To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Seven year itch is finally getting scratched

Workspaces between 705 and 1200 squarefeet.

nadogail

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
32,457
Location
Coronado, CA
We all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them.

To date I have survived all of mine and I find myself avoiding repeating some of my earlier ones; I am now on my way to making new mistakes.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dmittz

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
1,302
We all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them.

To date I have survived all of mine and I find myself avoiding repeating some of my earlier ones; I am now on my way to making new mistakes.
i've had a few 'accidents' while working on my shop. Happens to the best of us. Keep up the good work.
 

thammel

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
2,272
Location
Maryland
I bought tyvek suits when I insulated my garage. suit with hood, gloves,, glasses, dust mask, etc. Helped immensely.
 

Uncle murph

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Messages
1,530
Location
Harford county
Finally on to the part I've been really dreading.

IMG_6457.jpeg

Fortunately my F150 helped me keep an eye on the tall load.

IMG_6460.jpeg
I hate insulation as well but you are going to have a fantastic work space you’re done. I love these no compromise building projects,it’s got to be leaps and bounds over anything you could have purchased standing.
 

jcarapet

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
283
Location
Texas
Thanks for sharing the Polaris idea. I was playing around with using those for a multiple 50 amp run, but was worried they would all fit in a box even with extension. That and cost
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Thanks for sharing the Polaris idea. I was playing around with using those for a multiple 50 amp run, but was worried they would all fit in a box even with extension. That and cost
Yeah I'm happy with the end result. Be sure and get the smallest connector that will handle the wire size you're using- they all have a range of sizes they can accommodate and bigger is not better. These are 4-14 gauge compatible and are nice and small. There were only 5 of them in stock so my sixth one is for 2-14 gauge wire and is noticeably larger and doesn't provide any benefit. The 5 square box (4-11/16") was a good decision- it added a ton of volume and if you don't have the neutral wire in there, it should all fit in there nicely.
 

ybnormal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
5,002
looking good! two things I wanted to mention/suggest...

you said you were concerned about the weight of your toolboxes? use a pallet jack or toe-jack? why not just throw some 1" pipe under the box after moving with pallet jack? roll it back and forth sideways pulling them out as they get there. stick a wooden wedge on one end you can hammer out after getting one end on the floor, then use the toejack at the other end with wooden wedge.
1687031685362.png




I saw you put in radiant barrier. I don't know the local weather there but I had a lightning strike in a clear sky at night that started an attic fire. Fire dept showed up, put it out, and cause was found to be the radiant barrier attracting the lightning. yours looks exactly like the stuff we had installed. If you haven't done so, I would highly suggest making sure you have a lightning rod installed for the whole house electrical system.

1687032452020.png



edit: found a document, https://www.texasinspector.com/file...diant-Barrier-Materials-in-Fire-Causation.pdf
 
Last edited:
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
looking good! two things I wanted to mention/suggest...

you said you were concerned about the weight of your toolboxes? use a pallet jack or toe-jack? why not just throw some 1" pipe under the box after moving with pallet jack? roll it back and forth sideways pulling them out as they get there. stick a wooden wedge on one end you can hammer out after getting one end on the floor, then use the toejack at the other end with wooden wedge.
1687031685362.png




I saw you put in radiant barrier. I don't know the local weather there but I had a lightning strike in a clear sky at night that started an attic fire. Fire dept showed up, put it out, and cause was found to be the radiant barrier attracting the lightning. yours looks exactly like the stuff we had installed. If you haven't done so, I would highly suggest making sure you have a lightning rod installed for the whole house electrical system.

1687032452020.png



edit: found a document, https://www.texasinspector.com/file...diant-Barrier-Materials-in-Fire-Causation.pdf
Wow that’s quite the interesting phenomena. Having lived in central Texas for many years I’m not terribly surprised by the higher incidence of lightning strikes. I’m curious if an area like Tampa, Florida sees more house fires since I’m sure they use RBS as well and the area is well known for insanely high rates of lightning strikes.

I’m a bit disappointed that the paper didn’t reference any suggested mitigation strategies, given the widespread use of foil backed sheathing. I suppose a 4ga grounding wire in contact with the foil across the attic and down to a grounding rod would quickly discharge the current caused by a lightning strike. It seems the fire risk is caused by a high temperature spike on the foil against a combustible material (the sheathing that the foil is adhered to). With my installation here, the foil is only touching the rafters and top plate, so there is much less contact with combustible materials. The foil itself also serves as my vent channel to allow air into the attic, so there is no paper or foam added to the equation.

