Shed gas line

[fishspike57]

I trenched 1 inch pex to my pole shed for gas. went under and brought it inside. My question is I have enough left to go up in the attic and to the heater for that connection. I know I need to use galvanized pipe at the heater. Can I continue the pex or do I need to go to copper as soon as I got inside. Hopefully this makes sense. Thanks

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Re: Gas Pex

What exactly did you use Pex, Pex-Al-Pex or HDPE?

Also, you don't use galvanized or copper for natural gas.

Tommy

 

[Fixed]

Re: Gas Pex

What exactly did you use Pex, Pex-Al-Pex or HDPE?

Also, you don't use galvanized or copper for natural gas.

Tommy

You definitely don't use galv, but in some areas flexible copper is the norm for natural gas.

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[LS6 Tommy]

Re: Gas Pex

You definitely don't use galv, but in some areas flexible copper is the norm for natural gas.

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Not around here, especially for pilot burner lines. They have to be aluminum.

Tommy

 

[Fixed]

Re: Gas Pex

Not around here, especially for pilot burner lines. They have to be aluminum.



Tommy

Fair enough, but I have no idea what the code says in WI, where OP is located.

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[86turbodsl]

Re: Gas Pex

Gas pex is yellow, and always transitions to metal before it exits the ground. There are special connections for this. You use whatever your local code official wants to see, sometimes its black iron, sometimes it's copper. check with them.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Re: Gas Pex

Again, I'd like to know if the OP has Pex-Al-Pex, HDPE/MDPE or Pex. AFAIK, Pex is not allowable for natural gas. The "yellow Pex" normally used for direct burial gas service is not Pex. It's HDPE/MDPE and is only used for direct burial. Pex-Al-Pex is used for above ground.

Tommy

 

[MrSurly]

Gas Pex

In my area, you are not allowed to “come up inside” the building or wall. Underground gas supply MUST transition to metal before surfacing and MUST be out side the building. Penetration into the building must be above grade and accessible. The underground yellow hope is not allowed to be used above ground or in the building, either. The underground plastic pipe also must have a tracer wire run along with it. (Not mentioned in the post).
From the sound of it, O.P. Is making some significant no-nos with the ‘wing it’ approach.
Not that I haven’t had to learn the same way, before.


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[MrSurly]

Gas Pex

I mean seriously, you’re hitting about 0 for 10, here.
Pex for gas. NO
Pex underground. NO
No Tracer wire. NO
No metal risers. NO
Continuous underground and into structure. NO
Piped underground into structure. NO
Plans for galvanized. NO
Plan for copper. NO.

I’m no expert but I did want to do similar a while back. I had almost exactly your plan... then I asked around some, was directed to the code requirements and and a bunch of Googling (and talking to plumbers while getting bids) later, discovered that there was a lot more to it than I imagined.
The point is not ultimately about meeting code or deciding what codes apply.... it’s truly first about safety. Gas needs to be done right to be safe for you and yours.



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[The Cobbler]

Re: Gas Pex

I agree mostly with the others here. except copper & gas can be used in some areas, depends on the sulpher content I believe.
but pex is not rated for gas.
I bet your transition needs to be pipe & outside
and so on...

 

[fishspike57]

Re: Gas Pex

I'm not sure or home to check. Went to a local plumber told him what I needed and he gave it to me. Sorry

 

[jeepxj]

Re: Gas Pex

a plumber gave you pex to use for gas inside a house?

 

[Showkey]

Re: Gas Pex

a plumber gave you pex to use for gas inside a house?

Post #11 already said he is not sure so Not enough info so far .........but it might be a product like this:

The HOME-FLEX Underground 1 in. x 100 ft. Pipe is made specifically for medium to large jobs. Easy to work with and attach directly to our couplings or transition fittings for a simple application.
IPS size (Iron Pipe Size)
1/2 in. IPS size, 1/2 in. is DR 9.3; 3/4 in. and 1 in. are DR 11
Medium density polyethylene (MDPE) construction
Approved for direct burial in accordance with your local plumbing / building codes
Only for Underground use
For use with HOME-FLEX Underground fittings
Much lighter than and longer lasting than steel pipe
Durable polyethylene will last for years and years

 

[MrSurly]

Re: Gas Pex

Not enough info but the title and statement certainly raise questions. I’m hoping that he actually used the correct pipe and laid a tracer wire. If so, he won’t need to start over, only do enough digging to install the transitions.



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[fishspike57]

Re: Gas Pex

Yep installed wire and will do the correct couplings in spring. Sorry if I didn't get all the info in first post. I meant iron and not galvanized. In Wi we can use copper.

 

[MrSurly]

Gas Pex

Yep installed wire and will do the correct couplings in spring. Sorry if I didn't get all the info in first post. I meant iron and not galvanized. In Wi we can use copper.

I’m curious about the markings on the pipe you have, could you post a pic of it?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Re: Gas Pex

This post brings up a lot of thoughts for me.

To the OP....I'm worried that you seem to have very little knowledge of how to do what you want to do here. You would be better off hiring someone that would make sure your job gets done right as:

1. If you do this wrong it could result in a leak that might lead to a fire or explosion.
2. If you do this wrong, even if you get it to work (sort of), it may lead to problems with resale of your property in the future when an inspector who does know how this is supposed to be done looks at it.
3. If you do this wrong and your gas provider becomes aware of it, they will be obliged to discontinue service to your property until it's all cut loose and made safe.

The "PEX" underground part is what is the most disturbing. PEX isn't allowed for gas, period end of story.

Phil

 

[MrSurly]

Re: Gas Pex

The O.P. contacted me by PM (I'm not clear exactly why, but I'm glad he did!) Anyway, the pipe he trenched is correct and he did lay the tracer wire with it. It's HDPE
I linked him to the transitions and unions required.
I expect he'll get it sorted correctly, now.

 

[fishspike57]

Re: Gas Pex

Thanks not sure it went that way. Checking your message now

 

[MrSurly]

Re: Gas Pex

Thanks not sure it went that way. Checking your message now

Sorry for the botched reply. My PM reply apparently did not go through. I am re-sending in a moment.


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[MrSurly]

Gas Pex

Thanks not sure it went that way. Checking your message now

For some reason, my PMs that I’m trying to send are not sending... just gone.
So anyway, for your pipe you’re going to need two of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-F...EC-_-mobileweb_navplp_rr-_-NA-_-300867556-_-N

AND two of these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-F...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-300867556-_-300867551-_-N

I need to do exactly the same thing at my place.



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[RPH]

Re: Gas Pex

Here in the north Detriot the gas company uses galvanized pipe in there installations. So there is some made for this use.

 

[D45]

Re: Gas Pex

Yellow poly is so easy to work with

The push to lock connectors and metal transitions are good stuff

I used yellow poly for my patio grill a few years ago, ordered it all online

You will need a chamfer tool

 

[MrSurly]

Re: Gas Pex

I know that Fishspike57 may have started this thread a bit awkwardly and his wording likely left the impression that he was not equipped for or serious about his project. For peace of mind, take a look at his "SHED"
I think he's being a bit modest.

 

[k-os]

Re: Gas Pex

For some reason, my PMs that I’m trying to send are not sending... just gone.
So anyway, for your pipe you’re going to need two of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-F...EC-_-mobileweb_navplp_rr-_-NA-_-300867556-_-N

AND two of these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-F...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-300867556-_-300867551-_-N

I need to do exactly the same thing at my place.



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Thanks for posting those links. I'll need to do the same for getting gas from my meter to my garage.

 

[D45]

Re: Gas Pex

https://hdpesupply.com/

I ordered everything from this business

Was only $178 shipped for a Constab coupling, 90 degree Constab coupling, 20 feet of yellow poly, a chamfer tool, a riser, and a straight transition

 

[fishspike57]

Re: Gas Pex

Thanks. Trying to do things right but sometimes not using the right lingo causes a lt of confusion. Sorry and thanks I will have more question as I progress in the inside.

 

[tricountytrail]

Re: Gas Pex

What is the standard method the professionals use when using poly under ground when they have to connect to the risers (which transition from under ground to above) do they use these connectors or use a fusion welder? To my understanding the riser in OUTSIDE the building then enters with steel pipe is this correct?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Re: Gas Pex

Thanks. Trying to do things right but sometimes not using the right lingo causes a lt of confusion. Sorry and thanks I will have more question as I progress in the inside.

If you want to change the title of this thread to prevent future confusion, send me a PM, I can change it easily.

EDIT: Title changed as requested.

 

[MrSurly]

What is the standard method the professionals use when using poly under ground when they have to connect to the risers (which transition from under ground to above) do they use these connectors or use a fusion welder? To my understanding the riser in OUTSIDE the building then enters with steel pipe is this correct?

I’m NOT a pro. From my discussion with pros and also code inspectors, the transition to metal must occur underground and the riser MUST come up OUTside the building. Gas line penetration into the building MUST be above ground and external to the building (can’t surface in a crawl space or basement.)


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[tricountytrail]

I’m NOT a pro. From my discussion with pros and also code inspectors, the transition to metal must occur underground and the riser MUST come up OUTside the building. Gas line penetration into the building MUST be above ground and external to the building (can’t surface in a crawl space or basement.)


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Thank you 14 gauge tracer wire and burial tape 12" above also in my area.

 

[Jim greengo]

Re: Gas Pex

Here in the north Detriot the gas company uses galvanized pipe in there installations. So there is some made for this use.

They used to ***** about galvanizing flaking off inside of gas lines around here also,last I heard is the gas co now says that screens in gas valves will catch it so they arent worried .

 

[Jim greengo]

I’m NOT a pro. From my discussion with pros and also code inspectors, the transition to metal must occur underground and the riser MUST come up OUTside the building. Gas line penetration into the building MUST be above ground and external to the building (can’t surface in a crawl space or basement.)


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There's still plenty of old gas services in Omaha area coming in through side walls into basement,with meter in basement.
They're gradually changing them out,but they will still be around for a while.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Re: Gas Pex

What is the standard method the professionals use when using poly under ground when they have to connect to the risers (which transition from under ground to above) do they use these connectors or use a fusion welder? To my understanding the riser in OUTSIDE the building then enters with steel pipe is this correct?

The gold standard for connecting polyethylene is heat fusion. There are several methods which can be used:

**** fusion - ends of pipe are faced flat, melted with a heater and then brought together to "weld" pipe ends together.

Socket Fusion - A PE coupling is used. The end of the pipe and the coupling are heating to molten with a heater, pressed together and allowed to cool. Repeat for other side of coupling.

Electrofusion - The pipe ends are prepared by scraping or peeling, a coupling with a built in heater coil is placed between the two pipe ends, plugged into a special box, and that box ramps DC current into the fitting to cause it to melt itself and the pipe ends and then it is allowed to cool.

IMHO fusion is superior to any sort of stab fitting, especially if that stab fitting has o-rings in it, as they may fail sometime in the future.

When gas companies lay mains and install services, typically they are going to fuse almost all connections using one of the 3 methods above.

Normally risers are installed outside the building. Old systems often had gas meters inside...but that's becoming pretty rare these days.

I should note that the commercially available anodeless service risers consist of a short piece of PE that is fused to your underground line, enters a sweeping shield and is connected to a vertical piece of threaded steel via a compression joint inside the shield after it comes above ground. This is so if the shield leaks water eventually...it cannot rust out the steel section of carrier pipe, as that pipe does not extend underground.

This is considered to be "better" than the older method of transitioning to steel underground and then bending that steel upwards and threading the end to accomplish the same thing as the service riser accomplishes....BUT can leave a piece of steel underground to rust unless it is protected by an anode.

Phil

 

[tricountytrail]

Re: Gas Pex

The gold standard for connecting polyethylene is heat fusion. There are several methods which can be used:

**** fusion - ends of pipe are faced flat, melted with a heater and then brought together to "weld" pipe ends together.

Socket Fusion - A PE coupling is used. The end of the pipe and the coupling are heating to molten with a heater, pressed together and allowed to cool. Repeat for other side of coupling.

Electrofusion - The pipe ends are prepared by scraping or peeling, a coupling with a built in heater coil is placed between the two pipe ends, plugged into a special box, and that box ramps DC current into the fitting to cause it to melt itself and the pipe ends and then it is allowed to cool.

IMHO fusion is superior to any sort of stab fitting, especially if that stab fitting has o-rings in it, as they may fail sometime in the future.

When gas companies lay mains and install services, typically they are going to fuse almost all connections using one of the 3 methods above.

Normally risers are installed outside the building. Old systems often had gas meters inside...but that's becoming pretty rare these days.

I should note that the commercially available anodeless service risers consist of a short piece of PE that is fused to your underground line, enters a sweeping shield and is connected to a vertical piece of threaded steel via a compression joint inside the shield after it comes above ground. This is so if the shield leaks water eventually...it cannot rust out the steel section of carrier pipe, as that pipe does not extend underground.

This is considered to be "better" than the older method of transitioning to steel underground and then bending that steel upwards and threading the end to accomplish the same thing as the service riser accomplishes....BUT can leave a piece of steel underground to rust unless it is protected by an anode.

Phil

Thanks Phil!

 

[D45]

The Constab fittings with the chamfer tool is cake to use

Literally a push to lock style fitting

 

[Skiff Builder]

Re: Gas Pex

What exactly did you use Pex, Pex-Al-Pex or HDPE?

Also, you don't use galvanized or copper for natural gas.

Tommy

Tommy,
After Storm Sandy,down the shore, all our towns nat gas meters were re piped with galvanized. All piping from meter to furnace/boilers on new builds also.
Don't know if the galvanizing process is different ???