Shop heater for remote cabin

[aaronmn]

Hope this thread is okay here. I have a small, very, very, remote cabin. I do have electricity. Currently, a wood stove is my only source of heat. What would the drawbacks be of using two 5,000 kw shop/garage heaters as supplemental heat? With just the wood stove, it takes many hours to get the space to a tolerable temp. It is not heated all of the time.

2x6 walls. Insulated floor. First floor, with a loft up stairs. Very, very cold climate. 0 degrees may be a high temp in January.

 

[thickhead]

Electric heat to supplement the wood stove sounds like the easiest thing to do and probably what I would do. If by some wild chance you have internet at the cabin, then add a t-stat with remote capability and the place can be pre-heated when you arrive.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I wouldn't get garage heaters, I'd get a radiant cove heater or some panel heaters.

 

[The Cobbler]

electric would work for sure. . what about a propane torpedo heater to get it up to temperature fast?

 

[aaronmn]

The radiant cove and panel heaters look nice - just low BTUs.

I probably wouldn't want a torpedo heater - kids may be around.

 

[Bert_]

How big is the cabin?

 

[aaronmn]

How big is the cabin?

About 1,500 square feet. 28x36. 18' ceiling.

 

[Showkey]

That’s a barn not cabin

Depending on the outside temperature and insulation 10k btu electric might not do much and or take a long time to raise the temp ?

 

[aaronmn]

That’s a barn not cabin

Depending on the outside temperature and insulation 10k btu electric might not do much and or take a long time to raise the temp ?

Lol @ the barn.

Insulation is good. Outside temps are frigid. Total btus should be just under 40k with 10,000w.

 

[kelpaso1]

electric would work for sure. . what about a propane torpedo heater to get it up to temperature fast?

Terrible advice. Nothing like pumping warm, moist, fume laden air inside a cabin.

 

[PoorUB]

I was thinking about a propane shop heater, or maybe a propane parlor stove.

These don't require electricity, Empire heaters but a fan kit can be added if you like.

 

[Jackfre]

Rinnai EX38.

 

[aaronmn]

Rinnai EX38.

I was looking hard at Propane, but have been slightly turned off by getting tanks to the location.

 

[ez-duzit]

Since you have electrical power, electric heaters make sense....until the power goes out.

 

[aaronmn]

Since you have electrical power, electric heaters make sense....until the power goes out.

I do have a wood stove - it will hold temp, but slow to get there.

 

[PCustoms]

I do have a wood stove - it will hold temp, but slow to get there.

How big is the woodstove?

How are you going to turn on the electric heat before you get there?

That's a lot of cabin to warm up from almost 0 (F or C?)

 

[u3b3rg33k]

The radiant cove and panel heaters look nice - just low BTUs.

I probably wouldn't want a torpedo heater - kids may be around.

that just depends on how many you put in. no one said you could only do one.

 

[Sumboodie]

About 1,500 square feet. 28x36. 18' ceiling.

What's the purpose of such a tall ceiling?
My Dad's garage is heated with wood.

Terrible advice. Nothing like pumping warm, moist, fume laden air inside a cabin.

I've done that in a drafty shop. Doesn't take long before it's setting of CO alarms.
Tried it once in a kiln. The heater would put itself out after a while after using up the oxygen!

My grandfather almost died in the 60s from those heaters. They'd use them to keep the potato houses from freezing in winter. He went up on a loft area to check something and passed out. Fell down on the concrete floor.

It's about 25x30. It takes maybe 45 mins to have it from below zero to sweating.
2 story, but 8ft ceiling.


How remote, are you flying supplies in or can you drive there?
If you can drive there, I'd consider an oil fired furnace, or propane if that's a cheaper fuel. Here propane is expensive and crazy to heat with.

 

[472scout]

We used to heat a shop with 16 or 18ft ceilings but larger in size. Poor insulation and 3x 12x12 ft overhead doors. Our large woodbstove with a fan would run you out of there in under 30 minutes.

 

[aaronmn]

How big is the woodstove?

How are you going to turn on the electric heat before you get there?

That's a lot of cabin to warm up from almost 0 (F or C?)

I can't remember the size of the stove off-hand, but when I was researching it this past spring, it seemed to be fine size wise.

I would turn the electric on when I get there. No wifi yet. Degrees is in F.

I can't drive there. Snowmobile in the winter, and boat in the summer.

The height is for the loft on the second floor. Open to the ceiling in the front half.

 

[PCustoms]

I can't drive there. Snowmobile in the winter, and boat in the summer.

How to you have electricity if it is that remote?

 

[mikedodge]

The wood burning stove should heat the place faster then electric would. But a force flow electric heater of some sort would at least make it feel warmer until its up to temp. Or maybe a pellet stove?
Unless you can easily get there with a propane or oil truck electric is probably easiest especially since you already have it.

 

[finn]

Ours is about the same size: 24’x40’, with a loft and closed off bedroom in half the upstairs, the front 20’ is a great room open to a 16’ cathedral ceiling. The front is mostly glass, and another sliding glass door on the side wall, all with 2”x6” construction and a full basement.

We heated it for many years, first with a wood stove and later supplemented with electric baseboards. Electric baseboards in the basement too.

We had, I think, three or four 20 or 30 amp 240v circuits. If I remember right, baseboards take one amp per linear foot.

Worked fine for years, but after arriving at 2:30 am to find a broken pipe in the basement one winter, we started leaving the heat set to the mid forties rather than go through the broken pipe in the middle of the night routine again.

The electric heat was rather expensive to run for five months of the year, so we eventually switched to a propane boiler and staple up pex radiant heat.

The Advantage of the electric baseboards is that they are cheap to purchase and easy to install if you do it during the construction stage when the walls are open.

The cottage has since been expanded and converted to our summer home, but the baseboards are still mostly in place. They are rarely used now, but serve as backup heat in case the boiler has issues while we’re away for the winter.

 

[aaronmn]

How big is the woodstove?

How are you going to turn on the electric heat before you get there?

That's a lot of cabin to warm up from almost 0 (F or C?)

I can't remember the size of the stove off-hand, but when I was researching it this past spring, it seemed to be fine size wise.

I would turn the electric on when I get there. No wifi yet. Degrees is in F.

I can't drive there. Snowmobile in the winter, and boat in the summer.

The height is for the loft on the second floor. Open to the ceiling in the front half

How to you have electricity if it is that remote?

There are

Ours is about the same size: 24’x40’, with a loft and closed off bedroom in half the upstairs, the front 20’ is a great room open to a 16’ cathedral ceiling. The front is mostly glass, and another sliding glass door on the side wall, all with 2”x6” construction and a full basement.

We heated it for many years, first with a wood stove and later supplemented with electric baseboards. Electric baseboards in the basement too.

We had, I think, three or four 20 or 30 amp 240v circuits. If I remember right, baseboards take one amp per linear foot.

Worked fine for years, but after arriving at 2:30 am to find a broken pipe in the basement one winter, we started leaving the heat set to the mid forties rather than go through the broken pipe in the middle of the night routine again.

The electric heat was rather expensive to run for five months of the year, so we eventually switched to a propane boiler and staple up pex radiant heat.

The Advantage of the electric baseboards is that they are cheap to purchase and easy to install if you do it during the construction stage when the walls are open.

The cottage has since been expanded and converted to our summer home, but the baseboards are still mostly in place. They are rarely used now, but serve as backup heat in case the boiler has issues while we’re away for the winter.

I love it! Thank you! The radiant heat is obviously enough to keep you happy?

 

[98ssuck]

Kinda confused how it can be very remote and still have electricity? It’s going to take the same amount of btus to heat the place up from ambient temperature to 70* no matter which way you decide. Sounds like it’s a hunting cabin. In that case. Install a small supplement heater in gas or electric. Every time you arrive bring a roast or turkey that’s already prepared. Throw the meat in the oven. The extra heat from the oven will heat up the place quickly. The smell of food will make it feel warmer too.

Also I get the feeling your wood stove is undersized

 

[PCustoms]

Kinda confused how it can be very remote and still have electricity?

Also I get the feeling your wood stove is undersized

Same thoughts here.

If this is grid tied OK burn some electrons. If he is hauling in fuel for a Genny or has a solar setup I'd rethink the electric heat.

And I would just get a bigger woodstove. A second or 3rd heat source is just increasing overall BTU.

 

[aaronmn]

Same thoughts here.

If this is grid tied OK burn some electrons. If he is hauling in fuel for a Genny or has a solar setup I'd rethink the electric heat.

And I would just get a bigger woodstove. A second or 3rd heat source is just increasing overall BTU.

Grid tied. It is a fishing camp.

 

[aaronmn]

Kinda confused how it can be very remote and still have electricity? It’s going to take the same amount of btus to heat the place up from ambient temperature to 70* no matter which way you decide. Sounds like it’s a hunting cabin. In that case. Install a small supplement heater in gas or electric. Every time you arrive bring a roast or turkey that’s already prepared. Throw the meat in the oven. The extra heat from the oven will heat up the place quickly. The smell of food will make it feel warmer too.

Also I get the feeling your wood stove is undersized

Will definitely double check the wood stove sizing.

 

[aaronmn]

It looks as though the wood stove is 75,000 BTU, or 1,800 sq ft.

 

[chrispyny]

I had to log in to post to this thread. To me, again to me, it’s OBVIOUS the wood stove is too small. I would get a wood stove DOUBLE the size you have now.
One other possibility, if general access is available, is coal. a friend had a small coal stove and a LARGE shop and that coal stove would chase us out of there in the coldest winters. We are in upstate ny.

 

[Jackfre]

On the LP situation, discuss it with local LP suppliers. If access is the issue, you negotiate a larger tank and have a 100# or two for back-up. If you are running it for heat, they want your business. The Rinnai has features that are attractive for remote applications. It will restat after a power failure and not loose its settings. The clock will be off the amount of time power is off but the built in programmable stat will hold. Also the standard low temp on the stat is about 55*, but it has a feature that allows you to set it as low as 38* and up in 2* increments. They are incredibly durable. I just got a pm from a fellow asking for info to replace his 25 yr old predecessor to the 38. “It’s still running but after 25 years…”

 

[chrispyny]

If the clock is off while the power is out, i suggest an uninteruptable power supply. Dunno if the unit will function on it dor long but its an option.

 

[greenskeeper]

Find an oil furnace that someone is giving away because they switched to gas. Then when you head up there throw 5 or 10 gallons of fuel oil on the back of the snowmobile. Should be enough to heat the place up until the wood stove can maintain heat.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Find an oil furnace that someone is giving away because they switched to gas. Then when you head up there throw 5 or 10 gallons of fuel oil on the back of the snowmobile. Should be enough to heat the place up until the wood stove can maintain heat.

I think electric will be cheaper! 75k-ish wood stove ain't no joke but that takes 30-45 min to get going and heat itself up, before it's contributing much to the frozen building.

radiant electric will take the perceived chill off, is cheap to purchase and install, and doesn't require a new fuel to be brought to the property. seems like a winner to me.

 

[472scout]

Like others have said you don't have the right wood stove. A large stove will heat that space in no time.

 

[finn]

Like others have said you don't have the right wood stove. A large stove will heat that space in no time.

Yes and no. The wood stove heats up the area immediately around it, but coming from a completely unheated state at maybe ten degrees F, there is a tremendous mass to bring to temperature, and wood heat circulation in a multi room cabin is notoriously poor, even with fans.

Adding electric resistance heat made a tremendous improvement at our place in the warm up process. And yes, once the structure and contents are up to temperature, the stove will roast you out, with no supplemental electric heat.

jumping into bed after arriving in the winter was a terrifying event before we added the radiators. Once the place was warmed up they were for the most part unused, except in the bedroom and bathrooms where the wood stove heat didn’t circulate. The upstairs loft and bedroom rarely needed supplemental heat, since the warm air from the stove had no issues getting up there, so they came to temp quite quickly.

