tomroblee]

You stated "the buyer had an inspection". I assume that this means that you have accepted an offer that was made subject to some sort of inspection (and perhaps other conditions such as the buyer being able to obtain financing.)

I believe that the issue depends on the wording of the offer. If a realtor is involved, the realtor generally provides the potential buyer with their standard "offer form". The offer forms that I have seen seem to protect the realtor's commission more than the interests of either the seller or the buyer.

Review your legal forms and see what language they contain. If you have access to the inspection report, see how it classifies any defects. Often the language in the realtor's offer forms is not consistent with the language used by the inspector. For example, the offer form may give the buyer the right to insist that you fix all defects. The inspector may have stated that your wiring does not meet current building codes. Your wiring probably does not meet current building codes, and it probably is NOT defective.

From a practical standpoint, you need to understand how badly you want to sell the house, how badly the potential buyer wants to buy the house, and the amount of earnest money involved. (your contract with a broker MAY give the broker the right to keep the earnest money.)

 

[JamesW84]

Just sold mine. The inspection came back specifying GFCI outlets in the kitchen, but also a couple other larger repairs. I told them I'd do a couple of the things, but not any of the other, including the outlets. They accepted, but they didn't have to because they were still in their inspection period.

 

[wake74]

The buyer has every right to request anything they want during the inspection period. Big items, small items, petty items, just plain stupid items. You have every right to say yes, go pound sand, offer a discount in lieu of repairs, etc. Since real estate is 100% location, location, location, in a sellers market, I'd say no to pretty much everyone, in a buyers market, the buyer is always going to ask for more stuff, as they know you are going to give it to them just to close the deal.

As others have said, certain loans may require that any safety, structural issues, code deficiencies be repaired prior to closing. But again, that doesn't mean you have to do it, just means you may be looking for a new buyer. Oddly enough though, I think with an FHA loan, the inspection is not relevant, the loan required repairs come from the FHA approved appraiser.

 

[Pluribus]

The GFCI outlet thing in kitchens (and bathrooms) is a normal item in a buyer's inspection. It's one of those things that inspection firms like to call out to prove their value to home buyers. "See, we're concerned for your safety. Aren't you glad you hired us?" It's not a code issue; it's just one of those things that is an easy upgrade to improve safety. Unless your area has some bizarre requirements, you aren't required to do it, but it's a super-easy change out. As for the 2-prong outlets to 3-prong, there are a few options depending on whether or not you have a ground wire to those outlets.

Buyers' inspections are just that, an inspection done by/for the buyer at their expense. It is different than an appraisal, which is done by/for the lender. For an appraisal, the loan and sale may be subject to certain things being done. A buyer's inspection is NOT shared with the lender or any municipal AHJ, and the items on that are addressed in agreement with buyer and seller.

If these two things are all that is being asked for on a sale on terms you like, it's a no-brainer to do, IMHO. If it's not a task you are comfortable doing, I'd be inclined to call an electrician and describe the work with the plan of getting a quick quote, then just have them do the work while they are there to quote it. Then, sign the contract and send it back like it's on fire.

 

[brownbagg]

a lot of people will claim, new hvac, new roof, etc and expect you to pay for it then they haggle you on the price.

i would just say "no" its not a new house, it not going have new roof or hvac

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are only 2 ways to "properly" upgrade from 2 prong plugs to current code standard 3 prong plugs.

• Rip the wiring out all the way back to the main panel.
• Install GFCIs everywhere with the sticker that says "This is NOT a grounded outlet."

Offer them $5,000 to have THEIR electrician fix it ! Otherwise, you are going to have a ******* contest on your hands !!

 

[Jess]

I had this scenario on a sale some years back. They had a long list, mostly cosmetic and I felt the property was fairly priced and didn't want to get into vanity fixes. I instructed my realtor to counter offer at $35,000 over the offer with all items on their list completed by possession. A day later they removed any requirements and we sold at the original agreed upon price. I'd do the same today. There are lots of buyers at a fair price.

 

[doubleot]

Inspections are bargaining tools nothing more. When we sold our twin home our first buyers requested a brand new AC unit, furnace, new carpets, new dishwasher etc. Hole bunch of **** off is what I had my realtor tell them.

A few outlets and some time isn't a bad deal IMO. If you don't wanna deal with it. Price it out and say this is what I'm willing to take off the price.

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[padroo]

I would recheck with the county or building inspector and see what they say.
They are the only ones that can make you do anything. If a bank won't loan on the house it's their money, I would hold tight and see how it plays out but still check with the inspector anyway. Most houses would fail some part of a home inspection if they look hard enough.

