shallow socket height comparison

[herfalerf]

ive looked and the closest thing I have found to a side by side comparison of socket height and overall dimensions was in the koken thread comparing the zeal sockets to a few others. has anyone out there ever done a comparison with pictures showing a wide variety of sockets right next to each other? looking to replace my current 1/4 sockets which are too tall imo and would like to see what is out there.

 

[Sal Bandini]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2035083

 

[PureLeaf]

Can't comment on 1/4 sizes. Not a drive size I really ever use in most of my automotive work.

I own the 3/8's Koken Zeal socket set and have yet to be able to use them because each job I'd like to use them on, they're actually too shallow. I kind of regret buying them because of this. They are beautifully made, and I've no doubt if they were regular sized, I'd use them all the time.

Here are my Koken Zeals in 10 MM and 12 MM compared with Craftsman USA and Wright USA sockets.

View media item 48986
View media item 48987
View media item 48988
View media item 48989

 

[Adam.C]

I think the snap on profile sockets are lower than 1/4" drive

 

[PureLeaf]

Heres the comparison someone did a while go on the snap on low profile vs Koken zeal.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106383&page=6

Quote from user Superautobacs, "It may not be obvious, but the Snap-On low profile sockets are dedicated for their own low profile ratchet. The sockets will not fit on a standard 3/8" square drive as the broaching is too shallow. The Ko-ken sockets on the other hand are interchangeable with any standard 3/8" square. Likewise, unlike the Snap-On low profile ratchet, the Ko-ken ratchet will fit any standard 3/8" drive socket."

 

[dede2897234]

Can't comment on 1/4 sizes. Not a drive size I really ever use in most of my automotive work.

I own the 3/8's Koken Zeal socket set and have yet to be able to use them because each job I'd like to use them on, they're actually too shallow. I kind of regret buying them because of this. They are beautifully made, and I've no doubt if they were regular sized, I'd use them all the time.

Here are my Koken Zeals in 10 MM and 12 MM compared with Craftsman USA and Wright USA sockets.

View media item 48986
View media item 48987
View media item 48988
View media item 48989

PureLeaf,

I think you're the first person on this forum that has mentioned the Ko-ken Zeal sockets being too shallow. I have been regularly following the "Tools of Japan" thread.

Would it be possible for you to take some pictures showing the specific Zeal sockets and automotive fasteners that were incompatible with them?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[Adam.C]

Here is a comparison of the Snap On offerings:
View media item 49460These are all 13mm sockets, a size I use often. Left to right:
1/2" Drive shallow 38.25mm
3/8" drive semi deep 41.40mm
1/4" drive semi deep 41.80mm
3/8" drive shallow 24.70mm
1/4" drive shallow 22.40mm
3/8" low profile 18.70mm

While the heights of the sockets are important, what really matters most is the height of the socket and the ratchet combined.

View media item 49458
I placed each of the above sockets on comparable Snap On ratchets.
Left to right:
SKF80 (same height as all S80 ratchets)
FHL(D)F80 (soft handle replaced with hard, same height as all F80 ratchets)
THLD72 (same height as all T72 ratchets)
FHD80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
FK80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
T72
RATF80 (specialty low profile ratchet).

View media item 49459In height order from lowest to tallest, this time right to left:
Snap On low profile set 30.20mm
Std 1/4" drive shallow with 1/4" dr. shallow socket 33.50
Std 3/8" drive ratchet with low profile socket fitted 35.80mm (.09" bigger than 1/4", .145" thinner than std 3/8")
Std 3/8" drive with 3/8" shallow socket 39.50mm
Semi deeps:
Std 1/4" dr ratchet with 1/4" semi deep socket 43.25
Std 3/8" dr ratchet with 3/8" semi deep socket 56.25
Shallow 1/2" drive:
Std 1/2" drive with 1/2" shallow socket 58.50

Note that not only is the RATF80 ratchet thinner than a std 3/8" ratchet, the low profile sockets sit lower on the specially designed ratchet (see below).