I will note that as far as I’m aware, every house built in Phoenix for the last several decades has used radiant barrier sheathing for the roof, including my home. I don’t know what a normal incidence of house fires is, but in 13 years I’ve only ever seen 2 houses burn in my area and I don’t know what the cause was for either.

Based on my circumstances I don’t think I’m at high risk, but taking preventative measures now is relatively cheap and certainly cheaper than replacing this building, should it burn. I’ve got two rolls of 6ga wire on hand that I could use- strip the insulation off and staple it to the rafters up one side of the attic (would be in continuous contact with the foil), down the other, over to the electrical panel, and down to one of the nearby grounding rods put in with the original house. Does that seem sensible to you all that know better than me?
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Fun weekend in the books. I hate insulation and I can’t wait to be done with it. Despite precautions I think my skin will be red and swollen for a week.

After a work trip this week I’ll have the changes inspected, install the last wall of insulation, then turn it over to the drywall guys. Inching toward the finish line.

IMG_6484.jpeg

IMG_6485.jpeg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Finished up the insulation over the weekend and I'm very happy to have this job behind me. The inspector came and signed off on the bracing and fire stops required on the west wall (garage door wall) so I could get it finished and ready for drywall. I had plenty of extra Rockwool, so I decided to double insulate the double wall- insulation against the sheathing, then an air gap, then foil radiant barrier across the entire wall, then another air gap, and finally the interior Rockwool layer. Since this will get the worst of the summer sun, I figured anything I could do to help keep out the heat would be worth the effort.

IMG_6498.jpeg

IMG_6501.jpeg

I asked in another thread about the viability of adding a foil backing to mineral wool insulation to give it both thermal and radiant blocking attributes, but the question I asked wasn't accurate. I wanted to know if the performance of 3.5" thick wool plus radiant barrier (and a ~1" air gap in the 2x6 walls) would provide a better result than buying 5-1/4" thick wool. The reason that question is not really relevant is that the thicker insulation was more than 3 times the price of the 3.5" thick stuff. I called around several places and got the same answer, so that was out of the equation since it would take a hundred years to make up the cost by electricity saved. So I decided the radiant barrier on the 2x4 wall Rockwool would work well. Lowes had it on sale 15% off which was a nice find, since nothing has been on sale for this project.

Step one was laying out the batts on a leftover piece of OSB with the foil barrier on a PVC pipe and a pair of rollers to make it easier to slide out. I sprayed three stripes of 3M 77 spray adhesive on the wool and with my sub 10% humidity it was ready to adhere to the foil immediately.

IMG_6481.jpeg

The stripe down the middle helped when I needed to cut the top or bottom of the batt off, and the rest of the foil wouldn't fall off. Rolling out the foil without it drooping down into the adhesive was a bit of a challenge, but wielding a ripped 2x4 made it work. Creasing the gaps between the batts with my board helped cutting them apart.

IMG_6482.jpeg


My snap blade Olfa knife was a good choice for cutting the foil- cutting aluminum is not easy on a cutting edge, so by having the snap blade extended out 2" or so would give it lots of edge area to dull before becoming useless.

IMG_6483.jpeg


Rinse and repeat for about 230 more batts.

After caulking the bottom plate, around the spray foam on the doors and windows to seal against air ingress and bug migration, I am ready for drywall. The blown cellulose wouldn't effectively get under my OSB platform in the attic, so I put some Rockwool under them and secured them with electrician's pull tape so they wouldn't fall before the drywall is mounted. I installed the extra pieces of R38 fiberglass that were left over from the 'hallway' insulation. I filled up 10 bags of insulation scraps and took care of tools and other stuff littering the garage, and now it's ready. It is eerily quiet in here now- hopefully the drywall will make noise bounce a little more because this stuff absorbs everything and feels really odd just walking around.

IMG_6525.jpeg

IMG_6527.jpeg


IMG_6517.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6524.jpeg
    IMG_6524.jpeg
    676.5 KB · Views: 8

ybnormal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
5,002
question: I see in the one wall pic where all your outlets are located. were you planning on building a workbench attached to the wall? if so, would it have been better to move the electrical outlets up a couple feet so the workbench is kept clear and all wall-wart chargers etc are kept up out of the way?