 

[4xdog]

We have a city inspection in order to get an occupancy permit in my close-in St. Louis suburb. Two-prong outlets are fine. GFCIs within a certain distance of water (six feet, I think) are required to pass in my town.

It's pretty easy to check with those guys about any changes. As noted, private inspections are advisory, not directive.

 

[Northislander]

As a fairly frequent buyer and seller of Real estate. I have been on both sides of the fence. When i am the seller most offers are subject to an inspection as well as financing as was said before the inspection is usually a condition the lender requires. If i really want to unload the property i will either negotiate the repairs or carry them out. Otherwise i wait for a cash purchaser.
When I'm buying i usually carry out my own inspection when viewing then make my offer based on my desire for the property i will note the deficiencies that i am taking on and reflect that in my lower offer. The only time i ask the vendor to fix something is if i can't assess how bad or expensive it could be for instance a buried possibly leaking stove oil tank.

 

[slow]

This is dependant on where you live and local codes, but now that they have had it inspected, they may want the work to be done by a licensed electrician.

Had a friend of a friend selling a house, inspector found a defective GFCI that needed to be replaced. The owner replaced it and they wanted to see the invoice of where a licensed electrician did the work. Seller replied, I did the work, and that started a discussion when he refused to pay for somebody else to do the work he had already completed.

Eventually the owner showed them his master electricians license and offered to create an invoice if the potential buyers wanted to pay for his services, in the end it was all taken care of but that is one Pandora's box to open, especially if there are no grounds.

 

[jgbnm]

It's a negotiation. You can do the work, do some of it, or none of it. If you choose some or none, the buyer can terminate and you start over. In a really strong market, sellers have the upper hand in any negotiation. In a weak market, the opposite is true. No matter what, your time is probably worth more than a couple of hundred dollars for this request.

If that's all they're asking for after an inspection on an old house, I'd sign it and be done. My preference for a resolution would be to give the buyer a small credit towards closing costs (or price reduction) equivalent to the $ amount an electrician would charge. That way, there are no concerns about other issues being found while the work is being done.

3 pronged outlet is just a convenience thing. All inspectors would deem the gfci's a safety issue. Easy and cheap to fix.

Under any normal circumstances, a lender or appraiser does not see an inspection and should never be told or sent info noting significant house problems. There are a few minor exceptions that are not likely to come into play.

Of course, if the buyer is asking for a pile of other stuff as well, then it's a different story and negotiation tactics may be different.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[tcianci]

Tell the prospective buyer that the house you have for sale is the one he and his inspector looked at, not the one they want you to remodel for them. They can't make you do anything. If any of this stuff was that all fired important, someone from the AHJ would have come out while YOU were living there to make sure you were safe. It's all about the buyer getting as much remodeling/repairs done on your dime before he closes on the place, don't fall for it. Just tell them the price reflects the condition of the house, warts and all.

 

[Yamaguy]

I had this scenario on a sale some years back. They had a long list, mostly cosmetic and I felt the property was fairly priced and didn't want to get into vanity fixes. I instructed my realtor to counter offer at $35,000 over the offer with all items on their list completed by possession. A day later they removed any requirements and we sold at the original agreed upon price. I'd do the same today. There are lots of buyers at a fair price.

This! They like the house or would not of put an offer on it. I would tell them fly a kite.

 

[Ironcrow]

There are only 2 ways to "properly" upgrade from 2 prong plugs to current code standard 3 prong plugs.

• Rip the wiring out all the way back to the main panel.
• Install GFCIs everywhere with the sticker that says "This is NOT a grounded outlet."

Offer them $5,000 to have THEIR electrician fix it ! Otherwise, you are going to have a ******* contest on your hands !!

Yes, this^^^^

As a buyer I would not ask a seller to give me 3 prong plugs. If I did, they'd probably bootleg the ground from neutral and call it done (the wrong way).

As theoldwizard points out recent code allows a GFCI without the ground connected as long as its noted.

 

[jgbnm]

Yes, this^^^^

As a buyer I would not ask a seller to give me 3 prong plugs. If I did, they'd probably bootleg the ground from neutral and call it done (the wrong way).

As theoldwizard points out recent code allows a GFCI without the ground connected as long as its noted.

I don't think they're asking for a grounded outlet. I suspect they just wanted to be able to use a three-pronged plug. Or I'm interpreting it wrong?