View media item 49457
Just reviewing the numbers, the low profile is super skinny. But I could see using the low profile sockets on the longer and more comfortable std F80 ratchet handles. In this case, I get about the same clearance I would get with 1/4" drive.

I'm not sure I'm in love with the low profile sockets. I find them usable. But when space is an issue, I have other alternatives. I use a lot of 1/4" drive. I think guys are afraid of it, but the Snap On ratchets are rated to 90ftlbs, providing plenty of grunt, more than I can produce on short handles. Ratcheting box wrenches are the other alternative. I think what I don't like about my lo pro set is the popsicle stick handle on the ratchet. If snap on made a longer flex head ratchet for this set, I'd probably use it more.

 

[dede2897234]

Adam C,

Thanks for writing up the Snap-on socket height comparison thread article. It was very informative!


Dave

 

[SantaAna12]

Adam C,

Thanks for writing up the Snap-on socket height comparison thread article. It was very informative!


^^^+1.

 

[superautobacs]

Adam C,

Awesome, thanks for that!




Here's something I did in the past:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3958389&postcount=137

I recently got my first taste of Zeal 1/4" drive socketry items to try out. I got a PH2 and PH3 bit socket and a 10mm socket to try out.

I was already aware from the specs that the Zeal 1/4" shallow sockets were very small, but when you actually see it on your hand you can truly appreciate its small stature.

So, I decided to compare it with most of my other 10mm sized sockets that I have in 1/4" drive.




Dimensional comparisons:

1/4" drive

Then I decided to gather the 3/8" drive 10mm sockets as well for comparison.
3/8" drive:

Here they are all lined up.

3/8" on the left and 1/4" drive on the right:

1/4" drive on the front and 3/8" on the background:

A feature that's unique only to Ko-ken's Zeal product line.
This detent profile allows for the most positive and play-free engagement. Nothing I've handled compares to these.

Just another example of Zeal's unique features.

Some more comparison shots I've found on the net:


3/8" drive　10mm: Zeal / KTC / Snap-on

3/8" drive　10mm: KTC / Nepros / Zeal / Snap-on

3/8" drive　10mm: Nepros / Hazet / Dean

3/8" drive　8mm: Snap-on / Stahlwille / KTC / Nepros / Hazet / Ko-ken / Signet

 

[dede2897234]

superautobacs,

Thanks for your great post!

Since last year, have your purchased any other Ko-ken Zeal sockets besides the 10mm?

If yes, have you encountered problems using the sockets during automotive work because they were too shallow?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[sk farmer]

just think how much thinner the setup would be with some ratchet that didn't have to be so thick.

 

[superautobacs]

superautobacs,

Thanks for your great post!

Since last year, have your purchased any other Ko-ken Zeal sockets besides the 10mm?

If yes, have you encountered problems using the sockets during automotive work because they were too shallow?


Thanks,

Dave

No, I haven't. Truthfully, at this moment, I can only recall one instance where I had to switch from my go-to 10mm, 1/4 drive nut-grip socket to my Zeal socket due to the lack of clearance. Oh, one other time it came to use was in combination with a universal joint. The combination of the low-profile socket and universal was the perfect length for the situation.

Wait, that doesn't answer your question....
An issue that arises with shallow sockets is when driving nuts. With nuts, there's the chance that the bolt protruding past the nut will dead-head against the ratchet's drive square or bottom-out, without getting the socket to engage the nut. There are no issues with using these sockets to drive bolt heads, of course (nothing protruding).

 

[Adam.C]

3/8" drive　10mm: KTC / Nepros / Zeal / Snap-on

Just a note of clarification. The Snap On socket shown above is a normal shallow 3/8" drive socket. The Snap On low profile sockets are lower than the Koken Zeal socket, measuring roughly 18mm vs 20mm for the Koken. The Snap Ons also don't have the super low broach of the Zeal, making them slightly more usable. The difference lies in the drive end. Koken's Zeal sockets are designed to be used with any normal 3/8" ratchet or drive tool. The Snap On low profile sockets have shorter drive sides (as I tried to show above). When used with the specialty ratchet, the Snap On system provides a lower height solution. But when used on a normal ratchet, the Snap On is probably a bit taller.

