shop wiring

[junkyardwarrior]

Got my shop built. Took about 8 years of saving money, but it's up. 30x40 metal exterior pole barn style. Need to put get the POCO to run service to the building so that I can finish it out. Building has been up for about 3 months now. People who built it were supposed to put up a meter socket and have that part done....but they didn't....all in the past now and I will have to do it myself.

Anyway I picked up a GE 200A (model TSMR2020CSCUFMG meter socket combination box. Will be underground service. Bear with me as I'm new to electrical installation; and I have zero help available other than the POCO who won't touch anything beyond the meter obviously.

Does it have to be mounted close to a doorway? I assume just mount it directly to the metal using the proper screws is the correct (per NEC) way to mount it?

Arkansas...Entergy (unfortunately) if that makes any difference.

 

[maynard9089]

The electrician that mounted mine used 2"x4" pieces to bring it out past the ribs on the metal. My electric service is National Grid and they require the meter be mounted no closer than 4' to the corner of the building. I was responsible for getting the underground from the road to the building. National grid made the connection at the pole and installed the meter into the panel.

 

[Aceman]

Most power companies have their service requirements manuals online in a pdf, that's where I'd start.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Most power companies have their service requirements manuals online in a pdf, that's where I'd start.

+1

Unless someone else on here has the same PoCo, then we cant help much with their requirements. However, we can help with electrical questions like type of wire etc!

 

[Rusty Bumper]

...and use exterior (ie: stainless) rated screws when you put it up. (Don't ask me how I know this)

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Don't use wood blocks as spacers, the rot and split and such. Don't use unistrut as it rusts and looks ugly. I spaced mine using galvanized ½ inch pipe connectors as spacers. The box has humps on the back at the bolt holes. I drilled the wall and on the inside I put a piece of 3/4 plywood with rounded corners and radius' edges to keep it from cutting into the insulation. Used ¼ hex head bolts all the way thru the electrical box, the spacers, the sheet metal, the plywood and fender washers and SELF LOCKING NUTS.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Now that I look at your combo panel, why are you putting all of your breakers on the outside?????? I know this is done out west on houses but it seems crazy to have the breakers outside. even in a closed panel, humidity is a problem, probably more so than inside a building, and then the access, running outside just to operate breakers, and then the hassle of running all of the wires from the panel inside. You certainly won't be using conduit with this panel!

There are lots of combo meter/mains on the market that have several breaker spots for external power items like generator inlets, A/C units, well pumps, etc. Put the remainder of your circuit breakers in a panel inside.

Panel needs to be mounted where the POCO can easily get underground power to it, and where it is convenient to have the wires enter the building inside. How far is the building from the pole? Is the POCO using smartmeters so that it doesn't have to be read by a person? need to check with the POCO to determine where it can and cannot be installed.

 

[bob_mp]

Now that I look at your combo panel, why are you putting all of your breakers on the outside?????? I know this is done out west on houses but it seems crazy to have the breakers outside. even in a closed panel, humidity is a problem, probably more so than inside a building, and then the access, running outside just to operate breakers, and then the hassle of running all of the wires from the panel inside. You certainly won't be using conduit with this panel!

This is good advice. I have a 400A service entrance. The meter/main breakers on the exterior wall of my shop. I put a 200A subpanel directly behind it and ran the feeders through a 2" conduit ******. If you go this way, it's worth the time to place both of them back to back and figure out where to put the hole. You have to work around meter height constraints, the location of the studs, breakers etc.

It took me a while to do the wiring. I would have been really inconvenient doing it from outside.

I made some cable clamps out of Delrin to keep the feeders tucked against one side of the panel and out of the way. This worked so well that I did a similar thing for the heavier 240 wiring.

Bob

 

[69gp]

This is good advice. I have a 400A service entrance. The meter/main breakers on the exterior wall of my shop. I put a 200A subpanel directly behind it and ran the feeders through a 2" conduit ******. If you go this way, it's worth the time to place both of them back to back and figure out where to put the hole. You have to work around meter height constraints, the location of the studs, breakers etc.

It took me a while to do the wiring. I would have been really inconvenient doing it from outside.