1688147173331.png
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
question: I see in the one wall pic where all your outlets are located. were you planning on building a workbench attached to the wall? if so, would it have been better to move the electrical outlets up a couple feet so the workbench is kept clear and all wall-wart chargers etc are kept up out of the way?

1688147173331.png
The photos can be a bit deceiving- the outlets are 48” off the floor. My doors are 8’ tall, so it makes the windows and outlet boxes look closer to the floor. That wall is for machinery- there are 3 outlets for 220v so I’ll have my mill, pantograph, and welder along that wall, with the lathe on the other long wall in the shop. My workbench will fit between the two largest window to the left of this photo’s perspective.
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
A flurry of activity over the weekend- drywall and stucco moving toward completion. We had our first truly hot week of the year, so I feel bad for these guys working in the heat, but they're not as miserable as I would be since I'm not used to being out in it. The final stucco coat went on when it was 115F.

IMG_6584.jpeg

IMG_6582.jpeg

IMG_6570.jpeg

IMG_6572.jpeg

IMG_6577.jpeg
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
The drywall crew got the texture applied and sanded, now it's back in my hands to get ready for paint. My intention was to paint it myself, but I really, really hate painting so I'm going to let the pros do it. To help reduce the expense, I'm cleaning up the drywall mess, masking everything up, and providing the materials. If everything goes to plan, I'll have a painted shop by tomorrow night and I can get the lights installed in time to return the scissor lift on Friday.

IMG_6607.jpeg

IMG_6609.jpeg

IMG_6617.jpeg
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
More (slow) progress. Painters did a good job given the circumstances.

IMG_6641.jpeg


IMG_6639.jpeg

Work distractions pulled me away for a few weeks but I finally got to installing the lights and discovered another planning failure. I installed regular ceiling boxes for the lights and it didn't occur to me that just about every strip light made now is about 2-1/2" wide which doesn't cover a 4" box. I was pretty irritated about that and debated my options- having the drywall guys come back, cut open around the boxes, patch over with just the romex sticking out of the ceiling, then have the painter come back and repaint the ceiling would have been the 'best' option in terms of finished product, but would be awfully expensive just so I don't have covers on the ceiling. It pained me to do something less-than-optimal, but I decided to just put covers on the boxes and then install the lights over them.

I went with a powdercoated steel cover that was easily available and quite cheap ($1.48 each) but they had a problem- there was a lip stamped around the edge. It makes sense for the typical application- if you use this to cover a box where you no longer want a light fixture, the lip helps make sure the cover sits flush against the ceiling and the cover doesn't turn into a taco. I wanted this to be as flat as possible, so I made a fixture in the lathe to cut off the lip.

IMG_6681.jpeg

Pretty simple setup- chunk of steel as a base with holes drilled and tapped to match the hole pattern of the cover, then a slightly undersized plate to hold the covers on and a hole in the middle so I can drill the wiring hole.

IMG_6680.jpeg


IMG_6685.jpeg


IMG_6686.jpeg

IMG_6688.jpeg

After painting with the leftover ceiling paint, it looks ok.

IMG_6690.jpeg
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
On to hanging the lights. I used a laser to make sure the mounting screws for each light were in the right place, and gutted one of the lights to use as a marking template. I used Toggler nylon self drilling anchors that do a good job biting drywall and are easy to use. 18 lights put up over the weekend- 162,000 lumens for 910 sq feet.

IMG_6743.jpeg

IMG_6744.jpeg

IMG_6745.jpeg

I was a bit concerned the light might be overwhelming in some circumstances so I alternated lights on two circuits. I put three way switches at the entry door and in the 'hallway' for convenience. I didn't want three and 4 gang boxes all over, so I used stacked switches which made it more annoying to wire, but the result is exactly what i wanted.

IMG_6742.jpeg

After another work trip this week, I'll keep installing outlets and switches for outside lights and then onto the trim work.
 

Homebody

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,348
Location
Northern Illinois
Great addition. Love it!
I'm still in the negotiation stage with the wifey on the new house we just bought and it's pathetic 20x 22 garage... :willy_nil
 
OP
T

TXNinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Looking good. How is this process of working in this heat... You got some air going on in there?
Yeah I purposefully wired the new AC into the old panel so that no matter what stage the new shop is in, the AC could be running. I waited until the lights were wired and everything checked out ok before insulating the attic, so once I get that done next week it will be an ice box if I want.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom