Shelter for my hobbies

[Overboost44]

Back just before Covid, I had all of my plans done and permits approved to add a detached garage to my home. The original garage was turned into a bedroom, so I had lived without one for 13 years. We all know what happened to the prices and cost of construction, so I held off.

Time has come again. I am 8 weeks! into the permitting phase. This time it will be attached with a mudroom and it will be 2 bays 32'x26' with a 6'x18' mudroom in between. One bay will have a second floor over top. One 35' tall tree needs to be removed.


I am posting now, so I can maybe benefit from all of the knowledge here. A very good friend is a builder and has done the drawings for me. He has also provided me with his subcontractors that he has worked with over the 25 years. Good start. I will GC this myself to keep costs down so I can outfit it properly.

There can be no changes to the foot print. The minor changes will be that the wall on the left will be 4', between the doors will be 3' and the right will be 7'. I am not sure if I should center the dormers on the roof or over the center of the roll-up doors. Input welcome. No scale here so pay no attention to the siding difference in the dormers There will be 14' ceiling and a 2-post in bay #1 with storage above. The room above bay #2 will be a hang-out or office.

To start closer to where I am now... I have learned that the excavation contractor does not plan to put stone in the footer trenches and he has done plenty of houses around here. No concrete forms either. Trench will be cut 8" wider than the required 24"x 8" x8" footers 30" deep. Does that sound familiar to anyone? Climate zone 4. I will lay #4 rebar on 3" chairs in the footers. I am just thinking it would save a lot of concrete if there were forms.

I plan 6" of compacted stone under the slab for the garage. Slab will be 5" maybe 4000 psi but that is probably overkill. I will have 2" foam on the stone and a 10 mil Stego wrap on that. Slab will have #4 rebar on 2" or 2.5" chairs. Pex (probably from Blue Ridge or Uponor) will be tied into the rebar for future radiant heating.
For the mudroom, I plan to have the same base but with a 4" slab. It will need to have ventilation so that needs to worked out. I do not like the "floating footing" that he put in there and I will instead have it tied in to the front and back walls as well as the mudroom block.

Have planned for rockwool throughout and will likely go with 1 mini-split with 3 zones. 24k for the main, 9k for upstairs, 6k for mudroom.

That is all for now. Munch on that. I will get into more details soon. Open to your thoughts.

 

[AC-WC]

My opinion-center the dormers over the doors.
For the 2 post lift leave a blank spot of rebar where the column/bolts will go. It's preferable for the bolts not to hit the rebar. I followed Bendpak concrete guidelines for my retrofit and many other GJ folks do as well. They have 'new' construction instructions in the same guideline.

 

[BurtEggley]

just make sure your drainage and soil where you will build is perfect before doing anything else. So many people overlook those in a rush, thinking it will be "good enough," then have to remediate it later.

 

[Overboost44]

My opinion-center the dormers over the doors.
For the 2 post lift leave a blank spot of rebar where the column/bolts will go. It's preferable for the bolts not to hit the rebar. I followed Bendpak concrete guidelines for my retrofit and many other GJ folks do as well. They have 'new' construction instructions in the same guideline.

Got the rebar covered. Also have to make sure the relief cuts will fall in the right place. I figure (but open to opinions) one 10' from the right side heading left and one 20'. Would I need one to dissect from front to back on an essentially 25' slab? If so, down the middle at 12.5' will not work as that is where the lift will be. Appreciate the thoughts on the dormers also. I am leaning that way.

just make sure your drainage and soil where you will build is perfect before doing anything else. So many people overlook those in a rush, thinking it will be "good enough," then have to remediate it later.

Noted. I am thinking it is worth $500-$800 to have stones put in under the footers. This contractor has put several houses in the neighborhood, the thing is, they are new so there is no real history on how they will fare over time. Roof water will be run out to a culvert from the downspouts but heavy rains may not drain well. It is a low spot now but only because of the large tree and I feel that it will be graded out and be just fine.

 

[Codyboy]

The left front mandoor (DO2) has no protection. I would also make it a 3-0 wide.
Me, I would have the new garage roof extend all the way over the mudroom area as opposed to extending the house roof over the mudroom area.

Definitely center the dormers over the doors.

10 ft wide doors instead of 9 ft or just one 18 ft door

 

[logical]

Across the front I would do 3.5' wall, 10' door, 3.5 ' wall, 10' door, 5' wall. Dormers over the doors. If you need the 7' on the right, then 3' wall, 10' door, 2.5' wall, 10' door, 6.5 wall (same space as your 7' was with 6" less door per side)

 

[JuncleJohn]

I agree with Codyboy. Two 10’ wide doors or one 18 footer.

