Shop Light vs standard lights

[CTDan]

I was originally going to use a couple of 4' 3600 lumen shop lights in the garage. Two of these will set me back $80-$100. On the other hand, a box of four 1600 lumen LED bulbs currently run $8 at Costco. Once you add the ceramic bases, I might spend $15-20 total to light my garage for roughly the same number of lumens.

Is there a reason I should spend the extra $60-80 to light the garage with shop lights?

Thanks!

Dan

 

[Platonic Solid]

Need size and purpose of space being lit. If you only want enough light to see where you’re going and not trip over the dog then the screw base bulbs are fine.

 

[tab2]

This thread is old and lost pictures from photobucket but may get the wheels turning for you.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38658

 

[PoorOwner]

the lumens are going out the side on the light bulb so you are going to have a little different effect, plus the colors are totally different on the shop lights. The shop lights is a strip of LEDs pointing down and through a light diffuser. They mostly project downwards which is usually most important for shop use.

 

[CTDan]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to go the less expensive route for now, but wire the lights so I can make an easier conversion if I choose to switch to shop lights.

Dan

 

[My Old Tools]

The 4' LED shop lights from Costco are only $25 for 4700 lumens.

 

[ssdave]

The 4' LED shop lights from Costco are only $25 for 4700 lumens.

All I can find is the 3700 lumen lights for $30, do they have others also?

https://www.costco.com/Feit-Electric-4%E2%80%99-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain%2c-2-pack.product.100284402.html

 

[My Old Tools]

3700 is probably right. They are on sale periodically. I bought two for $39 with $5 shipping recently. In store price was $24.99 last time I looked. I have had 16 of them running in my shop for a couple of years with no failures. Buying for the new shop now.

 

[American Locomotive]

Check your local habitat for humanity. They have lights almost identical to the CostCo lights for $15.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Just to keep everything in perspective, here is a fluorescent shop light for $20.70 includes lamps. Expected bulb output = 5000 Lumens @ 56 Watts (89 Lumens per Watt). Expected lamp life = 30,000 hrs. Cost of replacement lamps = $2.

These cheap LED shop lights are no more efficient than today's cheap fluorescent shop lights, but they are more expensive and provide less light per fixture.

 

[Showkey]

This is from a post almost two years old now comparing run of the mill T8 big box bulbs with LED drop in bulbs. The LED have dropped in price since more 50% since the test.

"Clarification and more info...
The T8 are about 6 months old.
They were on for 5 minutes when the LUX reading was taken.
The LED draw .34 amps at 124.2 volts.
T8 draw .60 amps at 124.2 volts
The LUX values are exactly the same as measure prior. The meter is 77" from the bulbs and 16" left of the center of the mixture. Moving the meter centered below the LED increased LUx to 672, T8 not measured in the center.

44% less power and 30 % more LUX output ..........when the price drops this might be a no Clarification and more info...
The T8 are about 6 months old.
They were on for 5 minutes when the LUX reading was taken.
The LED draw .34 amps at 124.2 volts.
T8 draw .60 amps at 124.2 volts
The LUX values are exactly the same as measure prior. The meter is 77" from the bulbs and 16" left of the center of the mixture. Moving the meter centered below the LED increased LUx to 672, T8 not measured in the center.

44% less power and 30 % more LUX output ..........when the price drops this might be a no brainier ....IF ......the life span is what they say ???????"

Since that post I have switched the shop from T8 and CFL to the $19-$24 on sale Costco LED fixtures.

 

[Platonic Solid]

The Costco/Feit fixture that ssdave linked to above states: 3700 Lumens 42 Watts = 88 Lumens per Watt. That's horrible efficiency for an LED strip light fixture.

You're better off with the Diva Light retrofit strip light @ $32, 4400 Lumens, 33 Watts, 130 L/W.
Plus you can change the lamps rather than trashing the whole fixture in the future.