I made some cable clamps out of Delrin to keep the feeders tucked against one side of the panel and out of the way. This worked so well that I did a similar thing for the heavier 240 wiring.

Bob

Hi

Your panel look nice and neat. The only think I would offer is that you may want to remove the brackets that you made for holding the cables. I do some forensic investigations for an insurance company dealing with the electrical end. If its not listed it does not belong in there. The term listed when used in this fashion is mean to be is it approved for the application. in your case no.

If there is a fire and for some reason they can say that the bracket was somehow involved they could deny your claim. And its not hard for them to do that and drag your claim on for a long time before paying.


But on the good side check your private messages it could be very beneficial to you

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi

Your panel look nice and neat. The only think I would offer is that you may want to remove the brackets that you made for holding the cables. I do some forensic investigations for an insurance company dealing with the electrical end. If its not listed it does not belong in there. The term listed when used in this fashion is mean to be is it approved for the application. in your case no.

If there is a fire and for some reason they can say that the bracket was somehow involved they could deny your claim. And its not hard for them to do that and drag your claim on for a long time before paying.


But on the good side check your private messages it could be very beneficial to you

Thx for your input. Ive been telling people this for a while and most scoff and dont believe me. They say theyve never heard of an insurance company denying a claim because of the use of a non listed item...

 

[James-W]

Where I am the homeowner cannot get a permit to install a new service, the permit needs to be obtained from the city by a master electrician. Don't ask me why it is this way, it's just how they do it here. It is no doubt a local thing, nevertheless I would check to make sure you don't have a similar rule where you live.

I had to hire a master electrician to pull the permit and to sign off on the installation, although a friend and I did about 95 percent of the new service installation work. We mounted the meter base, we ran the mast up to the correct height and anchored it to the garage. We mounted the mast head and ran the wires down to the meter base. We mounted the breaker panel and we dug out a trench for the two ground rods and ran a ground wire into the garage going to the breaker panel.

The master electrician got the permit, ran the wires from the meter base into the breaker panel, pounded the ground rods in with a power driving tool, hooked up the ground wire, put in an outlet below the breaker panel, and wired up a light about the breaker panel. Then he informed the city inspector the installation was complete. The city inspector stopped by and checked it out, passed it, then he informed the power company that the new service was ready to be put in. A couple days later the power company stopped by and hooked it up.

 

[69gp]

Thx for your input. Ive been telling people this for a while and most scoff and dont believe me. They say theyve never heard of an insurance company denying a claim because of the use of a non listed item...

just sent a PM again

 

[bob_mp]

69gp brings up a very good point. I hadn't thought about this. My bad.

Bob

 

[Norcal]

If the panel had been turned 180 degrees, there would have been no need for the homemade clamps, less wire, cleaner installation. Unless there is a vertically mounted main breaker there is no "upside down" on the panel. A handle on a vertically mounted breaker has to be up when in the ON position.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Where I am the homeowner cannot get a permit to install a new service, the permit needs to be obtained from the city by a master electrician. Don't ask me why it is this way, it's just how they do it here. It is no doubt a local thing, nevertheless I would check to make sure you don't have a similar rule where you live.

I had to hire a master electrician to pull the permit and to sign off on the installation, although a friend and I did about 95 percent of the new service installation work. We mounted the meter base, we ran the mast up to the correct height and anchored it to the garage. We mounted the mast head and ran the wires down to the meter base. We mounted the breaker panel and we dug out a trench for the two ground rods and ran a ground wire into the garage going to the breaker panel.

The master electrician got the permit, ran the wires from the meter base into the breaker panel, pounded the ground rods in with a power driving tool, hooked up the ground wire, put in an outlet below the breaker panel, and wired up a light about the breaker panel. Then he informed the city inspector the installation was complete. The city inspector stopped by and checked it out, passed it, then he informed the power company that the new service was ready to be put in. A couple days later the power company stopped by and hooked it up.

Thats dumb. Glad i dont have to do that!

just sent a PM again

U sent me a PM? If so i didnt get it...