If the place is used often in the winter, oil or propane may be worth the hassle of schlepping fuel there, but I certainly wouldn’t do it since electric is always there, albeit expensive for full time heat. Part time, the cost is negligible compared to taxes and maintenance.

 

[finn]

I can't remember the size of the stove off-hand, but when I was researching it this past spring, it seemed to be fine size wise.

I would turn the electric on when I get there. No wifi yet. Degrees is in F.

I can't drive there. Snowmobile in the winter, and boat in the summer.

The height is for the loft on the second floor. Open to the ceiling in the front half

There are

I love it! Thank you! The radiant heat is obviously enough to keep you happy?

Staple up radiant isn’t a perfect solution. Response time is poor in the shoulder season, with warm sunny days and a lot of solar in the day, but cold nights. We find it more comfortable to use electric heat pumps then.

In the winter, the warm floors are nice until the ambient temp drops to -10 to -20. Then, the heat loss with the glass walls and 16’ ceiling are more than the pex can transfer through the floor. We use the wood stove then, and sometimes the electric baseboard heaters that we left in.

More recently, we just go to Az and come back in the spring when the snow is mostly gone.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Yes and no. The wood stove heats up the area immediately around it, but coming from a completely unheated state at maybe ten degrees F, there is a tremendous mass to bring to temperature, and wood heat circulation in a multi room cabin is notoriously poor, even with fans.

Adding electric resistance heat made a tremendous improvement at our place in the warm up process. And yes, once the structure and contents are up to temperature, the stove will roast you out, with no supplemental electric heat.

jumping into bed after arriving in the winter was a terrifying event before we added the radiators. Once the place was warmed up they were for the most part unused, except in the bedroom and bathrooms where the wood stove heat didn’t circulate. The upstairs loft and bedroom rarely needed supplemental heat, since the warm air from the stove had no issues getting up there, so they came to temp quite quickly.

If the place is used often in the winter, oil or propane may be worth the hassle of schlepping fuel there, but I certainly wouldn’t do it since electric is always there, albeit expensive for full time heat. Part time, the cost is negligible compared to taxes and maintenance.

if you want cheap heat, a hyperheat mini split is probably the thing to do. but that has a long payback. if all the heat is for is taking the chill off when you walk in the door, then ROI will be really long for anything efficient, and probably not exist ever for any fuel you have to truck in yourself.

 

[472scout]

Yes and no. The wood stove heats up the area immediately around it, but coming from a completely unheated state at maybe ten degrees F, there is a tremendous mass to bring to temperature, and wood heat circulation in a multi room cabin is notoriously poor, even with fans.

Adding electric resistance heat made a tremendous improvement at our place in the warm up process. And yes, once the structure and contents are up to temperature, the stove will roast you out, with no supplemental electric heat.

jumping into bed after arriving in the winter was a terrifying event before we added the radiators. Once the place was warmed up they were for the most part unused, except in the bedroom and bathrooms where the wood stove heat didn’t circulate. The upstairs loft and bedroom rarely needed supplemental heat, since the warm air from the stove had no issues getting up there, so they came to temp quite quickly.

If the place is used often in the winter, oil or propane may be worth the hassle of schlepping fuel there, but I certainly wouldn’t do it since electric is always there, albeit expensive for full time heat. Part time, the cost is negligible compared to taxes and maintenance.

How much wood does yours hold and what do you have for a blower?

 

[aaronmn]

@472scout I'm not sure on how to measure the mass, but it isn't an absurd amount of wood. There is a two or three speed blower on stove

@u3b3rg33k that makes sense.

@finn your paragraph below makes sense. That seems to mirror what other locals are saying also. Electric heat is fine, until it becomes a full time residence or full time heating situation. Then, propane or similar seems to be desired.

"If the place is used often in the winter, oil or propane may be worth the hassle of schlepping fuel there, but I certainly wouldn’t do it since electric is always there, albeit expensive for full time heat. Part time, the cost is negligible compared to taxes and maintenance."