selling home, requested repairs

[crewchief888]

been through this a couple times.
my sold her house about 10 years ago. the house had been previously updated, all the "inner workings" of the house were good as far as the inspectors were concerned and had a complete roof tear off done 6 months prior.
the problem was there were several things that were not to current code, no grandfathering was allowed.
the town inspectors were the biggest PITA with a LOT of what i considered cosmetic "problems". small cracks in the garage floor had to be sealed, the concrete apron outside the garage door was weathered and had to be repaired.
i had installed an outdoor sealed outlet outside the garage for my diesel truck, tucked up under the eave, sorry thats not permitted, i removed the conduit, wiring and outlet, THAT wasnt good enough either, had to remove the box completely. it was ok for the hole to be there where the box was at

when i bought my house my lender required an inspection. electrical and plumbing had to be to current code.
seller had to replace the main breaker box and breakers, (a breaker was double lugged when the central AC was installed back in the 90's) the original breakers were no longer available, and bring the garage electrical to current code, at the time, meant a GFI outlet, a single switched overhead light, and an outlet within 5 or 6 ft of the garage door opener.
we also had an issue with the well not passing inspection, the house had been vacant for over a year. it took a while to get it to pass, but eventually did.

lenders requirements, and local codes sometimes have a seller bent over.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I would just offer them a little $ for the repairs and let them handle it. That way if it turns into a can of worms it's on their dime...

 

[madison069]

Occupancy Permit for local code requires GFCI outlets near water source or outdoor outlets. Smoke alarms and CO detectors are also required here.

I'm currently a buyer for a house and that's currently the issues for the seller as she didn't have GFCI, detectors, a rail on some steps, and the garage door had a extension cord between the garage door and power outlet and that's a no-no.

I did do a home inspection due to the roof was bad and the seller kept claiming the roof is "good for long time." I said it's not and if a inspection is conducted this would be listed. She didn't agree so I did a inspection and guess what, there was already minor leaks found in the roof and so I counter offer with the report and pictures documenting the roof issue. She agreed to reduce the price of the home and so now I'll have to repair the roof. I didn't say anything about the 25 yr old boiler or carpet or anything. I just want a sealed house and permit to occupy the house legally as per my muncipality.

I think I've been a easy going buyer considering the **** the seller has been doing to us.

 

[engineer2]

We ran into the kitchen GFCI issue selling my parent's home. No big deal to upgrade. I had the 12 ga wire, bought the new outlets and two 20 amp breakers. Got a relative who is an electrician (to make it legit) install it all in 2 hours. Luckily that's all they asked for.

It's a sellers market. Tell them to F off.

Not in Illinois, people are moving away. You have lots of empty homes to choose from.

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

There are only 2 ways to "properly" upgrade from 2 prong plugs to current code standard 3 prong plugs.

• Rip the wiring out all the way back to the main panel.
• Install GFCIs everywhere with the sticker that says "This is NOT a grounded outlet."

Offer them $5,000 to have THEIR electrician fix it ! Otherwise, you are going to have a ******* contest on your hands !!

That is assuming there is no ground wire. Most of the homes have dealt with are only a few years newer than the one mentioned and have grounded metal boxes with two prong receptacles. All you need to do is replaces them with self grounding receptacles (remember to pull the insulating washer off) for about fifty cents a piece. 250.146(B)

You could so put in a grounded type receptacle if fed through a GFCI. 406.4(D)(2)(c)

 

[unslow1]

We ran into the kitchen GFCI issue selling my parent's home. No big deal to upgrade. I had the 12 ga wire, bought the new outlets and two 20 amp breakers. Got a relative who is an electrician (to make it legit) install it all in 2 hours. Luckily that's all they asked for.

Not in Illinois, people are moving away. You have lots of empty homes to choose from.

That is definitely the case around here. One brother just sold his house for less than what he paid for it 15 years ago. He had added siding and a deck. The other brother bought one last year for 71K less than it sold for 3 years ago.

