Shop wiring

[jerseywild]

I bought a house in Washington this year and it came with a 30x36 shop. The feeder wire is only 10 gauge wire so I would like to upgrade it to 6 gauge. The sub panel in the garage does not have grounding rods. There is a conduit stub out the house and shop but no conduit so I will have to trench 72 feet from the house to the shop. I am also added more outlets both 110 and 220. I plan on using the old 10 gauge inside for the 220 outlets. I will add some pics later.

My questions are as follows -
Does the sub panel in the shop require grounding rods at the shop?
Can I use the UF wire inside the shop?
The wires that are there now run up the groove in the metal siding, is this legal (code) to do.
I keep reading that the outlets need to be ground fault, is it better to use a ground fault breaker or the outlets?
I have more questions but typing on the phone *****!
Thanks in advance, John

 

[pattenp]

Earth grounding is required at outbuildings. The UF can be used inside. Not to sure about the wire in the groove of the siding without seeing it. GFCI breaker is okay but the outlet GFCIs are cheaper. Which one being better depends on your setup.

 

[jerseywild]

There was osb on the lower part of the wall here that I removed to see what I had. Here are some pics.
Ok I guess it's been awhile since I added photos, stand by

 

[jerseywild]

I removed osb that was on the lower section of the wall here.

 

[jerseywild]

The conduit is only stubs to the outside, 2 feet deep. The 14 gauge wire is not connected to anything, just a small coil in the basement.

The second conduit is also just a stub which has a phone cable in it, I don't even use a land line.

 

[jerseywild]

This is the 10 gauge wire from the house

 

[madosta]

This is the 10 gauge wire from the house

It blows my mind when people run the cheapest wire. I guess whatever you can afford. 6ga would be a nice addition for you. It seems that wiring through the steel panel groove is risky. I can't tell if it's "code" or not, but think about how it could be damaged as it is.

 

[madosta]

I removed osb that was on the lower section of the wall here.

I think those wire nuts need to be in a jbox too. What's the 220v circuit for? Welder plug?

 

[pattenp]

The wiring is a mess. It should be run along the side of the framing members and supported/stapled every 4 feet and at least within 12 inches of boxes. And as said by madosta the wire splice needs to be in a box. I can't tell for sure from the picture but it looks like some of the NM entering the panel is not secured with the proper NM clamps.

 

[jerseywild]

Yeah, I wasn't too happy when I pulled the osb down. I wire nuts are for a light next to the door. One switch for the front outside light and on for the main set of lights and one for the bench lights.

The 220 line was for his air compressor. I am working on a wiring plan now.

 

[jerseywild]

Any other comments about the wiring running in the groove of the panel?

 

[Falcon67]

I personally would not. I'd run a piece of conduit or just travel the wires up the existing studs with staples. Doesn't have to be a full blown conduit run, but I'd rather not have then next to the sheeting and more protected. I have siding/OSB walls and made sure to keep all the runs in the middle of a vertical stud to reduce the chance of damage.

 

[jerseywild]

It's been a busy day. I called the permit department to check on the permit history. Here for electrical it is the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries. No permit on record, he checked from 1997 to 2008. I went to the building permit office and checked on the building permit which was as expected 1999. However the permit was never closed and no final inspection. She asked if I wanted her to check how to get this completed. I declined since it's the electrical that I am concerned about.

I picked up the electrical permit today at the L&I office, only $59.50 includes one inspection. Then on the way home I stopped at Home Depot to pick up a 1000' spool of 12/2wire, $289 plus tax. Thanks for the tips on other threads I will take the 250' roll back to the local hardware store. The price per foot is the same but having the wire come off without twisting is a big plus.

I will be asking many more questions as I move forward so thanks in advance.

 

[jerseywild]

Wow it's hard to believe how much stuff you can get into a garage in such a short time. I have the back wall cleared and I have a little to go on the side wall with the service panel.

Which brings me to my next question. What height would you suggest running the wires in the wall? The walls are 2X6 and a little over 13' tall.
Would you go with the gfi breaker to protect the circuit or just gfi on the first outlet of the circuit?
Which brand panel do you recommend?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Any other comments about the wiring running in the groove of the panel?

I sure the hell wouldn't do it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Smart move buying the spool over the roll of 250'. Not only is it cheaper per foot, it's easier to run (pull off the spool) and will be way neater.

If you're trenching and already have the conduit for the phone, I'd be throwing some TV cable and Cat5/6 in there too.

 

[pattenp]

.....
Which brings me to my next question. What height would you suggest running the wires in the wall? The walls are 2X6 and a little over 13' tall.
Would you go with the gfi breaker to protect the circuit or just gfi on the first outlet of the circuit?
Which brand panel do you recommend?

If you are insulating and covering the walls I'd put the wiring either high or low on the wall keeping it out of the zone where you may be mounting stuff on the walls.

I'd use the GFCI outlets, cheaper.

Square-D for the panel.

 

[Steevo]

When you hang your cool old metal gas station or oil signs on the outside, try to avoid running a screw into that place where wires run up the siding

 

[jerseywild]

I found this between the studs, I guess he was planning ahead in case he wanted to add more outlets. It is live!

 

[jerseywild]

Started on the back wall outlets. Can someone tell me how to make the photos larger and how come only one photo will show?

 

[madosta]

When you attach a picture, you can add multiple at that time (before clicking upload).