 

[My Old Tools]

Just to keep everything in perspective, here is a fluorescent shop light for $20.70 includes lamps. Expected bulb output = 5000 Lumens @ 56 Watts (89 Lumens per Watt). Expected lamp life = 30,000 hrs. Cost of replacement lamps = $2.

These cheap LED shop lights are no more efficient than today's cheap fluorescent shop lights, but they are more expensive and provide less light per fixture.

Try one and you'll see you are dead wrong. They put all of their light downward instead of a 360 degree circle. They out shine the flourescents by a large margin in actual use, and they start instantly in cold weather.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Try one and you'll see you are dead wrong. They put all of their light downward instead of a 360 degree circle. They out shine the flourescents by a large margin in actual use, and they start instantly in cold weather.

My statement is accurate and I agree with you. I'm well aware of the fluorescent downfalls which is why I recommend LEDs over fluorescents. However, the shop lights linked above are truly the least efficient LED strip light I've ever seen. If you insist on cheapo shop lights, at least find something with over 100 lumens per watt. I don't get it. So many spend thousands of dollars building their dream space, then totally cheap out on lighting - one of the most important tools in the shop - as if it was some kind of inconvenient afterthought.

 

[PoorOwner]

I don't get it. They are definitely brighter than any 4 foot fluorescent and use less watts. They are alot quieter and does not flicker or need warm up when cold. . That's a criteria to purchase for most of us. Yes it may not be cutting edge LED powered by Cree , Philips or whatever. Can you suggest the better LED shop lights ? Let's see the purchase price and we can decide if the up front cost is worth it.

 

[Shiftless]

My statement is accurate and I agree with you. I'm well aware of the fluorescent downfalls which is why I recommend LEDs over fluorescents. However, the shop lights linked above are truly the least efficient LED strip light I've ever seen. If you insist on cheapo shop lights, at least find something with over 100 lumens per watt. I don't get it. So many spend thousands of dollars building their dream space, then totally cheap out on lighting - one of the most important tools in the shop - as if it was some kind of inconvenient afterthought.

to what Platonic Solid said. He knows what he is talking about. I especially agree with wondering about the fellows who spend huge $$$$ on their spaces, obsess over tiny details and almost completely ignore good lighting design.

 

[Platonic Solid]

In order to achieve this low price and pathetic efficiency they're using fewer LEDs and running them at their max design output. This means you get more heat causing the LED to degrade faster. When the LEDs degrade they get dimmer, very similar to what happens with fluorescent bulbs. I did a quick search for LED shop lights and I don't see anything I would recommend above the retrofit bulb and housing on page 1 of the best light fixture ever thread. It seems almost universal that the term "LED Shop Light" is synonymous with very poor efficiency. Lithonia makes one that’s even worse (and cheaper $20)(linked) than the Feit, both provide a frosted lens so you’re not being accosted by the sharp point light source of individual LEDs. The frosted lens does reduce efficiency, but well worth it in my opinion to reduce eye strain.

The frosted lens also evens out light distribution. This Honeywell shop light (linked) has a much more respectable efficiency of 107 L/W, (and the independent laboratory certifications to prove it)(linked) but I do not see a frosted lens option. You can see the result of bare LEDs on the back wall in this customer review picture:

 

[Showkey]

The FEIT shop light provides frosted lens.......the Sams shop light sold under several names ( Honeywell, Lights of America) does NOT have a frosted lens and has slightly higher lumens as the reward for glare and hot spots.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Got it. So both the Feit and Lithonia have a frosted lens (good), thus it comes down to lumens per dollar since they both **** with respect to efficiency:
Feit = 3700 Lm, 42W, 88 L/W $30? = 123 Lm/$1
Lithonia = 3000 Lm, 36W, 83 L/W $20 = $150 Lm/$1
Since you'd need more Lithonia fixtures (and they're slightly less efficient) to provide the same light output I'd say they are both of equal value. There's no available photometric data for either one so I have to assume the light distribution is equivalent.

For comparison, here is the data for the Diva Lite retrofit LED bulb fixture:
Diva Lite = 4400 Lm, 33W, 133 L/W $32 = 137 Lm/$1

The power required to run 2 Feit fixtures (84W) yielding 7400 Lumens could almost power 3 Diva Lite fixtures (99W) yielding 13200 Lumens.

 

[Showkey]

Many GJ guys who like the Costco FEIT LED were purchased at $19- $24. $30 is the full retail.

So back to reality of the plain old Menards T8 shoplight that sells $29.88 with no bulbs

T8 Produced at bench top height a measured LUX of 593 with 64 watts

The FEIT measured LUX 603 42 watts

Yes......... many are in GJ are in the budget shoplight fixture market........ good or bad........It remains to be seen on the FEIT LED life but they have a good warranty with Costco full replacement no questions asked. To be kind we all have had T8 bulbs and ballast failures on regular schedule.

The FEIT drop in LED replacement for T8 are 17 watts 1700 lumens but still run $10 per bulb.

 

[Platonic Solid]

It's hard to push energy efficiency when everyone's fixture quantity, electric rates and daily usage is different. What's a no-brainer to me, with CT electric rates at $0.18/kWh, may be insignificant to those in cheaper markets like WI ($0.11/kWh.) and TX ($0.09/kWh)

 

[Dragfluid]

to what Platonic Solid said. He knows what he is talking about. I especially agree with wondering about the fellows who spend huge $$$$ on their spaces, obsess over tiny details and almost completely ignore good lighting design.

What he said.

 

[Dragfluid]

In order to achieve this low price and pathetic efficiency they're using fewer LEDs and running them at their max design output. This means you get more heat causing the LED to degrade faster. When the LEDs degrade they get dimmer, very similar to what happens with fluorescent bulbs. I did a quick search for LED shop lights and I don't see anything I would recommend above the retrofit bulb and housing on page 1 of the best light fixture ever thread. It seems almost universal that the term "LED Shop Light" is synonymous with very poor efficiency. Lithonia makes one that’s even worse (and cheaper $20)(linked) than the Feit, both provide a frosted lens so you’re not being accosted by the sharp point light source of individual LEDs. The frosted lens does reduce efficiency, but well worth it in my opinion to reduce eye strain.

The frosted lens also evens out light distribution. This Honeywell shop light (linked) has a much more respectable efficiency of 107 L/W, (and the independent laboratory certifications to prove it)(linked) but I do not see a frosted lens option. You can see the result of bare LEDs on the back wall in this customer review picture:

Platonic, the Diva frosted tubes won't have that effect shown on the back wall, correct?

 

[Bert_]

Try one and you'll see you are dead wrong. They put all of their light downward instead of a 360 degree circle. They out shine the flourescents by a large margin in actual use, and they start instantly in cold weather.

Most decent reflectors are 90+% efficient at redirecting light.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Try one and you'll see you are dead wrong. They put all of their light downward instead of a 360 degree circle. They out shine the flourescents by a large margin in actual use, and they start instantly in cold weather.

Not the ones from Costco. Feit is some of the biggest **** on the market. Case in point, recently Costco had the Feit 2 pack 4' T8 32W direct replacement LED bulbs on sale, so I figured I'd bring them home and try them again to see if things have gotten better. I was not disappointed. Still ****. Barely lit the room enough to find the light switch to turn them off and yank 'em back out of the fixture...

Tommy

 

[Showkey]

Not the ones from Costco. Feit is some of the biggest **** on the market. Case in point, recently Costco had the Feit 2 pack 4' T8 32W direct replacement LED bulbs on sale, so I figured I'd bring them home and try them again to see if things have gotten better. I was not disappointed. Still ****. Barely lit the room enough to find the light switch to turn them off and yank 'em back out of the fixture...

Tommy

That was not my experience:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302649

Drop FEIT bulbs actual Measure results:

"44% less power and 30 % more LUX output ..........when the price drops this might be a no brainier ...."

