bbbarracuda
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
- Messages
- 709
Absolutely need to hire good local company that can evaluate and give you an estimate for repair. Folks on the internet are not a good source of info for this type of problem.
Septic tank at ground level
- Thread starter Hobby_Man22
- Start date
OP
Hobby_Man22
Well-known member
No it's an old style septic. No pumps and sprinklers etc.
quickfarms
Well-known member
How big is the current house sf, number of bedrooms and number of bathrooms?
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jar944
Well-known member
Umm.. no.
Worse $ will be an aerobic system. But at least you don't have a mound in the middle of your yard to deal with.
Bretny
Well-known member
If you mean throw dirt over the lid..YES!. Your leachfield is acting like a drywell for the surface water and is prob waterlogged at this point but putting less water in it is a very good and cheap start.
So many people feel like "calling the pros" is the first option and I can tell you that the "pros" arnt going to just throw dirt on the lid and redirect the surface water as theres no money to be made for them. After all there in business to make money.
The system not being used for 20yrs dosnt mean anything. After all it's been taking surface water for 20yrs and it's still working until it gets water logged. Just get the tank pumped and start fresh with no solids in the tank.
Bretny
Well-known member
I have never heard of a building inspector telling a family they have to move out due to a toilet not flush nor a leach field failure. Nor have I heard of environmental fines for any of the above.
quickfarms
Well-known member
So you have a house built around 2015 connected to a septic system that was put in in the 1990’s with no records on the system, how big it is or the size of the house it was designed for.
I used to design a lot of septic systems in the 90’s. The design is based on the size of the building, sf number of bedrooms and bathrooms, the soil conditions, site grading, water table and percolation rate.
how this house was allowed to be connected to an unknown septic system is an interesting question.
an expert can look at the tank and see if it appears to be the correct size for the building. The bigger the building the bigger the septic system, I used to try to talk the client into building a system for the future and not jyst
when the septic system was installed was it completed or was just the tank installed and the leach field never installed, completed or damaged by construction or simply someone driving over it. I have seen many leach fields damaged or destroyed by a car driving over it.
site grading is another question. Even though the site looks flat to the naked eye you admit to 2” of standing water over the tank lid which makes me wonder if the system is in a low spot on the property and the site grading needs to be modified. A topographic survey is required but you could start with some elevations on the property if you know someone who has a surveyors level and knows how to use it, most contractors can do this.
The fact that the system was not used for 20 years is a major concern for multiple reasons. The first issue is since you have runoff entering the system this also brings silt and debris. The second is that if the system dried out there is the possibility of jacking during the early part of the rainy season. The next issue is since the system was unused you do not know what was going on above ground.
a percolation test involves digging a hole with a auger or post hole digger and dumping a 5 gallon bucket of water into and timing how king it takes for the water to disappear
another issue you may have is ground saturation since the problem only happens during the rain. If the storm dumps more water that the ground can absorb the system will fail if it is not designed to deal with it. You can test for this by installing a piece of 4” to 6” pipe in a 4’ deep hole, near the septic tank, the pipe needs to be capped to prevent rain water from entering. When it is raining and you septic system is not working pull the cap off of the pipe and see if it is dry or full of water.
the problem that you describe is very common here in Southern California in the high desert
testing a septic system with a garden hose is a joke, we used to test then with a fire hose connected to a fire hydrant or water truck
the three things I would do first is research to see if there are any records, have the system pumped and have it inspected, and determine the grading of the site.
I used to design a lot of septic systems in the 90’s. The design is based on the size of the building, sf number of bedrooms and bathrooms, the soil conditions, site grading, water table and percolation rate.
how this house was allowed to be connected to an unknown septic system is an interesting question.
an expert can look at the tank and see if it appears to be the correct size for the building. The bigger the building the bigger the septic system, I used to try to talk the client into building a system for the future and not jyst
when the septic system was installed was it completed or was just the tank installed and the leach field never installed, completed or damaged by construction or simply someone driving over it. I have seen many leach fields damaged or destroyed by a car driving over it.
site grading is another question. Even though the site looks flat to the naked eye you admit to 2” of standing water over the tank lid which makes me wonder if the system is in a low spot on the property and the site grading needs to be modified. A topographic survey is required but you could start with some elevations on the property if you know someone who has a surveyors level and knows how to use it, most contractors can do this.