No conclusion or recommendations from me. Just a note to highlight that these two socket systems, the Koken Zeal and the Snap On low profile achieve their reduced heights differently. One may work better than the other in particular situation.

 

[superautobacs]

Just a note of clarification. The Snap On socket shown above is a normal shallow 3/8" drive socket. The Snap On low profile sockets are lower than the Koken Zeal socket, measuring roughly 18mm vs 20mm for the Koken. The Snap Ons also don't have the super low broach of the Zeal, making them slightly more usable. The difference lies in the drive end. Koken's Zeal sockets are designed to be used with any normal 3/8" ratchet or drive tool. The Snap On low profile sockets have shorter drive sides (as I tried to show above). When used with the specialty ratchet, the Snap On system provides a lower height solution. But when used on a normal ratchet, the Snap On is probably a bit taller.

No conclusion or recommendations from me. Just a note to highlight that these two socket systems, the Koken Zeal and the Snap On low profile achieve their reduced heights differently. One may work better than the other in particular situation.

 

[abvw]

Don't forget there's a 1/4" Snap-on low profile as well that uses a pass through design.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Just to add, you can absolutely use snap-on low-profile sockets on regular ratchets. I did so several times today. The low-profile ratchet is nice to have, but sometimes it's too low profile. Mix and match extensions, deeps, shallows, semi-deeps, low profile, and ratchet choice to get the exact depth you want.

 

[superautobacs]

Don't forget there's a 1/4" Snap-on low profile as well that uses a pass through design.

That's right. The cool thing about those is that it actually accepts 1/4" square drive tools to make it a versatile system.

 

[abvw]

That's right. The cool thing about those is that it actually accepts 1/4" square drive tools to make it a versatile system.

They do?! My dealer carries the 3/8" but never saw the 1/4" set.

 

[Adam.C]

That's right. The cool thing about those is that it actually accepts 1/4" square drive tools to make it a versatile system.

I don't have them and didn't know that. I think they are 11mm hex on the outside which means you can fit them in your worthless 11mm ratchet wrenches.

 

[abvw]

Here's another way to achieve low profile. Snipe it!

Toyota V6 3.3L transmission pan (left rear corner bolt, sitting less than 1" off the subframe):

Snap-on universal:
https://scontent-ord.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11109430_10203005530572844_6225010689223424739_n.jpg?oh=c69f99a86edde9afb242c52374dcda25&oe=55B23C30

Titan/GearWrench/Made in Taiwan universal:

 

[dede2897234]

Here's another way to achieve low profile. Snipe it!

Toyota V6 3.3L transmission pan (left rear corner bolt, sitting less than 1" off the subframe):

Snap-on universal:
https://scontent-ord.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11109430_10203005530572844_6225010689223424739_n.jpg?oh=c69f99a86edde9afb242c52374dcda25&oe=55B23C30


abvw,

I own several Snap-on universal sockets. Thanks for posting the above picture. When I come up with a sticky automotive repair situation like above, those Snap-on universals will come in handy.


Thanks,

Dave

 

[superautobacs]

Here's the Snap-on low-profile socket with the 1/4" drive I was talking about. The Nepros socket is there to show the height comparison.

 

[franzdom]

I have the Snap-On 1/4" low profile metric set and it's really saved my **** a couple times.

 

[Qualitytools]

I recently used my 3/8 Koken ZEAL socket set on various projects on my 15 year old BMW and they were GREAT! I fell in love with these sockets

 

[gjusername]

Here is a comparison of the Snap On offerings:
View media item 49460These are all 13mm sockets, a size I use often. Left to right:
1/2" Drive shallow 38.25mm
3/8" drive semi deep 41.40mm
1/4" drive semi deep 41.80mm
3/8" drive shallow 24.70mm
1/4" drive shallow 22.40mm
3/8" low profile 18.70mm

While the heights of the sockets are important, what really matters most is the height of the socket and the ratchet combined.

