Rusty Bolt
Well-known member
This tale of woe is shared in the hope that it might save someone out there some pain. Those of you planning a service upgrade might find the steps interesting. Those of you into schadenfreude will enjoy it also
A few months ago, I posted a question on upgrading my meter main to 400A (really 320A). https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401572 The strong consensus was to replace my pedestal.
So, I decided to replace my pedestal. I know that dealing with the power company, any power company, can be a real PITA until you learn how do deal with them and I'm not going to ever do another panel upgrade, so my plan was to hire an electrician then I'd just write a check, take a nap, and when I woke up, my service would be upgraded.
Yeah, right, maybe in my dreams
The electric utility here is NV Energy. They subscribe to Euserc (Electic Utility Service Equipment Requirements Committee) though NV Energy isn't listed as a member on Euserc.org. The cheapskates must not pay their membership dues. It turns out that there are a lot of panels available that don't meet Euserrc requirements.
The electrician that I hired is licensed, insured, and experienced. He has recently done several new panels. Those jobs went smoothly.
The first issue was to find a pedestal. It's easy to spend $3K - $4K on a 400A pedestal. My electrician found a Milbank pedestal; 400A, meter socket, and 2x200A circuit breakers. It sounded perfect. I don't remember the cost but it was somewhere in the $1,500 range. That matched what one of the electricians that I talked to along the way said it would cost.
OK, with a new pedestal in hand, the next step was to schedule an AM-PM for NV Energy to come out in the morning, cut my power, pull out their old wire, then come back in the afternoon to pull new wire and connect to my new pedestal. I called because I have the permit and the electrician doesn't. I was expecting that to take about 6 weeks from the time I called to schedule it. When it was only about 4 weeks out, I thought had gotten lucky. Well maybe, I had gotten lucky, but it wasn't good luck.
Before the AM-PM, NV Energy comes out two or three times to look the job over, find their pull box in the junipers, verify their conduit size, and etc. One guy even asked to see the new pedestal. He looked at it but only checked to see that it was a 400A pedestal.
OK, the big day rolls around, I've got the electrician scheduled, the AM-PM scheduled, and the new equipment on hand. In the morning, NV Energy calls me and tells me the city needs to inspect the new pedestal before they connect to it. That normally wouldn't be a problem but I scheduled the AM-PM on Nevada Day. That explains why the date was open. It's a city holiday, so the building inspectors are off. I really didn't want to wait another 6 weeks for an AM-PM, so I managed to talk NV Energy into connecting my new service anyway, though as penance they reminded me about every 5 minutes that they weren't supposed to do that.
NV Energy comes over, drops my power, pulls the old wire and leaves a pull cord in the conduit. My electrician comes over, spends most of the day removing my old pedestal, putting the new pedestal in place, and doing the wiring on my side. We call NV Energy to pull the new wire and turn my electricity back on.
The NV Energy guys come out, take one look at the new pedestal (while reminding me that they're breaking the rules by reconnecting my power) and say "Oh Sh!t! We won't touch that with a 10 foot disconnect stick"! The pedestal didn't meet NV Energy's requirements for a bunch of things; meter too low (40 inches instead of 48 - the old pedestal was 36), no meter locking ring, insufficient isolation between the metered and unmetered wires, and maybe a couple of other things.
After some discussion and calling headquarters, they decide they can do a temporary connection with the understanding that my electrician would get an suitable panel real soon. So, NV Energy runs about 100 feet of wire across the ground(!) from their pull box to my pedestal. Essentially, my house is running on an extension cord.
It turns out that my electrician had mixed up the Milbank product number and gotten a non-Euserc approved panel, which he admits.
NV Energy comes out several times, to check on things; once with 3 people. They call me several times, I give them the electrician's phone number and I bug the electrician too..
