Sheetmetal (Tin) snips 101

[Outlawmws]

Been thinking about doing this for a while, and another thread got me part way there. Maybe this will be worthy of a spot in the sticky thread

What makes a good tin snip? And what type is used for what?


Once upon a time Wiss made outstanding snips, and were pretty much the industry standard for tin benders. There were other good snips, (Malco, Pexto, etc) but Wiss had an edge.

The deal was that you have two requirements: Hard blade edges and a tough handle that would neither break or bend.

Wiss inlaid a hardened steel insert into their handle so the edge stayed sharp longer, and was less likely to chip, flake or otherwise degrade.

The handles were tough and unlikely to break.

If you pick up an older set of Wiss bench snips, you can actually see the inlay (look for the dark straight line shadow on the flat side):

Regular Bench snips are for straight cutting generally (any curved cutting is difficult and usually less than optimal)

The sizes sometimes marked are for the handle length, not the overall length, so a "9" has 9" handles. (Unlike how Pliers are sized)

Bench snips show from bottom to top: 9" inlaid, 10" inlaid, 10" inlaid long blade, and a set of 14" "Specials" for "Alloy" metals and SS.

Lighter snips are made using aluminum alloy with bolted in inlaid blades. Malco makes these in at least 2 sizes, the larger "Andy" is show below with 12" handles. (Not sure Malco uses the handle length for size..)

Duckbill snips (Two sizes shown) allow for some curved cutting but not a real tight curve.

Generally the smaller the snips the lighter the materials they will cut.

For cutting tighter curves Aviation snips are used. these are smaller and have smaller jaws, and by using a compound action in the grips, can cut heavier materials for their size. The compound action is so good that someone with strong hands can spring the jaws if cutting too heavy or tough of material is attempted.

I believe MetalMaster was one of, if not the first maker of aviation snips, and was later bought by Wiss. (I have an old pair of MM (Pre plastic grips) without the Wiss label)

These snips are very popular, and now can be bought in more than the standard straight, right and left cutting models. including pairs that keep the handles out of the way of the materials (Shown) and pairs that cut nearly vertically so clear in tight quarters.

Std

M1 - Red = left
M2 - Green = right
M3 - Yellow = straight
M6 Red offset = Left
M7 - Green offset = Right

Again special snips are made for heavy/tough materials, as well as double cuts good for staring at a small holes and cutting patterns, very handy for making an opening in a sheet of metal.

Special

M1/M2 - Blue L/R for Stainless Steel
M5 - Red = Straight mini Bulldogs. (For heavier material - Pre SS Blue, but still sold I think)

Yellow Double cuts = Straight

I know the quality of Wiss has dropped as the company was sold into diversity, but watch for the better snips used, including Wiss (inlaid), Pexto Malco, Metal Master.

Bench snips are very easy to resharpen, (best on a lower speed grinder) and even aviation snips can be resharpened, however you need a special checkering file to renew the gripping teeth on the blade.

If anyone has things to add (Or if you see something that needs correcting), feel free to comment.

 

[Jolomite]

Say, I just challenged myself to sharpen a few pair of compound snips last week. Because they had evidently been used to cut wire (I'm thinking coat hanger) because of the deep gouges in the cutting edge.

The sharpening went well- disassembled and put them on a med grit sanding belt, careful to keep the same angle. Also, as is protocol for scissors, chisels, and other on sided cutting edges- I didn't touch the other "side" of the edge. However, because I removed so much material the tips of the jaws no longer crossed paths. It was as if the snips wouldn't "close" all the way.

Mr. Outlaw, do you have any tips for sharpening?

 

[Outlawmws]

Say, I just challenged myself to sharpen a few pair of compound snips last week. Because they had evidently been used to cut wire (I'm thinking coat hanger) because of the deep gouges in the cutting edge.

The sharpening went well- disassembled and put them on a med grit sanding belt, careful to keep the same angle. Also, as is protocol for scissors, chisels, and other on sided cutting edges- I didn't touch the other "side" of the edge. However, because I removed so much material the tips of the jaws no longer crossed paths. It was as if the snips wouldn't "close" all the way.

Mr. Outlaw, do you have any tips for sharpening?

Sounds like you did everything basically right. I will sometimes lay the flat side on a sharpening stone and hone it if there are any high spots, but that is about it.