 

[sberry]

I did something similar on a sale. Thet came wanting a big discount and I said, come back next week it will be fixed and 2K more, fine by me. Suddenly it wasn't so important.

 

[engineer2]

That is definitely the case around here.

Yep. Our house is worth the same as it was 15 years ago, despite $50k in upkeep and improvments. Our property taxes have doubled, with the unintended consequence of drivng home prices even lower.

We are in a death spriral: Taxes go up, businesses and people move out, home values drop, which forces tax rates even higher on the remaining people, more people move out....repeat process. County says "We can't lower taxes, we have a county to run." (actual quote).

 

[aandpdan]

From the OP's post this sounds like it was a home inspector, not town or municipal inspectors - there is a big difference.

Around here, the occupancy permit is granted when the building permit is signed off. Just selling a house does not trigger the need for a new occupancy permit. The ONLY required inspection in MA is that of the local fire dept to make sure it complies with the smoke detector requirements. Wiring, plumbing, etc., is grandfathered.

The buyer may need certain things done in order to obtain financing. That is a different matter entirely.

Local codes vary. The OP should check with the municipality code officer. The OP should not make any repairs unless licensed to do so.

 

[Falcon67]

It's not that big a deal. Check the market in your area. If it's decently strong with buyers, then say "no". If they walk, get the next buyer. Or, if the market is not so much sellers, then just discount $1000, 2000 ish and offer a 12 month home warranty (they are cheap). Done. Home inspection items are not a requirement for the seller, they are advice and negotiating tool for the buyer. Exception would be a threat to life an/or property uncovered in the inspection. Still, as the seller you can say "no".

This is done all the time, how do you think they sell re-po houses. Banks don't fix things. As is, where is. I did our own inspection of this property - service panel ungrounded, water heater damage, bath fixture issues, carpet ruined, doors damaged. Seller's rep was just "you want it or not, this is the price."

 

[straps57]

The next buyer will likely have the same complaints. Just fix the stupid outlets. It's not like they are asking for a brand new HVAC just because the current one is "old and they don't know how long it will last".

 

[aandpdan]

Just fix the stupid outlets.

Before the home inspection would have been the time to do it. Now, all involved know there is a problem. If the OP fixes it, and something goes wrong later, it could bite him - big time.

Pay a licensed contractor or negotiate repairs.

 

[Casey69]

There are only 2 ways to "properly" upgrade from 2 prong plugs to current code standard 3 prong plugs.

• Rip the wiring out all the way back to the main panel.
• Install GFCIs everywhere with the sticker that says "This is NOT a grounded outlet."

Offer them $5,000 to have THEIR electrician fix it ! Otherwise, you are going to have a ******* contest on your hands !!

that would be my concern too. you can't easily ground anything when your whole electrical system is dated to 1945. 2-prong outlets aren't easily found at most home-centers, so people just replace them w/ 3 prong ones & forget about it.

does a gfci outlet do much w/out a ground?

 

[Ironcrow]

does a gfci outlet do much w/out a ground?

Yes, the outlet trips on a fault detected between hot and neutral despite the name of the device.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

There are only 2 ways to "properly" upgrade from 2 prong plugs to current code standard 3 prong plugs.

• Rip the wiring out all the way back to the main panel.
• Install GFCIs everywhere with the sticker that says "This is NOT a grounded outlet."

Offer them $5,000 to have THEIR electrician fix it ! Otherwise, you are going to have a ******* contest on your hands !!

IIRC, if the house is wired with BX that has a bonding strip, a grounded outlet can be installed with the receptacle bonded with a pigtail to the outlet box if it's metallic. It's still not the best way to go.


Tommy

 

[engineer2]

despite the name of the device.

A GFCI is design to detect a difference between hot and neutral current, typically less than 30 mA or way lower, depending on the design. If there is, it can be a leakage to ground or through you body to ground (bad). It should trip within a cycle and a half or shorter, in which case you would get a brief zap. This is just general info, as there are many GFCI designs and situations.

 

[FMB4]

I'd follow EOC_lason's advice (post #42). Otherwise, you might find yourself at the mercy of the inspectors (both private and county) and/or buyers. These issues could hang-up your closing date and possibly cost you in both repairs and closing date extensions. My 'experiences' with inspectors while buying and selling houses (4 bought, 3 sold) has been mostly bad to say the least. This is especially the case when the inspector has a 'connection' with the buyers or sellers and/or their R.E. agents (which is very common).

 

[sberry]

that would be my concern too. you can't easily ground anything when your whole electrical system is dated to 1945. 2-prong outlets aren't easily found at most home-centers, so people just replace them w/ 3 prong ones & forget about it.

does a gfci outlet do much w/out a ground?

Some cases it might even be better. It was splained how but I forget at the moment but it is the perfect safety device and makes up for any issues all the way back to the service.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Yes, the outlet trips on a fault detected between hot and neutral despite the name of the device.

GFCIs are much more sensitive than that. It dues not have to be a "fault". It will trip if there is more than 5-10ma (?) DIFFERENCE on hot and neutral.

 

[sberry]

It should be called a ground fault assumption device.

 

[xkvator]

when we sold my Mothers house,,,circa 1950,,,me and my brother fixed a couple safety things...hand rail for some outside steps.

the 2- prong receptacle by the kitchen sink would have been a PITA to rewire, so we took out the receptacle, capped the wires, and put a solid cover plate on...

 

[TractorJeff]

When I was looking at buying a house with rental apartments, we paid for a home inspection. Lost the purchase due to someone offering more money. Next house we looked at I did the Inspection myself as I had followed this guys sheet. I did pay a "Chimney Sweep" to inspect the chimneys and he REALLY Raked the lady and her father over the coals for the defects they claimed didn't exist. Once the defects were pointed out they accepted my offer. She actually had to write a check at closing to get out of the Sale. She didn't have the money so Daddy wrote it!
She left the house a pigsty and some boxes of stuff. I wanted to Goodwill it but the wife insisted on giving it to her. Go figure!

 

[Barnabas]

I was selling a house once and the inspector said the hole in the sheetrock in the utility room needed to be patched. I told the potential buyer that I would be glad to do it, but it would cover up the main water cutoff. They said it was OK if I skipped that item.

Inspector also claimed an outlet was wired backwards. I tested it, and it was fine.

 

[sns1938]

The lender may have requested the inspection and require the updates be done.
They don't give money away like they did a few years ago.

Less than $70 bucks in materials.......it's the right thing to do if you have a buyer.

When we sold last year, it was pointed out that some loans (Veteran ones maybe, maybe like FHA or something), require all safety things to be done.

Given it's a couple of GFI's and a few outlets ... I would do the GFI's anyway. The GFI's are 10 minutes work each for an electrician, and the ground ... well, that depends on the house and how hard it is to run the extra wire. If it's a room where someone would likely not have things plugged in that use the 3rd wire/ground, then I'd not bother.

Our house was from 1949, and previously it had the GFI's added and some rooms had the third wire/ground. We didn't add the 3rd wire to the other rooms (lounge and 2 bedrooms). The buyers were on a conventional loan, so it didn't matter.

 

[mattygee]

The one variable no one has brought up when meeting post inspection demands vs negotiating a write down, is in many places, getting an electrician or a plumber within the time frame of an imminent closing is impossible.

Yes, home inspections can be a bit scammy, but even seeming trivial items can also scare off a potential buyer if their concerns are rejected out of hand, sellers market or not.

 

[FMB4]

...getting an electrician or a plumber within the time frame of an imminent closing is impossible.

Yep, and they know they've got right were they want you, which often means that they'll over-charge you and/or insist on doing work that is not needed. Another common contractor problem is that they'll start the job and then 'disappear' for days, weeks, and even months. The selling process has many serious pitfalls that can cause you much grief, money, and time wasted. This is why I always recommend that you retain legal counsel (i.e. a lawyer) during the process (doing so saved my wife and I from several shady buyers/inspectors/RE agents, and one outright escrow scam. The escrow business went out of business less than a year later and one particular RE agent was convicted of theft, etc, (from another client) and went on to spend something like 6 months in jail.

 

[flat tire]

I just sold my home place built in 1944. unless you are going through a realtor sell it your self AS IS NO WARANTY EXPREDSSED OR IMPLIED
perfectly legal

 

[SiGmA_X]

OP, I realize you already made a decision being you said it was due on the 19th. Would you be willing to share the outcome?

IMO, this is pretty boiler plate when selling (or buying) a house. You options are:

* You hire a contractor to fix the things (that require it - electrical, for instance) or you fix things that don't need a contractactor - I realize most of us on GJ can replace receptacles, but don't take the liability when you're selling. It's not legal in most areas to DIY electrical within 6mo of selling.
* You tell them nope their offer was for the house as is and they could see the receptacles were 2 prong and no GFCI in wet areas, as per common for the year constructed.
* You offer a few grand off.

A combination of the above is often common, it just depends on the defects and the heat of the market and your desire to get out. With your fixit list, I would probably offer to replace the outlets in wet areas (hire an electrician, it'll be an hour or two of time tops) with GFCI's and not upgrade the 2 prongs. 2 prong upgrades will be thousands of dollars to replace. At most, offer a small price concession regarding the 2 prongs, but that was on the buyer - they saw them at the walk though before the offer. If they didn't, that is also on them.

Also, for others, you always want to sell a spotlessly clean and uncluttered house. It makes the offers higher, inspections easier, and move out easier which means faster closing. I've helped extended family sell a few houses (and watched/participated in the purchase/sale negotiation process a few times too), and the houses that were uncluttered sold for more, faster, and easier. It's especially helpful when you're selling an off-market house, the appraisers seem more happy to appraise at the agreed upon price, which can be more of a concern if the house was never listed and only one offer was received. This is market and comp dependent of course.

 

[ard]

. It's not legal in most areas to DIY electrical within 6mo of selling..

Really?

 

[chicken89]

my father-in-law works for hvac/electrican/plumber. he had the head electrician come our for the electrical stuff 2 days ago, the 19th. ended up not being too bad price wise... and if its not done correctly, its on them now (bill shows work done).
haven't heard anything brom buyer yet

 

[SiGmA_X]

my father-in-law works for hvac/electrican/plumber. he had the head electrician come our for the electrical stuff 2 days ago, the 19th. ended up not being too bad price wise... and if its not done correctly, its on them now (bill shows work done).
haven't heard anything brom buyer yet

The buyer never accepted your response to the inspection contingency? Doesn't that mean the deal terminated?

Really?

Maybe I should have used "some" areas. I know it is true for multiple countries/cities in Oregon and Washington. This is what Portland, OR, specifies and I've read similar in a couple WA countries.

"You must be both the owner and occupant of the house in order to do the electrical work yourself. This work may not be done on a dwelling that is now or will be for sale, lease, rent or exchange in the next six months."

 

[jywilli69]

It's funny how you bash inspectors. If you was buying a home, you would do the same thing. Inspections protect seller and buyers i think depending on who is inspecting.

 

[chicken89]

so, here is an update. yer is wanting to withdraw her offer. her reason is that we are not offering $10,000 credit for FUTURE repairs, in addition to already agreed upon home warranty. We erpaired/replaced almost all of the inspection requests (we did not do the cosmetic stuff like replace the front storm door becasue it squeeks). The only reason for withdrawing the offer was the $10,000 credit/reduction of sale price. For an agreed upon price of under $100,000, coming down $10,000 was not an option in addition to the fixes already made. buyer also wants all excrow money back.
buyer will not get her escrow money back due the requested fixes being made, and especially due to not having a valid reson for withdrawing the offer. Now, our realtor has not heard of a buyer withdrawing for not getting a >10% of sale price for future possibilities, but has to contact her reginal manager about how to procees. i already informed her that i will not accept the withdraw, but need advice on how to proceed since we cannot force the buyer to buy the house
there was another offer made a couple days after this current offer that our realtor has tried to contact to see if they were still interesed should this one fall through. she has not received a response yet.

 

[billspit]

Keep her earnest money.

 

[Showkey]

You fixed "almost all" their requests..............did you get that "almost" was agreed to in writing ????? Before you started "repairs" there should have been an agreed to list of things. Was it agreed to in writing the split in the door was NOT going to be fixed ? Future repairs, is that things on the prior inspection list or new things or just future things that might happen ?????

If it's not agreed to in writing then you lose . Sounds like your agent is not the best. Ditch this buyer and find the next. The current deal is done and getting into a legal fight for for the good faith money is not a good idea. The buyer will find a way out on financial loan issue or something else.

 

[Whitworth]

so, here is an update. yer is wanting to withdraw her offer. her reason is that we are not offering $10,000 credit for FUTURE repairs, in addition to already agreed upon home warranty. We erpaired/replaced almost all of the inspection requests (we did not do the cosmetic stuff like replace the front storm door becasue it squeeks). The only reason for withdrawing the offer was the $10,000 credit/reduction of sale price.

My guess would be either the buyer was a first time novice, got cold feet and is creating an excuse to get out of the deal. Or she got bad advice in the way of how much money you, the seller, could be shook down for.

Just a waste of your time. You and your agent were badly served by her real estate agent.

 

[vavet]

I think it's a game RE agents play. They convince you, the buyer, to make a low offer or ask for a lot of concessions on a house that's out of your league. They convince you that the house is overpriced and it's getting no activity so the seller will be amenable to your offer. You start imagining yourself living there. You like that idea. You like living there. Then BAM!!! The seller rejects your offer and counters with very little concession. Now you've fallen in love with the house and how it's going to change your life for the better. Your wife also loves the house. You're screwed. You have no choice. You have to pay the extra money.

 

[chicken89]

update to the issues
we sold the house. the buyer that the inspection was with backed out. she lowered it to $6251 instead of $10k. odd amount. she threatened to take us to court if we didn't let her out AND return earnest money (didnt give reason for either). our realtor told us that there was another interested couple that wanted the house for same asking price. so we let the first buyer (the one that had the inspection done) out with earnest money so we could proceed with second buyer.
the second buy wanted to use the same inspection report. i told him the stuff that we would do (get GFCIs in and fix shower handles) and would provide some other stuff for them to install (attic fan, grounded outlets). buyer said that was ok.
house is now sold, and we have an offer in on a second house

 

[ddawg16]

update to the issues
we sold the house. the buyer that the inspection was with backed out. she lowered it to $6251 instead of $10k. odd amount. she threatened to take us to court if we didn't let her out AND return earnest money (didnt give reason for either). our realtor told us that there was another interested couple that wanted the house for same asking price. so we let the first buyer (the one that had the inspection done) out with earnest money so we could proceed with second buyer.
the second buy wanted to use the same inspection report. i told him the stuff that we would do (get GFCIs in and fix shower handles) and would provide some other stuff for them to install (attic fan, grounded outlets). buyer said that was ok.
house is now sold, and we have an offer in on a second house

You should have called her bluff....kept the earnest money. Not sure what she could sued you for. No default on your end. You wouldn't even need an attorney....you have a signed contract....it's up to her to prove why she should be out of it. Worst case, you have to give her back the earnest money.

I would have called the bluff just on general principles....

She is the type that created the need for earnest money. I get she puts a lot of stuff on layaway...then changes her mind.

 

[ddawg16]

Anyway.....glad you sold the house

Not sure how you are going to provide grounded outlets without doing a bunch of wiring.

If you install GFCI's at the start of each leg, it's about as safe as you can make it.