My electrician spends a month or so researching alternatives. He finally comes up with a plan and finds suitable equipment. His plan is to get an approved meter socket on a new pedestal, mount that next to the pedestal he just put in (back to back) then drill holes in the back of the meter socket and run wires from the sealed NV Energy pull compartment to the pedestal that he already had. He'll use Unistrut to tie both pedestals to the concrete pad my original pedestal mounted to. Once the electricity gets onto my side it's my problem and not an NV Energy issue.
Being chagrined by the previous fiasco, my electrician sends the cut sheet of his chosen meter main, a Milbank U3548-X, to the inspector's supervisor at NV Energy. The supervisor approves the meter main. Some sellers list this as a Euserc approved panel (like Home Depot) but it's not.
OK, my electrician buys the meter main and spends most of a day to install the new meter main, makes a good looking install, connects the power, and calls the city for an inspection. My general contractor happens to be at the building department when the electrician calls. The city asks my contractor what's going on, so he call me. I tell him that the electrician finally has the new pedestal resolved. He's surprised that it's taken so long (~2 months) and convinces a building inspector to come out with him immediately. The building inspector likes the installation and gives me a blue tag.
Alright, we're on the home stretch, right? The electrician calls NV Energy to finish the service upgrade. The NV Energy inspector takes one look at the new pedestal and says he's not approving it.
Why not? Now would be a good time to look at the pictures and see if you can spot the problems.
One problem that becomes apparent is that the NV Energy inspector is unable to communicate. He seems like he's speaking clearly but it turns out he's a sloppy speaker and is misleading. Rumor has it that he has a reputation in the building department a being a jerk. I wonder how he got that?
So what didn't he like?
After at least two meetings with the inspector, spending hours reading the Euserc Diagram 301(?) I think I have a glimmer of what he was trying to say.
If you look at the panel busing, line and load are both at the bottom. The inspector refers to the bottom part of what I'd call a single sealed compartment as the "pull section" or "pull compartment" and refers to it as the NV Energy compartment. The top, above the meter he regards as a separate compartment. So, what he's demanding is that the unmetered wires enter at the bottom and land on the bottom of the meter socket. The metered wires have to land at the top of the metered socket and exit above the meter socket. IIRC, the Euserc requirement is that there be an "appropriate barrier" between the metered and unmetered wires. Evidently, the meter socket is an "appropriate barrier". Who knew?
I think the concern the inspector has is that someone could push, say an insulated screwdriver through one of the bottom knockouts in their pull section and effectively place a jumper between the metered and unmetered wires to steal power. That would be stupid and and dangerous but if they electrocuted themselves in the process, NV Energy would probably have a lawsuit on their hands.
If that's what their concerns really are, and I'm not sure that it is, a great deal of hassle could have been avoided if they'd only said so clearly.
NV Energy keeps encouraging me to get rid of the pedestal, dig up their conduit, make a right angle bend to my shop and mount a panel on my shop and then feed the house off of the shop. I don't want to do that because it seems less logical than a central pedestal feeding both buildings.
On his last visit, the inspector gave me a 7 day disconnect notice and said that as long as I could at least show an approved panel on order, they wouldn't disconnect me because they view me as an innocent homeowner.
As you might guess, the local NV Energy folks and my electrician don't think much of each other.
So, what's happening now? My electrician has identified an approved panel and the inspector agrees that it's OK. He's also doing an informal escalation via a high school buddy who is "fairly high up in NV Energy" whatever that means. Plan C, I'll buy a panel and replace it myself. Plan D would be to get a prescription for oxygen - that means they can't disconnect my power.
I need to tell my tenants about that so they quit transferring the electricity bill to me. 
A few months ago, I posted a question on upgrading my meter main to 400A (really 320A). https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401572 The strong consensus was to replace my pedestal.
So, I decided to replace my pedestal. I know that dealing with the power company, any power company, can be a real PITA until you learn how do deal with them and I'm not going to ever do another panel upgrade, so my plan was to hire an electrician then I'd just write a check, take a nap, and when I woke up, my service would be upgraded.
Yeah, right, maybe in my dreams
The electric utility here is NV Energy. They subscribe to Euserc (Electic Utility Service Equipment Requirements Committee) though NV Energy isn't listed as a member on Euserc.org. The cheapskates must not pay their membership dues. It turns out that there are a lot of panels available that don't meet Euserrc requirements.
The electrician that I hired is licensed, insured, and experienced. He has recently done several new panels. Those jobs went smoothly.
The first issue was to find a pedestal. It's easy to spend $3K - $4K on a 400A pedestal. My electrician found a Milbank pedestal; 400A, meter socket, and 2x200A circuit breakers. It sounded perfect. I don't remember the cost but it was somewhere in the $1,500 range. That matched what one of the electricians that I talked to along the way said it would cost.
OK, with a new pedestal in hand, the next step was to schedule an AM-PM for NV Energy to come out in the morning, cut my power, pull out their old wire, then come back in the afternoon to pull new wire and connect to my new pedestal. I called because I have the permit and the electrician doesn't. I was expecting that to take about 6 weeks from the time I called to schedule it. When it was only about 4 weeks out, I thought had gotten lucky. Well maybe, I had gotten lucky, but it wasn't good luck.
Before the AM-PM, NV Energy comes out two or three times to look the job over, find their pull box in the junipers, verify their conduit size, and etc. One guy even asked to see the new pedestal. He looked at it but only checked to see that it was a 400A pedestal.
OK, the big day rolls around, I've got the electrician scheduled, the AM-PM scheduled, and the new equipment on hand. In the morning, NV Energy calls me and tells me the city needs to inspect the new pedestal before they connect to it. That normally wouldn't be a problem but I scheduled the AM-PM on Nevada Day. That explains why the date was open. It's a city holiday, so the building inspectors are off. I really didn't want to wait another 6 weeks for an AM-PM, so I managed to talk NV Energy into connecting my new service anyway, though as penance they reminded me about every 5 minutes that they weren't supposed to do that.
NV Energy comes over, drops my power, pulls the old wire and leaves a pull cord in the conduit. My electrician comes over, spends most of the day removing my old pedestal, putting the new pedestal in place, and doing the wiring on my side. We call NV Energy to pull the new wire and turn my electricity back on.
The NV Energy guys come out, take one look at the new pedestal (while reminding me that they're breaking the rules by reconnecting my power) and say "Oh Sh!t! We won't touch that with a 10 foot disconnect stick"! The pedestal didn't meet NV Energy's requirements for a bunch of things; meter too low (40 inches instead of 48 - the old pedestal was 36), no meter locking ring, insufficient isolation between the metered and unmetered wires, and maybe a couple of other things.
After some discussion and calling headquarters, they decide they can do a temporary connection with the understanding that my electrician would get an suitable panel real soon. So, NV Energy runs about 100 feet of wire across the ground(!) from their pull box to my pedestal. Essentially, my house is running on an extension cord.
It turns out that my electrician had mixed up the Milbank product number and gotten a non-Euserc approved panel, which he admits.
NV Energy comes out several times, to check on things; once with 3 people. They call me several times, I give them the electrician's phone number and I bug the electrician too..
My electrician spends a month or so researching alternatives. He finally comes up with a plan and finds suitable equipment. His plan is to get an approved meter socket on a new pedestal, mount that next to the pedestal he just put in (back to back) then drill holes in the back of the meter socket and run wires from the sealed NV Energy pull compartment to the pedestal that he already had. He'll use Unistrut to tie both pedestals to the concrete pad my original pedestal mounted to. Once the electricity gets onto my side it's my problem and not an NV Energy issue.
Being chagrined by the previous fiasco, my electrician sends the cut sheet of his chosen meter main, a Milbank U3548-X, to the inspector's supervisor at NV Energy. The supervisor approves the meter main. Some sellers list this as a Euserc approved panel (like Home Depot) but it's not.