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[Technologyteacher]

When I bought my house my realtor "found" a copy of a home inspection from a previous offer that fell through. Using that report, we went through the house and noticed the expensive item had been corrected, apparently by the seller before the other offer fell through. That made my as is offer easier to make, and more attractive to the seller. This was 16 years ago, on the report the inspector wrote the roof would need replacement in a year or two. 16 years later same roof is still working but now getting to be close to needing to be replaced. Just shows that inspectors have a list of common items they put in their reports to give buyers negotiating points.

 

[Mustang1167]

If all your buyer is asking for is a few outlets updated I suggest to quit clicking keys and start changing the outlets. All that work could be completed in 30 minutes by any competent individual. When I bought a home I bent the seller over backwards doing repairs. Nothing about a home inspection is mandatory for the seller to complete. If you choose not to complete the repairs the buyer is asking for he can legally withdraw his offer.

 

[fteufert]

Adding a 3 prong outlet might be simple, but actually getting the proper wire thru the wall might not be easy or cheap.

I have a house built in 1910, and some of the wires are damn near impossible to get to without ripping off the plaster and lathe. When I sell it, the new owner can replace them.

Offer them $100 off the price, and let the new owner change things and let the liability of a possible half assed upgrade fall on them.

If they walk away from the offer, oh well, then they really didn't want the house.

 

[Daedalus]

From a practical standpoint, you need to understand how badly you want to sell the house, how badly the potential buyer wants to buy the house, and the amount of earnest money involved. (your contract with a broker MAY give the broker the right to keep the earnest money.)

This. At this point the buyer already has skin in the game and are less likely to walk for any reason. They might be planning to do the work themselves and hoping you pay them handsomely for it. Around here, people have been paying 10% and more over list and waiving contingencies to get a home--any home. My zip code was down to 4 homes for sale just a couple months ago.

OP, why aren't you discussing your options with your realtor? That's what they're getting paid for.

 

[ard]

This. At this point the buyer already has skin in the game and are less likely to walk for any reason. They might be planning to do the work themselves and hoping you pay them handsomely for it. Around here, people have been paying 10% and more over list and waiving contingencies to get a home--any home. My zip code was down to 4 homes for sale just a couple months ago.

OP, why aren't you discussing your options with your realtor? That's what they're getting paid for.

Because the realtors only get paid if the house sells...and the realtor surely doenst care if this costs OP another $2500.


OP, Id do nothing. "house is compliant with he NEC as of the date it was constructed". If you want to be nice, install GFCIs. DO NOT offer to upgrade the two wire plugs, as pointed out this could turn into a HUGE deal (if there is no ground int he walls)




Years ago I was buying a home that had 3 wire plugs in it. Turns out the entire system was not grounded, they just slapped outlets in. I claimed this was a hidden defect and needed to get fixed. Saved me over 5k. I gutted and rewired the place anyway.

 

[chicken89]

My realtor sent me the inspection report with requested fixes. the report looks like an idiot wrote it. "house was cluttered", "i saw space heaters", "extension cords in attic to heat lamp" (obviously didn't go into attic or plug in light, its the only source of light up there), "gutter spout needs to drain 6' from foundation" (which means it will drain into middle of driveway).
as someone said before, looks like they tried to find everything wrong with the house so the buyer could say they want $10,000 off asking prince. in reality, maybe a couple hundred dollars in parts, and a few hours of labor. most things i could have done had i not been so stressed with packing

 

[ishiboo]

Personally, if that's all that needs to be done I would install GFCIs at those locations and be done with it. The home inspector works with the BUYER, and has nothing to do with code. 2-prong outlets are a pain for people since so many things are 3-prong. GFCIs are a brainless decision to install in kitchens and bathrooms, unlike AFCI/CAFCI/etc. Even if you don't want to do it for this buyer, the next buyer may want the same.

What will cost you $40 in materials, most buyers can argue are several hundred dollars of fixes for them to have an electrician come in and handle for them.

You don't have to do anything. But it sounds like it will not take much to get it sold. You can counter back with a small amount off for them to do the repairs if you'd like.

 

[ishiboo]

My realtor sent me the inspection report with requested fixes. the report looks like an idiot wrote it. "house was cluttered", "i saw space heaters", "extension cords in attic to heat lamp" (obviously didn't go into attic or plug in light, its the only source of light up there), "gutter spout needs to drain 6' from foundation" (which means it will drain into middle of driveway).
as someone said before, looks like they tried to find everything wrong with the house so the buyer could say they want $10,000 off asking prince. in reality, maybe a couple hundred dollars in parts, and a few hours of labor. most things i could have done had i not been so stressed with packing

Do you realize the home inspectors job is to point out problems with your house? Do you realize its done both so they know what's wrong, and so they can take money off the price to fix? Even experienced flippers have home inspections often, their job is to not miss anything. A bunch of small things to you can add up to a $10,000 bill with a contractor after they buy the place. As a buyer I will always get a home inspection, even though I can see almost everything that's wrong, because it covers me from missing something big, allows me to negotiate a better price, etc.

Can you imagine if they did not put that stuff in, what happens when the buyer finds all these things after they've paid for a home inspection?

Sounds like there are legitimate concerns and the inspector did their job. If they need to inspect the attic and the only light is on an extension cord, that's a problem. If the house is cluttered, they have a harder time finding every and all issues... and you have a harder time selling. If there are space heaters, it means the heating in the house is not properly designed, there are window leaks, etc... so you have chosen a less efficient method of heating.

If you weren't willing to get to this point, then reject/counter-offer with NO INSPECTION CONTINGENCY... and good luck getting anyone to pay your price then.

 

[justanengineer]

Dealing with idiotic inspection reports is pretty common. If I really was worried about not getting other similar offers I'd offer a token gesture of a couple hundred off, if not then nothing. Depending on how the offer was written you may or may not get to keep their earnest money if they back out of the deal as this doesnt sound like a code or occupancy issue.

 

[Chief919]

I ran into this selling my last place. Buyer was a first time homebuyer and pretty clueless and it was clear her agent was trying to play games to get the price dropped.

They submitted the inspection and extensive repair request, about $10,000, on a Sunday when the due diligence period was ending that day at midnight, request either all repairs done before closing 8 days away or an allowance for $7500.

Things like the inspector noting "exterior lights not functioning, recommend licensed electrician inspect and repair" and the contractors estimate saying "Rewire and replace exterior lights $500". I went over and changed the bulbs, the realtors kept leaving them on and both were burned out. And "mulch within 6 inches of home" with a $250 estimate to move it, etc.

Lots of things he wrote as code violations or electrical issues were not and my electrician who is an old friend and I wrote a detailed list of things he was wrong about ending with a suggestion that the inspector take some classes on current NEC. He wrote up outlets with the ground prong on the top as a violation that needed to be flipped over, wrote up that the refrigerator in a spare room on a GFCI was a violation, wrote up that the washing machine outlet was supposed to be GFCI and lots of other junk. He even wrote up that the main power service into the breaker box should be taken apart and coated with anti-ox paste- and it was copper! Out of a huge list of electrical "faults" 2 were legit.

First thing I did was look up the contractor they had the repair quote from. Turns out that they were not a licensed contractor nor a licensed electrical contractor or electrician. Now in NC the amount they quoted would be legal without a license, but once they included anything electrical with was not legal because they had no electrical license and couldn't legally subcontract.

So I went and fixed some of the stupid ****, like the light bulbs and mulch and small staff, fixed the 2 legit wiring issues one backward outlet and one GFCI not working right, and submitted a response that pointed out between the stuff that was BS and what I fixed by their contractors estimate we had covered $6500 in repairs and we felt that meeting them more than in the middle by fixing or showing no fix needed for 65% of the cost they listed, and within $1000 of what they asked for, was more than fair and meeting them well past the middle. And that is they wanted anything else done I would first require an estimate from a legitimate, licensed contractor instead of an illegal work bid from an unlicensed one who was a friend of the buyers agent.

Closing went down on schedule with no further talk of repairs. Cost me about $200 in materials and 4 hours of time to wipe out their $7500 demand.

 

[Whitworth]

It's a sellers market. Tell them to F off.

 

[pcmeiners]

As to the question of replacing a few GFIs and a couple outlets you post a question on the forum, you have to be kidding.

 

[Showkey]

Sold a home in IL three years ago. Buyer tried the GFIC kitchen thing. It was 1979 Kitchen with new cabinets, counters and floor etc. The kitchen had no GFIC but were grandfathered and they the buyer agreeed.

We did get hit on radon is an area that is not prone or susceptible to radon due to soil conditions. We refused to install a unit and gave them a check for $1000 at closing. Radon retest and time delay was not worth the effort.

Had a high end power realtor..............he warned us prior. Inspections are NOT a reason to reopen negotiations. The common one is buyer does not like the bathroom tile........inspection then says the tile is leaking or has mold on the chalking. The other one is an older furnace or water heater........functioning perfectly..........but they ask for new units.

Defects like well and septic, water leaks, foundation, structure problems, mold ( which can also be bogus) , wiring defects are all fair game for repairs. But seller can always still say no especially in seller market.

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

As to the question of replacing a few GFIs and a couple outlets, you post a question on the forum, you have to be kidding.

well he made the post so obviously he's not...