Also, 30” seems little shallow for the footings.

John

 

[Overboost44]

The left front mandoor (DO2) has no protection. I would also make it a 3-0 wide.
Me, I would have the new garage roof extend all the way over the mudroom area as opposed to extending the house roof over the mudroom area.

Definitely center the dormers over the doors.

10 ft wide doors instead of 9 ft or just one 18 ft door

Good point about the man-door having no roof. I will try to figure out the roof design.

Across the front I would do 3.5' wall, 10' door, 3.5 ' wall, 10' door, 5' wall. Dormers over the doors. If you need the 7' on the right, then 3' wall, 10' door, 2.5' wall, 10' door, 6.5 wall (same space as your 7' was with 6" less door per side)

I agree with Codyboy. Two 10’ wide doors or one 18 footer.

Also, 30” seems little shallow for the footings.

John

Everyone likes 10' wide doors. I can change them but just questioning why? Is 9' not wide enough?
30" is required by the county for frost depth. I figure they would be conservative. This is why I posted the plans and requested input. I still have time to change things. Thanks all.

 

[logical]

Good point about the man-door having no roof. I will try to figure out the roof design.



Everyone likes 10' wide doors. I can change them but just questioning why? Is 9' not wide enough?
30" is required by the county for frost depth. I figure they would be conservative. This is why I posted the plans and requested input. I still have time to change things. Thanks all.

I suppose that all depends on what you park there. My F-150 with towing mirrors is only a few inches per side less than 9' and that left bay is really tight to the stairway wall.

 

[AC-WC]

Got the rebar covered. Also have to make sure the relief cuts will fall in the right place. I figure (but open to opinions) one 10' from the right side heading left and one 20'. Would I need one to dissect from front to back on an essentially 25' slab? If so, down the middle at 12.5' will not work as that is where the lift will be. Appreciate the thoughts on the dormers also. I am leaning that way.

Noted. I am thinking it is worth $500-$800 to have stones put in under the footers. This contractor has put several houses in the neighborhood, the thing is, they are new so there is no real history on how they will fare over time. Roof water will be run out to a culvert from the downspouts but heavy rains may not drain well. It is a low spot now but only because of the large tree and I feel that it will be graded out and be just fine.

Suggest you review with the concrete guy. Sometimes they like to cut the reliefs the day after vs the trowel/wet seam during the pour. If they do the day after cut it will be much easier to layout the column locations and then confirm reliefs are minimum 8" from the columns.

 

[Overboost44]

I suppose that all depends on what you park there. My F-150 with towing mirrors is only a few inches per side less than 9' and that left bay is really tight to the stairway wall.

Understood. Never say never, but that left bay should be for my wife's vehicle whatever that is or will be, but the won't have anything that size. Then again she said she would never drive my F350 and she ended up loving it. That was then, now the largest thing she would drive would be the size of an Explorer, 4Runner, etc. I do get your point though and will really consider the 10' doors with the wall dimensions that you stated.

Suggest you review with the concrete guy. Sometimes they like to cut the reliefs the day after vs the trowel/wet seam during the pour. If they do the day after cut it will be much easier to layout the column locations and then confirm reliefs are minimum 8" from the columns.

Will discuss with the concrete guy in advance. Thanks.

 

[7echo]

Unless your home has dormers I would not build them. If you want the light get some Velux skylights. The dormers are a nice architectural touch but add complexity to the framing, roofing, and insulation.

 

[Overboost44]

Unless your home has dormers I would not build them. If you want the light get some Velux skylights. The dormers are a nice architectural touch but add complexity to the framing, roofing, and insulation.

Understood. I have 5 Velux skylights on the home now. 4 that open and 1 that is fixed. Never had a problem with any of them.

That said, the dormer will add space to the room above Bay 2. That is important to me. With a 12:12 pitch roof, I will lose 8' in depth due to 4' knee wall. The other over Bay 1 is just for a symmetrical appearance. My existing upstairs room on the other end of the house has 2 skylights and with the knee wall it just feels small. I would like to have an 8' wide dormer over Bay 2, but architecturally that would just not look right.

 

[CraigStu]

Maybe I missed it but why are the garage doors not centered? To me it takes a really nice traditional cape cod exterior and makes it look weird. I'd center the doors and then center the dormers over them. I'd move the man door up onto the small landing so it would have a bit of roof over it.