 

[69gp]

U sent me a PM? If so i didnt get it...[/QUOTE]

sent again

 

[Beemer533]

Don't use wood blocks as spacers, the rot and split and such. Don't use unistrut as it rusts and looks ugly. I spaced mine using galvanized ½ inch pipe connectors as spacers. The box has humps on the back at the bolt holes. I drilled the wall and on the inside I put a piece of 3/4 plywood with rounded corners and radius' edges to keep it from cutting into the insulation. Used ¼ hex head bolts all the way thru the electrical box, the spacers, the sheet metal, the plywood and fender washers and SELF LOCKING NUTS.

Very nice installation and I like your spacer method... But I have to ask, what is the difference between galvanized pipe and galvanized uni strut?

I'll usually spray the cut ends and use the black strut end caps for nice clean look..

Or use SS or AL strut...http://www.mcmaster.com/#strut-channel-systems/=ur4otx

Just curious.

 

[Bib Overalls]

I am in Jonesboro and we are currently doing a project in Lake City where where Entergy is the POCO.

If you are in my area I'd be happy to talk with you about my experiences with Entergy. Not a difficult bunch to work with as long as you follow their guidelines. They have field engineers and there is no cost to have one meet you on the site so you and he can agree on a plan.

I also suggest you go to this web page and look around. Lots of info.

http://www.entergy-arkansas.com/your_home/builder.aspx

They also have a commercial builder page and because you are talking shop you should check that out as well.

 

[junkyardwarrior]

Meter socket is up. I ended up using a Milbank meter socket only and mounted the panel on the inside of the wall, connected with 2" PVC conduit. I drove in two 5/8" x 8' ground rods and ran a #4 bare copper ground wire from the rods into the meter socket.


Met with one of the engineers about 3 weeks ago for a plan. They're going to trench and install the conduit and wire. I'd do it if I were 20 years younger and had more time/help. Trying to get someone on the phone other than the people we call out of state is like trying to pull teeth from an old hen. The Arkansas call center is gone so you have to call I think Louisiana and Mississippi at the 800 number, and they NEVER relay the call to an engineer. I had to literally stop a truck and get a number to call, and even then they don't show up when they say they will. Busy I guess. And so am I.

Do I need to run the ground wire into the panel, terminate it at the ground barl, or is it acceptable (by Entergy) to terminate it at the meter socket only? My house is terminated at the socket and no further grounding is done at the panel....other than the neutral bar is bonded to the can and jumpered to the ground bar.

 

[Aceman]

Do I need to run the ground wire into the panel, terminate it at the ground barl, or is it acceptable (by Entergy) to terminate it at the meter socket only? My house is terminated at the socket and no further grounding is done at the panel....other than the neutral bar is bonded to the can and jumpered to the ground bar.

Every utility is different. I've never landed it in the meter, I've only done it in the main panel. I didn't even realize it was allowed until I read about it on some electrical forums a while back.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Meter socket is up. I ended up using a Milbank meter socket only and mounted the panel on the inside of the wall, connected with 2" PVC conduit. I drove in two 5/8" x 8' ground rods and ran a #4 bare copper ground wire from the rods into the meter socket.


Met with one of the engineers about 3 weeks ago for a plan. They're going to trench and install the conduit and wire. I'd do it if I were 20 years younger and had more time/help. Trying to get someone on the phone other than the people we call out of state is like trying to pull teeth from an old hen. The Arkansas call center is gone so you have to call I think Louisiana and Mississippi at the 800 number, and they NEVER relay the call to an engineer. I had to literally stop a truck and get a number to call, and even then they don't show up when they say they will. Busy I guess. And so am I.

Do I need to run the ground wire into the panel, terminate it at the ground barl, or is it acceptable (by Entergy) to terminate it at the meter socket only? My house is terminated at the socket and no further grounding is done at the panel....other than the neutral bar is bonded to the can and jumpered to the ground bar.

Every utility is different. I've never landed it in the meter, I've only done it in the main panel. I didn't even realize it was allowed until I read about it on some electrical forums a while back.

same here. Have never landed a GEC in a meter pan as PoCos around here dont allow it....