The fact that the system was not used for 20 years is a major concern for multiple reasons. The first issue is since you have runoff entering the system this also brings silt and debris. The second is that if the system dried out there is the possibility of jacking during the early part of the rainy season. The next issue is since the system was unused you do not know what was going on above ground.
a percolation test involves digging a hole with a auger or post hole digger and dumping a 5 gallon bucket of water into and timing how king it takes for the water to disappear
another issue you may have is ground saturation since the problem only happens during the rain. If the storm dumps more water that the ground can absorb the system will fail if it is not designed to deal with it. You can test for this by installing a piece of 4” to 6” pipe in a 4’ deep hole, near the septic tank, the pipe needs to be capped to prevent rain water from entering. When it is raining and you septic system is not working pull the cap off of the pipe and see if it is dry or full of water.
the problem that you describe is very common here in Southern California in the high desert
testing a septic system with a garden hose is a joke, we used to test then with a fire hose connected to a fire hydrant or water truck
the three things I would do first is research to see if there are any records, have the system pumped and have it inspected, and determine the grading of the site.
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Simply having your water supply turned off can, in some counties, result in you being evicted from your property. Btw, 'building inspectors' rarely have anything to do with this. It is most always a city, county, or state code violation issue.
Quote: "Nor have I heard of environmental fines for any of the above."
Well, on my side of the US, I've seen severe enviro fines filed against subdivisions under construction that were found to have failed to properly prevent rain water runoff from recently excavated land.
Quote: "Nor have I heard of environmental fines for any of the above."
Well, on my side of the US, I've seen severe enviro fines filed against subdivisions under construction that were found to have failed to properly prevent rain water runoff from recently excavated land.
Rick B.
Well-known member
A few years ago we had our drain field replace because it was about 30 years old and was starting to fail. A company came in, replaced the leaching lines and added a lift station which now pulls water from the septic tank and pumps it into the leaching lines and out into the drain field. It works great and no more over flowing of the septic tank.
walta
Well-known member
Jacksonville house condemned after leaking septic tank floods neighbors’ backyards
A family’s home has been condemned after its leaking septic tank left a smelly mess in neighbors’ yards.
www.actionnewsjax.com
Many areas septic inspection is a critical inspection at time of sale. Just like the well……..either spectic or well issue will stop the sale from the county view point or mortgage company’s or both.
My current county requires three year tank pumping and inspection.
The reason ground water contamination. (Your well and the neighbors)
Theres also an end of life mandatory replacement of septics, older than 50 years, at sale it must be replaced.
That three year inspection and pump is $150-$250. You get a reminder in the mail from the county. The septic pumper sends a document to the county.
“Every time a septic tank system is inspected, maintained, or serviced, a report must be submitted electronically to the Marathon County CPZ Department office by the POWTS professional on behalf of the property owner. Reports must be submitted within 30 days of completion. If maintenance is not reported on time, the CPZ Department will send a notice reminding the property owner that the legally required maintenance of the septic tank system is due and that the POWTS code requirements have not been met. Maintenance requirements will not be satisfied (and code violations will be in effect) until Marathon County receives the required completed report from the POWTS professional.”
My current county requires three year tank pumping and inspection.
The reason ground water contamination. (Your well and the neighbors)
Theres also an end of life mandatory replacement of septics, older than 50 years, at sale it must be replaced.
That three year inspection and pump is $150-$250. You get a reminder in the mail from the county. The septic pumper sends a document to the county.
“Every time a septic tank system is inspected, maintained, or serviced, a report must be submitted electronically to the Marathon County CPZ Department office by the POWTS professional on behalf of the property owner. Reports must be submitted within 30 days of completion. If maintenance is not reported on time, the CPZ Department will send a notice reminding the property owner that the legally required maintenance of the septic tank system is due and that the POWTS code requirements have not been met. Maintenance requirements will not be satisfied (and code violations will be in effect) until Marathon County receives the required completed report from the POWTS professional.”
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jar944
Well-known member
My county has a yearly inspection requirement and a suggested 3 year pump out schedule. The last inspection was $350.
That's crazy.
I can easily go 5-6 years on a pumping. Tank sized for a family of 5 and just 2 people in the house... plus 90% of the time I'm just home to eat and sleep... poop at work.
Take a piece of heavy plastic, 4 mil or heavier, completely cover the tank and then put a good layer of soil of it. Compact it well and plant grass. If it takes care of the issue, or not, you spent a little time and very little money.
You might want to put in a post so you can find the cover later.
You might want to put in a post so you can find the cover later.
Those guys with shallow tanks like the OP………are in no frost zones.
The new standard here is 5’ deep for tanks and lines with foam board on top before back fill.
Same for water well lines to the home.
As for the inspection interval………..it’s crazy until your neighbor Screws up your well water. Many of the these (older) systems are on 1 acre lots. The idea is catch the aging system before it cause a drinking water problem or near by lake or stream. New requirements are two acre minimum for septic. That’s also where the perk test results are used to determine which system going to be installed…….that’s where the “mound“ design came from.
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Water lines are 10ft here.