Two years later those FEIT drop in bulbs are still inservice and are cycled on off on over 30 time per day.

I also have a few of the FEIT drop bulbs in shop lights where the Sylvania drop in LED will not work. Their specs (FEIT) are decent with 17 watt 1700 lumens. Just wish they were lower price.

Not to mention old tools was not talking about drop bulbs.....if that matters.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic, the Diva frosted tubes won't have that effect shown on the back wall, correct?

Correct, the frosted lens diffuses the hot spots which evens out the light distribution.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

That was not my experience:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302649

Drop FEIT bulbs actual Measure results:

"44% less power and 30 % more LUX output ..........when the price drops this might be a no brainier ...."

Two years later those FEIT drop in bulbs are still inservice and are cycled on off on over 30 time per day.

I also have a few of the FEIT drop bulbs in shop lights where the Sylvania drop in LED will not work. Their specs (FEIT) are decent with 17 watt 1700 lumens. Just wish they were lower price.

Not to mention old tools was not talking about drop bulbs.....if that matters.

Well, maybe all the dozens of times I've had to toss them because someone tried them at work and they died in a few months and the 2 boxes of brand new ones I just tried that wouldn't even light were just a bum batch.

Price is not an issue at $17.00 for a two pack...

I'm glad they're working for you. I'll just stay away for a while and maybe try them again in a while because every single one of my experiences with every one of their LED products has been bad.

Tommy

 

[cybrdyke]

It's no secret that Feit is the cellar dweller of the lighting industry. Their stuff is engineered to a price point, not to a quality point. No company in the lighting industry has had so many issues with UL, with patent infringement lawsuits, with false advertising as Feit. There is only one reason to buy Feit. Price.
That said, there are plenty of satisfied customers out there. Sometimes, even crappy products can work well enough for a customer who has low expectations. At some of these really low prices, some customers consider these products disposable. If they last a few years...great.
It's OK to use the low end products if they meet your needs. Hell, Walmart lives by that credo.
CD

 

[Showkey]

I think FEIT has cleaned up their act in the last five years........most likely Costco had something to do with that. There have several articles in the biz mags on this topic. Costco does not tolerate high come backs or warranty expense.

As far as bottom of the barrel Lights of America and the other names it's sold under might be holding up the floor. Then there are the true no name brands that are on eBay and Amazon and or direct ship from far off lands ............ those often are the true bottom of the barrel with no warranty or listing and or might have fake listing and certificates.

 

[My Old Tools]

to what Platonic Solid said. He knows what he is talking about. I especially agree with wondering about the fellows who spend huge $$$$ on their spaces, obsess over tiny details and almost completely ignore good lighting design.

Because they work, work well, and have for over 3 years with no failures, are brighter than the easy alternative fluorescents, and they were cheap enough to make sense. Anything else?

 

[My Old Tools]

Not the ones from Costco. Feit is some of the biggest **** on the market. Case in point, recently Costco had the Feit 2 pack 4' T8 32W direct replacement LED bulbs on sale, so I figured I'd bring them home and try them again to see if things have gotten better. I was not disappointed. Still ****. Barely lit the room enough to find the light switch to turn them off and yank 'em back out of the fixture...

Tommy

I have no idea about the bulbs you used, but the 4' LED shop fixtures have worked for me for 3 years with no failures and I love the light they produce. Each to his own. If one fails, Costco will stand behind it.

 

[My Old Tools]

Got it. So both the Feit and Lithonia have a frosted lens (good), thus it comes down to lumens per dollar since they both **** with respect to efficiency:
Feit = 3700 Lm, 42W, 88 L/W $30? = 123 Lm/$1
Lithonia = 3000 Lm, 36W, 83 L/W $20 = $150 Lm/$1
Since you'd need more Lithonia fixtures (and they're slightly less efficient) to provide the same light output I'd say they are both of equal value. There's no available photometric data for either one so I have to assume the light distribution is equivalent.

For comparison, here is the data for the Diva Lite retrofit LED bulb fixture:
Diva Lite = 4400 Lm, 33W, 133 L/W $32 = 137 Lm/$1

The power required to run 2 Feit fixtures (84W) yielding 7400 Lumens could almost power 3 Diva Lite fixtures (99W) yielding 13200 Lumens.

Except the Feit lights are commonly available for $19.99 to $24.99 these days.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Except the Feit lights are commonly available for $19.99 to $24.99 these days.

Yeah, Showkey mentioned that. That's why I put the "?" there cause I could only find the 2 pack online for $60.Thus:

Feit = 3700 Lm, 42W, 88 L/W $30 = 123 Lm/$1
Feit = 3700 Lm, 42W, 88 L/W $25 = 148 Lm/$1
Feit = 3700 Lm, 42W, 88 L/W $20 = 185 Lm/$1

I'll take a stab at energy usage cost, by making lots of generalizations and assumptions, so don't torch me:
Assumptions: 3 hrs/day usage with 20 fixtures

National average price of electricity = $0.10/kWh (linked source)

Feit Totals = 74,000 Lm, 840W = $0.084/hr = $0.252/day = $7.56/mth = $90.72/yr
Diva Lite = 88,000 Lm, 660W = $0.066/hr = $0.198/day = $5.94/mth = $71.28/yr (Annual savings over Feit = $19.44)
If I increase the number of Feit fixtures to 24, to equal Diva Light lumen output then:
Feit Totals = 88,800 Lm, 1008W = $0.101/hr = $0.302/day = $9.07/mth = $108.86/yr (Annual cost increase over Diva Light = $37.58)
If you payed $20 per Feit fixture at Qty.24 = $480
vs
If you paid $32 per Diva Light fixture at Qty.20 = $640 ($160 more than Feit)
It would take $160/$37.58 = 51 months (4.25 yrs) to make back the extra $160 paid for the Diva Light.
It would take $640/$37.58 = 17 yrs for the Diva Light savings to pay off the entire purchase price.

Now since I live in tax me to death CT, I'll do it for my rate of $0.18/kWh

Feit Totals = 74,000 Lm, 840W = $0.151/hr = $0.454/day = $13.61/mth = $163.30/yr
Diva Lite = 88,000 Lm, 660W = $0.119/hr = $0.356/day = $10.69/mth = $128.30/yr (Annual savings over Feit = $35.00)
If I increase the number of Feit fixtures to 24, to equal Diva Light lumen output then:
Feit Totals = 88,800 Lm, 1008W = $0.181/hr = $0.544/day = $16.33/mth = $195.96/yr (Annual cost increase over Diva Light = $67.66)
If you payed $20 per Feit fixture at Qty.24 = $480
vs
If you paid $32 per Diva Light fixture at Qty.20 = $640 ($160 more than Feit)
It would take $160/$67.66 = 28 months (2.36 yrs) to make back the extra $160 paid for the Diva Light.
It would take $640/$67.66 = 9.46 yrs for the Diva Light savings to pay off the entire purchase price.
.

 

[lakeroadster]

I was originally going to use a couple of 4' 3600 lumen shop lights in the garage. Two of these will set me back $80-$100. On the other hand, a box of four 1600 lumen LED bulbs currently run $8 at Costco. Once you add the ceramic bases, I might spend $15-20 total to light my garage for roughly the same number of lumens.

Is there a reason I should spend the extra $60-80 to light the garage with shop lights?

Thanks!

Dan

I am using 1600 lumen edison base LED's in my shop instead of 4' fixtures.. they are working out well.

 

[Showkey]

I am using 1600 lumen edison base LED's in my shop instead of 4' fixtures.. they are working out well.

Just plain Jane bulbs ? How many ?
It's interesting once your cross over to high output LED edison bulbs 2000 lumens the price goes way up. Ouch

I used large CFLs 3200-5000 lumen with shades for a few years. It was ok, but tubes were an improvement.