 

[Codyboy]

I suppose that all depends on what you park there. My F-150 with towing mirrors is only a few inches per side less than 9' and that left bay is really tight to the stairway wall.

This.
My F150 also has tow mirrors ( un-extended normal driving ) is 8.91' wide and 9.41' extended position.

OP you have an F350 (same width cab as F150) you say? Not sure if dually or single RW) Are you not going to park in garage or at least put it on the lift occasionally?

 

[Overboost44]

Maybe I missed it but why are the garage doors not centered? To me it takes a really nice traditional cape cod exterior and makes it look weird. I'd center the doors and then center the dormers over them. I'd move the man door up onto the small landing so it would have a bit of roof over it.

I want 7' (essentially 6'4") on the right side because the lift will be in that right bay and I want room for work benches/toolboxes. Don't want to have to squeeze by the lift. Worth consideration to put the man-door up there, but will need steps to go to the garage floor. That would alleviate the concern to get it under a roof. I really don't see the man door getting used to often but definitely want a door near the front so I don't have to roll-up the garage doors when I get visitors. Appreciate your ideas.

This.
My F150 also has tow mirrors ( un-extended normal driving ) is 8.91' wide and 9.41' extended position.

OP you have an F350 (same width cab as F150) you say? Not sure if dually or single RW) Are you not going to park in garage or at least put it on the lift occasionally?

I don't have an F350 anymore and won't be getting one again. Used to have it for racing and towing trailers. Either way, I am still considering the 10' doors whereby otherwise I had not considered them at all.

 

[Overboost44]

Thoughts on this? Received a quote for the excavation work:

Dig footers
Pour footings
Cut topsoil out of inside for slab
Stockpile topsoil for final grade
Cut new driveway (~ 1,000 sq ft)
1 load of RC6 for driveway base
Backfill foundation once block is done.
Under slab-Use material that I purchase (stone), he will spread and plate tamp it.
Final grade once everything is done.

$5000 plus discount for cash

 

[AC-WC]

Sounds like a fair deal to me. Did you get more than one quote?

 

[racecougar]

Agreed on both counts above.

 

[Overboost44]

Sounds like a fair deal to me. Did you get more than one quote?

Not yet, but I will get two more quotes.

 

[CraigStu]

I understand what you are saying about work benches on the right wall but, it would drive me crazy looking at those unequal outer wall sections. If you go w/ the 10ft doors how about offsetting the lift enough away from the wall to get benches there and drive closer to the left edge of the door opening?

 

[Overboost44]

I understand what you are saying about work benches on the right wall but, it would drive me crazy looking at those unequal outer wall sections. If you go w/ the 10ft doors how about offsetting the lift enough away from the wall to get benches there and drive closer to the left edge of the door opening?

I get it. My wife has a hard time with it also. Your idea is really not bad.
It could be 5', 10, 2', 10', 5' or 4.5', 10', 3', 10', 4.5'. You have given me some thinking to do.

 

[bad_idea]

Good point about the man-door having no roof. I will try to figure out the roof design.



Everyone likes 10' wide doors. I can change them but just questioning why? Is 9' not wide enough?
30" is required by the county for frost depth. I figure they would be conservative. This is why I posted the plans and requested input. I still have time to change things. Thanks all.

I did two 9x9 doors on my 30x40x12 detached. Really wish I had went with 10' wide doors. 9' is just wide enough to fit a car trailer into with ~3" on each side. That extra foot would make it easier fitting trailers and larger trucks (F250 range) into the building.

 

[Overboost44]

Update: Not much to tell on the permit. I am now 15 weeks in. I will center the dormers. Thanks to those that suggested it.

Have an electrician and Mechanical contractor. I will run the outlets, final hookup will be by electrician. I plan to have 220V circuits for lift, radiant heat, mini-split and electric car which I will not own but it is apparently required. Once the inspector signs off, that may be converted to a circuit for a welder.

The mini-split will be a Daikin 3 ton with 24k in the garage section and 12k for the mancave upstairs. I know that is overkill, but the 12k head is less than $100 difference and that room will get all of the sun beating on it. Rather be safe than sorry. $7600 installed, and it is a requirement to have it installed by an HVAC contractor so I can't do it myself. Then he will run a duct extension from the existing house to heat/cool the 108 sq mudroom.