Bretny
Well-known member
Theres no news when the place isnt condemned though. The issue in that news report also says it's been leaking into neighbors backyards for 4 months.Jacksonville house condemned after leaking septic tank floods neighbors’ backyards
A family’s home has been condemned after its leaking septic tank left a smelly mess in neighbors’ yards.
quickfarms
Well-known member
The required debt his based on the frost debth.
under normal operation the water level must be kept below the frost debth so the top of the tank and access can be shallower
The deeper you bury it the more money it costs so the depth is based on the frost debth, the water table and the site grading and drainage. The goal is to put it deep enough that it works without spending extra money
in Southern California it is not uncommon to find the top of the old cesspools at grade. At my house we found the old cesspool because we were removing some junk concrete in the lawn between the house and pool. Since this was an old brick structure that was filled when they built the pool we simply removed the top couple of feet of the cone and filled the hole
under normal operation the water level must be kept below the frost debth so the top of the tank and access can be shallower
The deeper you bury it the more money it costs so the depth is based on the frost debth, the water table and the site grading and drainage. The goal is to put it deep enough that it works without spending extra money
in Southern California it is not uncommon to find the top of the old cesspools at grade. At my house we found the old cesspool because we were removing some junk concrete in the lawn between the house and pool. Since this was an old brick structure that was filled when they built the pool we simply removed the top couple of feet of the cone and filled the hole
dcg9381
Well-known member
I agree with this. It's an issue with your field filling up. The height issue (perhaps) is about the tank not being far enough above the field, so you're getting water into the tank. I've seen a similar problem with an older property when drainage changed and the yard started saturating - the tank itself was about at ground level and if the whole thing is water logged, nothing you can do. I think the only way to really resolve it is to go to a pressure based septic system, which is a total re-do.
Here we don't have a frost depth issue. My tank was actually put above the ground level, we filled "around" it to bring it up.. That might be another option, but there is no where for water to go if the ground is saturated.
Doesn't cost much more to dig it 10ft vs 5ft.
Maybe $30 of fuel, if that.
haveissues
Well-known member
Not around here. Our frost depth is 48" and lines are typically around 18-24" below grade.
Any tank I've dealt with in the northeast doesn't really get frost above it. Turns out all that bacterial activity generates a bit of heat!
Mine is about a foot down.
If the OP has standing water on top of the tank that's a grading issue. If nothing works when the ground is flooded, that's a field issue. If he has both issues then they should be addressed independently, as one won't solve the other.
OP
Hobby_Man22
Well-known member
The only time it is slow to flush is if we have a huge rain that floods out the entire lot and puts water over the lid. Any normal rainstorm it does just fine.
quickfarms
Well-known member
Then you need to do a topographic survey to find out why the lot is not draining and what is wrong with the grading
sjvicker
Well-known member
Hobby Man,
at this point I think a photo would be worth 1000 words. It sounds like your ground water is flowing to your lid, draining in and overwhelming the system briefly during heavy storms but otherwise you have a functioning system. In my head I'm imaging that your yard has a slight slope to it that funnels 1000's of sqft of surface water right to your lid.
if that's the case it may be as simple as throwing a 12" riser on it and filling around it with dirt to make a mound around your lid and keep surface water from getting in. Surface water will always get in but your goal here is to keep it from getting in faster than your drainfield can take care of it and the rainwater hitting the top of your field.
a cheap riser from Septic solutions and 10 yards of topsoil may solve the issues. If not, you're not out too much $ from the experiment.
at this point I think a photo would be worth 1000 words. It sounds like your ground water is flowing to your lid, draining in and overwhelming the system briefly during heavy storms but otherwise you have a functioning system. In my head I'm imaging that your yard has a slight slope to it that funnels 1000's of sqft of surface water right to your lid.
if that's the case it may be as simple as throwing a 12" riser on it and filling around it with dirt to make a mound around your lid and keep surface water from getting in. Surface water will always get in but your goal here is to keep it from getting in faster than your drainfield can take care of it and the rainwater hitting the top of your field.
a cheap riser from Septic solutions and 10 yards of topsoil may solve the issues. If not, you're not out too much $ from the experiment.
dcg9381
Well-known member
Depends on where you are. Here, it's gonna cost a LOT more..
True.Depends on where you are. Here, it's gonna cost a LOT more..
Have 3 large gravel pits within walking distance of my house.
It's a PITA to hand dig, but easy with excavator.
Planted a few small trees last week and had several softball to basketball sized rocks I had to pull out. Foot by a foot hole ended being 3x that type thing.
Both pits have ponds they "mined" gravel to 200+ ft deep.
Last one we shut down as there was concern of them ruining wells if they continued to disrupt the water tables.
haveissues
Well-known member
If your entire lot floods when it rains hard water covering your septic tank is not your only problem. Your leech field can not possible function when it is under water.