View media item 49458
I placed each of the above sockets on comparable Snap On ratchets.
Left to right:
SKF80 (same height as all S80 ratchets)
FHL(D)F80 (soft handle replaced with hard, same height as all F80 ratchets)
THLD72 (same height as all T72 ratchets)
FHD80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
FK80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
T72
RATF80 (specialty low profile ratchet).

View media item 49459In height order from lowest to tallest, this time right to left:
Snap On low profile set 30.20mm
Std 1/4" drive shallow with 1/4" dr. shallow socket 33.50
Std 3/8" drive ratchet with low profile socket fitted 35.80mm (.09" bigger than 1/4", .145" thinner than std 3/8")
Std 3/8" drive with 3/8" shallow socket 39.50mm
Semi deeps:
Std 1/4" dr ratchet with 1/4" semi deep socket 43.25
Std 3/8" dr ratchet with 3/8" semi deep socket 56.25
Shallow 1/2" drive:
Std 1/2" drive with 1/2" shallow socket 58.50

Note that not only is the RATF80 ratchet thinner than a std 3/8" ratchet, the low profile sockets sit lower on the specially designed ratchet (see below).

View media item 49457
Just reviewing the numbers, the low profile is super skinny. But I could see using the low profile sockets on the longer and more comfortable std F80 ratchet handles. In this case, I get about the same clearance I would get with 1/4" drive.

I'm not sure I'm in love with the low profile sockets. I find them usable. But when space is an issue, I have other alternatives. I use a lot of 1/4" drive. I think guys are afraid of it, but the Snap On ratchets are rated to 90ftlbs, providing plenty of grunt, more than I can produce on short handles. Ratcheting box wrenches are the other alternative. I think what I don't like about my lo pro set is the popsicle stick handle on the ratchet. If snap on made a longer flex head ratchet for this set, I'd probably use it more.

do you still have these photos backed up somewhere? they don't seem to be working anymore

 

[AEAdam]

Necro-post ressurected as requested.

Here is a comparison of the Snap On offerings:
These are all 13mm sockets, a size I use often.

Left to right:
1/2" Drive shallow 38.25mm
3/8" drive semi deep 41.40mm
1/4" drive semi deep 41.80mm
3/8" drive shallow 24.70mm
1/4" drive shallow 22.40mm
3/8" low profile 18.70mm

While the heights of the sockets are important, what really matters most is the height of the socket and the ratchet combined.
I placed each of the above sockets on comparable Snap On ratchets.

Left to right:
SKF80 (same height as all S80 ratchets)
FHL(D)F80 (soft handle replaced with hard, same height as all F80 ratchets)
THLD72 (same height as all T72 ratchets)
FHD80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
FK80 (Same height as all F80 ratchets)
T72
RATF80 (specialty low profile ratchet).



In height order from lowest to tallest, this time right to left:
Snap On low profile set 30.20mm
Std 1/4" drive shallow with 1/4" dr. shallow socket 33.50
Std 3/8" drive ratchet with low profile socket fitted 35.80mm (.09" bigger than 1/4", .145" thinner than std 3/8")
Std 3/8" drive with 3/8" shallow socket 39.50mm
Semi deeps:
Std 1/4" dr ratchet with 1/4" semi deep socket 43.25
Std 3/8" dr ratchet with 3/8" semi deep socket 56.25
Shallow 1/2" drive:
Std 1/2" drive with 1/2" shallow socket 58.50

Note that not only is the RATF80 ratchet thinner than a std 3/8" ratchet, the low profile sockets sit lower on the specially designed ratchet (see below).




Just reviewing the numbers, the low profile is super skinny. But I could see using the low profile sockets on the longer and more comfortable std F80 ratchet handles. In this case, I get about the same clearance I would get with 1/4" drive.

I'm not sure I'm in love with the low profile sockets. I find them usable. But when space is an issue, I have other alternatives. I use a lot of 1/4" drive. I think guys are afraid of it, but the Snap On ratchets are rated to 90ftlbs, providing plenty of grunt, more than I can produce on short handles. Ratcheting box wrenches are the other alternative. I think what I don't like about my lo pro set is the popsicle stick handle on the ratchet. If snap on made a longer flex head ratchet for this set, I'd probably use it more.