My latest conundrum is sheathing. I was always planning to use Zip system sheathing. When it comes down to it, it will be $5k including zip tape to do 7/16" on the walls and 5/8" on the roof sheathing. 7/16" OSB is going to be $1600 for the whole building. I am not sure I can justify that difference. I plan to make this very well insulated and have Rockwool in the walls and ceiling and insulation under the slab.

I have one quote for the lumber package which is $18k including allowance for windows and $2500 worth of doors. The second quote is awaiting numbers for the trusses but will likely be close the way it is trending. A third quote is pending.

 

[CraigStu]

Yep I like the idea of zip but not the price. Seems to me that the old standby of house wrap done by someone who cares has stood the test of time and is what I'd do.

 

[NUTTSGT]

You won't see an immediate return on the Zip or insulation but interested long run, yes.

I sheathed my addition with Zip. It was crazy as there was no air movement...however, I did spray foam the bottom of my wall cavities.

 

[Overboost44]

Yep I like the idea of zip but not the price. Seems to me that the old standby of house wrap done by someone who cares has stood the test of time and is what I'd do.

You won't see an immediate return on the Zip or insulation but interested long run, yes.

I sheathed my addition with Zip. It was crazy as there was no air movement...however, I did spray foam the bottom of my wall cavities.

Thanks to you both. I am leaning towards very well done tyvek. I don't think I will be in this house 10 years from now and will get every bit of money out of this addition that I put into it. I still want it to be comfortable and energy efficient while I am here, but the next person won't know if it is zip or not nor would they likely care.

 

[BombShelter]

If there is a basement, the middle notched area might get more water than normal, without seeing a site plan, I'd put in some solid 6" sch 40 drain pipe going to the right side of the garage. If there's any slope towards the front garage door, I'd also put in a trench drain also heading to the right.

I love the dormers, I've been thinking about putting them on my shop, it makes the garage look more respectable.

 

[Overboost44]

If there is a basement, the middle notched area might get more water than normal, without seeing a site plan, I'd put in some solid 6" sch 40 drain pipe going to the right side of the garage. If there's any slope towards the front garage door, I'd also put in a trench drain also heading to the right.

I love the dormers, I've been thinking about putting them on my shop, it makes the garage look more respectable.

Thanks. No basement here. I somehow have the feeling the county will determine the drainage for me but I like the thought. I am on an island and within a short distance of the Chesapeake so they tend to get very picky. I plan to have the very long gutters and large roof drain off to the right with 6" sod 40 pipe leading to the culvert at the front of the property and a very slight grade of the slab towards the garage doors. Appreciate the input.

 

[WisJim]

The only reason I would do dormers is to prevent snow from sliding off the roof in front of the garage doors and that means dormers as wide as the garage doors. Otherwise they add complexity and expense and potential leaks to the roof. I like my 10 foot wide garage door even though we only park a normal sized car in the garage as it makes my wife more comfortable driving in and out--and that's worth a lot!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Thanks to you both. I am leaning towards very well done tyvek. I don't think I will be in this house 10 years from now and will get every bit of money out of this addition that I put into it. I still want it to be comfortable and energy efficient while I am here, but the next person won't know if it is zip or not nor would they likely care.

If its something you're moving on from in thr future, by all means, I would skip it as well.

When I decided to add Zip, it hadn't price jumped like OSB during covid. I only paid about $3/sheet more. Total investment was probably $200, which included buying a roller for the tape.

 

[Overboost44]

If its something you're moving on from in thr future, by all means, I would skip it as well.

When I decided to add Zip, it hadn't price jumped like OSB during covid. I only paid about $3/sheet more. Total investment was probably $200, which included buying a roller for the tape.

That would have been a no brainer for the Zip. I won't be here long enough to appreciate the difference in efficiency.

I just have a hard time believing it is 3x better or more accurately worth 3x the cost.

 

[NUTTSGT]

That would have been a no brainer for the Zip. I won't be here long enough to appreciate the difference in efficiency.

I just have a hard time believing it is 3x better or more accurately worth 3x the cost.

Without first hand experience, its hard to believe. I wouldn't have thought it myself.

 

[CraigStu]

Also look into a sticky back material used specifically at window openings. I have no details but I see it a lot on new construction homes. Seems to me it's another step that can't be too complicated but could offer long term resistance to water damage.

 

[Overboost44]

Also look into a sticky back material used specifically at window openings. I have no details but I see it a lot on new construction homes. Seems to me it's another step that can't be too complicated but could offer long term resistance to water damage.

Good idea. The lumber package includes a couple of rolls of zip stretch tape (even the one without zip sheathing) for windows and doors.