OK, my electrician buys the meter main and spends most of a day to install the new meter main, makes a good looking install, connects the power, and calls the city for an inspection. My general contractor happens to be at the building department when the electrician calls. The city asks my contractor what's going on, so he call me. I tell him that the electrician finally has the new pedestal resolved. He's surprised that it's taken so long (~2 months) and convinces a building inspector to come out with him immediately. The building inspector likes the installation and gives me a blue tag.
Alright, we're on the home stretch, right? The electrician calls NV Energy to finish the service upgrade. The NV Energy inspector takes one look at the new pedestal and says he's not approving it.
Why not? Now would be a good time to look at the pictures and see if you can spot the problems.
One problem that becomes apparent is that the NV Energy inspector is unable to communicate. He seems like he's speaking clearly but it turns out he's a sloppy speaker and is misleading. Rumor has it that he has a reputation in the building department a being a jerk. I wonder how he got that?
So what didn't he like?
- My neutral landing on their side. IIRC, Euserc just says it has to be easy to isolate my neutral from the power company neutral. Dual lugs look pretty easy to me but it's a trivial change
- Holes drilled in the back of their pull section to allow metered wires to make their way to my side
- Knockout removed in the bottom to connect temporary power.- Connecting the power is a big no-no. I wonder how many panel replacements NV Energy even learns about?
- My wire on their side. Q: How does electricity get from your side to mine, if there's no wire? A: You can't have any equipment on the NV Energy side. Q: OK, so how does the electricity get from your side to my side if I can't run a wire? Here's an approved panel passed by other NV Energy inspectors that has wire running from the NV Energy compartment to my side. What's different about my installation. And so on, and so on.
- Somebody could get into the NV Energy sealed compartment and steal power. Q: But if I break the seal and open the compartment, I can do whatever I want anyway. A: Somebody could steal power. Q: But don't those new smartmeters detect that? A: They're supposed to but we don't want anyone to be able to steal power. And so on, and so on.
After at least two meetings with the inspector, spending hours reading the Euserc Diagram 301(?) I think I have a glimmer of what he was trying to say.
If you look at the panel busing, line and load are both at the bottom. The inspector refers to the bottom part of what I'd call a single sealed compartment as the "pull section" or "pull compartment" and refers to it as the NV Energy compartment. The top, above the meter he regards as a separate compartment. So, what he's demanding is that the unmetered wires enter at the bottom and land on the bottom of the meter socket. The metered wires have to land at the top of the metered socket and exit above the meter socket. IIRC, the Euserc requirement is that there be an "appropriate barrier" between the metered and unmetered wires. Evidently, the meter socket is an "appropriate barrier". Who knew?
I think the concern the inspector has is that someone could push, say an insulated screwdriver through one of the bottom knockouts in their pull section and effectively place a jumper between the metered and unmetered wires to steal power. That would be stupid and and dangerous but if they electrocuted themselves in the process, NV Energy would probably have a lawsuit on their hands.
If that's what their concerns really are, and I'm not sure that it is, a great deal of hassle could have been avoided if they'd only said so clearly.
NV Energy keeps encouraging me to get rid of the pedestal, dig up their conduit, make a right angle bend to my shop and mount a panel on my shop and then feed the house off of the shop. I don't want to do that because it seems less logical than a central pedestal feeding both buildings.
On his last visit, the inspector gave me a 7 day disconnect notice and said that as long as I could at least show an approved panel on order, they wouldn't disconnect me because they view me as an innocent homeowner.
As you might guess, the local NV Energy folks and my electrician don't think much of each other.
So, what's happening now? My electrician has identified an approved panel and the inspector agrees that it's OK. He's also doing an informal escalation via a high school buddy who is "fairly high up in NV Energy" whatever that means. Plan C, I'll buy a panel and replace it myself. Plan D would be to get a prescription for oxygen - that means they can't disconnect my power.
I need to tell my tenants about that so they quit transferring the electricity bill to me. 
exactly