Compounds also need that griping "tooth" or they tend to slip when cutting, especially on curved cuts, and that is done with a checkering file as I mentioned. Probably have to get something like that from Brownels or midway these days. (use to be a local sheet metal supply/warehouse that sold them but I'm not sure that place exists anymore...)

Getting the tips to close I thin is not in the cards. with a bench type snip you have a chance at bending the handle in a press a little so they don't "hit the stops", but that's not practical for aviation snips.

 

[lwlobo]

Great overview, Outlaw, thanks!

I have a few pairs of bench snips (from garage sales) that don't cut at all. There seems to be a gap between the shear blades. I can't tighten the nut any more without making them too tight to move. It's almost like the blades were bent way from each other by cutting something too thick, or getting jammed or something. Is this common, and any way to fix it?

 

[Outlawmws]

Great overview, Outlaw, thanks!

I have a few pairs of bench snips (from garage sales) that don't cut at all. There seems to be a gap between the shear blades. I can't tighten the nut any more without making them too tight to move. It's almost like the blades were bent way from each other by cutting something too thick, or getting jammed or something. Is this common, and any way to fix it?

Yes, this is fairly common and doable particularly with bench snips (compound are a bit trickier).

First take them apart, and make sure there are no high spots. I take these out with a sharpening stone held flat on the blade. (machinists do this (Called "stoning the ways" oddly enough! ) on ground machine tool ways to remove high spots from "dings")


Second work with them without the nut, and with just hand pressure work them back and forth while looking at the way the blades engage from top/bottom. It may be that only one blade is bent. get the unbent blade section in a vise, (pad the vise jaws with copper or wood (Two 2x4's?) and now you need to bend it back flat.

This will take some trial and error, and you may want to make up a bending tool to concentrate the bending force low and at the bend. (two 24" bars, say 1 X1/4" with bolts loosely though near one end say about 3" apart or so)

Another way it to put the handle in the vise so the bend point is at the edge of the jaw, and use a 2X4 (punch) and a heavy hammer to tap (Beat) the blade back to position, but this is a bit more difficult to control...

Trial fit as above until you get a nice closed shearing action at the blades.

Resharpen as needed and reassemble

A note on the nuts used on these snips:

They are kept from coming loose with a mechanical "lock". If you look at the pic below, you will see three triangular indents on the nut. these are put in with a large triangular punch to upset the outer thread in three places.

This should be "refreshed" every time the nut is reused.

Some 1/2" or so bar stock or drill rod can be ground for this to get it done in one go, or a smaller one can be made and get it done in three, but is a bit harder to get even results.

 

[napaAl]

Here in Norcal, Klenk's have been a popular brand. Haven't seen many lately.

 

[JASTECH]

Outlaw, very nice. +sticky

I have had never purchased any tin cutters thanks to my Dad (alive) gave me a couple of them huge snips he used for cutting screens for windows, after he bought a couplevof the Wiss for which I have now. But his Dad, my Gpa made duckting (sp) for roof swamp coolers in Arizonia for many years and made custom copper hoods and ducting in resturaunts. One resturaunt he says was Pikes Peak I think? I would like to see it and take pics of his work in Tucson. But anyways, he left me many tools including them coloured handle snips and some w/o handles, huge soldering Iron for lead maybe? A bunch of Simpson meters, laith cutters ect. from his work with Hughs.

 

[BWS]

Nice writeup.

I've sharpened both reg's and aviations.....they work fine.

 

[MrMark]

Very good writeup. I vote sticky.

 

[TommyD]

Good info

 

[Outlawmws]

An Update with a "new" set of compound bench snips I picked up today. A little Google research and these are right at 100 years old +-.

Bartlett Mfg Co. Detroit Mich. made these snips; No. 1201 (I've also seen No. 1401 ads) These are about 12" long, so it's a fair bet the 4101's are 14"

The 1910 ads rated these for up to 16 ga. cold rolled steel material.

Shown with an abused pair of Wiss No. 9's (see the hammer marks on the tops and bottoms of the Wiss Jaws?)

I like these Bartlett snips, and they will get used again!

 

[reptilezs]

i just bought a wiss inlaid today. remembered this post and stuff it in my bag. good snips. i also have a malco with the light magnesium handles and inserts. found on a bike ride

 

[tank4114]

i have been using klenk brand aviation snips and quite like them they don't actually have the gripping teeth like some snips so you get a smooth cut, and also a nice made in US on tool.

they claim to be the first manufacturer of aviation snips in the US is this true

 

[OccupantRJ]

How about Malco left and right overhead aviation snips? Most people probably are not familiar with them.

http://malcoproducts.com/images/products/pdfs/15247_av_snips_catalog_supplement-001.pdf

 

[3xpendable]

sticky very nice write up

 

[nine4gmc]

good info, I need more snips now...

 

[ADSR]

Great info. I've been putting a list together for about 10+ snips.

 

[neophyte]

i have been using klenk brand aviation snips and quite like them they don't actually have the gripping teeth like some snips so you get a smooth cut, and also a nice made in US on tool.

they claim to be the first manufacturer of aviation snips in the US is this true

There is a patent for a Karl J. Klenk, #2,655,722, Patented Oct20, 1953 for a cam closing hand tool. The patent drawing shows a pair of snips with sheet metal handles that appear similar to modern aviation snips. No other similar snips are cited in the patent, but the Bartlett snips Outlawmws has, are obviously older. The modern design for aviation snips might be based on the Klenk design. This is the patent.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=4N...pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=klenk 2655722&f=false

 

[Outlawmws]

good info, I need more snips now...

Great info. I've been putting a list together for about 10+ snips.

It can be a slippery slope. You could wind up with about 7X that...

 

[Outlawmws]

Here is another pair that is different, a pair of Pexto 2A doubel cuts. The jaws are for cutting duck pipe or holes in panels similar to some of the double cut power shears that are sold.

But they also have a crimper for shrinking one end so it will fit into another pipe.

I used the crimper on some round gutter downspout on the shed project. It worked well! it's not as deep a crimp as the ones from the factory, but completely adequate.

 

[msgtsmithret]

OK so it's been here for a while . . . but I just read this thread. Thanks Owtlaw for a great guide for tin snips and their maintenance. I picked up a set of WISS A10 snips for a dollar and now I know how to fix 'em up. Thanks again and here is a hint . . .STICKY STICKY STICKY.

Also in the pics are some WISS hedge trimmers from the 1930's. Not snips but very cool antique tool nevertheless.

 

[Midman914]

Here is another pair that is different, a pair of Pexto 2A doubel cuts. The jaws are for cutting duck pipe or holes in panels similar to some of the double cut power shears that are sold.

But they also have a crimper for shrinking one end so it will fit into another pipe.

I used the crimper on some round gutter downspout on the shed project. It worked well! it's not as deep a crimp as the ones from the factory, but completely adequate.

I found a set of these at the Estate sale of an old time Tin Knocker for something like $5. Got them home and found that they would not cut very well due to the far left cutting edge being dulled. Not on the center blade, but the side that reads Pexto in your picture. I was wondering if there is any way to rectify this? I see the Pexto name stamped into the side of yours is half on. Makes me wonder if this is how to fix mine by carefully grinding down on a belt sander until I am past the bad spot. Is this how to fix these? My only other thought was to weld along the edge and carefully file the edge back, but I don't know if these were heat treated hence them not being easily repaired. Man I want to use these things so any help is much appreciated.

 

[Outlawmws]

Don't weld the edge... the only thing you will create is scrap metal!

can you post a pic of the damage/wear? (hint: use the "Macro" setting on your camera (often a Flower symbol)

I'm at work, so I would need to look at mine later to see what surface is best used for sharpening, but compared to regular snips, these get tricky to sharpen.

 

[Outlawmws]

Msgt, great pair of shears! Very cool!

 

[Jere]

Outlawmws what is the point of these things? They seem pretty wimpy compared to some of the previous snips. I pretty much bought these just to figure out the point of them. The blades don't even touch and there is a weird spring on the end for some reason. The handles look like normal though

 

[Outlawmws]

Those do pretty much the same thing as the PEXTO 2A double cuts I posted with similar jaws. MUCH newer, but same point: cutting ducting.

Those are completely out of adjustment. You need to loosen the screw at the opposite end of the screw with the spring, and then adjust the blades with the spring loaded screw (and to a lesser degree, the middle screw), so you get shearing action without binding. This solves the issue Midman914 was asking about on the older pair.

 

[Outlawmws]

BTW Jere, who made that set? I don't recognize them.

 

[Jere]

Thanks for the info, they are made by Chas, Klenk from what I can make out (still kinda dirty)

 

[toolmaven]

I know the last post was a while ago. But a really cool old snip is a Wiss 9x Scroll snip. This has the shape of a Beverly shear in a hand snip. I've cut 1/8" wave shapes in 22ga with this tool. LONG out of production. I've been lucky to find one & a back-up. With their unusual cutting geometry, they'd be difficult to sharpen. I think you might have to relief grind the pivot area. I have several standard Wiss Snips, including the curved blade and the really big No. 6, all vintage, many NOS (as the recent production is awful). If it doesn't say Newark, NJ (except aviation snips) it is not worth it. I also have Bartletts, mostly for the novelty, and a pair of Pexto hawk'sbill snips, which show up in how-to books to this day, but have been also out of production for decades. I'm now restoring a curved blade Niagra brand, inlaid like Wiss, and a bit larger than the Wiss 9cb curved snips.

 

[Outlawmws]

Those are cool Toolmaven! First set I've seen, so another thing to watch for!

 

[davethorik]

no pics just another mfg to add...i have a set of snips at work made by ProSnip of Beatrice, Nebraska. USA made. I have had them for a while and they are tough.

 

[bonneyman]

My dad was a tin knocker, and IIRC, he preferred Wiss snips.
I have used Wiss, Malco, Midwest, and Craftsman (when they were available). They all were pretty good, and I prefer the angled versions.
A forum member sent me a triple set of Lenox brand, but I have not gotten around to using them. And I do have a couple of PEXTO's in various sizes. Use them more for cutting fiberglass.
Klenk's are supposed to be the oldest and best, but I have never used them.

I don't have any pics handy, but, if there's interest, I could dig them out and gather them together for some.

 

[Outlawmws]

Definitely add the pics! This is GJ after all!

 

[SRD9Boss]

+1 on Prosnips. Like the one handed opening. Who else has this feature?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[Thunderbisciut]

A timely revive. I was just shopping for some aviation snips myself. I was looking at Wiss and Midwest since they're everywhere. Seems they were good once upon a time, but now just meh.

So I decided to look to the Germans instead. First was looking at some from Bessey. Seems lately there is some confusion since they say Taiwan on the package, and Germany on the tool.

In the end I went to my favorite plier company and went with some NWS 066 snips. They came in today from Chad's, but they sent me some 067s by mistake.

 

[Outlawmws]

One handed opening: Any of the spring loaded Aviation snips and any loop handled bench snips, which means almost any US made snips. Japan and Europe like snips with pliers type handles, I have no Idea why..

 

[mrobins297aaa]

great thread outlaw, after being a tinnocker for 41 years before i retired 5 years ago you'd think i'd be able to add some good advice on snips and how to sharpen them but unfortunately when ever my snips got dull i just bought new ones. Funny i probably still have all of them. we mostly used wiss snips........although i know there are a lot of good brands out there now.

I have some older bull dogs, some even with the curved blades they were either my dad's or grandfathers not sure (they were both sheet metal workers).........I'll have to find them and take some pic's.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

This vid on using snips was posted at the OFN;

And my own observations;

I haven't used aviation tin snips much and so did learn from this vid. However I have used 10" tin snips for over 25 years for siding and aluminum cladding. I have always ground down the tip of the blade so that there isn't an "overbite". It seems that from the factory there is always an overbite, doesn't matter which manufacturer, that would either leave a mark/indentation or cause a weak spot in the vinyl or alum. sheet when having to close the blade all the way shut. I make it so that there is no "overbite";


^^^ You can see where I smoothed all sharp edges that can catch and make it hard to maneuver.


^^^ there is still the slightest bit of "overbite", from wear on the stop.

In the beginning there was 1/8" excess "bite" and the blade was too wide at the tip for finesse.

The reason for "fixing" the snips as I do is when cutting a L-trim or J-channel. In the process of trimming a "birds-mouth" has to be cut out for proper fitment. The sharp point of the "birds-mouth" or V is right at a 90 degree corner, and when moving at speed it's easier if the "overbite" is gone.

Richard

 

[mrobins297aaa]

you should never close the snips all the way when cutting, it'll leave mark or dimple what ever you want to call it and it makes it harder to stay on the cut line, its like starting over every time you close them all the way.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

^^^ this is true but for what I did I needed to close the snip all the way without having an "overbite". I tried to explain in the last paragraph of my above post.

Richard