Larger pictures inline need to be hosted at an image hosting site and then

 

[Steevo]

Check this thread for a guide on putting pictures in your posts:
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13567

 

[Rickster55]

I'm not an electrician but my only comment is - YIKES!!!!

 

[jerseywild]

When you attach a picture, you can add multiple at that time (before clicking upload).

Larger pictures inline need to be hosted at an image hosting site and then http://www.imageurl.com/imageid=32232323[ /img][/QUOTE]

I did that and still only one photo came up. Might be because I am on my IPad?
I thought you could upload photos to garage journal and the use them in your post.

 

[jerseywild]

I picked up the first batch of 20 amp outlets today and more boxes. (They keep growing) I also picked up the new panel, it is a Square D 100 amp 20 circuit 20 space home line panel. I also picked up one 20 amp gfi breaker, I will check it out and make a final decision on the gfi breaker or gfi outlet.

I saw on another thread someone was looking for a strain relief drop cord so he could hang cords down. He said that they had them in his shop class, I have been looking for these because we also had them in our school shops. (70's-80's) so far no luck. I did like the idea with the twist lock but it has to meet code.

 

[madosta]

You'll probably have to look at a distributor for cord grips:

Something like this: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70092442 ?

 

[Norcal]

Look for Hubbell/Kellems support grips.

Here is a link to Grainger.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Cable-Support-6C097?Pid=search

 

[jerseywild]

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Thanks

 

[jerseywild]

http://www.kyledesigns.com/c=qvtrZW...Single-14-Inch-Round-Outlet-Cover-Plates.html

Can I wire a 110 outlet and a 220 outlet into the same double gang box? Has to be to code. I found a cover plate that would work but that doesn't mean it's to code.
Thanks

 

[jerseywild]

 

[Charles (in GA)]

http://www.kyledesigns.com/c=qvtrZW...Single-14-Inch-Round-Outlet-Cover-Plates.html

Can I wire a 110 outlet and a 220 outlet into the same double gang box? Has to be to code. I found a cover plate that would work but that doesn't mean it's to code.
Thanks

Yes you can. I think there must be more than 300 volt diff between circuits before they have to have a divider in the box or be in separate boxes.

Charles

 

[jerseywild]

It's time for an update. I took the 20 circ 20 space box back and picked up a 24 circ 24 space box. I removed the old panel today and I am in the process of installing the new panel and wiring the circuits in. I keep freaking out every time I cut the wire at the box, do I go right or do I go left, what if I cut the wire too short? I will post so pics tomorrow of the progress.

 

[Norcal]

It's time for an update. I took the 20 circ 20 space box back and picked up a 24 circ 24 space box. I removed the old panel today and I am in the process of installing the new panel and wiring the circuits in. I keep freaking out every time I cut the wire at the box, do I go right or do I go left, what if I cut the wire too short? I will post so pics tomorrow of the progress.

You went from a 20/20 space panel, to a 24/24 space, panel? For such a small upgrade why bother? Just my opinion.

 

[Motofixxer]

Might I suggest some outlets above 7ft to be accessible above most wall cabinets. You could also switch half of the outlet or random outlets. Then you can easily power your favorite neon sign with an off switch. Or you can plug in cord reels, stereo, tv, wall art or a nice light up pic of your umm...SO, yea that's it your SO.

While your wiring you can run some coax for tv, cat 5/6 for phone, cameras, security, data or all the other uses for it. You could even run 2 lines of cat6(recommended) to a high wall point to a tv for HDMI. I would suggest at least 4 cat 6 lines running to a tv location. 2 lines would enable hdmi and one could run sound out of tv back to a stereo. Then using HDMI baluns view anything from a computer etc.Also run some speaker wiring for ease of hooking up later.

Nothing cooler than being able to play some pandora tunes or from your private collection on a remote computer while working on something then show a buddy a cool vid, then watch an assembly type vid, or flip to your favorite tv show or game. All while listening to it from a capable stereo.

 

[bglad]

When you bought the house didn't your lawyer notice that there was no CO for the building. Did he have a permit to build the structure?

 

[GreyOwl]

You went from a 20/20 space panel, to a 24/24 space, panel? For such a small upgrade why bother? Just my opinion.

I guess you didn't read the complete post to know the 20 was bought to replace the original that was only 8 or 10. He just returned the 20 for the 24.

 

[jerseywild]

When you bought the house didn't your lawyer notice that there was no CO for the building. Did he have a permit to build the structure?

The house was built in 1988 and the shop was added in 1999. A permit was pulled to build the shop but was never closed, no permit for the electric.

I got a permit for the electric and I am just about finished inside but I still have to dig a trench to upgrade the 10 gauge feeder line.

Here is a pic of the shop.

 

[jerseywild]

Here is the back of the house, it's about 72' of trench 2' deep that I will have to put in.

 

[jerseywild]

The inspector made a surprise visit.

 

[Motofixxer]

Here is the back of the house, it's about 72' of trench 2' deep that I will have to put in.

A rented trencher will make quick work of that, I would suggest going down 3' or whatever the trencher will do. Deeper is better as far as that goes, in my opinion. Then you won't accidentally drive a stake into it or??? Could even drop a tracer wire down in there so you can "locate" it later. Take lots of pics of the trench just in case. Drop some 2" burial grade PVC in there for the power and then back fill a foot or so and drop at least 1" PVC for the Low Voltage stuff, or just do another trench.